Hi, this is Matthew Mercer and this is my last meal. Every person has exactly two things in common. We all gotta eat and we’re all gonna die. Today’s guest is the voice behind some of your favorite characters from animation and video games, and he is also the Chief Creative Officer for Critical Role whose new animated series The Mighty Nein is out now on Prime video. But his first true love was illustration because he started quite the small business in middle school. Matthew Mercer, welcome to the show. Hey, so happy to be here, man. Thank you for having me. Of course. Tell me about this little cottage industry you started in middle school, you were drawing comic book characters. We’re, we’re going right to it with this. On commission. No, I’m, I’m fascinated by the entrepreneurial spirit. So, yeah, like I, okay. Understood. Like, I, I, as a child, I loved to draw Uhhuh. I had a bunch of sketchbooks. It was very much kind of my, my, my youth’s main hobby was drawing and sketching. And I love comics and creatures and monsters and, uh, you also don’t have a lot of ways of making money when you’re a kid. Sure. So, uh, when I was in middle school, this is pre-internet in which, uh, adult materials were far more difficult to acquire. Mm-hmm. So, uh, there was a lot of interest from a lot of, uh, young, uh, kids that I went to school with to pay me, to draw them my opinion of what a naked body would look like. Now, when you say your opinion of what a naked body would look like, some would say there’s an objective fact of what they look like, but you just sort of had to make it up in your own mind. Uh, parts of it, yes. You know, being a young boy who also didn’t have access to any of these things, like I could, I could kind of glean the overall structure, but. Sure, sure. But when it came to details, I had to kind of, had to kind of. Fill in the gaps, if you will. Fill in the gaps, leave some of the gaps empty, try and figure out where the gaps were. Exactly. You know? Yeah. It was very much like everything from like, uh, Chun Li to Wolverine to like pretty much most of the X-Men. I drew a lot of characters naked. It was mostly X-Men, it sounds like. A lot of it, yeah. ’cause I mean, me and my friends were heavily into Marvel comics that time and, uh, both, you know, from across the whole gender spectrum really. So yeah, I learned a lot about anatomy through trial and error. That’s so beautiful. I can’t wait to see what Wolverine looks like down there. Uh, I think there were a few different interpretations. Is it retractable? Well, I would hope so. Otherwise he should get that looked at by a doctor. That’s a fair point. That’s a fair point. Yeah. Uh, well thank you so much for joining me on Last Meals. My pleasure. This is the general tone of the show. Welcome. I love it. No, wait, wait. Just, you know, to, to break the, uh, break it wide open right at the gate. Absolutely. Uh, have you thought about your last meal before? For, for me, like, when, when the opportunity came up, I was like, what is last meal? Is it just something that’s delicious? It’s like, no, what’s something that to me is almost like a culmination of memories attached to food. Yeah. You know. That’s beautiful. So that was kind of like where I was coming back, it’s like, what would I want to eat? And part of that process of eating it would kind of revisit important things from my life. Yeah, I think that’s like a real craftsman, storytellers way of approaching this, which is like obviously very befitting of your character and I really appreciate that. Yeah. I hope so. Did any of those memories that were brought up from the dishes you chose surprise you? Yeah, there were a lot of things I wrote down and then just got rid of them. ’cause I was like, ah, this is delicious. But it, it doesn’t have like a, a deep personal resonance. And so yeah, I ended up just kind of picking the ones that really kind of meant something to me. There are a couple in there that are just really delicious but have a little bit of, you know. Sure, sure, sure. A little bit of resonance. But yeah, I just kind of, I guess if you’re gonna have a last meal, you know, let it, let it bring you through your own journey in a way. Yeah. So kinda an auto, an autobiographical meal, I guess. No, I think not, I guess, I think exactly that. Yeah. That, that was, that was my inspiration. I, I can’t wait to eat your memories. I will quote you on that for a long time. What a wonder, what a wonderful, like antagonist line in a horror film. I can’t wait to eat your memories. And I would only want you to voice that character. You know, if you come around to it, I’ll give you co co-production credit. Perfect. Perfect. Well, at least let me PA uh, how often do you think about death in general? Not terribly often. It’s hard not to consider mortality as a mortal. Yeah. Um, you said as a mortal as if there was an opportunity for you to not be a mortal, as if you sort of chose that, you know. You know, it’s quitter talk if you give into that too early. That’s a good point. Uh, no, I, I, it’s, it’s interesting I’ve come in recent years to understand that I don’t think I fear death. Hmm. If anything, it’s what makes a lot of things beautiful. I don’t want it to happen sooner than I’m ready, of course. Mm-hmm. But like, I don’t have a lot of existential dread 3:00 AM in the darkness moments these days. I had those when I was younger a little bit, but I’ve, I’ve kind of come to terms with it a little bit. Do you think like, part of that is wisdom, like as you get older you sort of understand almost cosmically that death is really the only thing giving life context. Wi, wi wisdom could be a word for it. Uh, I, I could also very well be just, uh, ignorance could, it could be. Tired. Too tired. Yeah. Yeah. Have more energy you can think about death. Yeah. I don’t, I don’t have the bandwidth for, for death anymore. I, I, I think about it more in like the metaphysical context of trying to, trying to figure out what is beyond it from my standpoint, you know? Mm-hmm. I, it’s less about, it’s less about, I’m. I’m, I’m scared of the prospect of more like, what’s a fun theory that could be beyond this? Yeah. What’s another fun theory? What, you know, researching and I actually love researching and studying death rituals through history, through cultures and how much is unique and how much is shared and kind of through those shared spaces. Uh, there’s a lot of really fascinating philosophies that, um, I think are, are, are beautiful means of continuation from generation to generation. Uh, but also I have a love of physics, astrophysics, quantum physics. And the more you look into quantum physics, the weirder it gets to the point where it starts also kind of dispelling my fear of oblivion to a degree. I can’t wait to eat dumplings and get into it. You ready to eat? I’m so ready to eat. Let’s do it. All right, Matthew, for the first course of your final meal, we have a Caesar salad, classic romaine anchovy, egg yolk and Dijon dressing, fresh shaved parmesan and homemade croutons on top. And then we have the southern style chicken and dumplings. We have the biscuit dough on top of just like your classic chicken pot pie filling a little bit of rosemary and thyme in there. And then we have an old fashioned, this is actually made with, uh, over proof rye. This is my favorite way to do it. A little bit of angostura bitters. And then of course, fresh orange zest on there. I love it. Thank you. Cheers, man. My goodness. Oh, that’s delicious. God damn. Wait, what a way to wake up. About to say like, worst ways to start your day. Ugh. Can I dish you some dumplings? Please, please do. I’m so excited. Uh, tell me about the dumplings. How did this make it on the last meals venue? I come from a, a, a southern family, you know, a lot of family from the Carolinas, Georgia, Florida, which is where I originally grew up as a young kid. And chicken dumplings is just a classic kind of comfort meal, but it’s specifically comfort in my family. ’cause whenever I was sick as a kid, my mom would make me either chicken or rice or chicken and dumplings. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I was actually deciding between those two. It was just, I had this, like, this memory of feeling protected, of feeling warm, of recovering and being with family. And it made me think of my mom and was just very appreciative of that. But then years later when me and my, uh, my wife Marisha started dating, she’s from Kentucky, early into our relationship, wanted to cook and said, I’m gonna make you my esteemed chicken and dumplings. And it was one of those like, oh my God, I love you even more because you make one of the best Southern meals. And then her version was unique but close in, in, in the, the flavor and texture palette to what I grew up with. And so now it’s almost like booking in between my mom who raised me, and now my partner who shows that as a way of, uh, you know, sharing her love of culinary arts and cooking with me and friends as well. And so to me it, it just kind of felt like a good bookend of the mo the the woman who was most important in my younger part of my life and the woman who’s now most important in my life going forward. So I had that kind of personal significance and it’s just delicious. Man, that was, that was beautiful. And when you were sick as a child, your mother used to make you old fashioneds as well. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. The Southern way. Cure it with whiskey, cure it with the little put it on the gums, get him to stop crying. Exactly. You know, it’s, well it’s funny ’cause like I, you know, I didn’t drink until I was in my mid twenties or so my, uh, you know, with, with, with, and I, I think I’ve talked to a few things about my, my father who I love to death. He’s a wonderful person, but he’s had his, his challenges with alcohol and addiction and stuff like that. And so I, I. Um, he’s, he’s clean now for, for quite some time, but because that, I didn’t drink for a long time because I was afraid that I would kind of be subject to the same, you know, predilections. Yeah, of course. Um, it wasn’t until I started dating my, uh, my wife Marisha, but she’s from Kentucky and bourbon is a very big thing. And so, uh, she loved wine. She loved bourbon and, and whiskey and I didn’t really care for either. Yeah. And she went, we’re gonna change that. And so, uh, old fashioned was one of those strengths that kind of initially taught me like, oh, there’s so many different unique flavor profiles that compare with whiskey and bourbon that can completely change the mood and the feel and the taste of what you can enjoy whiskey for. And so the old fashioned has since become like a staple of my relaxation to like before getting on a plane or when I get home after a long day, at the end of the week. It’s gentle, it’s simple, and I, I I find it the comfort drink to match the comfort food. I, I was gonna say the, there seems to be like a real theme of comfort here and then of course a lot of it like centering around Marisha, which I think is really beautiful. Can we dig in, dig in, dig. Oh, please, please, please. I’m on you. This is your last meal. You go as crazy as you want to. Did you feel pressured to order a salad because you thought you should. To bring it back to the story, my dad made the most incredible Caesar salad growing up. There’s a lot of family stories here. I’m sorry, this is. No, this is perfect, I mean, especially seeing like why it’s important to you. This is awesome. My dad very much was like the, the culinary king of the kitchen. It would make like the tri-tip steaks and the grill master. And, uh, but the Caesar salad was something that he was re known for within our, not just our family circles, but eventually expanding friend circles. Dressing was so unique and delicious that friends would ask him to make batches to host his Caesar salad at their parties. Uh, when we first moved to LA we were a bunch of bumpkins out of Florida and we’d have people who would hear about his Caesar salad and be like, Hey, we’ll pay you to make a large batch and go, you know, prepare it at this big party where, up in the Hollywood Hills or somewhere. And people would comment like, this is the best Caesar I’ve ever had in my life, and. Is your dad Ken, of Ken’s Caesar salad dressing? He is not. Dammit. He is not. He is, uh, he is, he is a wonderful, uh, and I say this with absolute love, hippie ass musician, uh, in Hawaii. I love him so much. Um, but his Caesar salad to this day is, is such an incredible thing, uh, and has just touched many lives, myself included. I need to try your father’s Caesar salad dressing. Like I need to see what is, I wanna try and decode it. Has he told you the secret ingredient to it? Is, or is that gonna be a thing where like, he’s on his deathbed and it’s like some, my son. I’ve asked, and he is tried, but like I asked him, I said, could you write it down for the sake of like, you know, lineage and, and legacy? And he goes, it’s just kind of a vibes thing. I’m like, well, you did say that. Doesn’t hippie ass musician in, in Hawaii. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Um, but no, he’ll be in, he’ll be out here for the holidays, so maybe I’ll see if I can make an extra large batch and then I’ll chapter out, bring it by the studio. I would, I would genuinely, genuinely love that. I’m gonna note that I’m gonna, I’m gonna take you up on that. Um, dig into the dumplings. I don’t know if you believe in the butterfly effect, but there’s a world in which, if Bert Reynolds never exists, then you were never born. How does Bert Reynolds factor so much into your existence? Part of the reason we’re even here in LA is through that weird pipeline. I would probably, we actually get most of our guests via the Burt Reynolds pipeline. You’d be surprised how common it is. I mean, it’s a, it’s a strong pipeline. Um, and, and I’m thankful for it. No. Um, yeah, my, my grandmother met him many, many years ago. I think she was right working real estate in Florida, and he was like getting his Florida ranch set up in like the seventies and eighties. And, uh, he just liked her energy, I guess, like, and hired her on to begin, like assisting in parts of production. And so she went from just being a, being a, a, a Carolina woman with a, you know, strong motherly opinion. She’s been, you know, in, in many cases in her life, a, uh, a single mother, uh, through her six marriages. Damn. Um, she’s a badass. Damn man. She, she was a badass. And, um, so it was through her working through happenstance with Burt Reynolds, through that meeting to then become part of his production company and then was like a executive producer on his show Evening Shade back in the early nineties. And so she was like the cool grandma who lived, uh, out here in LA and had like a, a Corvette. Uh, and so we, we’d come out and visit her and then eventually she helped my mom get a script opportunity and then we all moved out to LA so that she could pursue writing as a career. And uh, so that was kind of, that was our impetus as a family when I was like seven, turning eight. Yeah. To come from Florida to escape Florida. ’cause you don’t move out of Florida, you escape Florida. That’s a fair point. Yeah. Yeah. Um, to come out to, to LA, so. I heard after Escape from New York and Escape from LA they tried to make escape from Florida, but they’re still shooting it. Yeah, I heard Russell’s just still there. He’s, he’s like, oh, I got to Tallahassee. I dunno where to go. It’s, it’s hard to get outta there. There’s also a tie in with Burt Reynolds to Dungeons and Dragons in your family. Campaign one of Critical Role, episode 105 and 106. Uhhuh, you played with a character, that your mom played with in the back of the Burt Reynolds Dinner Theater in Florida about 30 years prior. Correct. That’s crazy. How did that feel? So, yeah, so, so the pipeline from there was, Burt Reynolds at the time was working with my grandma. My grandma was then actually helping manage the Burt Reynolds Dinner Theater in, uh, Jupiter, Florida, which was this kind of major southeast destination for traveling theater at that time in the us. And my mom began working out there, uh, working under her mom. My dad, when he started dating my mom was helping do audio up in the audio booth, and they were all kind of, it was like a theater family at that point. Mm-hmm. One of the apprentices at the time was an amazing young actor, uh, named Darren DePaul, who, uh, befriended my, my parents at the time, worked with my grandma and played D&D at that theater back in the earlier days of it. Made his first D&D character there. Then he went off to pursue a career in New York for many years. Our lives scattered. I was, if I wasn’t an infant, I maybe not have been born yet when they were doing this. Um. Were you conceived that night? Probably. Look, Darren’s that powerful. I, I get it. He probably, like, whenever my parents went, like the two of you, it’s time. Uh, you hear that voice and I mean, I dropped my pants. I’m feeling something. That’s inappropriate. I’m sorry, Darren. I’m sorry, Darren. Darren, we haven’t met, but I, I’m not sorry at all. I, this is so good. So anyway, long story short, many, many years later, uh, I was working on a few voiceover projects here in LA with this amazing individual, this with charismatic, but sweet and lovely man, uh, in glasses and a vest. He dressed like a, like a, a a tax preparer from the seventies. Um, and we became friends and eventually through conversation he mentioned that he used to be at the, you know, apprentice at the Burt Reynolds Dinner Theater. And I was like, do you know Elaine? He’s like, yeah, why? I’m like, that’s my grandmother. And it was this weird moment of us being friends for, now years at this point. And then realizing our lives have been intertwined from be long before that. And then he got to play that same D&D character on Critical Role as kind of a continuation of that weird lineage. Burt Reynolds man, tying everything together. Yeah. The longest yard. Thanks, Burt. Smokey in the Bandit. I, I’ll, I’ll Burt’s a complicated. Burt is a complicated man. RIP to Burt Reynolds. Indeed. But for, for all the great things you may have done intentionally or not in your life, thank you for at least giving my grandma the opportunity to be cool. Um, what was your first interaction with Dungeons and Dragons? I know your mom bought the monster manual from a garage sale, but had you actually played the game at that point at all, or you were just drawing the characters naked? No, I, I didn’t have the cool friends that wanted D&D monsters naked yet. You know, uh, that would, that’s that. Well, the internet took, that hadn’t, that hadn’t picked up as some genre. You got the dms that I’ve sent you then? Okay. Yeah. No. And I gimme at least till end December to finish the commissions. I wait for quality, uh, but. No, I hadn’t played, I, I’d never had the opportunity. I didn’t, I’d heard about it, like as a, as a young, young kid, um, but I didn’t really understand what it was. I was really deeply into mythology and cryptozoology and just like weird paranormal stuff. I had like the old time life, like black leather bound, you know, mysteries of the unknown books. Like, I think Ghostbusters really as a kid kicked off my love of the paranormal and strange stuff. Mm-hmm. And then mythology led into reading about creatures and monsters I loved to draw in my sketchbook, so I’d always heard about D&D but never had the opportunity to engage with it really. And so my, my mom knew what I loved, uh, as far as like video games and creatures and myth. And found this book for me at a garage sale. And once again, I still didn’t have any friends to play with. This is a theme in my younger years. But I loved reading it, like all the lore around these creatures, and it was just kind of an inspiring, uh, exercise and, and, and imagination as an indoor kid that loved to read. Yeah. Um, so it wasn’t until high school that I had the chance to actually play with people. So for many years, yeah. I was just kind of reading through the book and enjoying it in my imagination. Just stashing up knowledge. Kind of, yeah. Unintentionally. Sure, sure. I had no idea of this would lead anywhere, but it’s been a weird journey. Were there ever, were there ever any other, like adult figures say in high school that kind of influenced your fantasy journey? Parents, of course, helped out, uh, video games was a, a, an avenue that helped me kind of explore that in a lot of worlds, a lot of early RPGs and JRPGs to like the, you know, Super Nintendo era and early PlayStation era. But there was a teacher in high school named Mr. Busby. Mm-hmm. At my high school, he was at the time of like, it was his first year teaching and. I was preparing, I think I was writing stuff for my home game my first year into really playing as a, as a dungeon master. Uh, I’d finished my test early and I was like writing out stuff and sketching A NPC and he took note of it in the end of class. He was like, what, what, what were you doing there? I was like, oh, I’m just making stuff for my D&D campaign. He’s like, cool. Uh, I, I played a lot of RPGs too. Have you heard of? And he started to run down all these different games. I hadn’t heard of that, like Shadow Run, uh, Amber, the DySIS role playing game. And he began to just, he was the first young hip adult in my life that was like, oh, hey, it’s cool to be a nerd. Yeah. I don’t know if you know that. Yeah. Yeah. And so he lent me a bunch of novels, uh, that he loved as well. And we would talk, I would finish my tests early, uh, bragging on that a little bit. Uh, and then I’d go over and we’d just chat about RPGs and fantasy worlds. How long has it been since you’ve talked to him? Uh, it’s probably been a, a few years we’ve kept up and I’ve come and visited and gotten lunch them a few times. Well, we do have a special message from him. What. Surprise it’s Mr. Busby, good to see you again. Not really see you, talk to you. So Josh asked me to share a story about you. It’s Mr. Busby. Some kids were making fun of Matt. They were teasing him. That happened a lot. ’cause Matt was the only kid who was taking dance as his PE class as a sophomore. And then I just kind of announced to the group, I said, you are all idiots. And everyone shuts up and looks at me confused and I said, lemme make sure I have this straight. So Matt’s the one guy taking dance with like 60 girls, and you guys are making fun of him. Who’s really the idiots here? Right? And so everyone kind of thought about that and I think Matt appreciated it. I remember that because one of the things I love about Matt is that sure, he feels peer pressure like the rest of us, but he doesn’t let it distract him from what he’s excited about, what he’s passionate about. What he wants to do. Uh, and so Matt, I’m proud of you. Keep up the good work and, you know, start making Shadow Run as famous as D&D some these days. Right. That’d be nuts. Have a good one. Yeah. Had to plug Shadow Run. I, that’s incredible. Oh my, you, you are a, you are a, a talented manipulator. You. Thank you so much. Well done. It’s the name of the game. It’s, you’re blinded by the chicken and dumplings and the whiskey. It’s easy to be blinded by it, it’s really tasty. What a cool first adult to have in your life, though. He’s one of those teachers that put far more effort than he needed to. Yeah. I remember we were doing, uh, European history and we had gotten into World War I and we came into class and the lights were off and he had arranged all the desks into trenches. Oh. And so we spent the class sitting in trenches discussing trench warfare and the horrors of war this whole time. And, and that was just an example of like the immersive aspect of his curriculum that you could see he meaningfully wanted you to understand. Yeah. Live in these spaces and absorb the lessons that he’s trying to get to you. The, the special teachers that you could see understood the importance and the responsibility of what he was trying to, trying to do. Uh, and that has never been lost on me. And I take still to this day, take a lot of inspiration to put just a little extra effort when it comes to mentoring, when it comes to teaching to, to, to kind of think back to what he did for me and carry that forward in what ways I can. Yeah. Matthew, for course number two of your final meal, we have the steak and cheese quesadilla from Casita’s Tacos Al Carbon, and then we have the chicken curry katsu with just a little bit of shaved cabbage, some scallion, some ginger dressing, and then hot sauce as the gentleman pleases, down to the bottom third, but that’s actually where it concentrates from all the evaporation better. This is well used. I love it. Dig in, man. Where are we going first? I go, uh, let’s go to the quesadilla first. I quesadillas have, there’s like a proper order to this quesadilla. Is they, they have a, a quicker, like a mortality rate. That’s true. Yeah. Means it congeal over time. I agree. I agree. What’s the significance behind Casitas Tacos Al Carbon? Mm. A place that I’ve to dozens of times without ever knowing the name of. Mm, oh oh my god. Me. It’s the best quesadilla in the world. Um, that’s such a good quesadilla. It’s so good. Such a good quesadilla. There’s something and like, and they’ve held this flavor for like 30 years. I don’t know what their secret thing is, but like. Never wash the grill. On’s secret. That could be it. I shave about 10 years off the lifespan, but it’s worth it. Yeah. So my, bring it back to my father. Uh, he, when we all moved to LA and had aspirations of working in the industry, uh, not everything pans out as you expect and as a musician, he went where all musicians eventually go to pastor, which is, uh, audio post. Uh, where it is a, it is a sea of a. A noble job, a noble job that, a noble job. Absolute noble job. But, but it is, it is a sea of ponytails and button up Hawaiian shirts and beards. Mm-hmm. Uh, uh, and, and people playing guitar. They all go to the same Jimmy Buffett concerts. Absolutely. To spend time with him, if we had the time, me and my brother would go and go with him to his shift and we’d bring like blankets and pillows and we ended up like falling asleep underneath the, you know, the audio bench. And, and his, the one of the places he worked at was right around the corner from Casitas, and he would go there for dinner almost every night. And so whenever we’d go, he would take us. And it was even just the first time trying at the most delicious quesadilla I have ever had that first time and then consistently every time since then. So it kind of became this when I was a kid, I never, I don’t have a car for a long time, so I, I only went there when it was to go spend the evening with my dad at his work. It’s so funny the way that you can almost transmit those taste memories, because I’ve eaten here dozens of times, and I’m not kidding you when I say that, I forget the name of it, because to me, this is the kind of quotidian lunch. Mm-hmm. I never noticed how good it is. Like that flavor that you’re talking about that’s like real proper Northern Mexican, mesquite, like the carbon literally means carbon. It’s charcoal. Like this is a really, really proper quesadilla. It’s like a gift. It’s like you’re giving someone a gift of a new experience that despite the fact they’ve already had it. Oh, I’m happy to hear that. You know? Yeah. I, uh, it’s there. The one that that, that we went to con continuously was the one in Burbank. Mm-hmm. Since that’s where all like the audio post houses were. There’s another one in North Hollywood as well that is pretty, pretty dang close flavor-wise, consistency. Um, so if any anyone’s traveling to, uh, the San Fernando Valley and you want to have the best quesadilla go to Casitas Tacos Al Carbon, it is so good. Okay. Does this have anything to do with a Japanese multi-level porn themed hotel? We don’t have the right sausage for that. Okay. Gotcha. Um, actually this, this is, this will kind of tie into some of the previous dishes. I grew up with a pretty picky palate as a child. Mm-hmm. As I came into adulthood, I tried to intentionally expand my palate. Mm. Some things I realized ’cause your palate changes as you get older and you’re like, oh, I actually like this now. Or I’ve come to enjoy it. Some things consistently, no. Um, but like curries and spicy food I tried to avoid because I didn’t like it as a kid. And it wasn’t until I, uh, had discovered anime conventions as a teenager and mm-hmm. Had met a new friend circle through cosplay and just being a bunch of anime nerds at a con that I began to be introduced to a lot of Japanese foods that I had never had before, or avoided. Sushi to me seemed to grotesque. How would you eat not cooked fish? And then I actually tried some, I was like, oh, this is actually really good. Yeah, I get it. Uh, but this in particular, there’s something about Japanese curry and I appreciate all curry now. Like I, like, I love Indian curry, I love Southeast Asian curry. I love all these different types of curry. But there’s something about Japanese curry in particular that is so specifically delicious when paired with rice. Mm-hmm. Um, that I have gone outta my way to keep at least a few bricks of the, you know, ready-made curry in our pantry, in our kitchen, just in case the, the mood strikes that we can go ahead and, you know, probably wash some, uh, some rice and, and make a, make a meal out of it. Um, and then of course the, the katsu chicken just pairs with it. Well, as far as like texture goes, uh, as a chicken fan, especially. Oh, this is very close to a southern American dish. This is fried chicken, gravy and rice. All three of those things are eaten a hell of a lot in American southern cuisine. Absolutely. Oh, oh damn. I wanna ask you about Critical Role. Is it true that Travis Willingham became the CEO ’cause he was the only one who was willing to open a bank account under his name. Kind of. Next question. Was becoming something whether we were ready or not. Yeah. And so it was about trying to be the most responsible we could with this kind of lightning in a bottle momentum. And part of that was going into business together, which is a terrifying thing. And we all had a very, very extensive series of meetings. We’re all like in in living room with pads of paper and going like, how do we do this? We’re all actors. We have no idea how this is supposed to function. And but Travis just kind of has that natural leadership quality already. Yeah, the height helps. The width, the general just girth of a man that he is, it, it very much kind of felt like the natural role. It’s actually a really interesting check and balance system where, well, nobody’s exactly doing what they wanted to do, but what’s been foisted upon them with a sense of duty. Yeah. Which I mean that, that’s all healthy leaders should be chosen really to some degree. Yeah. Even he was like, I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m gonna start researching and over as the years have gone on, he’s done. I don’t think people appreciate within our community, beyond quite how hard that man has worked to protect what we’ve built, who we are as people. Um, he is truly the, like the lion guardian to this magical little crew of people. I say little crew of people. I think it extends to all the wonderful collaborators we work with. All the people that are now part of our extended family, like he, he is gone toe to toe with some beasts and uh, I am so endlessly proud and thankful I couldn’t, I couldn’t imagine anybody else I would, you know, trust more than him to go into battle alongside. Yeah. So I had never actually watched like an actual D&D play through. Mm-hmm. And then I started watching campaign three. And full disclosure, I did skip around. Mm-hmm. But I ended up, it’s a lot of content. It’s, it is a lot of content. Which the thing that really shocked me was there’s an amount of intimacy to it that I wasn’t really expecting. Not intimacy, like the drawings you used to make in middle school, but I mean like real genuine, emotional, human intimacy. And I was trying to pinpoint where it comes from, and I think it’s you and the job you’re doing. It’s like a, DMing is like a gift that you’re giving people. It’s a story that’s crafted. With so much love and care. It’s like you’re bestowing it upon them. But then there’s also this like trust from, you know, the actual players of the game. And it’s this exchange of intimacy that extends to the audience. And I had like a very emotional moment. I was walking around a park staring at trees just with a grin on my face watching this transpire. Does that sound anything like the feeling that you get when you’re doing this? Absolutely. Playing one of these games is, is joyful with a group of people that you appreciate and trust. It’s not easy, you know, it, it takes time, it takes care. But to me it also shows how much I want to invest in somebody else’s joy. Yeah. You know, I’m like, look, I, I care about you so much. I’ve taken a, a healthy chunk out of my rare free time in this time that I have on this planet to build an experience for you to be your most heroic self. And I’m excited to see you break it in all the most beautiful ways that you can. Um, it’s been how I made most of my friends growing up, you know, as a kind of shy, somewhat introverted kid, uh, up until my late high school years, you know, until theater kind of pulled me a little outta my shell. But even like theater I didn’t get into until I’d been playing role playing games as a way to kinda show me that I had ways to engage with people. Yeah. Uh, I’m allowed to burp loudly on this show, right? Oh, a hundred percent. Good, because it’s coming. I’m like, two minutes behind you, brother. Good, good. Yeah. This type of collaborative storytelling that tabletop RPGs allow is one of the most accessible cheat codes to that experience because so many ways you can do it. So many hobbies, you know, going on hikes together, going and, you know. I know, I know. I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m, no, I’m saying this. Oh, this, this is a hobby to connect people. And I’m like, no, I wasn’t. I will continue to eat. You don’t gotta push me, man. Eat fast, asshole. Stop yapping. No, I’m saying that like, this has always been my way to bridge that gap. It’s the same, it’s like what lens do you view the world through in a certain regard? You know, I’m, I’m glad you brought that up. Finding those things in your life that you’re passionate about that you can share with others as that expression of investing in them. Mm-hmm. Um, games have always been that for me. And Yeah. And yeah. Uh, that’s kind of why I think Critical Role even found an audience in what was, and still is a very proliferated media landscape, is we’re not trying to create a show to sell. We’re playing this for each other. Like, and as much as people on the internet like to say, otherwise, I know better. ’cause I’m there, I’m in it. This is, this is me wanting to give something to my friends every week. And truly appreciating each other, loving each other, sharing in this joy together. And then hopefully through that, you know, opening the window to an audience to inspire them to do the same in whatever way they feel inspired to. Yeah. That said, sometimes you get sick of cooking and you’re like, damn, I wish someone would cook for me. And then now in campaign four, you find yourself playing for the first time in 10 years. I am, I am. I got to, I gotta step back and let my boy, uh, Brennan Lee Mulligan step in, who you’ve also had on this show. Veteran of the show, similar taste in food. I love it so much. It’s all the best foods. Did actually playing a character now instead of DM-ing, did any of that reignite some love you had for Dungeons and Dragons? Absolutely. First off, you were totally right. Dip that in there. Hell yeah. Two, two things I would never have thought to combine made better. This is Amen. It’s like, you know what, you’re, know what you’re doing. It’s my gift to you. It’s my gift to you. Aw. Thank like a you. Um. After 10 years, one, I felt time for a change to bring in some new friends, some new perspectives, some new blood. Brennan has become such a dear friend over these years and someone that I entrust not just with, uh, his capabilities as a storyteller, but his heart, his sense of ethics, and, uh, every facet of him I see part of the person I want to be in him. And I was like, this is the kind of, this is the person I could trust to hand this over to. And, uh, I was very grateful at an early time that he was kind of wanting to already, but now then getting to be a player and be at the same place with all the rest of my friends, both newer, uh, you know, uh, and older to step into a world that I don’t know everything about. I forgot what that sort of mystery is like. Yeah. You know, the concept of, of building just a small corner of this space and then stepping out into that fog of war with my friends hand in hand, arm in arm, and going. Whatever’s coming, we’re doing this together and it’s gonna be weird and wild and probably a little perverted and overall extremely fun. And it’s been, it’s been such a joy. Speaking of weird wild and a little perverted, the Mighty Nein. Oh yeah. It’s out. It’s out. It’s out. Thank you so much. I’m fascinated with the origin. So the Mighty Nein is set is 10 years after the, about 20 years, actually about 20 years after Vox Machina and Vox Machina was initially supposed to be a single 30 minute episode that you crowdfunded for $750,000. Yeah. And then when you launched the Kickstarter, you hit over a million in under an hour. And then now going on four Seasons of Vox Machina and you know, uh, the Mighty Nein out. Yeah. What does that say about the Critical Role fandom? And are you gonna try and take over a small island nation? Recommending Palau or Tuvalu. Because you could do it, man, with that funding. Jesus. I mean, given how things are going now, it might be necessary in a few years. Critters I’m one of you now I’ve watched four hours of game gameplay and I’m an expert. Man, none of this makes sense. We continuously, we’re, we’re 10 years into this and we’re still constantly going. What is happening to each other? Yeah. We, we all met each other as voice actors. We’ve all been doing this for a while and became friends through the animation industry, through our love of cartoons and video games. And as we were playing these games, even before we were streaming it, we would envision in our heads, man, this would make such a cool cartoon. Because that’s what a lot of people do when they play these games. How would this look as a movie? How would this look as a comic book? You know, uh, through the overwhelming support of this ever-growing community, we’ve been able to realize some of these dreams. But animation is so expensive. You know, we were very grateful that we’ve been so careful to, to remain independently artist owned, you know? Yeah. We, we are not behooven to VCs or a board of directors or anything like that. So we make what we are inspired and excited to do. Um, that also means you don’t really have the means of doing large scale animation. And so after pitching it around and the studios not really understanding what we were trying to bring to the table. What made this different or unique? We, our last Hail Mary was a Kickstarter, which even I was reticent on ’cause I’ve been involved in Kickstarters that either barely worked and ended up being not worth it in the long run. Mm-hmm. Production costs that operated out of unexpected spaces. So I was very reticent to do a Kickstarter plus it if it didn’t work. That’s a death nail for future production too. Yeah. Really. You know, like you, it’s hard to walk into a pitch room and be like, Hey, yeah, we’re those guys that couldn’t even raise funds. We’re 0 for one, but hoping to go one for two on this one baby. Yeah. It was tough. Um, but we, so we were like, hopefully the community wants this as much as we do. We’re like 750K for a pilot. It’s still relatively cheap for animation, but no, no small drop in the bucket. I don’t know if people will be down for that. Uh, we were very, very, very wrong and it really changed things in ways that we weren’t anticipating. One, it more than any moment showed how this community was with us on wanting to see these things realized. Yeah. Which was very emotional. Um, and it changed perspective from a lot of studios that previously weren’t quite understanding what the spark was we were bringing to this space. Yeah, we were very grateful after a lot of these conversations, uh, Prime Video came at us with an incredible partnership opportunity of going more or less, you understand this more than anybody, please be the creative leads on this. We’ll support you in what you need. Uh, we don’t own you as a company. Yeah. Like, let’s make the best show we can, uh, in the way that helps you do, uh, and see your vision through in the best way. And it’s been wild. Like the, the, the community support and the ability to bring this one, we’re now, we’ve, we’ve said we’ve been able to bring the entire story of Vox Machina to its complete close with, uh, five seasons, which is incredible. And now with Mighty Nein hitting, uh, which is a very. A very different vibe. Same world 20 years later, different continent. A very strange and wild plethora of characters, but it’s very political. It’s darker in some ways, it’s wilder in others. Um, they’re definitely meant to kind of stand alone as much as they sit next to each other, just like the original campaigns did that they’re based on. Yeah. This is crazy. I, I agree. It’s crazy that this is happening. It’s crazy, and also it’s not like it’s crazy and also it’s deserved. It’s both. Life is completely random. And then also entropy, but then order. It’s like this is, this is what it is, man, you think, I think this isn’t crazy. No. Fair. This is this shit. This is crazy. Yeah. None, this makes sense. No. Your cast spells on Kevin Sorbo in that movie. Dude, that shit is nuts, you know. Matthew, for course number three. Despite all this food, this is simply Hainan chicken, one of the world’s true great dishes. So we have the rice that has been cooked in fresh ginger and garlic chicken broth with a little bit of fresh chicken fat. And then we have the breast of the chicken that was actually poached whole in the aromatics, and then shocked in ice to shut down the cooking and then hung up for a day to dry while the skin was brushed in salt and sesame oil. And then we have the ginger scallion oil, plus a little bit of ketchup manis or uh, sweet soy. And then a chili sauce with, of course, the aromatic broth on the side. I can’t believe you did this. This is amazing. I, I’m so excited to dig in on this. Dig in, please. This I’ll to be given the opportunity to like nerd out on such a specific dish. And when I say given, I mean Lily, Lily smoked this dish and she was so stoked to, to try it. Come on. Mm-hmm. It looks so simple to your point, like. Mm-hmm. It very, very easily be just misconstrued as like standard just chicken and rice. There’s so much that goes into this dish. Uh, and it’s, it’s hard to find. I’ve, I have, there’s like Cluck2Go in Pasadena out here that has decent Hainan chicken. Yeah. Actually only encountered Hainan chicken, uh, be eight years ago, uh, me and my wife were on our honeymoon and we went, spent part of our honeymoon in Singapore, partially because we wanted to see the space and, and enjoy the, uh, the environment. I mean, Marina Bay was fine. It’s the very rich kind of core, but more to actually see true Singapore beyond that. And I was, I’d recorded on a video game called Masquerada with a studio called Witching Hour. Um, and the head of the studio, Ian was a very kind and was like, I’ll show you around and take you into the city. That’s awesome. And so we met up with him and he took us to enjoy all the true culinary de delights and the culture of Singapore beyond that. And that’s where he introduced, introduced us to true Hainan chicken. Blew our minds. Um, we gotta meet a number of wonderful local chefs and just kind of go from stage to stage. But this one just stuck with us to the point where we came back home after the. Uh, honeymoon. We immediately went to find a local place that could do it decently, and it’s still like a, a special treat for us a couple times a year when we’re like reminiscing about the honeymoon or we just kinda really feel in the mood, we’ll try and seek it out to kind of sift in that space. It sounds like Marisha introduced you to so many things that have so much value in your life now. Absolutely. You know, sure. I mean, she, she’s, she’s the most important thing in my life and conversely, I’ve, I hope I’ve done the same for her. And then there’s many opportunities like this that we’ve taken together to kind of, you know, sow and create these memories. And, uh, this is definitely, definitely one of them to the point where we have art on one of our walls of both, uh, Zhong Bao and Hainan chicken. No way. It’s just, just, just a beautiful artistic rendition we got at a, at a massive food festival a few years ago and we’re like, that has to live on our wall. We got a custom frame and everything. It was great. I love to view our, our relationship. As like two pillars. People that can like, stand on their own, but when you combine them holding up the same structure, they are, you know, stronger than they could ever be apart. And it’s like my wife, for instance, she, um, loves painting and drawing. And when the pandemic happened, um, you know, I would all show my love by cooking for her. And then, uh, the pandemic happened and, and shut down all the restaurants that we loved. She actually like watercolor, painted all of the most memorable meals that either I had cooked for her or that we went out to eat. And it was kind of this beautiful, I don’t know, value exchange sounds so cynical, but it was like, I’m good at this and this is something that you can never experience and touch. And she doesn’t know how make chicken tortilla soup and I do, you know, but it’s that thing. Likewise. When you proposed to Marisha, you created a whole, uh, lovecraftian escape room and the way that surely only you can do, how did that go down? I’m the least perceptive person in the world. I am, I am known amongst many of my friends to be just oblivious to the world around me. But she is the other way. She, like, she can look at a person for a second and like read them front to back where they’ve been, what their intent is. Like, she’s, she, she keeps us safe. Uh, so to try and get one over on her for a surprise, it was a lot of like plotting with friends and trying to think what could possibly both thematically appropriate, but also kind of catch her off guard. And it was, it was a lofty idea. To try and maybe like do like a fake escape room. I don’t even know if we had the options for it. And through like pooling amongst friends, we found a space that we could use for a short time. Me and my buddy Taliesin would sneak out during the week to go to, uh, thrift stores and find like old antique furniture for 10 bucks. You know? Uh, we would invite friends over on the weekend to build flats and paint them. And it was, it was a communal experience over weeks building it to the point where she began to suspect something and she would like call me out. There was, there was an argument we had where she was like, what, what is going on? What are you doing? Are you, you’re gone for all this time? Are you working? I don’t know what’s, something doesn’t feel right. And I’m like, I’m so sorry. No, truly, it’s okay. Once again, I’m a terrible liar, which is why I don’t lie. Uh, and she is really good at, at knowing something was off. She was totally right. Um, but yeah, we just, we, we built more or less a two roomed, uh, really simple escape room with some really fun puzzles. And we set up some cameras and I got separated very early on to it, to the offside, pretending I was in another chamber, but I was just watching on the cameras and making stuff up. And it ended with a kind of cosmic horror ritual where Travis had a big tentacle arm and there was a, like you do, I don’t know. But yeah, it, it, it looks better on, on our, our recording than in the janky in person scenario. It really was. It was shoestring budget. Um, but it, and even then, like she had hindsight was like, partway through, I knew what was going on. Um, yeah. What gave it away? The giant, uh, kaulu, like tentacle arm. Surely it must be a proposal, right? Yeah. Well, let be fair. We did, we did start tailoring the, the puzzles to be a little more personal. Oh, okay. Gotcha. And being a little, starting to lean a little towards the romantic, we weren’t trying to keep it like a full secret. It was like, let’s, let’s make this about something special while also being suffused in, you know, dark cosmic terror, existential dread. Mm-hmm. Um, which is a metaphor for your marriage. Of course. Absolutely. Micro. Yeah. So far so great. Perfect. It will consume all of you. Love it. Eventually. Uh, but like also, I was like, I also wanna give her the opportunity to do what she does best, which is be a hero and kill a monster. So. Like, uh, a friend of ours helped craft this light up blade that he cast in resin, and a part of the puzzle was putting the pieces together. And then the, the Travis character had like a glowing hole in its chest with a fake torso that we made sure was thick enough that he wouldn’t actually be stabbed. Um, but of course we weren’t paying attention and what was supposed to be a metal letter opener, part of the puzzle, she thought was the blade we were talking about. And we were like, oh God, she’s gonna stab Travis with an actual knife if we don’t interject. And so like friend off the side was like wrong blade and had to like make sure she was like, had, it was janky in all the best ways. And then while my friends were sitting around in cult robes in the ground pretending they were dead, I secretly pulled out my ring and proposed to her like a normal person. We’re a normal couple. I think you’re exactly not a normal couple, which is I think what makes you such a delightful couple. And I think everybody is not normal in their own way. Uh, it’s interesting to hear you say that though. You’re not very perceptive because I know you’ve kind of described yourself a bit as the like therapist of your friend group as somebody who like people come to for that kind of advice. And I would think that that emotional perceptiveness is also maybe part of like GMing. I think I’m very emotionally perceptive and emotionally, uh, in tune when it’s about other people. Mm mm. I don’t know if it’s a, if it, if it’s a, a point of, of intentional innocence in my head I like to think of the, the, the best in people, but also I do not perceive myself, like in the instance of people flirting, I, I struggle with the concept of anybody wanting to flirt with me. Is that something that is just sealed in from such a young age? I mean, you talked about, you know, not really having a ton of friends and I struggle with the same exact thing. Mm-hmm. I was just like super overweight as a kid and, uh, you know, didn’t have any attention from parents and didn’t really know where to get it, and felt very alone all the time. Yeah. And so I deal with a similar thing where I’m like, when I, when I pass myself in a mirror, sometimes I don’t recognize the thing that I see looking back. I, uh, I’ve, I’ve spoken a little bit on it in the past, but like I, I, I do have body dysmorphic disorder. I have a hard time seeing myself outside of, uh, a, a psychological filter in which I believe myself to be an unattractive, grotesque thing. Over a thousand hours of gameplay and Critical Role, surely the exposure therapy must have done something. There’s a journey to it. I think I’m better than I used to be. I know, I, I acknowledge I still have a long way to go, but I’m very grateful that I’m surrounded by very supportive people with a community that is very supportive. And at the very least, I like to be very open about these things because, uh, they aren’t talked about often, especially by men. It’s gotten better than it used to be, but we have a culture around masculinity to where it is considered weak to discuss challenges. Uh, yeah. And when it comes to body image, when it comes to emotion, when it comes to all these different things in which it’s exactly the opposite, because you see a lot of people that don’t have these discussions crashing out, having you know, very challenged interpersonal relationships, whether it be romantically or just in a, a, a social community space. That worries me at times, which is why I think those of us who have platforms like this to have these open conversations is that much more important because we’re all going through it in our own unique way. Yeah. Like every, every person out there, whether or not they acknowledge it or they talk about it, um, or they try and hide it. Like we’re all having our own specific unique challenges and, uh, whether or not you’re comfortable talking about it, having some people talk about it. Mm-hmm. Uh, hopefully helps somebody out there feel seen, feel like they aren’t alone, and feel like there is a path forward and trying to live with these challenges. And it is living with, there is no cure for these things. Yeah. I think that’s the acknowledgement too, is like, uh, there’s no way to be like, I, I spent three years and it’s gone. It’s like it, everything is is mitigating those challenges. And so as long as you can acknowledge that it is something that you can work towards and work with for a long time, uh, and get it to a manageable space or better, and you’re not doing it alone. I think one of the most valuable things that somebody said to me was thinking that all your mental challenges are uniquely yours, is kind of a form of narcissism and selfishness. Like you think you are so special that you’re the only person that’s ever thought about this. No, man, it’s everybody. Talk to ’em more. Matthew, for the final course of your final meal, we have flan, simply flan, beautiful caramel on top, nice and eggy and sweet. Would you look, would you like to do the briss or would you like me to? It looks like it might be very satisfying for you to carve into and I think it might be very fun. I’ve never heard of the referring to, to cracking into a flan as a briss. Uh, so this gets, adds the unique context. L’chaim. Alright. Oh, it is satisfying though. Here, I’ll tell you what, I’ll get one half of it and you get to share the other. This is, I think, the only truly equitable way do also, I’ve never seen a flan cut with a flexible boning knife, but I kinda love it. It’s kind of great. Oh my goodness. This is so good. Wow. Damn. Beautiful. Okay. Little quiver just. Oh no, oh God. He did not nail the dish. That’s okay. Rough points on delivery, but overall, still a very solid landing on the plate, oh. That one’s cleaner, I should have given myself the first slice. It’s always botched. You’re sweet. You’re sweet. Uh, cheers man. This has been wonderful. Cheers indeed. Thank you so much. Oh, it’s funny, like there are, there are many desserts that I enjoy, but spending most of my life in southern California. Mm-hmm. And having many friends who’s going over to have sleepovers at their house and they’re, you know, Abuelita would make an amazing flan. There’s just something about it that, that one screams family. Mm-hmm. For me at least screams being welcome in somebody else’s family’s home. Yeah. Uh, and I just love the culmination of simple flavors with an incredible texture. And the caramel itself, uh, which I’m gonna go ahead and spoon a little more this. Oh, do it, do it, do it. I’ve spent pretty much my whole life here and like, there’s so many things that I think I took for granted. Like even growing up in Orange County, it was like a tremendously diverse neighborhood where I could just eat the best, you know, Vietnamese food in the nation in Little Saigon. And then, you know, 20 miles south, not even 20 miles, five miles south, being Santa Ana, the biggest Mexican populations, it’s like such a gift to be able to travel so much of the world in such a small area. Absolutely. I’ve been a, ever since I’m, I’m moved out through like all my twenties up till now. I’ve very much been a valley rat. San Fernando Valley has been that place ’cause it’s affordable. Um, but also it’s such a, it’s such a cultural mixing pot. Mm-hmm. Just to find little hole in the wall spaces. Mm-hmm. And, and meet some strangers and strike up a conversation and learn about each other. And then. Either head off into the night or like, Hey, you guys wanna go over to this place and do some karaoke at like 1:00 AM. You know, you walk into one, uh, uh, Bayou themed New Orleans bar that didn’t have a liquor license. So they’re trying to make you hurricanes with, you know, sake and uh, a Sazerac with, uh, you know, vermouth. But we’re glad we did it and we had a wonderful time. Oh boy. You know, we had a wonderful time. Sazerac with. But there’s a sense of like exploration around that. And that’s the thing too. Yeah. You have, you have to, you have to embrace the chaos of what may come. I don’t know. If you can appreciate a good bad movie, then, then you’re in the right space for it, if that makes sense. If you can go into a space and be like, this place is trash and I appreciate it because it’s trash. We ended at Chili’s and we did, and we did man, see best drinks we had all night. It was beautiful. That’s the way to do it. How do you embrace that chaos during a D&D campaign, especially knowing that you have hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people watching? I know you said you still get nervous every time you do it. But like there’s one thing getting nervous for your friends. Mm-hmm. Which is very reasonable. And then there’s another thing of getting nervous for a hoard of internet strangers who if they really wanted to, could either take over Tuvalu or destroy you. Uh, and sometimes it feels like you never know which is gonna come. Uh, I told people. I’m glad you brought it up. It’s great. Uh, I told people to cook chicken to 155 instead of 165, and they said they were gonna contact the health department and send ’em here. You understand. We’ve worked hard to cultivate our game space to still be as close to a home game experience for us as we can. It’s where the point, I can mostly forget it within the first 15 minutes of playing. And the only reason that any of this has happened with Critical Role over these years, I believe, and I firmly believe it is because it’s just us opening a window to what we’d be doing anyway. So the nerves of an audience being present have to not be part of that equation or else it will corrupt what our joy is, and as such, why we’re here. You know, it would be much easier for us to not build sets and just do green screen or to do music and post. But that immersion is for us, it’s for us as players. It’s, you know, I, I, I don’t build things for, for the people that are watching. ’cause I trust that if, if I’m doing it for them, the audience will also enjoy it. Um, and even if they don’t, uh, not being on social media as much is also very helpful. Hey, how you can just, you can just not look at it. Yeah. I just deleted Twitter and suddenly all the bad things that used to be on Twitter that I would stress about, they’re simply not there. They’re gone. I haven’t gone on Reddit in over a year. It’s incredible. It’s what? Yeah, free. Honestly, like, like not going on, on, on Reddit has been such a, a joyful experience and, and there’s great discourse on Reddit, but it’s just mired in the possibility of finding the, the overwhelmingly negative things. Uh, and I’m not discounting people’s perspectives. Everyone can have an opinion. Uh, some opinions are wrong. I was on Reddit and I saw some things. A value, which is the worst way anybody can ever start a sentence. But No, I’m curious what your emotions are when you hear the term the Mercer effect, because that was a crazy thing that I had never considered, and I found it to be damn near Greek tragedy level. Mm-hmm. In a very strange way. And the Mercer effect is effectively, you’re so good at GMing that when people watch Critical Role and they actually go into a real game in their own life, they’re disappointed because their GM can never live up to what you’ve created. Yes. That, that was, that was the, the whole Mercer effect impetus early into our time. It’s so sad that that’s the takeaway. My, my immediate reaction now is if you walk into that expectations for a GM to to be me, you better step up to be as good as Laura Bailey, you know, or Sam Regal, or any other players at our table. But secondly, you shouldn’t want them to be me. You know, there are, so every person that runs a game, there are things that I can do far better than them, and there are things that they can do far better than I ever can. Every table has its own unique flavor, its own unique atmosphere, and instead of celebrating what makes that table unique and, and the collaboration that happens there, to walk in with that sort of expectation is more of a judgment on who you are as a person and how you walk in the world, than anybody who’s trying to build a story for you to have fun could possibly present. So for me, the, the Mercer Effect for a number of years kind of hung like an albatross on my shoulders. Mm. Uh, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve spoke about how much it hurt my heart, how it goes against the idea of why I even wanted to do this. The whole point was to try and inspire people to play. And the good news is, by and large, I think that’s true. I talk to so many people, uh, it’s, it’s weird. I know on the internet sometimes the loudest people are the vast minority, but, uh, but nevertheless, it doesn’t, I don’t want to either, uh, or I don’t want to also say that people haven’t had a negative experience. Sure. They’ve attributed to this. But sometimes that’s just, it’s less about what this effect is and more the fact that some people are unfair and assholes at a table. And also a super minority that is at a very specific time in their lives when they would do that and likely will look back on those interactions and regret it in a certain regard. Possibly. I, I’d like to believe so. At least that’s tends to be the way that I view those kinds of interactions. Yeah. I don’t know if that’s, uh, foolhardy or not. No, no, no. It’s not foolhardy. You have to be optimistic in that regard. I don’t know what challenges they’re facing in their life, what lack of control they are struggling with. So I can only accept, or can only assume for some of them at least, that it’s more of a reflection of them trying to express their frustrations with their life in a way, in a form that they feel like they have a little bit of control to do so, and that allows me a little more distance to go, well, I hope this helped you and let it wash off my back a little better. Uh, and then not going on social media for the most part has also helped tremendously. Do you remember any of the lyrics from the song about your grandfather that your father wrote that was about forgiveness? And does any of this general empathy always come from what you learned from your father about that. Kind of heart with loving soul? Yeah. He, Joe Miller, uh, my dad’s dad, complicated figure. I used my father as a perfect example of somebody that could have easily been shaped by a challenged childhood into a, a person as, as dark as their father was, and instead made the very active choice to go the very opposite direction. My dad writing the song Old Joe about him was very much a, a recollection of the things that were important to him, the, the bits of light that he still saw in spite of all that and the things that held, he held onto to understand that a lot of this was circumstantial. A lot of this was. A tough atmosphere that forged him into a hardened, bitter, um, angry person, acknowledging that in the middle of all that was still, still someone who was capable of love and somebody that, uh, he could learn from the good bits and acknowledge the bad bits enough to not fall into those same traps and mistakes and has not. Yeah. And so, yeah, that song Whew. Huh. Um, yeah, that song has a special part in my heart because it’s a special part in his, and I’m very proud of my dad for acknowledging and, uh, choosing to take the different path. We ask every episode, what do you think happens when you die. Onto some lighter material. Yeah. Yeah. I, it’s interesting. I have a hard time believing in absolute oblivion if only because information is not destroyed. Energy and information transfers. It continues. Everything is altered and changed by what it interacts with, with two pieces of matter collide. They are both irrevocably changed and carry the information that collision with them. Um, so whether it be the ashes and dust of my body return to the earth and become, you know, the, the livelihood of the plants and critters and creatures that are grown from it and continue it forward. Like, I, I have a hard time not believing as I get up in my later years that there is some sort of continuation, maybe not in the consciousness that we understand here. Mm-hmm. I’ve studied a lot of religion just from a cultural and historical, like fascination with it. And there are aspects of the philosophies that I kind of cobble together for myself. You know, I wouldn’t consider myself religious. I do have a, I guess you could see a light, spirituality, spirituality that is mostly based in, maybe to borrow a little bit of my mom and dad hip, you know, hippieism. Like just, Hey man, it’s all vibes and we’re just here for a short time. Enjoy. But that, that’s kind of where I sit. So like, I think, I think when I, I think what happens when we die is we hopefully have the opportunity to look back on the impact that we’ve left, if we’re lucky enough to have that moment, to appreciate the lessons, to appreciate some semblance of legacy and return to the elements that we were birthed from. And maybe, maybe some semblance of, of consciousness or emotion carries on in some subatomic level, uh, into all the different other parts of life that will spring forth from what we leave behind. I watched this really great documentary called Inception. That gave me a fair amount of hope. I like that. You ready to go to the lightning round? Let’s go for it. Who’s the one person dead or alive you’d want to share your actual last meal with? Off the top of my head, I would say Richard Fineman. What song do you want to be played at your funeral? The Final Fantasy prelude music. How many times have you fully played through the video game Akiba’s Trip? Not all the way through. I partially played through it once, not all the way through. Fake fan. Uh, uh, what’s your biggest fear? Unintentionally hurting the people I care about. Mm-hmm. What’s your greatest regret? Not spending more time with my first dogs. Hmm. Uh, you once DMed for Stephen Colbert, who is next on your bucket list of people to DM for. Everything at this point’s gravy. Like I, I’ve had those points in my life where I’m like, I hit my goals. I what, everything from this point is, is, is I’m just happy. I’m just happy to be here having fun. Um, you know what, I’ll keep, I’ll, I’ll keep it in the genre. John Stewart. You have ’em both at the table. You have 49 different special skills listed on your actor’s access resume. Oh no. I’m going to list some off and. No, I. Tell me. I forgot about that. I haven’t used it in years. How much you lied about them. First, bungee jumping. On a scale of one to 10, how much did you lie about being able to bungee jump? No, I’ve bungee jumped a few times. Roller skating? Yeah. At the time I, I was okay at it. I, I, I had parties at roller rinks. Uh, swimming comma breaststroke. Yes. Yes. I could swim and I could do a breaststroke. Swimming, comma backstroke. Weirdly also can backstroke. Swimming comma butterfly. I don’t remember what that is. Why did, why did they make you choose all individual strokes on actors’ access? It’s, it’s one of the sheer joys of being a new actor is trying to find whatever way you can to pad the resume. ’cause they only look, look at it at a glance. And if it looks like it has a lot of words that looks important, um, yeah, you put like an operate toaster, you know, like, there, it’s. That was my next one. You can operate a toaster. I can, yeah. Okay. Can, good, good, good. Mostly. Finally, Matthew, are you happy? I am extremely happy. This is, this meal has been a delight. This sharing of story has been a delight and you’ve been such a kind host and having me in your space. So thank you so much. Truly, no, thank you for being so complimentary. Thank you for being so forthcoming. Uh, just thank you for being who you are, man. It’s been, uh, been truly a pleasure. I really appreciate it, buddy. If you wanna deliver your last words to that camera right there. Thanks. That’s it. Everyone, check out the Mighty Nein, seems weird to hit a plug after something, so. That’s the best time. Truly, the Mighty Nein. What are you talking about. Incredible man. Dude, congrats on all the success on everything, man. It’s been been such a joy. Yeah. Pleasure’s mine. Uh, yeah. Check out Mighty Nein on Prime Video. We’re super excited. We’re super proud. It’s gonna be, uh, it’s gonna be a journey. I’m gonna finish some more of this one, so I think my body’s gonna go into shock if I keep eating, it’s so dense. Me too. That’s what makes it so good though. Me too. Exactly. We’ll nap outta this. Right? That’s how it works. We all gotta eat and we know you’re dying to get your hands on a last meal’s apron and pin. Get yours now at mythical.com.