they say you don’t buy the cow and you can get the milk for free so why are people still buying cookbooks when Google exists please buy my cookbook though we’ll drop the link in the description this is a hot dog as a sandwich ketchup is a smoothie yeah I put ice in my cereal so what that makes no sense hot dog is a sandwich a hot dog is a sandwich Welcome to our podcast a hot dog is a sandwich the show we break down the world’s biggest food debates and today I am joined by Noah gluten Noah is hold on I got a bio here a chef a James Beard award-nominated cookbook author and co-host of the popular daily live stream cooking show Don’t Panic pantry is it live streamed it’s a it was it’s a YouTube show now it’s a YouTube show now uh are you familiar with YouTube I’ve heard of YouTube um I’ve heard of there’s like you and then it’s one of the most popular sites what’s the second word after that.com that’s it um but uh welcome what what was your James Beard nomination for it was for uh on vegetables The cookbook I co-authored with Jeremy Fox nice did you win no who beat you you think I would have had my bio say nominated if I won I don’t know man I’d like to put zero time all American it’s like my bio yeah it’s like top 11 best seller I’ll take it man anyways thank you so much for coming on the show it’s a pleasure uh you have written a whole lot of cookbooks with a whole lot of chefs out here and today we’re asking you to re-examine your whole life and career because why are cookbooks not completely useless these days with allrecipes.com out there scraping at the SEO Barrel you know I think there’s a there’s a lot of stuff that exists in the world and some of them better than others but uh you know and look the internet version of it all exists and is and can be great for various things um but you know I think that there is still the matter of curation and also I think there’s still the value of having a physical object like look at the way like the streaming Universe exists now Westworld is wiped from the face of the Earth and no hone has a way of watching it now because you heard about that right no way Westworld is gone they like deleted it from their servers for like tax purposes so literally you can’t watch Westworld anymore was that not like a really popular show I know they did that with like Batgirl but was Westworld not like one of their hits it did okay I guess but they scraped it for tax purposes I think that’s true anyone this is like so this is the gold standard argument for cookbooks it’s like everything on the internet can be erased you need to have some something physical you can hold yeah also have you ever spilled fried grease on an iPhone it is not ideal actually I have but also you know I think about it too like you know there’s so many cookbooks in the world there’s so many amazing ones that already exist but I kind of think that uh cookbooks are kind of like uh like pornography like there’s so much but we still keep making it the reason is because people are looking for a human connection and they want someone to fall in love with in some form or another and I think that you know like when you know Ina Garten or Lydia bastianos are you talking about cookbooks or pornography on this one uh I’m I’m one of the two that’s for certain um that you know people you get a connection to someone you want to know what they want to do you want to sort of be led into their life and I mean you have your version of that I’m sure too and I think that that’s kind of a very very cool thing about this and and also you know the really good ones hopefully are really good and stand the test of time and the fact that I get to like have my cookbook coming out that has my mom’s recipes in it that I get to like give to my daughter hopefully it also makes money because it’s not just for my daughter and my mom but uh yeah I think it’s that’s that’s part of the whole deal with it yeah I think there’s there’s a lot of psychology involved in uh what you pay for is how much effort you’re actually willing to put into it oh like a sunk cost kind of a deal that’s not costing like if you buy an expensive gym membership you are more likely to actually go to the gym because then there’s that sunk cost of well crap I’m paying 160 a month now as opposed to 19.99 or whatever at Planet Fitness now I’m actually gonna go do that I think for me that’s a huge part of why I buy cookbooks and why people buy cookbooks yes like if I spend thirty dollars on a hardcover cookbook then I’m actually going to do it as opposed to like I’m gonna google a recipe for chicken teriyaki and then not actually make it Slough off not actually follow it so to me I think that’s part of it also the Googling of it requires you to know what you wanted to make in the first place yeah and if you can flip through a cookbook you can get ideas for things that when you don’t know what the hell you wanted to make and that’s I think another part of cookbooks being able to kind of see if through the library and go pull out like you know the the new like walks of life cookbook and be able to just go like oh that’s a really cool thing I have half those things I just need to grab some beef and I can do this stir fry yeah walks of life man they do they do great work those guys working for a long time amazing um okay so tell me about your Coke and they have a Blog and they made a cookbook still and guess what it was a New York Times bestseller well that okay so I grew up in what we call the blog to book pipeline like that was this is how old I am how old are you I had something called a vlog this is it a blog is a portmanteau a vlog and book I believe well you’re also like you’re really uh like a leader in traditional old media like YouTube yeah exactly I mean YouTube is becoming old media that’s where we’re at but no I started my blog uh culinary bro down back in college and there was legitimately an agent just reached out to me because he was like Hey I read your foodie blog and I thought it was really good and I think this could become a book so that was like the way that things happened back then which means you’re really interesting because I never understood the psychology of like I’m putting this out here for free but then you will also just buy a bigger hardcover version of it yeah and so it almost led me to have this somewhat cynical perspective which I don’t necessarily know if it’s cynical or not you tell me but people just want to find a way to give people they like money but they can’t just send it to you they need a thing yeah and you put out a thing you say Hey you like this thing you want to give me money but I can’t just ask you for thirty dollars and so we’ve made a token and you can now have it it’s all the same things from the blog it’s like literally my cookbook was a giant blog post right it could have been all written on the internets and it wasn’t but also aren’t the cookbook versions better versions of them that have been tested more thoroughly and you’ve spent more time and money toward them or other people maybe you didn’t do like ish that’s like the idea I suppose right or at least people people think that’s the idea you know what do you think we should address the fact that Noah today is filling in for Nicole goal is at home sick uh Noah do your best Nicole impression um I just you know Josh I just think you are doing a really bad job today yeah that’s great I need the emotional denigration actually that’s what fuels me uh but tell okay so tell me about Don’t Panic Pantry because you just dropped your first solo dolo cookbook yes uh so you know um it’s there’s a long version an alternator the shorter version but basically um I’d been in talks on doing this cookbook with canop pre-pandemic and then the pandemic hit um everything kind of got put on pause including uh my amazing wife who’s a stand-up comedian who was about to go on a big worldwide tour had to pause her tour so we’re stuck at home like everybody else for what we thought was going to be two weeks and we decided to do a live stream cooking show just to kind of help people flatten the curve remember that that was cool oh yeah that was a slogan that we had for a long time and courage people tell like limit trips to the grocery store you know plan ahead cook with what you have and so it was kind of my way of helping people through that and um and connecting with their audience and all this amazing stuff and uh we we called it don’t panic Pantry we were going to call it quarantine cooking glad that didn’t that didn’t last I think uh I think Alton Brown called his version that well he’s not opening he’s not releasing a quarantine cooking book now is he sure not sure and so it became this kind of incredible meeting place for everybody and you know people said that it was this place defense of community and all these things but then honestly it was also a thing that kept me from going completely fully insane yeah and so we had a thing to do every night it was we did 250 episodes it turned out holy and uh and we ended up doing like like the Zoom version of The Today Show was was interesting and it became this kind of very cool amazing thing and then over the course of that process uh kanop my amazing publisher who I love uh who also have produced most of my favorite cookbooks of all time they like go back to like Lydia Bastianich and Edna Lewis and uh they did Julia Child’s cookbook anyway um and so the they said listen we still want to do the book with you but can we Rebrand it around the the uh the show because it’s just a great way to do it and so it and also like these relationships with all these people on this this back and forth with the fans really changed the cookbook that I wrote to really understand what people are looking for how they get so like overwhelmed and so terrified by by food and eating for a lot of people like you know a meal is an obstacle that happens three times a day you have to overcome and you know food is so personal and it’s so specific and so trying to really help people to find this kind of rational Middle Ground where it doesn’t have to be like you have to change your entire life in order to uh improve your life and you know when people do that you end up doing it for three weeks you hire a trainer you change your entire diet and then you go back to being what you were before and I think that you know that trying matters and better is enough and that’s kind of what I’m trying to to promote with this with this book and this idea yeah I mean talking about the difference between a cookbook and say something like a blog or a YouTube show um there’s a dang it I hate that I’m going here there’s a reason cult leaders right manifestos right yeah there’s a reason because it’s a lot easier to put everything you believe into a written Tome this is a p this is a type of media that has existed since the beginning of time and will continue to because that’s a powerful way to communicate ideas with people and that’s what I love about Don’t Panic Pantry this is a Shameless plug portion but I really do um that you you recognize that people are stressed out about not having enough time feeling overwhelmed by the idea of cooking there is analysis paralysis out there because there’s so much crap on the internet telling you what to make or what not to make there’s fear around Health around environmental concerns yeah in your whole philosophy of like hey trying is good because I think when people get this idea that if you just eat mozzarella balls and anchovies every day that you’ll like suddenly be the healthiest person in the world pretty much but I mean there’s it’s it’s all your whole book is based around these kind of like rational principles yeah make your life easier and make your life better and to have all that in one book in one Tome one manifest I think is is a really great way to actually connect a message to people especially when they have that sunk cost of buying the book it’s something they’re actually going to digest and I think it’s really cool it’s probably the only Manifesto that says these aren’t rules they’re just guidelines give it a shot try to do it but if you need to eat a cheeseburger go ahead yeah your cult’s not gonna really take off I don’t think but the cookbook might which is good I mean you know when your subtitle for your book it’s it very reflects uh the way I think about everything but uh it’s uh the subtitle of the book is mostly vegetarian comfort food that happens to be pretty good for you and it’s uh and again it’s like it’s not about you have to be this way you have to be that way it’s if you want a vegetarian be my guest do it but also that like we’re we don’t need to have this lifestyle of like eating terrifying amounts of factory produced meat that like a little bit of meat can go a long way in flavoring a dish and then having balance in your diet is important and one of the things that I learned in my research for this book I got to work with some amazing uh um uh academics and scientists getting like metadata of studies where you’re studying not just one study but the study of like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of studies to actually get real information because you know one study is really hard to reproduce sure but if you do this whole thing and the biggest takeaway from the entire book if anyone gets anything from this interview it’s that we are not eating enough fiber no one’s eating enough fiber and then if you increase your fiber intake to the amount you’re supposed to be eating which is basically just double it essentially um is that it decreases what they called uh all-cause death by 30 percent so if you want to die uh 30 less uh just eat more fiber and everyone’s like obsessed with protein and they should be obsessed with fiber we’re all getting enough protein I feel attacked by the getting enough protein thing uh but no no but that general idea that there there are so many different ideas out there trying to yeah can you not tell sorry I had to pause to do that uh no I mean I eat 200 grams of protein a day which I believe doctors say like 40 is enough um but then there’s some Instagram influencer who’s huge and I know they’re on steroids I just know it physically huge yeah like physically like both I mean they’re popular because they’re physically huge they’re physically huge because they’re popular it’s a vicious cycle really they’re telling me I gotta eat 200 grams of protein a day uh Noah how do I solve my to be jacked and for the world to love me which then allows me to love myself Noah that’s what this is all about yeah I uh yeah there’s I guess there’s two versions there’s the uh there’s the Jack get jacked up yourself and there’s the try to fill the hole in your in your stomach with food yeah it’s an emotional hole correct just keep filling it and that emotional hole man you can really shove a lot of Doritos in there it just absorbs them like a pool filter it just yeah it’s going great uh anyways what are you talking about anyway cookbooks are good do people cook do people actually cook are you out there actually cooking because statistics say no well that’s always kind of the big one like because people watch food shows a lot but I always say it’s like not to I don’t know why I keep referring to pornography on this show but uh it’s there’s like a phenomena that I was sort of equate to like nuns watching porn yeah it’s like you’re not doing it but you’re into it oh man I never that is a Perfect Analogy I mean and I think literally porn consumption is going up especially young people having sex is going down literally the same thing is happening with food show consumption and people cooking and the data actually supports this yeah oh wait sorry this is a weird segue please did ever tell you back when I think we were both maybe or maybe about pre-you working at La weekly uh I was there was like the big like uh food porn was like a big phrase yeah that’s what I thought it’d be funny to try to write an article about porn food so I reached out to a uh like a producer uh named Mark Spiegler uh who by the way his email signature was quote patron of the Tarts love it which is amazing that’s clever I remember I interviewed him trying to see like you know what’s like the catering like on a porn site and he talked it sounded like he was talking through a sandwich but he said basically uh he goes you know back in the old days uh you know we used to have catering but now the girls are lucky if we get him if we get him a pizza or something so it didn’t end up I that should have did you publish it no he didn’t I didn’t get enough anyway for it but I didn’t want to go down that rabbit hole too far uh one of my favorite pieces ever was in Lucky Peach speaking of of written media here it was in Lucky peace it’s still uh it’s still going strong right yeah I love you you know you can probably eBay some bat catalogs on it um don’t look into what happened in the internal politics of it all but there was somebody who uh went to just an orgy just your classic Garden variety like middle class orgy and they just wrote about the food that was there and they had a whole Buffet spread people would go off into their different rooms come out and then they’d just you know be naked eating chicken wings from a buffet that just sounds like smart planning that’s smart planning that’s good you just get to you know I’d read that cookbook that’s where maybe you want to go higher protein lower fiber that’s fair enough that’s fair enough you know and probably don’t do the spicies for obvious reasons I uh you know we’ve all been there uh had accidents yeah yeah is this going as as on the rails as you expected so far oh this is the general podcast no talk to me about why aren’t the youth cooking as much uh no but for real okay so so so so cookbook sales are going up yeah which is the cookbooks that are that are being sold and being made are actually changing a lot the like coffee table chefy restaurant book is not selling in the way that it was before and now people want they want real cookbooks that work and they you know if you’re and I’m very lucky I get to be running uh more cookbooks right now with other people um uh some of them might even be in this room no one even knows um who could tell but uh you know they don’t want the the chefy at home cookbook that you know this idea of like how to make Molecular Gastronomy work at home and you know and so a lot of times it’s very hard to get these chefy chefs to actually write real home cooking recipes but when you find people who can really do it it’s an incredible thing so they want food that people can really make at home and that’s really what I’m trying to do with my book and that’s what I kind of what my job is a lot of times when I work with like big deal chefs um who you know are used to restaurant cooking is helping to kind of simplify stuff down so that you know like how do you get away with using less mixing bowls you know stuff like that so that the person who doesn’t have a dish pit they can throw stuff into can actually make real food at home on a weeknight and not have it like be their entire day yeah do you think that so we’ve seen the Trends they were still rising in terms of like cookbook sales in production before the pandemic but then after the pandemic is when you really saw it Skyrocket especially there’s some crazy stat like bread baking cookbook sales are up 240 percent yeah every year because people were like oh God cooking is actually a valuable skill especially when stuff hits the fan and suddenly we need to know how to do stuff there’s another factor I think in it too which is you know this is a kind of a weird weird thing to think about but you look at like the way that the the tech world has influenced um like all these apps that we’re using things you look at like Postmates Uber Eats all this stuff they’re all it’s like VC money being spent so they can basically increase growth and not care about profits yeah and now you’re seeing it with Netflix everybody else all of a sudden they’re like hey wait a second we have to actually make money on this stuff and so now the prices for your mediocre delivery that took an hour that had something missing is getting more expensive it’s taking longer it’s less good and you’re sitting around going wait a second I could spend way less money have my food faster and have it taste better if I learned how to cook it myself and I think that’s also what’s happening on top of all this as well yeah I think it’s it’s really this incredible just supply and demand cyclical nature right is for a while people were like well there aren’t enough delivery options we want cheap delivery options to be available and then they were force fed to us through things like Postmates that artificially just decreased the price hoping that you’d get hooked on it and then suddenly you’re paying 22 dollars for a cold Chipotle Bowl that’s half filled because they’re filling so many freaking orders and so then the demand for that just drops and now people are realizing that oh crap I can just cook at home and so I think we really are on this just cyclical pattern right and like you said with the chef cookbook I got so many if you are buying gifts for a foodie friend do not just buy them random cookbooks and random cooking utensils that they’ll never use I have pulled pork shredders that look like Wolverine claws yeah they make Forks man like Forks exist I didn’t I didn’t need those Susan I’m basically opposed to any single use kitchen tool yeah unit taskers man yeah the only exception is is I got one of those little hand garlic slicers those are just fun also I cook with a lot of garlic so it works out same uh but the the the chef cookbook the it’s like oh I know you’ve been to this restaurant I’m gonna buy you this cookbook yeah and there are these just like 40 gigantic coffee table things and if I were to put every uh Mike voltaggio’s Inc uh Charles fams Slanted Door like I have a Ludo lefevre’s you know cookbook oh there’s the crazier ones the ones that are like like the favican cookbook yeah yeah like so you know get a tree from my dad’s backyard put it on fire and then use the it’s a spruce that only oh lovely at the winter oh my God but no these these cookbooks that are not accessible they are the thing that I was talking about earlier where it’s like a token of I’ve heard of this person I’d like to pay them money for a thing yeah and then you get the thing you don’t actually use it but now it seems like we’re coming back around to where people want to know how to actually cook yeah and like there’s nothing makes me happier than like seeing cookbooks that are like dog-eared and have food stains in them it’s like a it’s like accidental uh scratch and sniff that comes after the fact yeah like I I love that stuff and I grew up loving cookbooks so I I have like a a deep passion and affection for them and so you know that’s why like genuinely when I like got to meet with kanop like the people who like made the cookbooks that were on my mom’s shelf growing up and get to like work with them and make this book it gets it’s really freaking cool and like those are the kind of things that you have the tactile thing of it and you know and like you know yes there are really great blog posts out there certain the one that are really great do amazing jobs but like the amount of time and energy that it takes to make a really good cookbook is it’s it’s like a it’s a like a two-year commitment of your life that you spend a ton of energy on and really care a lot about and uh it means a lot to me and if that’s why when you find cookbooks that people don’t care about where they’re kind of like like there’s like this celebrity chef who’s kind of like writing the cookbook on the phone while trying to open a restaurant and shoot at like a Food Network pilot where you’re just like because your agent told you you were supposed to that drives me crazy and that’s kind of the same thing with restaurants anything else it’s these are these industries that are not the most lucrative businesses in the world so if you get into them and you don’t care like just that’s that’s sort of inexcusable to me yeah what do you think about Kris Jenner’s cookbook I haven’t uh seen it you haven’t seen it no oh my God she has a recipe for Nicole Brown Simpson’s nachos in there oh wow yeah they actually put chicken on them she doesn’t anymore that that checks out anyways sorry I had that invasive thought and I had to say it um God I have a there’s a cookbook it’s very hard to find I need to give you a copy of it uh because I think I bought the last one I’ve used on Amazon it’s called The Good The Bad The cookbook it was sent to me by a publicist years and years ago and it is the most incredible uh uh food photography you’ve ever seen in my life it’s like it looks like uh like every photo is like a two-page spread of like a like a chicken Salt and Boca that got caught cheating with flash photography wait like is that was it intentional do you think they had a no it was just somebody you thought that oh this is the best I can do it it’s I mean if you ever want to have a good time uh just have eight cocktails and sit with a friend and read this book and you will uh you’ll have the best time um my personal favorite is called uh 50 Shades of chicken okay where it’s based off of the popular El James uh 50 Shades series that introduced a lot of um Midwestern Housewives to BDSM I consider it sort of the Guy Fieri of bondage so it’s like an animal husbandry sort of a book correct me Mundo yeah yeah uh no it is literally just uh they’ll just show a lot of trust up chickens and then have a bunch of recipes that do not work I tested some of these recipes I wrote this joke of an article where I tested a recipe that said like brush a half chicken with like heavy cream and mustard and then like bake it at 500 and I’m reading this I’m just like that’s a good one doesn’t taste good and then two this is going to burn immediately and sure enough it burnt when it was still raw so God bless the novelty cookbooks out there but like you said there is a quality gap in people who are actually caring about writing these things people who have you know done it uh for a long time and care about it versus you know all the all the muck that just got published because it was a catchy title yeah and you know and that’s the publishing world is constantly changing and it’s it’s it’s a wild world out there I mean it’s why you know I I really try to do everything I can to push people to buy cookbooks from independent bookstores you know again not getting into the whole like Tech rant again like you know Amazon they are by far the biggest sellers of cookbooks um and or books I guess actually everything and it you know and when you buy a book from Amazon it it helps the authors the least helps Publishers at least uh counts the leads toward the New York Times bestseller list and you know it’s not to I guess I guess uh I guess I’m gonna just talk about Amazon and then do it they’re gonna bury him do it Jeffrey Bezos come at us no but you know what ends up happening is you know their business model is built around putting small businesses yeah out of business that’s why they create the Amazon Basics versions of things that were popular and so you know I think as much as possible it’s great to support you know here in La we’ve got now serving which is an amazing little cookbook store that I’m doing a lot of stuff with out here but there’s I did a independent bookstore campaign with 10 independent bookstores around the country La Crusade donated 10 dutch ovens to do giveaways all these books that’s like nine million dollars worth of Dutch ovens it’s yeah it’s uh it’s an incredible thing so I just yeah to me it’s you know you try to do the best you can in a in a rapidly devolving hellscape you know uh the world is falling apart and I’m like you know composting and collared green stems in the backyard and hoping it does something other than just give me that that feeling of joy to know that I’m putting slightly less things in a trash can I’m a big fan of your Instagram series of you composting you look like you’re having a blast out there I want to ask you about your your favorite cookbooks of all time like what are the other cookbooks besides yours don’t panic Pantry buy Don’t Panic pantry if you say it enough it gets into the metadata of the episode get it in there come searchable but what are your favorite cookbooks that have influenced the way that you write them I mean there’s so many uh I mean one of the ones that I think is like one of these old classics I kind of have like a deep love for old cookbooks with no pictures in them yeah yeah uh Marion Cunningham’s breakfast book is that’s a deep cut it’s unbelievable and it’s like you go through like there’s like a yeasted buckwheat pancake in that thing and I was just like damn like sometimes you read a cookbook you’re like do we even need to make any cookbooks ever again because yeah and the answer is yes if they’re not uh you know we’ve we’re pretty covered on like Italian and French food yeah yeah like uh yeah there’s but there’s a lot of other Cuisines that are finally getting their their place in the in the sun um but uh you know uh I mean Marcella hazan’s uh her classic cookbooks are made that’s where like the famous tomato butter sauce comes from that everyone flips out yeah you just let the tomato sauce smell the onion and then you discard the onion yeah why don’t you let it smell it for like 30 minutes yeah yeah and then you can eat the onion by itself and it’s delicious uh no like a lot of those ones are Classics um Lydia basyanic has one that’s called uh oh shoot it’s it’s whatever her Regional Italian cookbook is where you get to like be like oh here’s how to make like spaghetti with tomato applesauce from from alto adige you’re just like cool yeah yeah like those kind of books are amazing I mean Edna Lewis’s cookbooks were like so ahead of their time doing like real kind of Southern Soul cooking that was based around like actually like having the garden yeah and having to grow things to have access to ingredients like that like that kind of stuff’s incredible uh uh Japanese cooking a simple art from shizuotsuji it came out in like 1982 1980 something like that and it’s like the first cookbook showing uh Americans how to make Japanese food and it has like phrases on it like this may sound barbaric but in Japan we eat a lot of raw fish oh buddy wait till you find out what’s coming that’s incredible yeah and he’s got like amazing diagrams of how to skewer stuff and like those recipes all slap so there’s just like that stuff and then like you know recent stuff I mean the walks of life cookbook I was just talking about is incredible um I mean there’s so many so many great books coming out all the time I mean Deb Pearlman does incredible stuff um yeah like all that smitten kitchen stuff I just think you know people who are really getting after it and doing it right are are making special things yeah I think one thing that I think about a lot is the way that um the blog world or on the Internet it’s so much of it is about gaming algorithms and SEO and if you think that the most talented people always rise to the top on the Internet is absolutely a fallacy I I did not hit a triple I landed on third base by working for a company that has a marketing machine I I’m proud of what I do but amazing how many things you’ve cooked that uh that changed your life yeah there were hacks that changed change your life oh my God yeah and uh as loud you do it well no but here’s the thing is every single successive video we put out changed my life more so this will change your life the most each but you know I mean you know what I mean it’s uh it’s easy to oversell on the internet that allowed me to pay child support my child finally loved me because of this muffaletta but with cookbooks something that you actually have to invest time and energy in I do think there’s more of a chance of um cream Rising the top I’m thinking about the word of mouth with salt fat acid heat right yeah I mean I mean samino’s rat was always people always knew her yeah but that book I mean it was very revolutionary for me just in the way of breaking down how to think about cooking yeah um you know and then you know rocketing to having your own Netflix show stuff like that those are the stories to me that you know say that cookbooks are actually worth more than some blog post that was maybe even outsourced to some SEO farmer uh who got paid five dollars to write it yeah hey five dollars that’s uh that’s that’s sometimes better than people are getting so you know that listen that’s fair enough take the gig uh yeah I mean I just yeah I I love them I think that they’re really kind of special and important again like there’s something to being able to have something that you could actually have and access and hold on to and flip through and find I mean these cookbooks you know they’ve got like a hundred plus recipes in them and you’ve probably cooked six of them and now you’re gonna go like Google you know game day nachos again like go through and find like you know like I can make spaghetti with tomato sauce every day of my life and have it be different slightly every time and always be fascinated by it and I just that kind of stuff you dig through these old cookbooks that you have I guarantee you there’s 10 to 20 amazing recipes you haven’t even thought about yet especially ones that don’t have pictures when we write cookbooks we intend on every recipe being as good as we can then later we decide what gets photographed that means there’s amazing recipes with no pictures that you’re just flipping right past yeah and there’s no picture so you don’t have to be intimidated by how it looks when it comes out because you don’t know what it’s supposed to look like so just make it and enjoy it yeah I would implore people I know that so much of even in in your cookbook and so much of modern cooking is focused on like time efficiency and money efficiency and stuff I would implore people like take that effort flip a cookbook to a random page find a dish one that maybe you’ve never even heard of and cook your way through it and really think about it to me that’s a beautiful way to explore the world to explore the views of somebody else I think it’s awesome uh and I love that we are in this cookbook Resurgence and I love that we can be a part of it and I love that maybe one day even mythical write a cookbook is that uh is that on the table I don’t think about it [Music] oh my God what you’re not gonna believe this what Americans aren’t getting enough Seafood in their diet oh my God I know you’ve heard of U.S nutrients of concern you mean nutrients like vitamin D potassium and calcium the very same Nicole and they’re concerning because Americans don’t consume enough for daily goals well this is a disaster hold your horses or should I say seahorses because a lot of seafood contains these U.S nutrients of concern finding easy ways to add more Seafood into day-to-day life can be difficult Josh but it doesn’t have to be now introducing Chicken of the Sea chicken of the sea is an easy way to get more Seafood into your diet by replacing other meats and protein yeah last year a study showed that almost 40 percent of Americans did you say 40 for 40. 40. that’s a lot the number four zero forty percent are looking to substitute meat with seafood and we’re here to help this process Along by sharing some recipes that you can use with your favorite Chicken of the Sea products Josh you like pizza I love pizza Nicole what a terrible question that’s my harder one what about like what you know like pizza Bianca like white pizza I can be convinced yeah okay convinced so you know how sometimes they put like a really fennel sausage or like or like really robust sausage on there you know I’m a robust sausage man you know what I do instead I actually take canned clams like chicken of the sea canned clams and I chop them up a little bit and then I put them on my pizza with Fontina Romano some Italian seasoning and like a smear of ricotta can we talk about how people who say that cheese and seafood don’t go together don’t know how to live I agree I love cheeses they’re on the wrong side of History I don’t get it it’s delicious it’s like a lobster grilled cheese clam Pizza that stuff’s good yeah exactly out of here that’s like one of my favorite ways to incorporate Seafood whenever like I don’t want to eat like meat meat you know what I mean yeah yeah I okay Nicole here I see your clam pizza and You Raise Me One hey raise you well hold on I was gonna say I feel a little derivative of New Haven Connecticut style pizza I got her okay that’s delicious that’s the thing in New Haven Connecticut they make clam pies it’s like a delicious thing don’t they call it clam uh Pizza okay this is a clam yeah they say ah Pizza yeah anyways my favorite thing to do with chicken of the sea products Nicole check this out you’ve heard of buffalo chicken dip of course boom Buffalo salmon dip get out of here it’s all of the flavor of buffalo chicken but here’s the thing the chicken never really stars in that I agree it like it’s totally hidden by all that Buffalo flavor it’s a blank flavor palette it’s hidden by the Buffalo flavor you all got all that cheese in there you know what I’m saying but but you substitute that for some canned salmon you get all the hot sauce in there some cream cheese I like to add a bunch of scallions to mine maybe garnish it with some chives gotta add the green got it you gotta add it you gotta add the green that’s what really cuts through all that richness because I absolutely love salmon with cream cheese right we both who doesn’t bagels and locks come on you take canned Sammy mix with cream cheese make a little canopies this is like if the canopy just sort of elevated all the way to that big game day eats you know what I mean go Birds I feel like it’s good hot or cold too when I say go Birds I’m referring to the chicken of the sun which are actually fish I don’t know if you knew that bits I’ve heard of the past because you know what I like to do I take hand sardines and I cut them up super fine and I kind of fry them a little bit so they turn into like little fishy salty delicious bites of meat and I use that kind of like as a relish or condiment to put on like a baked potato I top my salads with it with a little bit of herb and olive oil like bread yeah you’re making like fish croutons I literally instead of bacon bits I used fish croutons and it’s really good that’s super smart yeah I can tell people about canned sardines I feel like we should they get a bad rep because I mean we’re talking canned seafood here we love eating a lot of it but sardines to me have been neglected for too long I think I I love canned sardines and canned mackerels actually really date like if you make a like salad out of it like like a mackerel salad with some olives and capers and like roasted red peppers sign me TF up I take them sardine straight out of the can I put them on a cracker and I drink so the oil I’m serious it is just an absolute delightful snack but the point is with chicken of the sea it’s easy to swap in delicious Seafood snacks and meals and there’s a wide variety of options to incorporate into your busy lifestyle like eating sardine straight out the camera chicken is wild caught products contain Omega-3s and lean protein which are key to it that makes Seafood a great post-workout food it’s got protein for your muscles sodium and calcium to replenish what’s lost in sweat and often electrolyte minerals like potassium so let me get this straight chicken of the Seas range of products are a natural source of Omega-3s many nutrients of concern and an excellent source of lean protein that can be swabbed into many meals exactly Nicole so what are you waiting for visit chicken of the sea.com to check out all their products and for recipe inspiration [Music] all right no we’ve heard what you and I have to say now it’s time to find out what other wacky ideas are rattling out there in the universe it’s time for a segment we call opinions are like casseroles [Music] no normally you would come in okay so we’re gonna do a one two three opinions are oh was that yeah so we’re getting a one two three a bit sorry one two three and then go yeah sorry it’s gonna be a silent go okay one two three opinions are like casserole but that’s okay hey do you like babies that’s great news because if you go to mythical.com you can get yourself a beanie we have them available in black pink Olive and heather gray and I know what you’re saying are those cable knitted which they sure are the Olive and heather gray ones are the other ones or not unfortunately we simply don’t have the technology to do cable knit in Black uh there’s a there’s an m some people don’t want the cable knit don’t don’t shame them no I’m not wanting cableness what we’re saying is we have options if you would like cable knitted I thought this was a knit positive podcast We’re In It positive man well we’re more like more like neutral anyways point is go to mythical.com to get the new beanies uh they really are great I’m wearing one right now Maggie can we do that in post you didn’t say where you’re wearing it are you ready to get into some voicemails let’s do it uh hi hi my opinion is that every single sandwich is better made out of tortilla than any kind of bread don’t know how that strikes you guys but yeah that’s my opinion what about a wet sandwich what about a wet burrito man burritos mojados that was a huge part of my childhood are we calling those sandwiches what a burrito yeah no no I I feel strongly that burritos and tacos are not sandwiches yeah so so he’s saying like a Reuben sandwich right if you if you swiss cheese corned beef Russian dressing sauerkraut he’s saying would be better instead of on rye bread tucked into some sort of burrito tortilla situation maybe even griddled and I don’t know that I disagree with it this is sacrilege I mean so you’re saying so in that case it’s you’re turning into a burrito and not making it a sandwich correct so you’re saying he doesn’t just doesn’t like sandwiches this man doesn’t like sandwiches and I think that’s kind of beautiful you know he’s dialed in his own tastes yeah yeah dude I mean I’m a big believer in doing whatever you you like for yourself and making it making it your own so if you prefer it great be my guest I will say that as somebody who grew up eating I don’t want to eat an Italian sub in a tortilla no no no that’s a wrap at that point which is depressing yeah uh raps are depressing because by calling it a wrapping on a burrito you’ve admitted that you’ve deviated from the original intention and I don’t like that I was recently reading about uh the the Dunkin Donuts wake up breakfast wrap and apparently the egg has 12 ingredients in it egg has three letters in it but their egg has 12 ingredients yeah how much sodium sulfate can you pack in there go to Duncan to find out this episode’s been brought to you by Duncan’s new wake up breakfast wrap uh I grew up eating a lot of PB and J’s like a call to action like wake up breakfast around wait uh PB J’s and tortillas do not work I think this negates though the peanut BJ the peanut BJ the peanut BJ in a tortilla you know it feels good at first because you think it’s but then it just starts gushing everywhere and it’s not great yeah yeah I I I think uh like anything else it works for some things better than others yeah next you remember that MTV dating show that was really sexy thank you hi Josh and Nicole oh you gotta call the hotline I love your pod and I’ve listened since the beginning the reason I’m calling is because every time I see Josh use medal on Teflon my head explodes oh yeah yeah my old body cannot take this kind of stress she’s correct Nicole please keep Josh in line Nicole how do you feel about this years of entertainment here’s to many more bye I love somebody berating me and then telling me how much they love me yeah well because they care about you staying alive longer oh fair enough yeah I you know I I mean how are your teflons getting scraped up or are they looking good still no so they’re getting pretty scraped up and um what we do is we we tend to buy pretty cheap pans and use them in the mythical kitchen and part of that was because we recognized that most people aren’t cooking on Le Creuset they’re not using stainless steel so we wanted to use you know the cheap nonstick stuff that people at home generally cook on um and so we did that but also uh yeah sometimes I just have a metal spatula and I don’t want to like call for a stop down in the middle of a shoot and I would also do this at home I’ve also seen you finger whisk because you couldn’t find a fork so yeah that’s correct and that’s legit how I cook at home all I can do Noah is offer people a window into my life and if I if the Wooden Spoons are all in the dishwasher because Julia doesn’t believe in hand washing dishes you know uh thanks uh then yeah I’m gonna use metal on Teflon and I’m gonna deal with the consequences do I think it’s good no so yeah so you agree it’s not good but I don’t like the way that I am yeah yeah I wish I could change yeah it’s like uh it’s like a like a cigarette Smoker’s rationale it’s like the doctor who smokes cigarettes like a chef who uses a metal on Teflon you know and I would not begrudge Dr Kennedy for smoking cigarettes that’s his prerogative yeah you know my therapist is probably not that great at taking care of herself yeah almost all therapists I know are pretty naturally worse than others at doing that sometimes calling them into question yeah that being said you are trying to teach people how to cook yeah in theory you know what I mean um what’s the deal with metal on Teflon is it does it cause cancer though that’s the thing well I guess one’s bad it has to do with I think the coating underneath the up top layers when you scrape below it I think whatever is in there is what you’re not supposed to be getting into you so I think once you see scratch marks but I also think the technology is changing and it could be super like old information um you know it’s like how how your mom still thinks that uh that fat is worse than sugar yeah listen I just there’s so much information I mean one’s mom no no no no man my mom’s long dead um but I a thing I think about a lot is that so many people talk about if artificial sweeteners are giving you cancer and killing you if it’s seed oils if it’s all this stuff and they’re stressing and meanwhile the World Health Organization comes out and says like if you eat processed red meat once a week you’re 10 times more likely to die of colon cancer and everyone’s like that can’t be it so let’s go back to the aspartame you know like I feel like we have a lot of this information out there that don’t that do us really simple things like you talk about more fiber Less meat and then people are worried about well less and better is my kind of meat philosophy sure yeah yeah is you know it should be of a of a high quality and uh it should be way too expensive and therefore you don’t do it as much and you start learning how to use weirder cuts and any amount of my art reaction significantly increases your risk of cancer like that’s the other thing man chard meat that is the free radicals created from that like this stuff is peer reviewed yeah to actually increase cancer risk I’m not going to stop searing mistakes yeah you know what I mean just to eat some boiled beans and go to bed funny how calling them boiled beans makes them sound a lot worse yeah how else are you cooking a bean yeah you’re just gonna microwave them I guess simmered uh I will try to stop using metal on Teflon it’s not gonna work but I’ll try uh yeah so my opinion casserole is that food Wars the anime has a deeper level of respect and love for food than most cooking shows damn I cannot have you ever seen food Wars the anime I’ve not I’ve not seen food Wars the anime um but it does true I’m gonna be honest if you are assuming that the level that the bar for cooking show is having respect for food is high I think you’re making the wrong assumption there um I also I get like uh I mean uh you know like yes there’s some great food content out there but like I’m very opposed to this like this deification of chefs through uh these like Beauty Glory shots of chefs doing all this stuff and like Francis malman saying that he’s such a genius that he’s allowed that she would eat out his wife like yes because what it does is it is it makes people think that cooking is for geniuses and not for people correct and I think that that is not the message we want to be giving people yeah yeah I think so his stuff’s on gold bellies so yeah you look at like the David Gelb stuff right he did a chef’s table and then he there’s a lot of criticism criticism about that deification of chefs right which also let them act with impunity you tell somebody he’s a God and then they think they can do whatever they want to people and not pay their workers and stuff like that and it’s obviously Case by case like one of the people who I love get to get highlighted on a show like that like Sarah Minnick in Portland Oregon with lovely’s 50 50. that’s uh it’s just that’s really exciting when someone like Sarah minico I think it makes I think the best pizza in North America in my opinion that she gets to now have lines out the door every day because people are discovering her food um so like in those cases it’s really really cool yeah and she has a deep a deep love for food and I think a lot of people who are featured on on these shows too but um yeah have you seen the movie burnt Bradley Cooper produced by Gordon Ramsay and Mario Batali I did not oh well you know about it though have you seen the television show Kitchen Confidential starring Bradley Cooper based on the Anthony Bourdain Memoir I’ve actually never seen it I think I think they’re on YouTube now they lasted briefly uh that’s a whole rant I want to do I tried to do a write an oral history about what Emerald had a sitcom on NBC and uh what I couldn’t get enough people to talk about it yeah he had an emperor he had a sitcom in NBC oh my God that’s how big he was back then I wanted I I also had an oral history that I I pitched the eater and got it approved and then everybody I talked to was like oh we we have an NDA from MTV that lasts for a lot of years oh wow it was about MTV tried to do their version of Top Chef it was called House of food and literally after four episodes it got uh it got canceled and only was airing in New Zealand because a male contestant threw a toaster at a female contestant and a TV critic was like I can’t ethically write about this yeah point is a lot of food TV does not love food and the movie burnt Bradley Cooper it literally goes on this rant raises you know chef edgelord and he’s like I don’t want you to eat my food I want you to eat my food and never want to eat again and she’s like oh God this is the most embarrassing thing I’ve ever what was the letter where John Favreau was like how good of a chef do I have to be for Scarlett Johansen and Sophia regard want to have sex with me uh yeah that was the movie called chef and apparently it was good enough for both I mean that’s that’s how good of a chef I am I love he makes sandwiches all right one more hello my name is Charlie all right hey Charlie I’m from North County San Diego shout out Josh hey Oceanside that’s my opinion is uh or one of the foods I eat is I take some cottage cheese and I put some Cholula in it and then I mix it up and I dip Cheez-Its in it like it’s chips and dip it’s one of my favorite snacks thank you guys love the pot did you say he picks cottage cheese I think he picks cottage cheese no he’s in the field he dips his Ladle into the cottage cheese Bush cottage cheese Cholula Cheez-Its dipped in it uh sure that’s go for it I uh well it’s fun remember what cottage cheese was like the go-to health food of the 80s I grew up on it that was like my cottage cheese and a half a grapefruit and you’re like you’re you’re all good to go what’s something else I think about too along those lines is I ever had a friend who used to have cottage cheese with salsa oh interesting because salsa is one of those Foods that’s really good for you but almost never gets served with something good for you yeah correct correct so like that guy he was right there hot sauce great yeah cottage cheese supposedly great I don’t know if that’s true or not but cottage cheese supposedly healthy got a lot of protein the Cheez-Its which are admittedly delicious you know that’s that’s your uh you gotta dip a carrot in there or some how about a celery this to me is just um fancy restaurants have like the whipped ricotta served with their bread plate I mean that’s all he’s doing you know he’s taking a farmer’s cheese he’s serving it with a lovely you know uh toasty baked cracker got a lot of those Myriad reactions in there a little bit of that lacto fermented you know hot sauce to sort of cut through all that fat that protein those carbs I think this is a really lovely dish it’s like my my wife has a bit about uh how everything’s Farm to Table yeah like where do you think it comes from correct what’s the amount of time between farm and table for it to be called Farm today was it is it must have no stops between the way it can’t it can’t go driver can’t take a piss it can’t go to a processing plant and it turned into a Cheez-It I I there’s the Smart and Final right by my house that just says Farm produce and I was just like where come on man where is it coming right in and out though has like rules it’s like yes it must be a 24-hour Drive well they also own their meat processing plants right yeah yeah yeah so that’s interesting you know they’re trying once I was in a CVS and I saw that they had that the sign for the aisles and they listed wine and then below it they listed fine wine you go I feel like that was uh you know when you you like start a paragraph and like you don’t you just want to add another sentence to make it look bigger I feel like that’s what CVS did with that aisle they’re just like wow we got another slot open it’s uh it’s yeah it reminds me of uh of writing uh writing a cookbook sometimes so sometimes you just got to get the words on the page man uh Noah thank you so much for joining us man such a pleasure tell the people where where they can find you well uh there’s uh the Youtube channel Don’t Panic Pantry which is uh that’s I got a lot of great content on it we’re very excited about that show and then of course by The cookbook Don’t Panic Pantry cookbook uh I think out now when this comes out and get it in there as fast as possible because you know the pre-sales in that first week of sales really matters a lot for for everybody and the industry and all these things and it’s very helpful if you if you buy it and I think it’s very good I’m very proud of it I also think it’s a very good cookbook uh everybody if you pre-order Don’t Panic Pantry no it’d just be an order now it’s out everybody when you order Don’t Panic Pantry send Noah a copy of the screenshot and then he’ll send you a personalized video from him and his baby or uh just tag me and I’ll repost it oh yeah that too that too we’ll see y’all next time [Music]