Smash burgers are just a trick to put less meat in our burgers. What’s next? Smash fries? Smash milkshakes? No thanks. I’ll take my all American Black Angus cheeseburger with a side of freedom fries. Sir, this is a Chili’s. This is “A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich”. This is “A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich”. Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what? That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. What? Welcome to our podcast, “A Hot Dog is a Sandwich”. The show where we break down the world’s biggest food debates. I’m your host Josh Scherer. And I’m your host Nicole Enayati. And Nicole, my voice is somewhat gone because over the weekend I was screaming at WrestleMania. That’s fine. Yeah, shout out to friends of the show, Becky Lynch and Seth Rollins for performing valiantly, and the reason I sound like I just hit puberty yesterday, when in fact- Did they win? No, both did lose the, yeah, the belts. But wrestling isn’t real, so. What is real? It’s like, it depends what you mean by real. It’s like saying, you know- It’s like staged. …”General Hospital” isn’t real. It’s all just a show. It’s all planned out and it’s all scripted. But you know, it’s… So what is it? So what happens? Like people are just comfortable like giving their title away? I think a little bit, but yeah. It’s sort of like a negotiation in the pre-process, right? When like the writers and the producers- It’s theater. It’s theater. Oh, wrestling is absolutely theater, but it’s also sports because they’re flipping around and they’re, it’s brutality ’cause they’re throwing each other through tables. Seth Rollins wrestled the Rock in the Rock’s first match. Oh. In eight years. That’s really cool. And I, for at least 12 minutes, they were outside of the ring going all around Lincoln Financial Field in Philadelphia, just smashing each other’s heads into railings and stuff. Wow, so did you have a lot of fun? Oh, I had so much fun. Was this like your vibe? This was absolutely my vibe. And I’ll tell you what’s even more my vibe. I found out recently that Philadelphia is the world’s leading consumer of Twisted Tea. Mm. This is not a Twisted Tea ad. I love Twisted Tea. Oh my God, I drank like 15 Twisted Teas throughout the weekend. I could drink 15 Twisted Teas throughout a weekend as well. I flew back from Philly this morning and I saw a Twisted Tea at like a Hudson News and I almost bought a Tallboy Twisted Tea to drink for breakfast. And I didn’t because I’m a responsible adult, but that’s not what we’re talking about at all. Okay. We’re talking about, we are talking about smash burgers. Mm-hmm. Nicole, it is the craze that has been sweeping the nation for probably the better part of the decade at this point. Yes, smash burgers are huge. They’re here to stay. They were once from the past and then we lost our way and we started making big fancy gourmet burgers with arugula and truffle aioli on them. And then people realized, “Gimme the fattiest ground beef you got, “smash it into a griddle, “put it on a grocery store bun “with some ketchup, mustard and pickles. “And that’s what makes us happiest.” And cheese. Oh, and cheese, and cheese. A smash burger without cheese. It’s like visiting France without going to Paris. I would really love to just go to Marseilles. I know, right? Bordeaux. Bordeaux, oui, oui. And Nice. Oh. Oh, oh, oh. I haven’t been to France in a million years. I went once, it was fun. Yeah. I don’t know. It was fun. It was okay. Burgers, do I think that they’re overrated? Is that what you’re asking? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Smash burgers, are they overrated? No, they’re so, they’re so damn good. Thank God that we steered away from these thick burgers where they’re pink in the middle and they’re bloody and the blood seeps into the bun. It’s not blood. Whatever, whatever, heme, heme, like, who cares? But I just don’t love it. Like, I love the crispy lacy edges of a smash burger and that juiciness from, because a smash burger is also juicy. Well, it’s not juicy, it’s fat. It’s greasy. It’s greasy. It’s greasy. But I bet you, I bet you if you ask like the average person, a juicy burger versus a greasy burger, they wouldn’t know the difference. I agree with you entirely. Just seeing something drip down to their elbow is like their idea of like juiciness. You know what I mean? So I think smash burgers are delicious and awesome and good and I like them a lot. I will say that the- Why are you laughing, Meggie? Do you call her Becky? I said Meggie. I heard Becky. I was like, “Got a new producer over here named Becky.” No, God forbid. Any burger that’s done well is gonna be good. Any burger that’s done poorly is going to be bad. Right, I’ve had bad smash burgers. 100%. Same, same, same. There’s a couple different kinds of smash burgers, I think. And so if we really sort of break it down, you’re talking about the greasiness factor, right? Yeah, they always have the grease. 100%. Like most people when they’re making a burger that you would serve medium-ish, medium rare, whatever, which is like the thick boy burger age. These half pound patties. Are you still ordering burgers medium rare? Not medium rare. So, and according to FDA all ground beef should be cooked to 165, which is well done. Yeah. Because when you, you can eat steak tartar safely because all the bacteria stays on the outside, it doesn’t penetrate through the meat. Right, right, right. Which is why a lot of people will, especially in like Korean food, they’ll sear it or they’ll just cut it, they’ll sear it and then generally cut it off. Mm. Killing the bacteria, make sure none of it penetrates. But when you grind meat, you take all that surface bacteria, you grind it in the middle. So technically I don’t think restaurants should be allowed to serve medium rare burgers. You can like sign a waiver at certain, like a Denny’s. Wait, what? Really? Yeah. One of my chefs from school, actually Mitchell, remember Mitchell? Yeah. I don’t know if this is legal for me to say or not, but one time he went to like, on like a road trip with his family and they stopped at a Denny’s and he was very particular about having his burger medium or medium rare. So much so that he went to the guy at Denny’s, the server and said, “Hey, I don’t want my burger “cooked to a certain temperature.” And then Mitchell was like, and then the guy was like, “We can’t do that. “Like we have to cook it to this temperature.” And Mitchell was like, “No, I will not eat it. “Bring out your manager.” Or something like that. And he had to sign a waiver to prove that he wouldn’t get sick from the Denny’s medium rare Burger Classic, just harassing Denny’s servers to do things they’re uncomfortable with. I love Mitchell, he’s best. No, that’s great. He’s the best, he’s the best. What I’m saying, when you make a thick burger, you don’t want a super high fat content. If you’re say only cooking it to 145 or 150 degrees because then the fat’s not gonna like render. Render, yeah, sure, that makes sense. The thing that makes smash burgers great, and not all smash burgers are cooked with say a 70-30 blend, which gonna be super, super fatty. But it is best when it’s a 70-30 blend. Oh girl, it sure is. Yeah. For a couple reasons. So when you use 70-30 ground beef, a super greasy ground beef, and you really smash it into the griddle, most places use, there’s like custom burger smashers now, but some places- A brick. Just a brick. Yeah. A big old boot filled with sand, that’s what I use. That’s the American way. Or just like a spatula. But you see some people like, they’ll really take the spatula and they’ll smear the edges of the burger. Yeah. Like super thin. Yeah. And then with 70-30 beef, the fat physically renders out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And makes like little cobblestone- Pockets. Holes, it’s pockets. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is how you get those super lacy edges. So all of those, like, you know, glutamates are being formed with that mired reaction, that heavy crust that you’re smashing into the griddle. And so the meat turns into like lace and it’s almost a little bit crunchy. There’s that kind of smash burger, which, I don’t know if I’d call that like a capital T true smash burger, but then there’s some others that are just like, this is a very thin burger that could even be like 85-15 or 90-10. Yeah. A lot of fast food burgers are actually sort of like emulsified with the fat and they’re a leaner than you think they are. So it makes it harder to get that lacy edge that crispiness. Correct, and then you just have this kind of like thin burger patty. Like you go to an In-N-Out even, right? I was at In-N-Out two days ago, Man, it’s just… It was so good, oh my God. But do you consider that, you don’t consider that a smash burger, right? I do, I do. Of course I do, yeah, yeah, what do you mean? It’s not like… It’s super thin. It’s super thin, but it’s not like smashed and smeared into the griddle and really getting that like, heavy deep mired crust. It’s got a good sear on a burger, which any burger should. But I would say I think it errs more on the smash burger side than say, I don’t know, like a McDonald’s burger. Sure, there’s like a continuum here, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There’s a continuum. I don’t love that really crispy, lacy burger. It is not my favorite for like a somewhat specific reasons. Okay, tell me a reason and then I’ll counter with with why I think it’s good. It’s the same reason I don’t love like burnt or extra crispy bacon. Okay. Like to me this is a meat. Okay. Or even almost the reason I don’t love fall off the bone ribs. I think a rib has to have a chew to it. Okay. ‘Cause I think that’s how the texture of it is best enjoyed. Mm. Okay. I think when you carbonize ground beef that much and you get it that burnt, that crispy, that lacy, you sort of lose all the character of the beef, right? Interesting. I love… Losing the character instead of changing the character. Well, that’s an interesting point. I’m out here speaking in normative binaries, you know? Yeah, yeah. It is an entirely different experience. It is. But in terms of a burger, I want something that is like sumptuous and soft and wet and I want the crunch to come from like… The lettuce, A lettuce or a pickle or- Okay, sure. Or onions. Sure, I understand. I want the beef to be just like a soft little bit of crisp in the outside, a little bit. But to me, when you’re like full on thin, air hockey disking them burgers, I think you’re like losing so much of the texture of ground beef and you just turn it into carbon, man. That’s really interesting because I think whenever you have it, like as a whole, when you’re talking about really great bun, really great sauce, really great pickles, really great cheese, really good meat. Not all really good meat, crappy beef. Yeah, yeah, it’s generally cooked. But well cooked, like smash burger, lacy burger. I think that combination of flavors is to die for, I think it’s a delicious expression of burgerness. And I think it does a good, I think it’s good. And you eat it, like when the sauce seeps into those lacy bits, you say yourself, one of your favorite textures in the world is fried foods that are dumped in sauce. Ah, she knows, she knows me. Fried, think about it, you’re eating fried ground beef, albeit, yeah, it is beef and it’s crispy and it’s really, it can be tough at times, but soaked in that sauce with pickle juice and like the cheese blanketing over the top, American cheese at that, really, really blanketing over the top. Getting velvety, not melty, but velvety with the bun. I think it’s just a really pure, delicious expression of food, more so than like a backyard burger. Because do I love a charbroiled burger that’s like just the faintest bit of pink in the middle? Little softball of just kinda round. Sure. No, I don’t, no, no, no. I hate that. I don’t like that. I refuse. I’d be willing, I would prefer to eat a patty that was pre-shaped and thrown on the grill instead of a hand shaped one by like a random dad at a barbecue. 100%. Because it’s more, ’cause I think the edges cook a little bit better. It cooks more evenly, and I think it’s a more enjoyable eating experience instead of that softball that they just throw on and they put like three like hash marks on it, call it a day. I think there’s a special place in hell for people to complain about free food. But I was recently at, let’s not name this friend’s little, like backyard barbecue. And I saw him grill up burgers and you’re shaping the patties themselves. And you can see him like start to shape it in his hand and it’s kinda like a UFO shape where it’s just real bloated in the middle. Any chef knows, right? Yeah, yeah. That when you start with a burger patty, you do the old thumb trick. Thumb trick, yeah. Or you just press the middle out because it’s all gonna sort of like… Yeah, come together. Yeah, and it’s gonna cook unevenly. And I saw this go onto the grill just looking like a UFO, it was like a ravioli. And then I was like, “That is gonna shrink to being “a third of the size of the bun.” It turns into like a pepperoni cup almost. Oh yeah. And it just kinda like domes up. Oh, and then they’re like, “How do I get this “to cook without burning it? So that could be like, that’s the amateur side of like the thick boy burger spectrum, right? That I don’t think anybody wants. Well there’s also like actual like thick boy burgers, like on average, how much would you say, like an average smash burger weighs? Like a quarter of an ounce? Is that or is that, I’m sorry, like two ounces? I don’t know where that came from. Two ounces, that’s what In-N-Out burgers are. Yeah. So if you get, we grew up with like a quarter pounder being like the big burger at like Burger King, Whoppers is a quarter pound. A quarter pound is how much? A quarter pounder, four ounces. Okay. A quarter pounder at McDonald’s, like their bigger burger. Yeah. Because McDonald’s burgers are a 10th of a pound. They’re like- Wow. …little meat pucks. Yeah. But you mentioned In-N-Out being like smash burger adjacent. Yeah. I think we have these like adjacencies. It’s on a continuum. I just thought about my favorite sort of thick boy burgers that I’ve had in my life and one of them, Father’s Office, the place that kicked off. We love Father’s Office. I ate it recently and I was- Their flavor profile is different, huh? It’s not even a flavor profile. It’s the actual cook on the burger. So if the one side of the spectrum on a smash burger is just like burnt, charred, crispy, crunchy edges, super thin and lacy, the other side of the thick burger cooking spectrum is what they do at Father’s Office. The Father’s Office in 1999 is sort of credited for kicking off this fancy burger movement in America. And now every fancy restaurant gotta have some sort of $26 burger on there where they’re making like an onion soubise or something. But Father’s Office, one, it’s on a long roll, which is already weird. It’s weird, the jam is weird. It’s like a bacon onion jam. The blue cheese is it, what is it, Taleggio? Taleggio cheese. Is it Taleggio? Dressed arugula on it. Yeah. And then they cut it in half. But the cook that I had on this was so much more akin to a seared tartar that you’d get it like a bistro in France. Whoa. It’s to the point where it was, I mean it was almost blue-rare. I think it was just raw, I should have sent it back. But you know how I am for advocating myself like that, I don’t do it. Yeah, I would’ve done it. So there’s that. And, it was so unfortunate. Mm. Right? So maybe there’s like more cooking error involved in big thick boy burgers. Yeah, but to be fair, it’s also really easy to screw up a smash burger. Like speaking from experience, the first time I ever made a smash burger it did not come out well, because I didn’t know when to press it down. Yeah, yeah. I didn’t know how much fat to put in the pan, if any. Like there’s a definite, like there’s a recipe and a method to making the best possible smash burger. But I do think the error with smash burgers is less than like with thick burgers, I’ll give you that much. Yeah. There is a difference between like, you can really screw up a thick burger, but you can kind of screw up a smash burger. I think I’m really biased when it comes to the smash burger, thick burger paradigm because I do really miss this fancy burger era. It was such an exciting time, Nicole. I was like 16, 17 years old just discovering the magic of food. Where did they sell trademark thick burgers? Was that Carl’s Jr? So Carl’s Jr. They came out with like a big old boy burger that’s a third of a pound, I believe. Holy crap. So six ounces. And they originally called it the $6 burger because at the time… Remember the ads. At the time, you would go to like a Denny’s and a burger would be $6. Yeah. You’d go to like a Johnny Rockets and the burger would be $6. And they were like, “This is a hefty fast food burger.” That only probably costs $2.79 at the time. “That eats like a $6 burger.” But then very quickly inflation happened, and then the actual $6 burger that was making fun of $6 burgers became more than $6. Oh man. So they pivoted to- $5 foot long scenario. Thick burger. Yeah, it really is a $5 foot long scenario. Never hammer yourself into a price. But one of the reasons I like that thick burger movement is because I associate it with creativity, right? Like Father’s Office. You mean like the toppings on top? The toppings. Mm, okay. Places that were putting arugula and truffle aioli and you know, a habanero cured bacon and all this stuff. Yum. I know, right? Ketchup Leather, shout out to Plan Check. Oh, Ketchup Leather. All these fun things. They weren’t doing it on smash patties. And then this whole revolution happened where all these smash burger popups started happening across the nation. A dime a dozen, Dime a dozen. And they were all doing very simple burgers, right? Burger sauce, onions, pickles, ketchup, mustard. Like the classics Didn’t even want lettuce on it. A smash burger with lettuce is weird. I don’t think it is, In-N-Out’s great. That’s smash adjacent. Smash adjacent. I think you can put lettuce on a smash burger. You do? What about tomato? Tomato’s weird. Right? Why am I weird about this? I’m also weird about tomatoes on my burgers in general. It’s interesting. But also, you don’t like tomatoes on your burgers. Do you like roasted tomatoes on your burgers? That is true, but I also love In-N-Out and In-N-Out without tomatoes doesn’t taste right to me. Oh really? Hmm. I did have a smash burger that I think changed my mind on all smash burgers. Can I guess where it’s from? Yes. Will I get it? No. How do you know? I don’t remember where it’s from. Oh. And I feel so bad. I feel so bad that I don’t. And no, it’s a dude, he used to be in PR and now his operation’s outta Long Beach and I can’t remember the name of it, but they did a colab. Standings? No, not Standings, what is it? What’s the other one? Standing Room. Not Standing Room, no, no, no. It’s a popup, it’s not For The Win. I don’t know, but he did a popup at Bee Taqueria where he paired up with like an Argentinian, like Asador chef. Wow. Like an Argentinian pit master. Don’t even get me started, okay, great. So this was an incredible colab. It was an Argentinian pit master who like smoked lamb, and then he gave that smoked lamb to the taquero at Bee Taqueria and he turned it into like lamb birria. I’m looking at it right now. And then they took that lamb birria and they put it onto a smash burger and served with a side of consomme. Proudly Serving? Proudly Serving, Proudly Serving. I’m so sorry for forgetting your name, but that to me was like, it’s like the ultimate ascension and creativity in a burger. And it ate like a burger. And it wasn’t this big old thick patty that was distracting and let the birria shine. You got to dip it into the consomme. I can see. And getting that smoke and the sumptuousness from the lamb with the melted cheese, with the crispy burger patty, I think really, really lent itself to a unique experience as opposed to it just being like a big old thick hockey puck. You think if it was served with a burger that was, let’s just say, three times the size, it wouldn’t have been the same experience? No, I think it would would’ve been much worse. Yeah. But I think that is why when it comes to simple burgers, I would rather have a thick boy patty. And when it comes to like fun, complicated, fancy burgers, I would rather have smash patties. Why am I the opposite? Well no, most people are the opposite. Oh, so you’re just an Edge Lord. I’m just an Edge Lord. Dude, I’m on the Reddit threads. Go search my Reddit history, I dare you. You’re a contrarian, right? Do what you did to Ken Bone. My friend called me a contrarian the other day and I said, “That’s not me.” Yeah. Most contrarians are just a-holes, you know what I mean? Yeah. But do you know what I’m talking about with that? I do, but I don’t agree with you because I think that the large puck of meat allows for more flavors to be introduced into it without overshadowing the meat, I think that that- But then you run into an architecture problem. No, you don’t, you just push it down. Are you a big baby? But no, but that’s even… You’re being a big baby. Why are you being such a baby about it? I’m not a baby! You are. I’m not a baby! I’m a man, I’m a grown man who lost his voice and sounds like a baby now. I don’t ever like really remember hitting puberty. What do you mean? Like, there was never a point in my life when I was just like, “Oh, this is puberty now.” I just like have gradually become older. Like you didn’t find like a hair somewhere and you’re like, “Okay, I’m a boy now.” I had almost no body hair by the time I went to college. Josh, that’s impossible. I didn’t have to shave my face. Armpits? Hardly any armpit hair. Like a little bit of armpit hair. I’m gonna ask you a question, but I don’t think it’s appropriate because you’re my boss. Yeah, none. No way! Yeah, it’s like pretty much none. What? That’s not possible. So with a thick burger patty, right? Like you can… With girls, you just get your period, right? Is getting your period the same as like hitting puberty? I don’t think so at all. I’m gonna step in as a man and say I don’t believe that’s… Meggie? I thought so, about the time… Yeah, when you get your period, you’re- Can you Google that? Can you Google that? And then we’re just gonna go and, look at us being Joe Rogan over here. Hey Google. Google it. Hey, Google, “White parakeets are endangered.” Thick burger patties. Meggie, Google why, be like, “Teen boy never hit puberty?” But, “Teen boy never hit puberty, become man?” And see what comes up. Thick burger patties, I think… When you’re smashing the bun down, then you’re sort of negating the architectural purity of that burger, right? There’s no such, can I tell you something? Yeah. There’s no such thing as architectural purity in a burger. I don’t, I’m a big architectural purist when it comes to every sandwich. You’re not a purist, you’re the antithesis of a purist because you like bottomings instead of toppings. Reactionary. Yeah. Wait, no, no, but bottomings can, I think, be pure. I think bottoming is a pure act to the surface to a burger. You know what I mean? Are you sure? I think there’d probably be historical precedent for that. I don’t think we got only top burgers. It’s Adam and Eve… You piece of crap. Just kidding. But every sandwich. Every sandwich, right? Yeah. I had a many a Philadelphia cheese steak. Yeah. This weekend. I had a cheese steak in place called Angelo’s. Was it so good? And I was there with normie friends who aren’t like into food. They enjoy eating good food. Okay. But like, if they eat a good cheese steak, they, “Yeah, it tasted nice on my mouth.” And then I’m the one that comes in and I’m like, “Well, Angelo’s is using “a significantly crustier bread than say “an Amaroso or Alessio’s roll, right?” And what they do is there’s like more steak in Angelo’s. It’s just like got more heat capacity, which means there’s going to be more steam, which is not only, one, going to melt that delicious Cooper Sharp American cheese into a lovely sauce, but all that steam, they then wrap the sandwich double in butcher paper. And so it creates- And foil? No foil, just two layers of butcher paper. Almost the same way a brisket would be wrapped. Mm, okay. So then that steam actually softens the bread. And so like the bread’s a little too thick and crusty for a good cheese steak roll. But then all the steam from the inside’s- Gotta let it sit. It’s like both sort of eating at the interior of the bread, creating that like bread goo and then softening the exterior bark of the bread. Making it the best cheese steak I’ve ever had. Can I just say bread goo is an underutilized thing in food. But isn’t it the best part? Yeah, but you get bread goo from a smash burger. You do, you do. Of course you do. If anything, you get better- You get a better bread goo. You get better bread goo. Because what you really have is bread grease. Always, dude. The grease makes the goo. There’s a saying in Farsi called, “Nunsi kabobi.” Which is the bread underneath the kabob and it’s the best bite of food. But is that also a metaphor for the younger sibling being better than the older sibling? Yeah, not better, it’s they’re ready for marriage now. Oh, oh, I didn’t know that was part of it. So when do girls hit? Yeah, but no… Google, “31-year-old man hit puberty?” Josh, Josh. See when it’s gonna happen for me. Josh, we can’t do this right now. I don’t know man, I got my T levels checked. They’re not like, yeah. Mine are so high. You wanna switch testosterone levels? Okay, let’s do it, one, two, three. I wish I had your testosterone levels. That’s such a sick stash. Bread goo, 100% better on a smash burger. You don’t even get, there’s so much toppings and bottomings on like a thick burger, you don’t even get, all you get is a bun. Maybe warm, maybe not warm, maybe not even toasted, with sauce on it, doesn’t contribute to the bread goo index. Yeah. But a smash burger is so compacted and everything is so together that it has no choice but to bread goo. You know what I mean? There’s no if and or buts about about it. Like it has to happen. And it really contributes to the burger eating experience. You know what burger has the best bread goo, and it’s not quite a smash burger, but it’s like spiritually similar? Gimme a second, will I know it? Yeah, it’s like maybe the, it’s like the first kind of, it’s like maybe the first like ever sort of like major burger chain in America. Oh hmm, not Cuckoo Roof? If I said like John Cho. If I said like, who was he? He was like part of Obama’s administration somehow. Why are you looking at me? I don’t know. Meggie, you’re the resident, did you figure out why a 31-year-old man hasn’t hit puberty yet? You’ve hit puberty, you have armpit hair. We don’t know that. Yeah, but it’s pretty recent. And chest hair. I’ve had, so I’ve gotten exponentially more chest hair from 28 to to 31. What burger are we talking about? White Castle, “Harold & Kumar Go To White Castle”. Oh. Kai Penn and John Cho. White Castle has the best bread goo because they- Oh my god, I love White Castle. They put the freaking bun on top of the beef while it’s raw. Yeah, while it’s raw. It’s the best. So it steams together and, but I think that is probably another factor that lends well to smash burgers. The fact that it all, when you wrap it, it all steams together. Together. Better than like a thick burger, which generally has to rest or you’re getting all the juices seeping through it. Right, like a steakhouse burger. Have you had like a steakhouse burger? So, smash burgers, right? Yeah. You’re using commodity beef. You kind of can’t use two coarse of a ground otherwise that fat pocket’s gonna be too big and it’s gonna fall apart. Yeah, the laciness won’t happen. So it’s sort of like, by definition has to be a quote, unquote, worse ground beef. That’s okay. Which, no, I agree, I agree. And I’ve, I did not expect coming into this podcast to be like a smash burger lover. But thinking about the creative smash burgers that I had, I like the pure stuff. It’s just not something that I’m gonna like seek out very often. I’ll always seek it out. I want you to gimme something. I want you to put like roasted green chilies on it and I want you to put all that garlic aioli. I’m so the opposite. Just like bun, cheese, bread, sauce is like my jam, 100%. But that’s what I want with a thick burger, because then you can use like great ground beef. Remember that ground beef that we got from that fancy butcher shop in LA, Gwen? Mm-hmm. It’s like they’re dry age steak trimmings. Yeah. You form that into like a half pound puck and you cook that perfectly medium. Sure. Slap that on a good bun with like cheese and a sauce. I don’t even, frankly, I don’t even need cheese. Oh, I need a, cheeseburger is my favorite food ever. Number one favorite food of all time. Is it really? I love cheeseburgers. I don’t think I knew that. I kicked over your water bottle, it’s fine. It’s illegal contraband in the office now. They banned plastic water bottles in the office. Yeah, yeah. If you… And I bought 12 of them for personal use. Because I don’t give a damn! Oh yeah, the woman who walks into restaurants and demands plastic straws bought a bunch of plastic straws. Yeah, it’s, don’t talk to me. I’m drinking out of an old soup can. That’s your fault. I’m drinking out of an old soup can. Do you wanna know why you’re doing it? I’m a protest man. Because you love attention. You love it, you crave it, you need it. Red two filth, am I right? Oh my God, did I scratch you with my nails? You moved too fast. Oh, the white guy hosting a podcast wants attention. Who would’ve thought? I tried to slap you but my nails got you. Manhattan Tavern. Oh, I really wanna go. That is a great thick pure burger. That, if it were a smash burger, would be significantly worse. I haven’t had it so I can’t judge it. But I think that smash burgers are having like their Renaissance moment and we should just accept it and ride that en vogue wave. Well, smash burgers are here to stay. One, from just seeing them all around and people love them and I’m just the weird contrarian being like, “Oh, it’s too crispy.” But Jack in the Box had a recent really big win. Did they? In January they introduced the Smashed Jack. I’ve not yet had it, I’ve heard very good things. I kind of want to go get one today. But they, complete soft launch. They didn’t do any media coverage of it. No paid ads, and they sold 70,000 in the first day. They sold out in two months. Wow. And Jack in the Box is sort of like betting their future on smash burgers in a way that no other fast food restaurant has, right? Like Burger King was always, the whole bet was on the charbroil. I’m looking at the photos and they ain’t smashing. Well that’s what I’m saying. They’re thicker. Is that just smash burger appropriation? Yeah. You know? They’re just capital, you know what they’re doing? They’re just doing a classic California burger and the edges are just a little bit scalloped and they’re selling it as a smash. No, I don’t think there’s any actual smashing going on. Do you think that then is the death nail for smash burgers being a cultural institution? No, no, just because Jack in the Box is doing this doesn’t mean that they’re overrated. I think that’s how it happens though. I think that’s how it happens. I think we’ve found out that- Stop. …smash burgers are overrated and they are a deceptively skilled burger to make. And that people are gonna find out once they hit the mass market and the Jacks in the Boxes people will lose interest and we’ll go back to our true form, the thick eight ounce, medium rare E. coli causing burger, baby. “Ooh, why is it still cold in the middle? “I don’t like it.” Extra spinach. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Nicole, how’s your social battery been doing lately? It’s okay. You know, I recently, this week I’ve been to about three events that I was considering. I was like teetering, do I wanna go? Do I not wanna go? And I ended up saying yes to all of them. I’ve been doing that thing. You know when your garage clicker battery starts getting low? Sure. And you’re clicking and you’re clicking harder and sometimes the light lights up, but you can tell it’s not all there? Yeah, of course. I’ve been like rocking in that mode. Okay. For a while. But the cool thing is it doesn’t always have to be that way. And using tools like therapy, it can help you figure out a way to be more self-aware about that social battery. Yeah, I think it’s about finding out what the right amount of socializing is for you in particular. You know, finding that seesaw, finding that balance, and then what you do to recharge after being in those situations that you didn’t necessarily wanna be in. Yeah, and it’s all about having the tools to actually deal with that, right? So if you’re thinking of starting therapy, give Better Help a try. It’s entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Find your social sweet spot with Better Help. Visit betterhelp.com/hotdog today to get 10% off your first month. That’s Better Help, H-E-L-P.com/hotdog. My whole life I’ve always been interested in languages. I would always learn like little things in Spanish, little things in French just to get me by, ’cause I just thought it was really interesting to know little things. And personally I really wanna learn Arabic. You know I’m Persian, Farsi’s similar but not the same. And I just think it’d be really interesting to learn what some of my favorite songs are saying. That brings me to Rosetta Stone, the most trusted language learning program available on desktop or as an app. And it truly immerses you in the language you want to learn. My favorite part about Rosetta Stone is how simple it is just to use the interface. It’s super easy, and as someone who is not necessarily the most tech savvy person, I am really, really good at understanding it. 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Visit rosettastone.com/hotdog. That’s 50% off unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your life. Redeem your 50% off at rosettastone.com/hotdog today. Josh, how good are you at saving money? God, I wish I was better. How do you like budget for like grocery shopping and stuff like that? Do you even budget for grocery shopping? I am all vibes, no budget. Oh really? Okay. But I will tell you, the thing I spend a lot of money on is meat. Oh my gosh. You gotta budget, it’s all so expensive. Story of my life, but I found like a hack. What’s your hack? Okay, I started ordering ButcherBox. It’s a good hack, dude. That’s a great hack, dude. Yeah, ButcherBox is incredible. The value you get for the high quality meat that they send you is like bar none. I’ve never had steaks so fresh, so delicious and so, so cheap, it’s incredible. Oh, I 100% agree. Especially when you go to the grocery store, like, I don’t know a better term for janky meat, but sometimes you get some janky meat. You get some janky. You gotta ask them to smell it first. You gotta smell it first. ButcherBox, I mean it comes frozen, it comes shipped to you in a box. It comes right to your doorstep. But it is absolutely super high quality and it is incredibly affordable. I know, with ButcherBox you get peace of mind knowing you can easily find high quality meat and seafood you can trust. They have wild caught seafood, pork raised crate free, free range organic chicken and 100% grass fed beef. Dude, I bought a whole chicken from the grocery store the other week, just like rotten. Straight up, went home, opened it up. No way. And Julia was like, “Return it.” I’m like,” I’m not just gonna return a loose chicken.” Anyways, you can get all that, right? You can get all your ButcherBox delights delivered right to your doorstep with free shipping. Plus they have recipe inspiration, guides, tips and hacks that you can use with the delicious meat they send. Today ButcherBox is giving our listeners free ground beef for life of your membership, plus an additional $20 off your first order. Use my link butcherbox.com/hotdog and use code “hotdog” to get free ground beef for life. Plus $20 off your first box. That’s butcherbox.com/hotdog and code “hotdog”. Like I just, the chicken was out of the package. You should return it. I was walking with a sopping wet chicken in my hands, I’ll get thrown out. You’re wasting money. It’s weird, I don’t want security to tackle me. Do you think you actually have the time to make a big batch of sliders for a crowd? You don’t, you’re lying to yourself. Well good news is Sporked rank the best frozen sliders so you can be your own favorite caterer. Well, all right, Nicole. We’ve heard what you and I have to say, and now it’s time to find out what other wacky ideas are rattling out there. It happened. Wacky. It’s time for a segment we call “Opinions Are Like Casseroles”. Opinions are like Casseroles. But before we get to your second favorite segment on the show, it’s time for your first favorite segment of the show. That’s right, it’s “Review A Review”. My favorite. The segment where we try and goad you into giving us five star reviews on Apple Podcasts. Goaded. For what? Goals unclear, but we like them. This one is from @smara522, five stars. Now Nicole, I think we got a little bit of a bias on our hands here. I’m into it. ‘Cause the person who’s picking these reviews to review, well, they’re sitting right next to us. She’s not next to us, she’s across the way and she’s making eyes at me to read this. I didn’t pick this one, this was Mindy. I asked Mindy. Okay, Meggie, okay, great. Okay. Meggie and Mindy sound really similar. Have you ever seen them in the same room? I haven’t. Never, never. “Great podcast, but it needs more Meggie.” The people love Meggie. “Great podcast, super interesting topics, “awesome hosts, and always a good vibe. “You might not think you’ll learn anything new, “but Nicole and Josh always have “some cool fact or story that you’ve never heard. “Listen to the podcast, watch “Mythical Kitchen”. “You won’t regret it, five stars.” Five stars, five stars. I agree. Meggie, you’re welcome on the pod whenever. Aw, I won’t, but thank you. Okay. Hi guys, this is Chris. I just wanted to say something real quick. It’s not really an opinion, but it’s moreso something that I think you guys should try. I know a lot of people like my friends and stuff, don’t like french fries on their sandwiches. But being from Pittsburgh. Primanti Bros. We do french fries on sandwiches and french fries on salads. The Pittsburgh Salad. We have a sandwich up here. It’s called “The Pittsburgher” at Primanti Bros. And it has coleslaw and french fries on it. And I just think that you guys should try it. I think it is an amazing sandwich, but I guess it would be an opinion here of, do you think- I lost the plot? …that fries should belong on sandwiches? Love your guys’ podcast, thanks so much. The first thing you said was an opinion. “I think you should try this.” The second thing when you said it, “I’m gonna tell you, an opinion” was actually just a question, which I love for that. I love for that, I love for that so much Primanti Bros, you been? No. Why not? What is it? Primanti Bros is a, I believe, a mini chain out of Pittsburgh where as he said, they put french fries in coleslaw as like a defacto condiments on their sandwich. And it is really, really fantastic. I never had it. But I went to Primanti Bros and that’s the first time I also said with a straight face to a man, “Gabagool.” And then he said, “What?” And I said, “Capicola.” He goes, “Okay.” But I got a Capicola and egg sandwich. You got wrecked. I’ll tell you why it works. I don’t think french fries belong on every sandwich, but the hot dog that we did with Pinks, those french fries that are covered in ranch dressing, nacho cheese, bacon and jalapenos. Right, right, right. There’s certain like algebraic functions that cancel out each other in food. And so like the jalapenos, the ranch and the fries cancel each other, right? Because that’s a perfect, okay, think about this. That’s a perfectly composed bite of food. What is it? Jalapeno, french fry, ranch dressing. What about nacho cheese? Okay, well let’s stay, let’s try just nacho cheese, jalapeno, french fries. Okay. That’s a perfect bite of food, right? Yes. And then you’re left with hot dog, bun, ranch and bacon. Pretty good bite of food. I’d eat that. Right? Yeah. So then you put that all together. That’s two perfectly composed, balanced bites of food. Okay. Right? Nothing is throwing off the mouth. I mean it’s, the second one is not perfect. It’s not perfect. Well that’s why I was trying to put the ranch on the fries with the jalapeno. Oh, is that what you were doing? Because then you just get a bacon cheese dog, which is also great. Oh, okay. I see what, I didn’t know what you were doing at first. You’re just being a crazy wacky guy. Well, I’m trying to build the algebra here. Mm. So then you take a Primanti- I am not good at math. Oh, okay, well I am, so if we could keep talking about this. Are you good at math? No, I’m not, SAT math is, I’m good at basic math. I’m only good at sandwich math if I’m being honest. Yeah, hmm. Sandwich architecture, sandwich math. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, sandwich poli sci. I think french fries on sandwiches is a great idea. Gatsby from South Africa, great sandwich. I think french fries need, if they’re on a sandwich, they need something to cancel it out. They need a cold, a crunchy and acidic. Okay. And that’s what I believe. I don’t agree with that. Have you ever heard of the chip butty from the UK? I was just gonna say what an abomination of a food. Oh really? I mean, I don’t know, it’s just… Have you ever had it? I’ve never had one. You just think it’s bad? No, I know what it’s going to taste like exactly. No you don’t, have you ever? Do you put a condiment on it? What is going on with this butty? Butter, butter. Oh God, no. I think there’s butter on it. Eugh! Eugh. What’s up Josh, what’s up Nicole? Hey. This is Davis calling from the sunny state of Florida. Love the name Davis. So I grew up in the Florida swamp and I grew up eating this swamp thing called swamp cabbage. Swamp? Yes. That’s right, it was just completely normal for me. Swamp cabbage Did he say swamp? Actually it’s the heart of the palm tree. I feel like out there in California, y’all call it some fancy thing like “Heart of Palm” or something. I love heart of palm. But here, I mean they’re everywhere in the swamp. So we would just, you know, get the heart of a palm tree and cook it up with some special seasonings and there you go, swamp cabbage. So what are your thoughts on it? Thanks. I’ll tell you right now, I eat heart of palm, pickled heart of palm like candy. I just open up a can and I eat it and it’s so good. I put in so much stuff I love, do you feel like Jewish people love heart of palm more than other people? Because I see- Wait, yeah. I grew up eating hearts of palm and I don’t know why. You grew up eating it, right? It’s just in the super, in the Jewish supermarket. Like there’s rows and rows of it. They’re in glass jars, they’re in cans, they’re in whatever, they’re, whatever receptacle. I love heart of palm. And since I’ve started living on my own, not on my own with my husband, since I started living with my husband, I’ve been buying it more and I’m happier ’cause it tastes so good. Pickled heart of palm is my S-H-I-T. I did not realize that heart of palm and swamp cabbage are the same thing. I didn’t know that either. But when I was in the Louisiana Bayou they were talking all about swamp cabbage and how they make like fried swamp cabbage, swamp cabbage stew, stuff like that. Yum. Yeah, did not realize it was heart of palm. So funny that swamp cabbage didn’t take off as a name, ’cause I personally love it, but no, that’s really rad. It also, I believe it’s like an invasive species. It’s called like the sable palm, I think. Yeah, sounds, I mean I have only had heart of palm in that pickled way. Same. I’ve never had like heart of palm, like cut directly, excuse me, from like the, the heart of, from the palm or like chopped up in like a sand, in like a stir fry. I’ve never done that before, but I’m sure it’s delicious. A lot of people using hearts of palm to make like a little vegan ceviche riff, which… That’s true, I actually did that one time. I made vegan calamari by using heart of palm. Yeah, it’s great, I’ve had it fried like in a vegan Po’boy instead, but even- Yum. Not in a vegan option, I just, I love fried vegetables. I love spicy acidic vegetables. Yeah. Yeah, hearts of palm, AKA swamp cabbage. Underrated. Fantastic. Underrated. Great opinion. Hi Josh and Nicole, my name is Lori. I’m from North Carolina and my weird food opinion is that when I worked at Subway, I had a coworker who wanted me to try a soft pretzel with cinnamon sugar on it. And she wanted me to dip it in the nacho cheese that you would usually dip the salted pretzel in. Makes sense. And believe it or not, it was actually really good. Yeah. So, thanks. This makes sense to me, I get it, I get it. I don’t know how we got here, but I get it. It’s almost the only flavor combination in the world that I do not enjoy. That’s silly. It’s umami, right? Cheese is loaded with umami. Yeah. And then sweet. Yeah. Like I don’t even like a miso chocolate chip cookie. Oh. Oh well I’m sorry. No, Nicole, no, no, you were so excited about it. Now I feel like I brought the mood down. I’m so sorry, I didn’t know. You kind of did. Hey, no, come on, I’m sorry, buddy. No, you look sad, right? I don’t like that, I don’t like you being sad. I like when you’re happy, it makes a better podcast when you’re happy. Also the nacho cheese that comes with a pretzel isn’t even like that seasoned. So it’s just kind of just like cheese. It’s kinda like gooey salt. Just a gooey salt. Yeah. Yeah. And like it’s really good if you just try it. You got your chewy sweet, you got your gooey salt. You’re happy, buddy, right? Got your little yellow salt goo out there. It’s really good, just try it. I never- You’re scared, you’re just scared. I’m not scared, I’ve tried it before. You haven’t tried this before. I’ve never tried it before, I lied to you. But what I’ve tried, hear me out. I clocked you, I clocked you. Cinnatwist with Taco Bell Nacho Cheese. Oh yeah, have you tried that? I don’t like it. It tastes like styrofoam. No, I like the styrofoam taste of it. No, but you have- It’s like shrimp chips. No, listen, you have to try it like with the pretzel ’cause it’s like soft and it lends itself to the cheese, it works, you, it works, I’m on your side, it works. There’s like that foot smell, right? The foot smell of cheese. What’s problem with feet? No, no, I love feet, I love cheese, right? But people say that cheese smells like feet, it’s that particular sort of like funky umami that you also get from miso, so you get from several fermented soy things, you get from fermented vegetables, but also with the like glutamate taste of MSG, I once tried to rim a margarita glass with MSG and it was awful, it was awful. Of course it was. That lingering chicken broth taste with the sweet- Duh! …is terrible. Yeah, but you’re talking about combinations that just, they’re rooted in like nothing. It’s just, it’s word salad. You’re just making word salad. Is that like Pittsburgh salad? No, that’s a meatball and french fry salad. Yeah, buddy, yeah. You can’t, no. I’m telling you, I understand this and I value it and I think it’s a great flavor combination. I feel like we work at Subway right now. Remember a couple- I feel like we both own a Subway and you’re just not seeing me on like margins. Same store sales are so low in Subways right now. Oh my God, they’re getting destroyed by Jersey Mike’s. Destroyed. Remember that time I was talking to you about foods that are sort of lost to our childhood? Yeah. And I was like, “I haven’t had just a hot chocolate in like a decade.” One, had one at WrestleMania ’cause it was freezing. Oh yeah. And it was the greatest thing I’ve ever had. Mm. Another thing that I have lost to the sands of pre-adolescence is soft pretzels. I have almost no room in my life for soft pretzels. Oh my God, no room? Well there’s room, I don’t make room for soft pretzels. I guess, there’s room for anybody, anything if you make room for it. If you had a soft pretzel, let’s say tomorrow, do you think it would help you reconnect with that childlike wonder you’ve been missing out for the past few years? And then I could finally hit puberty by reconnecting with my childlike wonder? Yeah. Yeah, no, I have no other better guesses. I could like go see an endocrinologist, but I’m not gonna do that. Go see an endocrinologist. And her name is Auntie Anne. I was gonna say, I see one, she’s great. You should see an endocrinologist, life’s short. Last opinion, Meggie. One more, Meggie, come on. One more for the giffer, one more for the giffer. Come on. Meggie. This next one’s a little bit emotional. Get ready. Oh God. Oh my God. Oh no, ooh, okay. Hi, my name is Amber from Illinois and I don’t really have a hot take this time around. I shared some previously when you were text only, I was the not liking foods that tastes of the color purple, and then mixing the Mountain Dew and Pepsi to make Pepsi Dew. More like Pepsi Don’t. But really I’m calling because you guys meant a lot to my brother Jason and he passed away at the end of September and he’s the one that introduced me to you guys and the whole Mythical entertainment crew. But he especially loved you guys and what you guys do. So I just wanna say thank you and know that you did make a difference to somebody. And during his last few days he enjoyed watching some of your videos in the hospital. So thank you very much Josh, Nicole, and all of Mythical. Oh, that’s very sweet. Thank you for sharing that story. Thank you. That’s very kind. And may your brother’s memory be a blessing and we appreciate it. And I’m gonna cry now, I’m gonna cry now. It is, I don’t know, I tend to be cynical sometimes. Like I tend towards negativity but so many times when we’re doing anything like we did the book signings recently. Sure. Or meet and greets, and you have a lot of people that are telling you how much you mean to them. Yeah. And it’s almost a little bit strange because it’s like, I don’t have the opportunity to have that reciprocal relationship, right? Like, I didn’t know your brother and I’m sure he and I would’ve gotten along great, right? And been friends, but it’s strange having that sort of one sided relationship. And I used to be a little bit cynical about it, and then I started just sort of accepting the fact that like we, and all the things that we all do here mean a lot to people in very real ways. Yeah. And I don’t know, it created like a lot more healthy of a mindset and it made me, I don’t know, look forward even more to coming into work every day. Good. To do things like this, knowing that, you know, on the one hand it could just be mildly entertaining you on your commute and on the other end of the spectrum, it could be, you know, your last days and you want some comfort in a hospital bed. And I don’t know, there’s something really beautiful about that. And it’s something that I straight just promised to like not take for granted in the future. And that’s something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately. So thank you for sort of like, reifying that in my mind and yeah, hey. Good job, proud of us. Proud of us. And we’re proud of all you out there for tuning into A Hot Dog Is… There’s no good way to wrap it now. Wrap it up. No, honestly, that was really sweet and I appreciate it very much and thank you for sharing that. And thank you, I don’t know, I don’t know, it makes me sad. That’s something I’ve been thinking about a lot recently, you know? Yeah. You know? I was talking to Matt Pat about it too. I was like, yeah. Yeah? It’s a really cool, unique position to be in. Yes, it’s a very unique, awesome position to be in. And I’m happy that we can create refuge and like a space of, I don’t know, escapism and like just two buddies talking. It’s like special, like two buddies talking over something silly like Jack in the Box versus, what’s another restaurant? Oh, my puberty? No, no. Talk about my puberty? No, like talking about something as asinine as like Burger King versus Jack in the Box can make someone smile. Yeah. Just ’cause we’re two friends. And that was also something that, I mean, I think you and I have like, thought consciously about. Yeah. You know, in a way that there was a point where we were like, “Do we like structure this podcast “so it’s like a point, counterpoint, debate “and we’re like keeping points and at the end “we decide who wins?” Even the subject matter being more serious or being a little bit darker. Yeah, it’s like not, we’re two people hanging out and we invite you to come hang out with us and be part of the conversation, so. Yeah. Means a lot. And on, I’m gonna say your part. Say it, it’s fine. And on that note, thank you for watching “A Hot Dog is a Sandwich”. We got audio only episodes every Wednesday and a video version here on YouTube every Sunday. And if you wanna be featured on opinions or “Like Casseroles”, yeah, give us something sincere and emotional. That was really sweet, that made me feel really good. Yes. Give us a ring and leave a quick message at 833 Dog Pod one. For more Mythical Kitchen check out our other videos. We have really fun videos like “Last Meals” and “Fancy Fast Food”. And Josh does this really cool thing where like he gets like groceries from one store and then he gets them from another store and then he makes the meals, and then like Jordan from Sport comes and tastes them. That’s actually, that’s a really fun thing we do. I like doing that, see you all next time. See you next time.