This episode is presented by Pepsi. A hot dog is a sandwich. That deserves a Pepsi. Caesar salad is from Mexico, dammit, not Italy. You’re telling me Olive Garden’s out here slanging Mexican food? Si, which means yes, in both languages. Come on, Nicole, you know you can’t be mixing Mexican with continental. This is a hot dog is a sandwich. Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal. So what? That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. Welcome to our podcast. A hot dog is a sandwich. The show where you break down the world’s biggest food debates. I’m your host Josh Scherer. And I’m your host, Nicole Enayati. And if you didn’t recognize that last line, that was a dramatic reenactment of Luis Guzman playing, uh, Radimus. It’s the sous chef, or maybe line cook, from the movie Waiting, which is, I think, the greatest food movie ever made. Yeah, why don’t we, like, what, what, do you know how Trixie and Katya, like, watch movies together? Oh no, I don’t know about that at all, I’m sorry. And they’re, like, really famous podcasters. I know who they are, though. They’re drag queens. And I think we could also do that, but, like, watching Waiting, and, like, Clerks, maybe. And like, Dogma, or like, Red Dawn. Oh, I was gonna say regular, regular movies. Josh Peck and Chris Hemsworth. Oh no, I was just talking about like, regular, like, Slice of Life movies. Like, we could do that with that, and be like, yeah. Oh, like the original Red Dawn, in the 80s. So that’s where the communists invade? I know what Red Dawn is. But you don’t want to watch it with me still. Because it’s not Slice of Life y enough. Waiting is Slice of Life. Potential Slice of Life. But they had to, in the remake with Chris Hemsworth, where his Australian accent, it’s really tough. It’s peeking through. Yeah, because there’s a line in the trailer where he goes like, This is, this is our home. We have to defend it, but he’s so Australian that he literally goes, come on, this is our harm. And, uh, it’s really tough. And Josh Peck is just smoldering and plays like a hot high school quarterback. It’s pretty funny. A good movie, but they couldn’t do, uh, uh, Russians. Cause at that time it was like, you know, I don’t know, 15, 20 years after the wall fell. So what was it? It was, I believe, North Koreans, which is a perennial, a perennial movie baddie that you can always just sort of throw in there. Yeah. You know, which I think is fun. But that’s not what we’re talking about today at all. Uh, what we’re talking about today is, uh, where do these dishes actually come from? And this is born from a somewhat organic conversation that we were having because people always like to throw out the fact that, did you know Caesar salad is actually Mexican? And that is a very, very loaded. Yeah. And whenever we’re talking about the country origin of a dish, it becomes a very loaded thing to say. Yeah. Because I’ve said this a lot, the idea of the modern sovereign state, especially the ones that we know on the globes that we grew up with, which of course are always changing. Shout out to North Macedonia and South Sudan. Yeah. You know, Timor Leste, a lot of different countries spring up, uh, out of a lot of different necessities. But it always gets really complicated with. food. So we’re going to go through a couple dishes today and talk about all the nuances of where quote, unquote, they are from. So basically we’re going to talk about like, what is it called? Birthright citizenship, juice, just soil. Is that what’s known as juice soil? Like, I don’t know what you’re talking about. So, you know, whenever like you’re born in a country and then you get citizenship of that country when you’re born there. And that’s, that’s a very American thing. We’re gonna find out if the dishes that we have accumulated are either from, they get citizenship of the country they were born in, or if it’s not, if it’s just from the people that have made it. And then also how much that actually matters in terms of, uh, of, of what we do with it. I have a feeling. It’s not going to matter at all. No, I, I don’t think so. I think a lot of this is, it’s really semantics. It’s the way in which people frame foods. You know what I mean? Like, you know, like when someone asks me, where are you from? I’m always going to say, oh, I’m from L. A. Yeah. No, no, no, where are you actually from? Do people say that to you? Do people go, where are you actually from? Yeah, of course. I know that’s like a common, like, uh, is that racist? No, no, I, well, I didn’t see it through the lens of racism. I would just say I’m Persian and I’m Jewish. Yeah. And I’d be like, okay, any other questions? You know, like, what do you want to ask? What else do you want to know? But no, I never saw it as like racist. I saw it as genuine curiosity. And maybe that’s just the way I see like the world, I guess. Maybe I just don’t see it as like, I just don’t get defensive like that. I don’t know. I’ve never seen it as like, uh, where you act like, actually, the word actually doesn’t like hurt my feelings, I guess. Yeah, I’ve never been where are you actually from because I say I’m from Orange County people. Oh, yeah For sure for sure, um Caesar salad is a really good one to start off with Yeah, it’s the best one because Caesar salad was invented in Tijuana, Mexico TJ TJ baby wanted to go by though. You’ve never been to Tijuana. I have never been to Tijuana Oh my god when my sister There was like 23 she went to Tijuana and my mom’s like, don’t go to Tijuana. And I’m like, son, I was like, I’m going to go to Tijuana and have a great time. But she came back, like, I’m scared to send your frogs, man. You got to get in a hamburger. No, I really screwed up. I really screwed up not going when I was younger. But I think I’m going to I think I’m going to go. I’m just me and David are going to go. You should go. OK, so do you want to? I grew up going to Tijuana because when I was living in like San Diego, if. If you know anything about geography, San Diego and Tijuana are, uh, they’re effectively border each other. Are they 90 minutes, like, driving? Not even 90. I mean, if you go to the south part of especially San Diego County, like, my favorite restaurant in San Diego County, uh, well, there’s a couple, but, uh, Tuetano Taqueria. It’s in a spot called San Isidro, which is San Diego County. It’s, You could throw a rock over the border to Mexico. It’s literally the last town and Tijuana is basically the first major city, uh, Northwest in Mexico. So like the point is Tijuana is right across the border from America and Caesar salad was indeed invented there by Cesare Cardini, AKA Caesar Cardini, what a restaurant there called Caesars Cardini. It sounds very Italian because he was very Italian. There’s this big wave of Italian immigration to the U. S. in the, uh, mid to late 1800s after Italian unification, right of Garibaldi, all that stuff. And so, uh, they were Italian American bootleggers who were in California. So they, so they were. So they were Italian American? Well, so no, they were, they were Italian. Italian Italian. But they were, they’d been living in San Diego for a long time. Got it. And there’s, San Diego still has a little Italy that rules. No way. There’s a lot of fun, old school, uh, Italian restaurants in San Diego. And so they open a restaurant there, they’re slinging alcohol. Prohibition gets passed. They’re like, Mmm. Yo, we can go, it’s a 20 minute drive, cars were pretty new at the time, but they were like, we can just go across the border at Tijuana. And so they opened up their restaurant in Tijuana, which was an Italian restaurant called Caesars. And then there’s the whole myth of there were like Navy guys because Camp Pendleton is a big Navy base. That’s right by the border. Right. And so the myth is there was a Navy guys that were eating there and all the chef had already left and they wanted food and he whipped together a salad. With an anchovy dressing and romaine lettuce called Caesar salad. So Caesar salad was invented in Mexico by an Italian chef who had been living in America. Is this dish Italian? Is it American? Is it Mexican? Does it matter? Well, let me think. Were there similar salad dishes like the Caesar in the Italian food canon? Oh, that’s interesting. Like, if you are to actually, yeah, go to the origin of how these things are made. So, um, the Caesar dressing, right? It’s, would you call it an emulsification? Depends. Not always. When I’ve seen, well, I’ve seen videos of the Caesar salad made at Caesars. Like, I’ve seen the dramatic reenactment of it, like with the big bowl and all that stuff. And they mash in the bowl and it sometimes turns out as an emulsification. Sometimes it’s more of like a Oily, saucy, yummy situation. You know what I mean? So I think, I think it depends on who’s making it, but it’s, it is egg yolks and olive oil and then cheese and all it, and what’s the cheese on it? I’m sure, but they use any hard cheese. Well, I’m sure they just use any hard cheese. That was there, but I’m just, I’ve never, Oh, a code Cotija. Caesar sounds good, but. I’m trying to think if, if there’s, well, I’m sure those ingredients are clearly Italian in origin, right? Right? I’d say so, yeah. And the, and the lettuce was what? Just like random, like, Romaine? Yeah, Romaine lettuce. Romaine, Roman. Does that have any link to it? I have no idea. I never thought about where Romaine lettuce comes from. I mean, think about, think about making a futon. But like, California was growing the best lettuces, uh, in like the world at the time. Like, California was In Mexico, by proxy. In Mexico, yeah, of course. For sure. And so, like, that seems like a pretty, like, native ingredient, um, but I’m sure they were eating lettuce and, uh, Native ingredient? I love this. This is so much more, I think this is so much more insightful than I thought it was going to be. I was just like, obviously it’s Italian, but I mean, the Caesar dressing, like, it has, at least it sounds like very Western European roots in terms of, like, At least trying to emulsify oil into egg yolk and there’s, do you put mustard in your caesar dressing? I put, I put a, I don’t think it’s in the classic caesar, but I, You must make it at home. I always make it at home. Um, what do I do? I take an egg yolk and then I use, I always use a stick blender by the way, I take egg yolks and anchovies and lemons. And then I stream in my olive, half olive oil, half regular oil. Smart. I agree with that. Because I think the olive oil can be a little bit overpowering. So I kind of want to mellow it out a little bit. And then I add like a small, like, like literally like half of a teaspoon of Dijon. Just for, just for good measure, salt and pepper. Lemon? Fresh lemon? I said lemon. You said lemon? I think I said lemon. Run the tape. No, I’m just kidding. I’m pretty sure I said lemon, but yeah, there’s always lemon. Garlic? Do you do fresh grated? I do four cloves of garlic. Four cloves of garlic? That’s a lot of garlic. That’s a lot of garlic. I cheat. I cheat my Caesars. I start with pre made mayonnaise, and then I add an egg yolk and olive oil just to give it that homemade appeal. Yeah. And a little bit of flavor. And then Dijon grated, like, one clove, depends how much I make, but one clove of grated garlic, Tons of fresh cracked pepper, uh, and then I used straight fish sauce instead of anchovies. Anchovies weren’t in the original recipe. Um. They weren’t? No, so they’re What did they use in the original recipe? Worcestershire. No way! Worcestershire, and then Alex Cardini, Cesar’s brother, he used whole anchovies and he claims that he actually invented it and he called it the aviator salad because they were like Navy pilots. And then Cesar won out over Alex’s aviator salad. So it could have been called aviator salad dressing. Well, Worcestershire isn’t that anchovy? Yeah, but there’s, there’s like Fermented anchovy in Worcestershire, and that’s why I just use fish sauce because I don’t want to deal with chopping up anchovies, whatever Yeah, but anyways, it sounds like all of these things are some Western European techniques. However Have you ever had have you ever had? enchilada suizas You know what that means, right? Swiss enchiladas! Swiss enchiladas. I think it’s because of the cheese they use, right? They use Swiss cheese or it’s just cream. It’s cream. It’s dairy. And so the enchiladas suizas are in like a cream sauce, which dairy is not, uh, native to Mexico, like same as flour that was brought over by Spaniards. There weren’t cows in Mexico? There were, I don’t believe there were cows in Mexico. I think there were, they didn’t make cheese for a long, long time until, I mean, it was colonized in, you know, 1490s, right? Uh, and then 1500s. Um, and so I don’t believe there was cheese in Mexico before that. A lot of, a lot of the native proteins were like, Gabrito, which is goat, and then like turkey. Like turkey is Pavel! Pavo, pavo, um, uh, turkey is straight up indigenous to like Mexico and that’s how it’s spread around the world. Yeah. And so like, even if you look at dishes like enchiladas suizas or like, uh, pescado veracruzano. Have you ever had that? Is it the half and half? Uh, no, no, pescado veracruzano. So veracruz is, I believe, in like the east, like near the Gulf of Mexico. Um, but it has a bunch of olives in it. I’m looking at Mexico. It’s like a fish with like a sauce of like tomatoes and olives, which reads very, could be Italian, could be Spanish, could be Greek, but it is like very definitively Mexican because the Spaniards brought olives there. So like those dishes, despite having very European ingredients, those are like decidedly Mexican, right? Well, when we go to Mexican restaurants, do we see Caesar salad on the menu? You, mm. We do because we’re in LA. No, no, no. But this is a funny thing you see on menus. What? You’ll see a Mexican Caesar salad. That’s true. Which will have like red tortilla strips, cotija cheese, sometimes like a pico equivalent with some like tomatoes or some sort of like, you know, a jalapeno on there. Frick. Maybe a couple kernels of corn. Frick. Which I think is really funny. And so, where do we, where do we end up with Caesar salad? I’m gonna say Caesar salad is an Italian dish, period, point blank. Italian dish? Do you consider, like, uh, chicken parmesan to be an Italian dish? I think it’s Italian American. I would, I would consider Caesar salad to be, uh, Like, the Italian American dish alongside things like spaghetti and meatballs, chicken parm, fettuccine alfredo, and that’s another one. Do you consider, well, Mexico, do you consider Mexico to be, like, American? Do I consider Mexico to be American? Yeah, I mean, it’s North America. It’s North America. Oh, I see what you’re saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anything, and it’s like, yeah, from, like, Tierra del Fuego to the Yukon Territory. Those are all just American. The Americas. I think when we say American, we have to have a good faith reading that we’re talking about United States of America. Okay, but you consider that a United States of America Italian dish. Yes. Caesar salad. Yes, I think they were, they were vacation, they were in, uh, They weren’t vacationing, they were making money! They were vacationing, but I’m saying they were, it was a short jaunt. They were gonna stay there because of prohibition. But also, if like, any Mexican person wants to claim Caesar salad as being Mexican, if you take tremendous pride in that, do it, man. Whatever. There’s a lot of great Mexican dishes to really latch onto though, other than Caesar salad, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There’s a lot of enchiladas de nopal, you know. Yeah, I think that our lovely Italian brothers that were hanging out in Tijuana just made a great salad. But I don’t think that it’s a Mexican dish. Just because it was made in Mexico, because it was echo in Mexico, it doesn’t mean that it is Mexican. Do you own one of those sweatshirts growing up? Yeah. You buy it at the uh, Venice. Well, mine said, mine said made in Lake Tahoe. Nice. Nice. Nice. Um. Yeah. Even when you look at what is a Mexican dish and what isn’t, you look at something like enchiladas suizas, right, which enchiladas like literally date back thousands of years, right? Tortillas, which are about 10, 000 years old, like we’re talking Aztec, Toltec, Olmec empires in some sort of Chile paste. Chiles were used a lot medicinally as well as in food, um, literally for stuff like pain management, but like that’s thousands upon thousands of years old. And so that predates any like modern conception of what Mexico is. You know, a lot of that is dating back to say like Oaxacan food. So then do you even consider enchiladas suizas to be Mexican alongside dishes that are literally. 10, 000 years older than that, even there’s a fun gap in there to be explored. Well, just because something’s been around for a hundred years now at this point, that doesn’t like negate the fact that it’s from the place, right? But I don’t know. Well, I’m, I’m making the claim that it is an Italian American dish now. Yeah. It is. Does time have any factor in all of this? Because there’s a lot of different. Correct. Yeah, I think what we’re skirting around is the A word, which I think everybody in food kind of hates. Authentic. I hate the word authentic. I think it’s, it’s a very tough line to go down. I don’t know. I mean, uh, the concept of authenticity in food is really tough, and I don’t think we’re gonna solve it in this podcast, but we can definitely, like, Dig through. Chicken parmesan predates carbonara. And that’s fine. That’s the craziest thing, but how many people would say chicken parm isn’t a quote unquote authentic, in an inauthentic dish and carbonara is an authentic dish. Well, I don’t think people, I don’t think people dive that deep into food. I think we do because we enjoy it and it’s our jobs and there’s value in it. But I don’t think people are like, Hey, let’s go get Italian food. Like they’re going to be like, I want to eat. Authentic Italian food from Sicily, from Rome, like, I don’t think people like care that much. I want the stromboli with the gut, with the coppa. Yeah, give me that. Like, like, again, again, uh, you, you can’t like constantly be like that particular about how you want to eat food. In my opinion, you kind of just need to just go with it. Yeah, I think it’s fun to BS about though, you know? Yeah, but for me, I think, I think Caesar salad’s Italian American, period. I think, I think it’s, I, about once every two weeks, I will make a slightly healthier version. I like, I do it in the oven because, you know, I don’t need the oil. Chicken parm? Yeah, I’ll do like, uh, uh, chicken parm and then a Caesar salad on the side. And that’s like the greatest combination. Um, where does, like, popularity in terms of who does it best, Come into play with this. So there’s this, uh, this question of croissants. Croissants. So what is the name of all like laminated pastry? Oh, even like in French, is it Viennoiserie? Viennoiserie. Viennoiserie means like stuff from Vienna. Austria. And so when you’re talking about like croissants, go ahead. Austria. Was Austria hungry? Would’ve been Austria hungry at the time? Yeah. Okay, cool. I believe the The Habsburgs, what were they doing? Ask Keith. Dude, I ask Keith Habsburg, he probably knows. Fair point. I kind of smoked, I got a five in the AP European history test. Not to brag. Not an ap. I was not an AP push. Yeah, I was not an AP. Push. Bang, who is Catherine de Medici? Oh, um, she was Bang. The bloody lady? Bang, what is the dual papacy of Avignon? Oh, I don’t know, sorry. Who are the Bourbons? Um I don’t, I don’t know any of this. I don’t know any of this. I really don’t. But no, so like, croissants, right, we would say are French. Hundred percent. They are French. A hundred percent. But if you, like, go through the actual history, and there’s a lot of weird myths about this, like people smuggling them through tunnels during, like, a Prussian war, um, that’s a whole thing. Who had time to smuggle? Well, it was probably because they got it from the smuggling of matzah. And then there’s some It’s cool whenever you smuggle a piece of bread. Smuggle bread, Smuggle bread, people like that. And then there’s this thing about the crescent shape was, like, a dig at the Ottoman Empire. Oh! You’ve heard that myth. Yes! Sick! You know, there’s a lot of this stuff. It’s all probably not true, but like a lot of those origins go back to Vienna. But if you look at the actual. Recipe and I’ve never been to Vienna to eat a croissant myself and I’m sure Vienna. I went I went to the Austrian Tyrol I’ve been to Austria, but I’ve never been to Vienna. Did you eat Viennoiserie there? Um, I’m sure I did It was a little bit of a blur I get that. Yeah. A little bit of a blur. It was, it was a Contiki tour. I was with a bunch of, speaking of Australians, I was with a lot of Australians. Australians love Contiki tours. They really do. They do. So I don’t really remember. I’m sure I had a croissant here or there, but nothing like legit or like insanely memorable, obviously. Yeah. The OG croissant recipe. I believe Max Miller actually made this on, on Tasting History, but it was not like the French croissant. Was it laminated? It was technically laminated, um, But a poor man’s lamination. It’s a poor man’s lamination. It’s like a crescent. It’s more like a crescent roll. Crescent roll. You read a crescent roll and you’re like, Oh, that’s 18 percent of the way to a croissant. Oh my god. It’s still a delight. Crescent rolls are the bomb diggity. It’s great, but like a, a proper French croissant, right? Like you, when you bite into it and the flakes just explode. Flakes go everywhere. And it’s that perfect crispiness yielding to chew like the OG Austrian croissant. This is our stuff, bro. And a lot of that did happen because of cultural transference from people marrying each other in war and all that. But like croissants, like French or Austrian? French. French, right? They just did it so good. That they can claim it. They can claim it. Yeah. And I think they’re close enough to each other where it’s like, you know, you can give them a Give him the W. Give him the dub. Give him the dub. You know what I think is weird about the Olympics? No, what is it? So like, so like, everyone’s like, U. S. won all these medals and all that, and like, Uh, suck it France, you only won that many. It’s a much closer comparison to compare U. S. medals to like, all of Europe medals. Because they’re much closer in size than the U. S. to any European country. Like, all of Europe is equal to all of the United States? Yeah, and like, we have 50 different countries inside of our country. Yeah, yeah, we do. You know what I mean? Like, they kind of got 50 countries inside their big country. Continent? I don’t, I don’t acknowledge continents as existing. Okay, what’s wrong with you? Why is Europe and Asia two different cont one, even if you count Asia They should be Eurasia! They should become Eurasia! No, no, no, they should be nothing. Pangea lovers! Continents don’t need to exist. Why? Why do they exist? When you say Asia, when people go like, but Asian food, there’s over six, like 60 percent of the world lives in Asia. And there’s like, not that much. Are they talking about Kazakhstan? Correct. Are they talking about Sri Lankan food? You know? Um, but, but anyways, uh, that’s what I think should happen in the Olympics. So. The best croissant I’ve, are you okay? The best croissant I’ve ever had was at Aristocult Bakery in San Francisco. And I just need everybody to know that. If you’re ever in San Francisco, go to Aristocult Bakery and just get their regular croissant and then also get their almond croissant. Because there’s no food better than an almond croissant. Almond croissant. Yeah, almond croissant. I like it more than pan de chocolate. I do too. I’m just not a chocolate guy Also the cold chocolate inside. I’m a chocolate girl, but I don’t care for chocolate in my pan I don’t care for a croissant with chocolate. I have like a pistachio. I think pistachio is the best nut And so I like a pistachio. the best nut ever Is that a new podcast? What’s the best nut? We get this nut. Yeah, let’s get this nut. Uh, no, I think pistachio’s the best. I have the pistachio croissant with like some rose petals on it. From like this Lebanese bakery dude. Um, Tom Holland. Zendaya’s boyfriend. Zendaya’s boyfriend. Spider Man? I just know him as Zendaya. He wasn’t in Challengers, but I thought he could have been. I thought he blew it on us. Well, yeah. He’s like rat hot. Tom Holland was in an interview where somebody asked him, If, like, British food is better than American food, and Tom Holland just goes like, Well, what’s American food to you? And the guy’s just like, Uh, pizza? And Tom’s like, Italian? The guy’s like, Uh, French fries? Well, no, I guess French fries aren’t. He’s like, Yeah, it’s, you know, actually Belgian, but also, you know, kind of French. And then the guy goes, Hamburgers? And Tom just goes, It’s, mate, it’s literally named after a city in Germany! There is no American food. Jiminy. Jim. I’m not doing a good Tom Holland impression. Jiminy. But, I think this is a really good example of something fully, fully belongs to America. I think there has been enough epigenetic shift from the original Hamburg Steak. They probably didn’t say Steak like I did. But, uh, there was, uh, like, A, uh, the Hamburg steak that it is named after, right, is so far divorced. The original recipe is, I think you’re getting from, was it a Hannah Glass cookbook in the 1700s? Okay. For the original Hamburg steak, that was like, you mix ground pork with wine and warm spices and then stuff it into a bung and then smoke it over a fire and press it out. It’s a sausage, right? And so that like, then. comes to America and they’re using beef instead of pork because a lot of German migrants started raising beef in Texas. That’s part of the origin story of Texas barbecue. And so in, uh, Texas, start raising beef. So they start making the Hamburg steak with beef and then they start adding less and less spices to it, uh, as people wanted more purity in their food with a good American product. And then I believe Delmonico’s steakhouse, uh, Is the first one to serve a hamburg steak on their menu and then finally somebody puts it on a piece of toast. You know, uh, Louie’s lunch is credited for it. Um, I think there were some predecessors, but the point is like the original hamburg steak in Germany, which was already a very small, unimportant dish, came to America and was perfected and codified in a way that is then spread out through the entire world, making the hamburger uniquely American. So I think there has to be enough epigenetic shift and enough popularity I agree with you a hundred percent. And I think France did it with the croissant, I think we did it with the hamburger. I agree with you a hundred percent. No notes. That was fantastic. No notes, Josh. I will not be pushing back on anything you said regarding the hamburger. That’s a pretty, that’s a pretty clear cut case. There’s one more. There’s one more. There’s one more that I’m fascinated by. What? I’m fascinated by. Utterly fascinated. Chop suey. Not chop suey. A different, different Chinese dish. Um, oh my god. Let me think about it. Um, yakisoba. Yakisoba. Is that Japanese? I don’t know. Okay, yaki is definitely a Japanese, like teriyaki, yaki means grilled. Orange chicken, man. Orange chicken. Orange chicken. Orange chicken’s American. I think it’s American Chinese. Does that make it Chinese? Does that make it American? So chicken parmesan is to Italian Americans as orange chicken is to American Chinese. I think I would agree with that. But I think orange chicken is probably more similar. To, I don’t know if I’m going to regret this, I’m going to say orange chicken is more similar to, it’s I believe based in a Hunanese dish called citrus peeled chicken. Okay, yes. I think it’s more similarly based to its original Chinese roots than chicken parmesan is to its Italian roots. But you’re calling it an American dish even though it’s closely related to a Hunanese, is that what you’re saying? Hunanese, yeah, yeah. Hunanese dish. And it was invented in Hawaii. Okay. By, I believe a Chinese American dude. Okay. I think, yeah, Chinese American’s just a good descriptor for it, but I don’t, but does that make it American or does that make it Chinese or neither unique people? People, what do you mean? American Chinese people exist. I know American, I was not negating the existence of American Chinese people, American Chinese. I have at least one Chinese American friends. Yeah. Yeah. Anymore. Any more instances of you loving it? Yeah, I got, I got a lot of friends. You know? Well, um, I mean, yeah. I find, I find orange chicken to be a Chinese American dish because it was made by a Chinese American person in America. Because they got the dish from their Chinese roots. Is Spam Musubi American? Yes. Yes it is. What about poke? Is poke American? Yeah. It’s Hawaiian. It’s Hawaiian. That’s tough to call poke American. What else would it be? Well it depends on your viewpoint of like, it’s like poke really comes from very like indigenous Cooking techniques for native Hawaiian people, right? Sure. So like it was a method of preserving the fish. And then like America comes in and like, you know, uh Hello, we are, you are part of us now. We own you now. Yeah, so like you call that an American dish? That’s, that’s wild. Isn’t, isn’t pokey related to Lomo Lomo? Uh, Lomi Lomi? Lomi Lomi. Yeah, so, so poque means to, to cube, and then lomi means to bash. Okay, so poke or lomi means massage, but do is the poque that we are eating now in 2024. The same pokey that we were eating in nine 19 and they were eating in 1951 was before we got it. Uh, well, he, well, before we got ’em before Ann, we sort of like annexed it in like the 18 hundreds with the gold plantations. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. Super messed up history behind it. Brutal. Yeah, I know. They just allowed a fruit dictator from America to rule. I did a project on Queen Leela Kohlani, actually. Yeah. I know, no A push, but a little bit. So no, the poke we eat now that we would think of, right, you go to like a poke bowl shop and they’re putting the sweet soy and the sriracha and the kale on It’s it’s own thing. Sure. Uh, no, that’s actually influenced a lot by Japanese, both fishing technique and culinary technique. So the soy sauce being big, that’s coming from Japan. Also a lot of Koreans, Filipinos, but I believe calling it shoyu even is from Japan using the long line caught ahi tuna. That is all Japanese. So you get like raw ahi tuna with shoyu and furikake, and you would call that American? Would I? Well, again, again, so the name Poké is a Hawaiian. Correct. Poké is a Native Hawaiian word. But in 2024, going to a Poké Bowl shop, is that American? Is it? I mean, there’s a lot of white ladies, you know, in L. A. working the counters, you know, signing up new Poké Bowl and frozen yogurt shops. You ever go to that Poké and frozen yogurt place? Yeah. That’s, now that’s American. You put it with Frogert, that then becomes very American. Sure. But let’s like, do you consider something like a native Hawaiian dish? Especially that has been that has. OK, so a native Hawaiian dish that the that Japanese people are bringing to America. What is that? That’s pretty freaking American, right? I don’t know. What’s more American than annexing a country, than annexing islands, taking their food, having another, another ethnic group come, make it good, and then put it in a strip mall? And then add a random accent over the E in the word. Is that not the most American thing you can think of? Yeah, it’s tremendously American. It’s uh, it’s incredibly depressing. Well, not depressing. You know, it’s, it’s like it’s messed up. It’s messed up. It’s messed up. Of course it’s messed up. We can acknowledge that it’s messed up. From, from where it came and where it is now, the modern poke bowl that you get in 2024 in a strip mall, scooped by Bethany. Scooped by Bethany. Is quite owned by. Is this Bethany Frankel? Is she doing skinny girl poke? Owned by, um, so Bethany scooping it. Yeah, I would say that, that got influences from Japanese cuisine, but its name and origin and predecessor is Hawaiian. I think it’s American at this point. I And then you’re mixing it with a Spanish emulsification and mayonnaise. And then the Vietnamese American made with Mexican grown pepper sauce, sriracha, and put that on everybody. Is sriracha American? I think sriracha is. I think it’s Vietnamese. The founder is Vietnamese, but he’s using like Mexican red jalapeno peppers. So crazy. Named after a Thai island that, the Thai island, they don’t like sriracha. Oh yeah. They don’t like American sriracha. Yeah. They like sriracha panich, the Thai sriracha. Uh, and so, I don’t know. I don’t know. None of this matters. We all eat food. We all enjoy it. But I think knowing the history of it is really, really fun. And I think paying a certain homage to the history, I think it, um, I think it’s nice to know it. Game Recognize Game Reel. Game Recognize Game Reel. You ever see that episode of The Simpsons where Marge I don’t watch The Simpsons. I don’t. I’ve never seen an episode of The Simpsons all the way through. Can I just tell you about it real quick? Marge, um, buys a Middle Eastern food truck. Oh, no way! And they’re eating the food, and she goes, Hmm, what is it? Falafel? And the guy just goes, Crispy balls! Oh, and what is Flavor sauce and that has been burned in my mind So we’re all just out here trying to eat crispy balls and flavor sauce and knowing a little bit about where it came from I Am craving a big slice of pizza and an ice cold Pepsi for lunch today, Nicole What if I told you you have the power to make that happen? I do Yeah And you know how I know that cuz you’re real real smart That’s one of the reasons the other reasons that I had the same dream That you had, except this was a couple days ago, we basically live parallel lives, but I was craving an ice cold Pepsi and a big ol slice of pizza, and I was at the airport, and I was coming back to L. A., and so I, like, really needed some food to get me through that last leg of the journey, and I was on the plane, and I opened my pizza, and the flight attendant came by, and I got the free chips, and I got an ice cold Pepsi Zero Sugar, and I will never forget this beautiful moment. borderline spiritual experience of eating that spicy from the pepperoni, salty, chewy pizza going to the crispy chips and then resetting my palate with ice cold, refreshing Pepsi zero sugar, that perfect amount of acid to just cut through all that fat in your palate and then back to the chewy pizza, crispy chip, refreshing Pepsi, chewy pizza, crispy chip, refreshing Pepsi. And it made the flight so, so much better. My lunch was absolutely saved. I love story time with you, Josh. It’s my favorite. But moral of the story is, Pepsi makes your food taste better. Everybody knows that. So grab a Pepsi Zero Sugar for your next meal, as food deserves Pepsi. Alright, before we get into your opinions a like casseroles, we want to read your opinions about us. This is everybody’s third favorite segment on the show, Reviewer Review, where we try and goad you into reviewing us on everything. Apple Podcast Reviews because we think it might help in some way. Oh yeah. This is a review from HT Sparrow. They gave us five stars and said, a hot dog is an epiphany. It’s a long boy. Let me paint a picture for you. You’re 22, driving home from your last marine biology field lab with the final credits you need to finally graduate community college. It was to see elephant seals in San Simeon, California. Pause. I’ve seen the elephant seals in San Simeon. You have? Mating season? Oh yeah. Brutal. Disgusting. Sounds crazy. It’s where I learned the birds and the bees. It’s awful. Sounds crazy. Back in. You look down and see that you’re dangerously low on gas, so you pull over into the small town on the route back home so you don’t get stranded. After pumping, you decide to get dinner at a local Firestone Grill knockoff. This person’s gotta go. Pause. You’ve never been to Firestone Grill? You’ve never been? Super popular. It’s in San Luis Obispo. They make tri tip sandwiches and other barbecue adjacent things. Santa Maria style barbecue. But it’s like a very Cal Poly San Luis Obispo haunt. Um, and it’s, it’s like, it’s good. It’s not like the most mind blowing food in the world, but they do like really good work. What’s the comparison to here? Um, no comparison because they do like Santa Maria style. Have you ever go to like Handy Market in Burbank? Okay. They do the, the weekend barbecues. No, I don’t hang out in bourbon on the weekends. I’m here Monday through Friday. Bourbon grips. I’m on the, I’m on the West side. Well, the handy market is a comparison. Continue. Your nine dollar grilled cheese? Disgusting. Cell service? Non existent. The only piece of media downloaded on your device is Mythical Kitchen. You sit and eat your awful grilled cheese and listen to Mythical Kitchen as you look out on the Pacific Ocean. You leave that restaurant to new man. I’ve been listening to Mythical Kitchen slash other GMM podcasts for a while, but truly, listening to Josh and Nicole have strong opinions, argue with love and honesty, share genuine culinary joy has inspired me not only to cook more, But care more about the food I make and eat. Pause. That’s kind of, that’s kind of what we talked about with this, this podcast that we just did, you know? It’s just like, care about the food you eat a little bit more. It sort of opens up the world to you in certain ways. And there’s no like moralism to it. It’s just, it’s very interesting. It might spark a little bit more joy next time you’re eating some orange chicken. Unpause. Back in. I cannot recommend this show enough. And I also cannot stress enough how bad that grilled cheese was. Why do places like that insist on making grilled cheeses with brown bread? Pause. I agree with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brown, we’re talking about like pumpernickel rye situation. Yeah, or maybe it’s probably like a seven seed multigrain. F that. F that in the A. I think if you’re doing like a fig jam kind of sweet, No, no, no, no. You’re being silly. You’re being silly. And then you get back in. If it’s a panini, That’s just Italian for multiple sandwiches. Panino is Italian for a sandwich. If it’s a panini, I’m down. A paninus. A panini. Back in. Thanks so much for everything you do. Um, that’s five stars. It’s great creative writing. If you don’t make it in the marine biology field, God forbid. Yeah, some people say, some people say, you know, you know, keep, keep it light, keep it tight. Not me. Give me some long winded imaginative stories. Storytelling. I was the, I could imagine myself eating that grilled cheese right now. How crazy descriptive. I was in a creative writing class in like ninth grade. Let me tell you. I had the time of my life and this kind of inspired me to go get back into it. You know, logos, pathos, ethos, aos, Portos, Ian, all of those, man, I’m naming my kids. All of those. All of those. That was great. How many names was that? Eight. That was great. Well, I’ll tell you, I’ll, yeah, explain. You know what that means. It’s time for opinions aren’t like casseroles, logos, ethos, and pathos. Those are feelings. Those are the three tenets to good writing. I know what they are. Yeah, but then I said at those portos Two of the three musketeers a D’Artagnan wasn’t a musketeer, but he was like they’re familiar. He was like their aid to camp familiar. Yeah, so that was six names Yeah, what’s the there’s another one at those portos? Aragorn? Aragorn. Well, look up the Three Musketeers names, but play a, play a thing, uh, play an opinion. Hello, people who rock on Hot Dog is a Sandwich. This is Pam Colley from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and something I just discovered, um, I’ve never been a, a string cheese eater, but I’m trying it for a low carb day. Wow! And I was just biting it, and one of my coworkers said I was eating it. A monster, you gotta eat it. Like pull off the strings. Otherwise it tastes too intense. Um, and I totally agree with that. I’m not sure if that’s something that you know is known or you agree with or still don’t like string cheese. But you know, age old debate definitely is way less salting string form. Thanks, love the pod. Bye. This is an age old debate if you do not string your cheese, if you’re a chomper on the string of cheese. Does that make you a bad person? Are you a chomper or a stringer? What are you? When’s the last time you had a string cheese, huh? It’s been a long time. I don’t eat string cheese. I eat string cheese every day. I don’t snack on, you eat string cheese every day. I eat string cheese almost every day. How, I don’t have a lot of nails. And so it’s tough for me to string it properly. It has nothing to do with your nails. You’re making excuses for yourself. You can just use your thumb to just peel it. Okay. You’re being a little silly. You’re being antagonistic about it. You’re being a little silly. What’s your string cheese method? Walk, walk people through it. Well, it depends. If it’s, if it’s a, if it’s a regular mozzarella cheese. I will be I will be shred. I’m a shredder. I’m a yeah, I’m a stringer if it’s a different kind like say a cheddar or a But you still consider that string cheese a cheddar string cheese strategy. Yes that exists I feel like that didn’t exist in the time when I was eating string cheese, of course, they had cheddar cheese sticks But you don’t stick does not string cheese make oh, really? I consider any sort of cheese that’s in stick form to be string cheese. I don’t I don’t believe that would be the case Well, it is for me Interesting, but, but do they market ALTERNATIVE FACTS! Go, here, okay, talk, talk to the audience, let’s step up. So, I like, so when it’s something like a, like a pepper jack, or a Colby Jack, or a cheddar cheese, you can’t really string it, so I just bite it. Well, you could string it, but I don’t think it would be efficient enough, so I just bite into those. But if it’s a mozzarella cheese stick, or a string cheese, I will be stringing it. I will be stringing it. Do you want me to keep talking? This is fascinating. So I’m looking up the, the taxonomy of string cheese here. So, you know, uh, Frigo cheese heads here. I’ll show you the logo. Like you recognize that. Of course I do. Remember when they put, remember when he put, um, the sauce in the cheese? Remember when they put the sauce in the cheese? What? Google it. Google it. The sauce in the cheese. They literally put the, they put like, like marinara sauce inside of the string cheese. Anybody else remember this? Maggie, come on. No. Is, is it, is there proof on the internet that this happened? Oh my god, they were called Stuffsters. They were called Sorrento Stuffsters. I didn’t make it up in my head. It’s real. It’s real. I’ve never heard of it. This is like when they came out with the peanut butter and the jelly in the same jar. Like this is the same. Goober! Goober. My mom never let me have those. It’s bad, just bad. Just two different jars. Shall never let me live. String heads, which to me is the preeminent string cheese brand. Okay. Uh, which when you say string cheese, we’re talking about ultra low moisture mozzarella, which is what makes it good for a high protein snack because low fat, low moisture, a lot of protein in there. Um, they sell a variety pack of like cheddar, marbled Colby Jack and mozzarella, but they call them strings, swirls cheddar. So even the most. dominant brand of string cheese does not consider a cheddar cheesesteak to be string cheese because the stringiness is very unique to that type of cheese you see it in ultra low most low moisture mozzarella you see it in uh like oaxaca a queso oaxaca queso oaxaca yeah sure string cheese you ever see the braided one with the nigella seeds in there i love that string cheese i think that’s like armenian or something oh yeah yeah yeah that’s also stringy That’s also very stringy. Um, if you just want to chomp it, I was eating something the other day, I can’t remember what it was, but I likened it to a guinea pig chewing on a wooden bar to file their teeth down. Was it a pear? Was it an unripe pear? I don’t remember what it was. No, there was a new candy that Spork put in the free thing that was called a mellow cream. And I was like, that sounds great, but it just tastes like hard candle wax. So it was like, um, if you had the worst candy corn you’ve ever had, and I love candy corn. Was it shaped like a pumpkin? No, it’s shaped like maple leaves, I think, or different leaves, but they’re multicolored. The point is, if you’re somebody that wants that hard, hard texture and a nice salty bite that you can chew through, great. If you want somebody that wants to increase the surface area and like string it out and you like that texture. But I truly believe there’s no right or wrong way to eat a string cheese. I think you can do whatever you want. It’s a free country. I love mellow creams. What? I love mellow creams. The hard candle wax ones? I love them so much. Well, there’s a whole bucket of them over god, I’m so excited. I’m gonna go eat afterwards. I’m excited for you, man. Yeah, boy! Next opinion, please. Hi, Josh. Hi, Nicole. Hi. My name is Debra. I’m from Indianapolis, Indiana. Um, I just wanted to give you my opinion. My opinion is grilled cheese sandwiches are good with bacon and sweet Thai chili sauce. Yes. And my husband also likes to eat his buffalo or barbecue wings with, uh, cottage cheese. Aw. All right. Thanks. Okay. With cottage cheese? Yeah. Hey, I like both of these opinions. These are both good. These are These are both good. These are both very good, very good opinions. You know what this is? This is gonna be borderline Some of the best, some of the best. This is gonna be borderline offensive. Stay with me. Some of the best. Stay with me. I feel like these are us in opinions. A little bit. I’m saying, um, what was that movie? It may or may not have had Billy Bob Thornton in it, but like a farmer Sling Sling Blade? No, not a Sling Blade. Uh, no, it was like Rocket Man, like a farmer like builds a rocket. I never saw it. And it’s kind of this like, um, I don’t know what you’re talking about. Great example of somebody with a will to do something and a lot of intelligence, but like didn’t have the formal training to do it. I feel like that’s what both of these are. You know? What do you mean? Like these are both too very, I know I said it’s borderline offensive, I’m so sorry. Yeah, you’re calling them farmers making rockets? No, no, no, no, no, because hear me out, hear me out, hear me out. The sweet chili sauce and bacon in a grilled cheese, like I make my own like caramelized onion bacon, like caramelized onion chipotle bacon jam, that takes like, An hour to make, you know, so putting that in a grilled cheese is a lot. You’re calling yourself a rocket scientist of food right now. Yes, no, I’m calling ourselves professionals who have spent, you know, over a decade now in this profession, making things from scratch, all that. You’re right. You’re getting 80 percent of the way there with high sweet chili sauce and bacon. That’s just as good. Sure. You know, similar with if you were to make some sort of like, uh, I don’t know, I guess whipped ricotta on a ring sound on a wing sounds weird, but like the cottage cheese makes a lot of sense on a wing for me, right? It’s something very ranch or blue cheese adjacent, but you’re getting a little bit extra protein, a little bit of extra texture on that, you know? Great. I think if Josh and I were two foods, we would, he would be buffalo wings with cottage cheese and I would be grilled cheese with bacon and sweet chili sauce. So I see myself in you and I hope you can see yourselves in us. Sorry, I said it offensive. Is that, is that perverted? The thing that she kind of calls you a farmer making a rocket. Was that perverted what I just said? But they made a movie about the farmer making a rocket. The Astronaut Farmer. It was called The Astronaut Farmer? Yes. Oh, well. Rocketman! What about the Astronaut Drillers? It’s probably called, it’s probably called Rocketman in like, Nigeria, you know? Like, they have cool, like, movie titles. Yeah, yeah. In like, different countries. Like, um, um. Like, Mission Impossible is like, hey little guy. Angus Thongs and Perfect Snogging in the U. S. The original book was Angus Songs and Full Frontal Snugs because I read all the books and I loved them so much. I loved, oh, best. Love it. Loving Taylor Johnson. Really, really framed the way that I thought about boys. Hi, um, my name is Phoenix. I got bullied a lot. Phoenix? I love the name Phoenix. I just, like, need it to be out there, because it doesn’t seem like a lot of people know about it, but Thank you for sharing your service. Peanut butter and mayonnaise sandwich. Yes! Don’t, try it before, don’t hate it right away. I do, I gotta go, I’m embarrassed. Phoenix, are you from Louisville, Kentucky? Wait, wait, can I tell you something? Yeah. My dream was always to name my firstborn child Phoenix, so, but that’s not happening anymore, because, that’s, That’s not happening, but I love it. It’s a reference to Conchita Verst’s 2015 Eurovision winning song. No, I know you, I know that you thought that that was where it was from. I just think it’s a beautiful name. It is a beautiful name. Beautiful unisex name. That’s a beautiful opinion. Um, I would rather, I would rather be in a room with every single girl that has ever bullied me. Instead of eat that sandwich. Tell you what, I’d rather be in a room with every single girl that’s bullied you too. You know? Every girl that’s ever bullied me sounds like a better time than eating the sandwich. I’m sorry Phoenix, I am knocking it before I try it. Okay, so I’ve, I’ve had this before. This is a very southern thing. I don’t know where you’re from, um, but high school girlfriend, family, Louisville, Kentucky, they made me this for the first time, but their sandwich was crunchy peanut butter, mayonnaise, and sliced banana, and that is a perfect combination because peanut butter, mayonnaise, both deceptively salty. Peanut butter is quite salty. It’s not sweet. It’s savory. Some is still sweetened, but very salty. The banana, to me, is where it really ties in. But still, peanut butter and mayonnaise is a good combination. I think you can one up it. Phoenix, try crunchy peanut butter, bananas, and mayonnaise, white bread. Let me know how you like it. That’s a great, that’s a great opinion. I knew a guy who used to eat crunchy peanut butter, honey, and red onion sandwiches. Well on that note, thank you so much for stopping by at Hot Dog and the Sandwich. We’ve got new audio episodes every Wednesday. Video comes out on Sunday. Yeah, if you want to be featured on opinions or like casseroles, hit us up at 833 DOG POD 1. The number again is, don’t, hold on. The number is 833 DOG POD 1. I heard your mouth open. Did my mouth open that loudly? Yeah, you went, you went, and I heard it. And I’m like, ah, not yet. And for more Mythical Jiggy Jigs, check out the other videos on Jefferson Street. Anyway, we’ll see y’all next time.