What’s the best regional burger? >> I don’t know. Maybe we should ask like a burger expert. >> Where are you going to find one of those? >> This is a hot dog is a sandwich. >> Ketchup is a smoothie. >> Yeah, I put ice in my cereal. So what? >> That makes [music] no sense. >> A hot dog is a sandwich. >> A hot dog is a sandwich. >> What? >> Welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich, the show we break down the world’s biggest food debates. I’m your host, Josh Shar. >> And I’m your host, Nicole and I. >> And today we have a very special guest on the pod. He’s a restaurant owner. He’s an author. He’s a YouTube sensation and a verifiable empressario of burger flipping. Please welcome George Moes to the pod. >> That’s me clapping. >> George, thank you so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> Anytime. So, I have had the immense privilege of eating a very hyper specific regional burger from your hands in your own home. The Michigan Olive Burger. >> No way. >> Which was truly one of the hallmark moments of my life. >> Dope. But actually, what you you at my house? You did? >> Yeah. Do you remember that? This is >> Did you black out during that shoot? I do that sometimes to be fair. >> It was about It was about a year and a half ago. It would have been March 2024. I was in New York and I stopped by your house. We did a First We Feast uh burger scholar session shoot >> where you made me the uh the Michigan olive burger and then we made some like the Cheesecake Factory sliders that have been on the menu. >> Iconic. And although it meant so much to me, apparently it meant nothing to George. I’m just another one of your burger flooies [laughter] out there. And that’s fine. >> I didn’t mean to lump you in with the okay, another person who likes burgers. But uh yeah, no, I’m glad you enjoyed that because that is a very special burger. It’s one of the oldest Actually, it’s very important. It’s one of the oldest regional burgers in America that goes back almost over over a hundred years at this point, >> man. Well, it’s funny because there are so many different regional burgers and I know at Hamburger America, your restaurant, you have the Oklahoma onion burger, >> which is certainly a contender for top regional burger in the world or in America, but then also you have a rotating section of regional burgers on the menu. What do you have going on this month? >> Well, not not I wouldn’t say rotating. It sounds like they’re coming back soon. Someone will say, “Oh, when does this burger come back? It’s so good. Your monthly burger special is so good.” Like, well, maybe three or four years because we have a lot to go through. >> Oh, yeah. There’s so many regional burgers that I could celebrate in the restaurant that it’s kind of endless. I mean, I wouldn’t say endless, but at the same time, it’s not they’re not rotating. Uh rotating means they’re going to come back and maybe eventually >> rotating in a long arc of history. >> Exactly. Right. We do feature them. I would say feature we feature regional specialties uh because they’re just so much fun and they really tell a lot about a place. Uh and they also taste great. >> Yeah. If if you had to pick what we were asking of you today. Yes. >> It’s gonna be like choosing between your children. What do you think the best regional burger of all time is? >> You know, I can’t I can’t I don’t play favorites ever. [laughter] >> Um I I won’t give you favorites. I wouldn’t say best of all time. Okay. >> Um I like the the one that’s right in front of me right now. That’s the one I like the most. Uh but seriously, the um the Oklahoma Onion Burger has done so much for us. uh especially because it’s the one we serve in the restaurant. The only regional burger we actually technically serve in the restaurant uh every single day. Uh there are other burgers on the menu that are regional specialties, but they only show up like we said like you know monthly only only once once uh once in a while and definitely for an entire month. But we have a very strict policy whenever that moment is over. It’s over. It doesn’t it doesn’t it’s off the menu and you can’t all those ingredients leave the restaurant. Like it’s like magic. You can’t come in the next day and get the burger. You can’t even try to get the burger because we’ve we’ve worked it right to the point where the next burger is on the menu and we have the ingredients for that burger, but not the burger you just had yesterday. >> Incredible. Why why the Oklahoma City onion burger? And can you describe what exactly that burger is to the audience who might not know? >> You got it. So, first of all, definitely not Oklahoma City. >> Not Oklahoma City. Sorry. El Reno, Oklahoma. >> Thank you. There you go. Thanks for clarifying that. No one ever really seems to get that right, which is fine. uh Oklahoma Onion Burger uh started in we believe started in El Reno, Oklahoma in 1922 >> at a place called the Hamburger Inn um which is right across the street from another place that still exists today called Roberts. Uh, and at one point there were many Oklahoma onion Well, they were called back then they were just called onion burgers, by the way, not Oklahoma. >> I don’t call them French fries in France. You know, [laughter] >> ironically, I I went to a place called Sids in El Reno and they did not have French fries on the menu. They had free >> fries. Oh my fries. >> Fore fries 20 20 years after. They still remember past. >> I’m sure they did. Oh god. [laughter] Sorry about that. Um the the the there are still actually many places to get an onion burger in in Elno, Oklahoma. Uh and now actually just there are a lot of places to get onion burgers in all parts of Oklahoma. Mostly uh in Oklahoma City West and South. That’s pretty much where all the onion burgers are. >> But basically to describe it, it’s very simple. It’s only five ingredients. It’s Well, actually, if you’re in Oklahoma, it’s only four ingredients. It’s onions, uh beef, bun, and salt. And that’s it. There’s nothing else on the burger. And it’s it’s it’s sort of a a beautiful science experiment, a culinary adventure where you take a ball of beef and into to that ball of beef which is sitting on a flat top, you you smash almost a similar volume of beef to onion of thin sliced onion into that ball to make a flat patty with these with onions tangled tangled together. Um it makes this what the beef fat renders and cooks the cooks the onions. People say, “Oh, why can’t you just cook the onions separately and put them on the burger?” It’s like, well, you need to have you need to have that that special temperature and also that rendered beef fat to make it taste so amazing. >> Is it typically white onion, yellow onion, sweet onion? What are we working with with the Oklahoma onion burger? >> Well, if you’re in Oklahoma, it’s a Spanish onion. Okay. Um, that’s that’s typical for uh for the the the great Oklahoma the great onion burger joints of Oklahoma. >> We actually use Vidalia. I started using Vidalia years ago. I liked it, so I I never changed. They’re very similar in a way. Sure. Spanish onion tends to be a little more acurid and Vidalia is very sweet. It’s much sweeter, but they’re both very sweet onion. >> Delicious. >> What I love so much about burgers is that like you mentioned, it’s not just putting It’s not sautéing the onions separately. It’s a burger is >> what is it? Anti Gestaltian. >> Oh, I was going to say it’s a marriage. >> It’s It’s like more than the sum of its parts. You know what I mean? Like a marriage. Like a like a great marriage. You as a couple and as a family become more than you two as individuals. No, I think it’s a great example. Feel like I’m in couples counseling [laughter] right now. >> I never heard it described that way, but okay. [laughter] True. >> But you know what I mean? It’s like the architecture is so important to it. I think the Oklahoma Onion Burger is like maybe the best example of that of the interplay between ingredients, >> just a few ingredients to be doesn’t need to be too complicated. >> It’s simple. It’s I I think so much of our burger preferences and I think our preferences when it comes to fast food are like shaped by our childhood. >> Okay. You know, George, where did you grow up? And what were like the regional burgers of your childhood? Was there anything specific or No, >> no, there actually wasn’t. That’s actually why my fascination runs so deep because I grew up on Long Island where there really weren’t a lot of great burgers. They were just burgers. They were just something you did in the backyard or my dad would take us to uh Howard Johnson’s when I was a kid and they had I believe they were frozen patties with the lines painted on them. >> Oh my goodness. >> It was a grilled burger, but you look at the lines. >> There’s some liquid smoke in there. Yeah. Yeah, they’re always the same size grill marks. So my dad said, “I think these are fake.” And we did ask them. I said, “Oh, no, it’s actually they’re not real. This made of um of like food coloring, dark food coloring.” Yep. [laughter] >> So yeah. So I did my my I think I was fascinated by only because I just I didn’t have it growing up really. I didn’t have regional burgers or anything special burger wise growing up. Spent a lot of time at McDonald’s and um and Burger King when I was a kid and then before I realized, you know, really it wasn’t was not worth it. >> Yeah, that’s so funny. I mean, so Nicole and I both grew up in Southern California. Nicole, do you remember like eating like regional burgers from childhood, and even if you think you didn’t, I feel like you maybe did and didn’t know it. I mean, other than the the California fast burger, I feel like with like the the thousand island sauce and the shreddus and the lettuce and tomato and stuff, >> which I think I think counts. Like George, forgive me if I’m wrong, but I think in like the earliest iterations of hamburgers dating back like a 100 years ago, they would call a burger with lettuce and tomato on it a California burger. >> This is true. Uh or anything that was fast, you know, thin pattied. Uh really, I was started by places like, you know, In-N-Out, Carl’s Jr. early early early burger places that many chains and local spots that all made basically the same kind of burger. U Pine Burger still makes a great version. If you if you’re looking for an original original In-N-Out burger, I always tell people go to go to Pine Burger. They make something that’s so similar but with better even better ingredients. >> Oh, and just the thickest, crunchiest, coldest iceberg lettuce. It’s never shredded. It’s always a giant wedge. I love Pine Burger so much. The best part about Pine Burger, though, is they will put meringue on pies that definitely should not have mering on it. That’s a Can I tell you something about that? That’s one thing I learned about you is Josh loves pies with meringues where the mering does not exist, but it does exist. >> Like lemon mering makes sense. The sweet cuts through the lemon. They have a butterscotch custard mering pie. >> Sounds very unnecessary. >> I’m eating. >> That’s the one they run out of every day. Have it every day. >> It’s so good. Although I’m eating 2,000 calories of of burger and thick cut fries and we got to go to Pine. >> Where is Pine Burger? >> Pasadena, baby. >> Dude, it’s it’s because I’m such a Westside girl. Like I never find myself in the dirty dena. It’s my fault. It’s my own doing. But my brother used to talk about this place called Capital Burgers all the time. And they say that In-N-Out quote unquote stole the fast burger from them. They actually closed I think maybe like 10 15 years ago or something. Maybe like 10 years ago. >> No, Capital closed about 5 years ago. And it was very sad because they were making a great burger with f like really the freshest possible ingredients and they just the neighborhood had kind of changed. It got bad, it got good, it got bad. just wasn’t it wasn’t great. And it was also it was the uh it was the son of the guy who made it great and he just his heart wasn’t in it anymore. >> Yeah. My brother used to take me he would like take me all he was like kind of like my first tour guide of LA. He’d be like he’d take me to DOS. He used to take me to special palletaras in like LA and he’d be like this is the real food of Los Angeles. Like you need to try these especially if you’re going into the food industry. So he would just like take me to all these really cool places. And then one time he took me to a palletia across the street from Capitol Burgers and he’s like this used to be the place of the OG burger and stuff like that. So >> that’s that’s like the most wonderful thing about regionally specific foods. You can go to the palletia right after eating one of these formative fast food style burgers that originated in Southern California and then now kind of became non-reional. >> But George, what was like the first regional burger experience you had where you said, “Oh, this is an incredible canvas that can be used to tell a story.” Yeah, probably the I was in the Butterburg, one of the very first bers. >> It was in um in uh Glendale, Wisconsin, just part of Milwaukee basically. >> And I couldn’t believe it. I couldn’t people would actually eat these things. And I took one bite and I thought, “Oh, wow. I know exactly why they’re eating them.” >> Um and I also know why they’re not selling it anywhere else in the country because it’s so it’s so intense, but it’s so good. And I actually found myself and the first time I had the burger, I took a bite. I looked down at the plate and I just saw that there was so like a pool of like melted butter and I dipped the burger back into the butter. So I lost my mind. >> That sounds like a dream. Oh my god, I love butter so much. >> Wisconsin is far and away the drunkest state in America. I don’t know if people know this. I was looking up the statistics the other day. I I was in Milwaukee um like 3 weeks ago and I sadly did not get a butter burger. We were too busy eating fried cheese curds and I didn’t know Bloody Marys were so regionally specific to Wisconsin. >> So much dairy in Wisconsin as well. >> Oh my god. So, so much. But I’ve never had a butter a butter burger and I’ve never been to Culver’s and I feel like it’s a a a tremendous uh mishap in my life. >> Same. >> The Culver’s butter is not quite the same thing. They kind of like they put a little bit of butter on the bun like the way anybody would like put butter on a toasted bun. If you go to Sally’s in in Milwaukee or Glendale, you’re you’re going to get two to three tablespoons of room temperature butter, soft butter that goes on the inside of the crown of the bun, the top of the bun, and when it hits the hot patty, it begins to melt. So, if you’re lucky, you get to take a bite of that burger while it’s still in its sort of semi-olid state, and it is absolutely heavy. >> That is incredible. >> I need that immediately. [laughter] >> I butter as a condiment. I remember having a a very regionally specific uh burger in Albuquerque, New Mexico. It was the first time I was there. It was when I was on the track and field team at UCLA. We used to, you know, travel around random places in the country. You’d end up in Baton Rouge, Louisiana for LSU. You’d end up in College Station, Texas for Texas A&M. And we were competing at University of New Mexico and Albuquerque. And at this point, I’d, you know, already fallen in love with food. So, I’d take all of my large shotputting teammates out to just eat as many calories as we could. And we ended up at a bar. I can’t remember the name, but it was the first time I had like a proper green chili cheeseburger. >> Yum. >> And to me, I talk talk about simple, right? I mean, the green chili can have a couple different ingredients in it, but to me, the green chili cheeseburger, the simplicity of it was a charboiled burger just on a grill in the back and some sort of nondescript white cheese, a shmear of this green chili. It’s like a paste, and there’s the MSG from the chicken bullion in there. And that to me was like my first truly great regional burger experience. George, where do you have the green chili cheeseburger ranked >> right now? It’s in my belly. Literally, I >> Oh my gosh. >> You’re not going to believe this. It might blow your mind here. I just had a green chili cheeseburger for breakfast. >> Jesus Christ. [laughter] >> How was it? >> George, you’re living a dream, man. >> So, this is this is actually a true story. I was We are featuring um I’m I’m a part of Burger Bash this year in in New York, the New York Wine Food Festival. I’m going to be Burger Bash uh in my booth. We’re not competing. I I said I only do it if I’m not competing. I just want I just want to make people happy with burgers. So, last night we decided we were going to uh do the green chili cheeseburger for the for the burger bash just for fun because it’s so good and it’s so easy and it’s so simple and there’s only really four ingredients. Green chili cheeseburger beef uh burger and bun. That’s it. Um it’s such such a great burger. So, I was I just had to test it today and take a picture for Burger Bash. So, I I ate the I ate the model. [laughter] >> I Man, I I am so mad. I was uh supposed to judge the burger bash. >> Two of my best friends. Oh my Oh, >> that looks gorgeous. >> Oh, he just showed us a picture of the burger. Oh. Oh, I want that so bad. >> So beautiful. >> I I literally took made the burger so I could take a picture of it. >> Two of my stupid best friends are getting married myself. I got green chili from New Mexico and I roasted it and I chopped it up and put it on the burger. >> Oh my god. So simple. >> Can you ask your friends to get married like another weekend? >> I would love to. I’m missing the world. I’m missing the World Produce Festival which I was so No, it’s in Anaheim this year and missing Burger Bash. >> All for Hunter and Alex. I love you too. Your love is beautiful. [laughter] I wouldn’t miss it for the world. Um there’s there’s another cousin though of the green chili cheeseburger. I don’t know if you’d call it a cousin. It’s kind of like the drunk insane cousin that kind of trashes everything. Okay, but this is another one I had in I was outside of I was in Aurora, Colorado, and I had something called a PBlo slopper. >> Oh my gosh. The PBlo slopper is I don’t even know where to start with it, but it is sitting in a large bowl of like because green chili can refer to the actual chili itself. Likely a hatch chili, but then green chili I would call it green chili preparado. >> It’s like a stew. It’s like just a sauce. It’s uh but it’s not like a chili like we think of diner style chili. >> Sure. Sure. >> But George, you’ve had a PBLO sloppy. You’ve had many sloppers, I imagine. >> I have not had many. I’ve literally had one to be totally honest and it was fantastic. It was also it was in Denver. Not not it was I think it was in Denver. I had it outside of Denver somewhere else. >> How do you eat it if it’s so wet? Is it a fork and knife situation or is it is it Oh, definitely. >> Is it a pick it up with your hand situation? >> George, I wouldn’t say definitely because if you are drunk enough in outside of Denver, Colorado, which one it’s one of the beer brewing capitals of the world, so I was uh I did pick that thing up with my hands and I think I developed a rash on my my palms. [laughter] Well, that’s probably why you shouldn’t do that. >> I had such a good time, though. But >> signing a waiver at Helen Ray. >> I I think wet bread and wet sandwiches are truly one of my favorite food groups in the world. >> You know, I love wet bread sandwiches. >> I just love I love >> a French dip, that kind of thing. >> 100%. Especially growing up, you know, in Southern California going to we’d go to a an LA Clippers game because tickets used to be $10 when they really sucked in the mid200s. >> And we’d drive up and we’d go to Phipe, the original. It’s not called Phipps, it’s called Phipe. It’s my favorite restaurant in LA. Do you know that? >> And they they invented the French dip and the spicy mustard. And so I like love wet bread. >> California also has like a a del like a a pastrarami culture that people don’t understand. >> Pastrami burger culture >> different than New York deli pastrarami like our fast food >> thin shave curly queue situation. >> These establishments have some of my favorite burgers where they also sell bean burritos, teriyak bowls, uh pastrarami and burgers. And there’s one spot in Northridge, George. If you come out to LA, I got to take you to a place called Kingsburgers Got Sushi. >> It is half [laughter] old school LA roadside diner and then half Omic AC sushi bar. >> It was one of the original Carl’s Jr. locations. >> Really? >> That was then de franchise. No, no, no. It was an original like 1960s Carl’s Jr. Char broiler location. >> Okay. >> And then a Greek immigrant bought it, turned it into a Greek roadside diner. >> Okay. And then a Taiwanese family bought that from him >> in Burgers. Their son goes and trains at like Katana and Roku and some of the best sushi bars in Southern California. He comes back, tries to save the business by improving the burgers. Finds out people don’t want that. So he said, “Screw it. I know sushi.” So you can get an $8 California roll with your pastrami blue cheeseburger >> and it is another delay. So those are the regional burgers that I grew up with that I just love. Hm. Well, I was gonna say if you like wet bread, one of [laughter] our specials coming up, one of our monthly specials is the Gargulo Burger. I’m not sure if you know that. >> What is that? >> Oh my gosh. >> Garulo burger uh was invented um at a place called Brandon and Carr in Deep Brooklyn in Nor Avenue in Brooklyn and uh back goes back almost 100 years. So, back to the 1930s and or 40s, I believe. Um and it’s a it’s a cheeseburger. Okay. >> Uh but it’s also a roast beef place. So they put sliced uh hot warm warm roast beef on the burger with grilled onions. They take the entire thing with tongs and they dip it into a bath [laughter] of beef broth. >> You’re literally speaking my language. >> Oh, this really is the hybrid of a French dip and a burger. >> It’s a It’s a very wet burger. >> What are some more off thebeaten path regional burgers out there? Cuz I know there’s some like the Slug Burger, the Goober Burger, right? that have a kind of a bit of not a sorted history, but like an interesting history. >> Since I was a kid, every time I saw the Goober Burger, I’m like, there’s no one that really eats that. I guess it was one of those things like whenever you’re a kid and your dad is watching like best burgers in America by like Spike TV or something. >> Probably hosted by George >> probably. And it’s like this is the Goober [clears throat] Burger. They put a smear of peanut butter and I’m like seven and I’m like nobody’s nobody’s doing that. They’re just doing it just to do it. Like Fear Factor. No, it’s actually historically it was invented 80 years ago, right? Um at a place called the Wheelin Drive-In in Sidellia, Missouri, and they were one of the very first to put peanut butter on a burger. It was an idea given them, I think, to them by a random person who walked in, said, “I got a great idea for a burger.” Next, you [laughter] know, they’ve got >> they’ve got peanut butter in the burger, but it’s it’s just warmed smooth peanut butter poured onto the burger. Uh it’s kind it’s glorious. I mean, I I tell people like, you know, think of think beef saté, you know, if you’re having a hard time with it, it’s basically the same thing. >> I I Peanut butter to me is one of the most fascinating things in the world because I think the European mind can’t comprehend two things. It’s one, how to throw an American football. [laughter] >> I was on the beach with a friend from Spain trying to throw an American football. It was just so tough. >> They just don’t get the shape of it. They can’t get it. >> They can’t get the spiral doesn’t make it in peanut butter. >> Like peanut butter is such >> nut butters in general or just peanuts. >> Specifically, peanuts are like such a uniquely they exist throughout the world, but like peanuts and peanut butter specifically are such a uniquely American product. And so if you look at when peanut industrialized peanut butter first hit the scene in the early 1900s, late 1800s, they would show up in like fancy New York hotels and they’d be like, uh, peanut butter with iceberg lettuce cuz I don’t know, >> cuz they don’t know what to do with it. >> Well, they did know what to do with it and it was put it with iceberg lettuce and people enjoyed it, you know. And then 80 years ago, they’re putting it on a burger. It wasn’t until we kind of like through marketing campaigns hit this kind of like peanut butter jelly’s peanut butter cup >> paradigm changing it from like savory to sweet. Yeah, peanut butter isn’t sweet at all. I had this argument with people. There’s four grams of sugar in GIF peanut butter per two tablespoons. That’s negligible. It’s a salty, delightful, savory treat. You should be putting it on hamburgers. >> Yeah, we we had two Germans, and this is a true story. We had two Germans in the restaurant the other day and they ordered the peanut butter and jelly I have a peanut an excellent peanut butter and jelly sandwich on the menu. It’s not It’s not complicated. It’s literally just square, you know, white Pullman bread, right? untoasted with gif and uh and and like regular smuckers grape jelly and they acted like they had eaten like the greatest food in the world. They had never we don’t have this in Europe. What is this? How do we do this at home? What should I do? [laughter] >> Oh my god. >> It was unbelievable. I was I was I couldn’t I was like well I never thought. So I actually sat down and talked to them for 10 minutes and told them the best strategy for making their own peanut butter and jelly sandwich in Germany. >> You keep the crust on? >> Of course. >> Food waste. She’s got margins here. >> Manateaste. A manateaste. [laughter] >> Was it called snackable? What was it? Snackables. What was the thing that was Uncrustables? >> Oh, I can’t I can’t do Uncrustables. >> Oh my god. >> It’s too weird. It’s >> You guys need to grow up. Uncrustables are delicious. >> Drop them in a deep fryer. Maybe >> they’re they’re just they’re the perogi of peanut butter and jelly. What’s What’s with the hate? Well, like as an American, if you were to go to Malaysia and eat kaya toast, which I love. I’ve gone to Southeast Asian restaurants and eaten kaya toast. My mind has been blown. But just the daily breakfast for a nation of hundreds of millions of people. >> It is mind-blowing, though. The first time you have the first time you have Kaios, it is quite mind-blowing. [laughter] I’ll say that much. >> Uh, what other what other regional burgers have you had, Nicole, that you were like, “Okay, this is a strange and delightful combination.” >> If I could say, I mean, I’m It’s a very polarizing It’s a very polarizing choice as my favorite. Some people might not even call it a burger. It’s a patty melt. I love patty melts. I just love there’s something about the bread, the rye bread, and how crusty it gets and how delicious it the the way that it melts with like the caramelized onions, like the deeply dark caramelized onions and the cheese and the meat. It’s just so delicious. But a lot of people don’t like patty melts. I’ve learned the first Patty Mouth I ever had was at Johnny Mfffin Rockets. >> Johnny Rockets. >> And I love I love Johnny Rockets to this day. It’s the first place I ever had a milkshake. Like like I had a cookies and cream milkshake and a patty melt. And I still remember it to this day. And it was one of the most delicious eating experiences I’ve ever had. >> And I made sure all my friends took a bite of the um patty melt and they all loved it too. There’s something about, like you said, onions and meat and fat are just such a wonderful combination of foods. And then whenever you add that rye bread, that little twinge of something different, those delicious seedy breads, it just it opens it up for me at least. It’s it’s it’s a delicious eating experience. >> I rebuke the patty melt. >> Ouch. >> I rebuke it. I I rebuke thee, Nicole. >> Why? >> Why do you rebuke thee? >> I one, listen, I’ll I’ll eat anything. I I I eat rotisserie chickens over the garbage for most of my meals. So I like I’ll enjoy a patty melt, but I have like a couple fundamental problems with it. A circular burger on a square piece of bread. It’s a round peg in a square hole. It doesn’t make no sense. >> Of there’s extra pieces of bread that I don’t want. Also, >> you’re not thinking about the melting. You’re not You know what your problem is? You’re not thinking of the melt of the cheese and the onions that >> there’s a natural spread that compromise that that does not compromise a sandwich. >> What are the beauties of a burger? one, like the Brits, I think they kind of got it right where any any sandwich that’s served on a round bun is a burger to them. And to me, I think the round bun and the round puck of meat is just so beautifully endemic of what makes a burger like the perfect food. And I think you put it on sliced bread and I know Louis lunch, you can talk about it. I see it on George’s lips over there. [laughter] >> I have many things to say here, >> but that that’s just I don’t know. I’ve never enjoyed a patty melt as much as I would put some carowway seeds on my burger bun. That’d be lovely. But I can’t do it. >> Let me tell you why she’s right and you’re wrong. >> Yeah, let’s gladly. [laughter] >> I like you both equally. I’m not not saying that. But >> the um the the main thing about the Patty Bell. First of all, just number one is I have a lot lot of things to say here. Uh it’s it is a regional burger, by the way. And it is from technically from San Francisco, but really made its home in Los Angeles. >> It’s from Los Angeles. >> It was started at a place called Tiny Oh my god. Tiny Nailers. >> Yeah. Tiny Nailers, which was in Hollywood, West Hollywood, >> uh, in Hollywood. Um, and it was um, it was originally supposed to be sourdough bread, but it was in San Francisco. He had a restaurant, Tiny had a restaurant in San Francisco. He moved down to LA. Um, and he opened up Tiny Nailers in LA, but they he couldn’t find good sourdough, so he switched it to rye. That’s why he used rye. That’s how it happened. But, and specifically, a patty melt is exactly that. It’s basically it’s a rye bread, Swiss cheese, grilled cheese with a burger patty inside and some onions. So, what I like about the patty melt, which is so brilliant, is that even though, sure, it’s it’s a round patty with a square piece of bread or oblong piece of bread that doesn’t really fit technically. What you do have is once you’re done with the burger, you have a little bit of that bread left. There’s still cheese and you’ve got a grilled cheese. So, it’s >> exactly >> perfect. >> Exactly. >> You want a grilled cheese, order a grilled cheese. You want a burger, you order a burger. >> Oh, I want a hamburger inside of my grilled cheese. >> You have a little We have a burger on the menu. Uh that’s actually the burger I grew up with. It’s called a Chester. And it’s actually I’m sorry, it’s actually not on the menu. It’s on the off menu. You can always ask for it in Hamburg America, but it’s called a Chester. And a Chester is basically a patty melt, but it’s not. It’s a white bread American cheese grilled cheese, uh, which is two pieces of cheese, um, and with a burger patty inside. And that’s it. And it’s kind of it’s kind of perfect. >> I don’t know, man. There’s something about having like once you finish the like meat of a patty melt and then having a little bit of stone ground mustard and a little bit of thousand island and a little bit of ketchup and whatever hot sauce they have at the diner and just swiping the crust through that mlange of sauces that just it it’s like it’s another part of the dish. It’s like another part of the meal. >> I accept I accept that both of you can [laughter] have your opinions and that and I accept that I can be perfectly wrong on this. I will say, ironically, one of my favorite fast food burgers growing up, like I I love the idea of these regional burgers, they eventually like influenced fast food restaurants. Jack in the Box had a Butterburg burger on their menu, the the Buttery Jack for a while, but Carl’s Jr. had something called the Frisco Burger, >> right? >> And the Frisco Burger was on, I suppose, what they technically called sourdough rounds, but it wasn’t a burger bun. It was rounds that were >> Oh, the Dude, I remember this shape. So, it is so ingrained in my brain from seeing those commercials. >> The Frisco burger is such and there was like there was no lettuce on it. It was just like tomato and like a warm orange mayonnaise. >> They’re gorgeous. That bun. Would you consider it a bun? It’s a slice of bread. >> It’s a slice of bread. But also, I know so so Alvin Kylan, who’s done a lot of work with George on First We Feast, he specifically gets a a round, it’s like a round whatever a round Pullman loaf would be called. So he can slice it and and make burgers like that with round bread that you can get that toast on the outside. >> Yum. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> I love I need to eat a burger immediately. >> Uh Nicole, you you had a Southern California regional burger for the first time, I believe, a week and a half ago. >> When >> you went to a spot that you never been to? >> Me? How do you know so much about me? What’s going on? >> I was You brought it. You offered me some of your fries. >> What did I do? >> You went to Tommy’s. >> I went to Tommy’s for the first time. Oh my gosh. What an experience that was. The little red I love the little red hut. It was so iconic. I had chili cheese fries and then I had a chili cheese burger. The chili cheeseburger had tom I put tomato onion lettuce on it. I don’t think I’m ever going to do that again, though. The tomato, lettuce, onion on the chili, it’s too hot and it’s and it wilts in a not so pleasant way. >> The chili lubricates everything, too, so it slides off each other. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um and it was a great first experience. Will I go to Tommy’s again? Maybe. But um I’m really glad I got to try it for the first time. I felt like I I checked something off of the LA girl list that I always wanted to. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What are what are some off thebeaten path like regions that have burgers? Like I know Min Minneapolis has the Juicy Lucy, >> which I think is everywhere. [laughter] Juicy Lucy of uh Yeah. of Minneapolis is fantastic. That’s a good one. Also, yeah, the Frea uh which is the regional specialty of specifically Little Havana in Miami. Um, you actually can’t even find the real thing in in um in Cuba anymore because there too many too many ingredients, you know, that go into that burger. It it went it came with the people who were escaping the revolution in 1958, 1959 and landed in Miami and basically stayed there and and flourished. It’s a beautiful burger. It’s wonderful, wonderful burger. Really is great. >> There’s so many. The slug burger is also fantastic. Northern Mississippi. I that’s that has a long sorted tale attached to it which no one likes me to tell the story if you’re from Mississippi. You always got it wrong. Like I don’t have it wrong. [laughter] I don’t I know what I’m talking about. I know what you’re hiding. >> Uh Nicole, if you had to give your ultimate burger, you’re calling it the patty melt regional burger. >> I’m sorry to upset you like this, Josh, but for me it’s a patty melt. >> I I accept you. I accept you. All all regional burgers are beautiful and there’s so many international burgers that we could talk talk about too, but to me nothing. I’m giving it to the PBlo slopper. Give it to the slopper for one. >> George, I know you’re not going to pick your favorite, but if you just want to shout out shout out a couple that you enjoy. >> I would say that the Oklahoma fried onion burger is probably the one that’s made me the most famous. So, I really should be appreciating that more than I actually do. I had one yesterday, you know, but I really do love the green chili cheeseburger just for its basic simplicity. Yeah. >> And to me honestly, I like the I like what’s I like to call the original American hamburger, which is a smash patty with nothing more than mustard, pickle, onions. >> Uh that to me is kind of perfect. You know, it’s kind of a perfect the ideal the the batonic ideal for a burger. >> And sometimes you travel the entire world just to come back home. >> The first thing I do when I when I travel and I come home is I go to my own restaurant, eat a burger. [laughter] >> I feel so patriotic right now. >> Only because I just I need to have I need to have that. We spend so much time just trying to get it right, you know, and I get on the road. I’m like, I kind of got it right sort [laughter] of. Okay, I need a burger. I kind of reset. The first thing I do when I go home is go reset at the restaurant. >> Uh, which one of your kids do you love the most? [laughter] >> I love a meal. >> Fall is the perfect season to invest in yourself, and what better way than learning a new language. Whether you’re planning a trip, craving a new challenge, or just looking to make the most of cozy nights in, Rosetta Stone makes it simple to turn just a few minutes a day into real progress. >> Rosetta Stone has been the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years. Their immersive, intuitive method helps you naturally absorb and retain your new language with lessons available on desktop or mobile so you can learn anytime, anywhere. >> I love how approachable the lessons are. Bite-size, easy to follow, and their true accent speech recognition gives real-time feedback that actually helps me sound more natural. It feels like having a personal language coach right there with me. >> And with 25 languages to choose from, from Spanish and French to Japanese and beyond, you’ll find the one that fits your goals. So, don’t wait. Unlock your language learning potential now. >> A hot dog is a sandwich. Listeners can grab Rosetta Stone’s lifetime membership for 50% off. That’s unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit rosettasone.com/hotog to get started and claim your 50% off today. >> Don’t miss out. Go to rosettastone.com/hotog and start learning today. >> All right, Nicole and George, we’ve heard what you and I have to say. Now it’s time to find out what other wacky ideas are rattling out there in the universe. It’s time for a little segment we call opinions are like casserole. [music] Uh, George, first up, we have to get your opinion on something. It’s the namesake of the show. Is a hot dog a sandwich? [laughter] >> No. >> Good enough for me, Nicole. Let’s get to that. [laughter] >> Let’s get to that first opinion, shall we? >> The right answer? I don’t know. I think there actually is. I from what I understand, there’s really no right answer, but I truly believe that no, it’s it’s a hot dog’s a hot dog. >> I I could ask what you think about a hamburger being a sandwich. >> The hamburger is a sandwich. Wait, why is a hamburger a sandwich? >> We don’t have time for this. >> No, we do. Real quick, George, >> pieces of bread are separate like like a sandwich. That’s why. >> Okay. Well, I >> Unless you go to Shake Shack where they keep the hinge, but it’s a long That’s a different story. >> I thought you was going to talk about because the original was is it at Louis where they called it a hamburger sandwich. >> They did. Exactly. That’s really, I think, where a lot of it comes from in history. >> But also, they called it they called it a hamburger a hamburg steak sandwich to be hamburg steak sandwich. >> Hamburger steak. >> I have newspaper records dating back to 1849 calling a hot dog a hot dog sandwich. But that’s fine. That’s fine. That’s fine. Nobody wants to believe me. Nobody wants to believe the guy with the receipts. I’m just screaming into the void. >> Yep. Uh, >> earliest known in print, by the way, um, of the hamburger sandwich was 1893 in the El and the Reno, not El Reno, but the Reno Evening Gazette. >> Reno, Nevada. >> Yeah, Reno, Nevada. 1893, which obviously predates, by the way, predates Louis. So, they hate me for this, but it’s true. They This is This claim is false. >> What’s There’s the the one the ones in Texas who add coffee and sugar to their burger. >> Uh, yeah. No, that’s not it. >> So, they they also make a very I can’t remember what they’re called, but somebody who worked there, showed up to a meet and greet once and like gave me their like seasoning packet >> and they’re like this was the original burger in America. I couldn’t tell. >> Fletcher Davis, that whole thing. There’s like nine different claims to the invention of the hamburger. But keep in mind, when the when the hamburger was invented, there was there was no it wasn’t like a media sensation. It was just it was actually ethnic food from Germany. It was not like seen as anything. It’s like talking about like like if we talked about papooseas today, you know, whoa, new papoosea just came on the scene. >> Nobody really cares, you know. But maybe 100 years from now they’ll care about papooseas and tacos, you know? >> Right. Oh, the men the menches brothers. >> The Menches brothers. Yeah. Oh, there’s so many. >> Everyone’s making a claim. Uh, >> everyone’s making a claim. >> You remember all those claims happened after the fact. They were making claims in the 50s and 60s about, oh yeah, my grandfather did this 100 years. No, >> I invented chili crisp. >> Do you want to get >> I’m going to get sued. Yeah, go ahead. >> Okay, [laughter] so Nick on Twitter says, “Fried egg is the best burger topping of all time, followed closely by fresh sliced jalapenos.” How do you feel about that, George? >> Whoa. F I think fresh sliced jalapenos are a problem on a burger. [laughter] >> Oh, okay. >> They’re just I think they’re too much. I like I rather have pickled. I think a lot of people enjoy pickled jalapenos. They have a little bit less bite. Um, they can be crunchy, but there’s something about the pickling process which makes them a little more palatable. I think the raw raw fresh is a little bit odd to me. I’m not a big fan of the flavor. Um, also, and then what was the other thing? Oh, egg. Egg is great. Eggs are actually fantastic. If you cook the egg correctly, it’s a great it’s a great addition to a burger. And pretty much every every country outside of the US puts them on their burgers regularly. So, >> especially in the >> How do you feel when the yolk drips down on your like wrist and whatnot? Does is that an enjoyable experience for you? Because >> no, it makes me sad because it should be in my mouth. >> Yeah, I know. I I agree with you that that the egg needs to be cooked very very properly. Almost like >> Yeah. I want to slap every single person on Instagram who takes a picture of the yolks shooting out of the onto the plate. It’s like, >> yeah, >> what are you doing? Ruin the burger. >> I will say I think I think you and I so like Nicole and I both came of age. We both turned 18 in 2010, >> which was the rise of like the the the at the time $16 gastrop pub burger. Now they’re $25 gastro pub burgers >> and all of and I still have a deep love for a lot of those burgers. The father’s office, the planch check, even like early umami burger was I think really good, >> but so many of them had unnecessary fried eggs on it, which I’m I’m always happy to get a fried egg. I love eggs and I love it on a lot of burgers, but there was a We dealt with a lot of extraneous egg situations on burgers growing up. >> Yeah, we did. >> That’s fair. That’s fair. >> I I have some scars from that era. And they were all sitting in little tiny cute cast irons or like on a cutting board. You know what I mean? >> With the knife pumbled through it >> and getting like a smoked bourbon old-fashioned fatwashed with pork lard, you know? >> I’m so sorry about that. [laughter] >> It was It was a moment in time. >> I’ll say this. >> Mumford and Sons were all on their way. [laughter] >> Hey boom, hey stomp clap music. Is that what they call it? I love fresh sliced jalapenos on a crispy chicken sandwich. I will say on a burger I agree with you. It needs that pickle. It needs that like that sharp acid to kind of cut through, which I like as opposed to that fresh green flavor from regular sliced jalapenos. And I love peppers. >> Peppers. Peppers have um when you cook a pepper, >> what they call the flesh, the flesh, the pepper, it gets a really great texture once it’s cooked and the skin is off. >> Agreed. >> There’s something very special about a like a roasted red pepper. Oh my god. >> Sure. >> Special. That is a really really special moment. But you have to you have to roast it or cook it somehow to get the flesh to break down so that it’s it tastes a little little better, a little softer. >> I agree. You know, >> this is an opinion that I really respect. This is from FunnyFish21. The taller the burger, the worse it gets. If I can’t comfortably bite down from top bun to bottom bun, it is immediately a terrible burger. >> Yes, this is true. [laughter] This is absolutely true. This is this is uh this is the truth because hamburger architecture is is of the utmost importance. When you build a burger, >> it has to fit be able to fit in your mouth. If it’s if it’s not going to fit in your mouth, you know how are you gonna pos how can you possibly enjoy it? You should be able to get every single flavor in that burger in the first bite. Period. >> I have a question, George. What do you think about burgers that the diner has to smash down with their hands to get to a place where it can be eaten? >> I mean, I’m not a big fan of that and I understand why. Sometimes if you have crispy bacon that’s blooming, you do have to squish it down. So that doesn’t really bother me too much. But I don’t like the fact that, >> you know, this there’s a moment um when on it all started on Instagram where all these influencers were taking pictures of these tall burgers because the restaurants wanted them to. The restaurants wanted to say, “Wow, look at that burger.” And nobody cared if it fit in your mouth or not. They just they all they care is that it looked great, >> right? >> It literally fills up an Instagram frame better. Like everybody knows if you try and take a picture of like a [laughter] like literally. Yeah. That’s why even so many smash burgers are photographed with all the meat just hanging out of the bun. What a shame. >> I know. I know. >> The onion burger. You look at the two burgers you make in the restaurant. We make a a classic smash all the way, which is butter pickle onion. We also make an onion burger. They look identical when they’re on the plate. They look kind of sad actually. And I see people take pictures of them all every day. People will take pictures and post on Instagram and I just go like like sorry it looks so sad but everyone knows that it tastes great and they it’s hard to it’s hard to explain to people you know that you don’t it doesn’t have to look like a Instagram ready photo for it to taste fantastic. >> Agreed. Agreed. You guys How do you guys feel about whenever they have like openf face burgers? You know whenever like you’re at a diner and it’s like one side of the bun has the cheese and the meat and the other side has all of the uh let’s say the colds. >> The Yeah. the L top >> so you can like so you can like customize it I guess is that why they do it so you can like remove >> that’s the main reason yes so you can swipe some mayo on there or something >> yeah so you basically build it yourself you know that >> you know I mean that’s that’s a diner thing >> yeah I’ve always been just a weird weirdly ethically opposed I think a burger like the marriage it needs to sleep well you know you got to sleep in the same bed you know you got to sleep everything’s got to sleep together in the burger >> it’s like serving your pepperoni on the side for pepperoni pizza >> exactly why doing that >> what was the opinion I’m sorry. I don’t remember. >> Oh, tall burgers. >> Oh, yeah. That’s a tall burger. I don’t like them. >> Uh, there’s another good one here. >> Go ahead. >> In Canada, medium rare or pink burgers is not the norm. Usually here, it’s always cooked well done. Even though I know medium rare burgers are delicious, every time I see one on TV or a movie, it weirds me out a little. >> Yeah. People do get weirded out by by seeing like pink in meat. You know, >> some people don’t know how to cook a burger and they think, “Oh, look. It’s it’s like bright dark red in there. That’s is not the way it’s supposed to be. Perfect. Rare. No. No. It’s one of those weird things. And I understand why some especially if you grew up not eating eating pink pink centered meat. I understand why people get weirded out by that. But I always tell people that if you’re looking at a burger and you take a bite and it tastes a little cold inside like you may want to >> you may want to like, you know, this person didn’t go far enough in the rare and if you can see white flex in the grind which means the the fat didn’t render out. Therefore, it is officially undercooked and it’s probably not going to taste great. >> The beauty of the of a hamburger and all the flavor really does come from from the rendered fat. If you don’t render fat, it just tastes different. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I I’ve had some undercooked burgers in really good burgers like the father’s office burger was the one that sort of kicked off this this burger revolution. >> The the bleeding bun, as I like to call it. >> Oh my god, it is. I’ve gone back there and had it where if you get like tartar in France, they’ll ask if you want it like seared. Right. Right. It literally was I’ve had it where it’s just a seared tartar sandwich, which again I do love. >> I’ve had >> it wasn’t a burger, but it was a nice tartar sandwich that I had a good time. >> I’ve had a keto sandwich before at Lila Bella. Have you ever had this before? No. There’s an Ethiopian restaurant on Fairfax where they take um keto, which is like Kefo, sorry, I was saying it wrong. That’s like this delicious like it’s like a buttered super spiced tartar. >> Yeah, it’s hot butter on cold tartar. And it’s so good. and they put it in like in like a deli roll [laughter] >> and oh my god you can either get it rare, you can get it raw, rare or well done or something. And she looked at me, she’s like, “I’m going to give it to you medium.” I’m like, “I want it rare.” She’s like, “I’m going to give it to you medium.” I’m like, “Okay, no problem.” So, in that aspect, delicious. But with >> talking two different things though, you’re like apples and airplanes here because >> we are talking apples and [laughter] apples and airplanes because what’s happening is when you have that dish, they’re adding butter because there’s no fat in there. the zero fat so most of the tartars you have like the French the famous French tartarly has no fat in it at all. When you make a burger you need fat to make the burger you chop it up and you have then you have the combination of the fat and muscle fibers um together and that’s why that the rendered that’s why the rendered fat’s better than the other ones. Um this I’m just simply that the you know there’s no actual fat in the in the stuff you’re talking about. What you’re really tasting is the steeliness of of the muscle fibers without the fat. >> Has anybody ever tried to order a smashburger medium rare? [laughter] Yes. >> How that’s like not even that’s like that’s like the it’s like it’s impossible. >> You have a you have a point 2 second window. >> Yes. >> It is actually it is possible for the professionals out there. It’s definitely possible. >> But um I had a culinary school teacher that went to Denny’s one time and he asked for his burger medium at Denny’s and they’re like sir we don’t do that. It’s Denny’s. And he’s like, “No, no, no. I need you to do this medium.” And he had to sign a waiver saying he will not claim Denny’s will not claim any responsibility for him getting sick. And he signed it and he ate it. And he’s still alive today. Still alive and kicking. >> Jack in the Box killed a few kids in the ‘9s. And suddenly the government freaks out and won’t let you serve ground beef under 165. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> it’s true. >> Yeah. They they uh they revamped the um the pork recommendations though because there’s a big trickosis outbreak that killed people in the 70s. For 40 years, people were not allowed to serve pork under 165 until 2008, I believe. >> Wow. >> Look at us. >> 145 now, right? 145. >> 145. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They their their advertising campaign is a rosy blush to your pork, >> right? Which is nothing wrong with that at all. That that actually tastes better. >> I love Agreed. Agreed. Every We all grew up on the driest pork chop. Well, not you. The driest pork chops imaginable [laughter] >> and now we fixed it. Um, Brin says, “Best burger I’ve ever had was a caprese salad burger. Balsamic glaze, whole basil leaves, thick homegrown tomato slices, thick slice of fresh moths.” Oh, I believe there was also garlic. Incredible. >> I think that person needs a salad. [laughter] I mean, I’m sure they’re fantastic. They don’t They don’t want a burger. They want a salad, which is also fine. Sure, have a [laughter] salad. >> There are a lot of burgers that take like big creative swings. And frankly, like I love the classics. I love a lot of craft in a burger, but I do kind of miss this era where people like really really played with the burger, right? And really tried to to get crazy with the combinations in in a really smart way. >> But there are so many times where like this caprese salad where I’m like that becomes a better dish if you take the burger patty out of it. >> I would just get a steak. Yeah. >> Then you have a lovely mozzarella and tomato sandwich that’s you know you could be in a seaside chore in Italy. Like the burger detracts from that. >> Mhm. I agree with you. >> I totally agree. And it’s a temperature thing, too. I don’t know what is the temperature of the burger cold. I mean, otherwise you’re you’re just have this weird melange of of like melt halfmelted mozzarella and wilted lettuce. >> You know, that’s all room temp. You know, that’s room. Let me tell you, I’m not going to yuck somebody’s yum. But I do think I would probably if I saw this on the menu, I would probably pass on it. What I would do is I would get a caprese salad and a steak and I would uh do a little Thai beef salad situation at that point. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. That’s One of the greatest one of the greatest sandwiches I think in the whole world by far is the simplicity of mayonnaise, tomato, and white bread. >> Yeah, >> it’s perfect. >> What’s your mayonnaise? What’s your mayonnaise of choice? [laughter] >> Specifically, we uh I like helmets. >> I like my >> I also like homemade mayo. Homemade mayo is great, too. I do make homemade mayo. Um, but I like [laughter] >> Dukes [snorts] is also pretty good, too. But you know, >> I have a BLT once a year and I put Dukes on it and it’s one of my favorite eating experiences and I make my It’s so good. >> I do a turkey bacon BLT once once a year. >> What? Why? >> It’s a weird thing. I grew up growing up growing up Jewish turkey bacon. It’s a weird thing where I crave my ancestral I have an ancestral craving for turkey bacon. I eat a lot of pork. Ate a lot of bacon in this house. >> No, I’m just saying. Well, anyways, we’re going to fight this one out. [laughter] On that note, thank you all for listening to A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. We got new audio only episodes every Wednesday, video version here on YouTube every Sunday. George, you got anything to plug? Where can people find you? >> Uh Hamburg America 51 McDougall is Soho. Uh we’re open every day, every single day. Seven days a week except for Christmas. >> You going to be there on October 3rd? >> I will. Yes, I will be there. >> I’m going to see you there. I’m coming through. >> I’ll see you then. If you want to be featured on opinions or casserles, give us a ring and leave a quick message at 833 Dog Pod 1. >> And for more Mythical Kitchen, we got other videos. You know where they are. We launch them every week. We’ll see youall next time. Watch the full recording of Good Mythical Evening Sloshed in Space on demand at good mythicaling.com. And don’t forget to grab a limited edition tea while you’re there.