What’s the best cheese on a cheeseburger? >> Nacho cheese. [laughter] Got him. >> Wouldn’t that just like sloth off and like be like really like weird and like gummy and stuff? >> Nicole, it’s a joke. You used to be funny. We used to have fun. Remember? >> This is a hot dog is a sandwich. >> Ketchup is a smoothie. >> Yeah, I put ice in my cereal. So what? >> That makes [music] no sense. >> A hot dog is a sandwich. >> A hot dog is a sandwich. [laughter] >> What? Welcome back to our podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich, the show we break down the world’s biggest food debates. I’m your host, Josh Shar. >> And I’m your host, Nicole Annay. >> And comedy is legal again, baby. Not [screaming] nacho cheese. >> Yeah, that’s right. >> Then who’s is it? >> So today we’re going to be talking [laughter] Today we are going to be talking about from a professional chef and culinarian’s perspective, >> which we are both >> which we are both. >> I am not a professional chef. I’m not a professional chef either. I know we use the title a lot. [laughter] >> I was gonna say the B word. Can I say the B word on the podcast? >> That’s your word. We decided >> I’m a professional >> See, that’s [laughter] great. And I’m a professional lover. >> I’m a Anyways, um >> Oh, got it. Got it. You’re >> We’ve both been working professionally in food. We think more about food than almost anything. >> I think about food a lot. >> Think about food a lot. And that qualifies us to talk about what the best cheese is on a burger. However, Before we decide what the best cheese is on a burger, >> I think we need to to sort of widen that funnel >> and talk about whether or not cheese needs to be on a burger at all. >> Well, let me tell you, cheeseburgers is my favorite food. >> Cheeseburgers is your is that a reference to something? >> Well, chicken nuggets is my family is >> Can I tell you something? Go ahead. >> You’re lower than you usually are. There’s a big smudge on your glasses and your hair is like off center. Yeah. >> Can I fix you? >> Yeah. Fix me. Fix me. >> Can I have your glasses for two seconds? Sure. Okay, hold on. >> So, while Nicole’s cleaning my glasses, I can’t do anything about the hair. Tried a new hair product. Was at the CVS. They didn’t have the one that I liked because brick and mortar stores are just dead. And I don’t I don’t >> So sad. >> I don’t want to order a hair product off Amazon, but I got the hair product that I like at CVS like 6 years ago, and I’ve been trying to use that. And >> I go in there, and like 80% of the shelves are empty because stores are dying. >> Disgusting. >> And I I want to go there. And so now I tried to use a new hair product and it just it doesn’t dry quite right. And so now it looks all messed up. Um, what else did you complain about with my physical appearance today? >> Your chair’s low. >> Okay. Chair raised it up. >> Didn’t actually do anything, but it looked like I did. And Nicole’s not going to notice now. >> Let me let me know if that’s >> glasses are clean. >> Let’s see. Cuz that big smudge is >> way way smudgier than it was before. Now [laughter] Nicole, you keep them entertained while I grind this on my t-shirt for a while. >> [laughter] >> tell you why I wear my glasses in the gym and I sweat all over them and I get the oils from my face on them >> naturally. >> Uh I wouldn’t work out with glasses on, but in the gym is mostly where I take notes for last meals guests. >> Oh, have you ever thought about Please clean your glasses if you like. >> Have I thought about contacts? >> Yeah, why should you say contacts? I wear, you know, I’m a negative seven in both eyes and I wear contacts. I’m so glad you asked in your um continued uh uh making assumptions of people’s health issues and how you can fix them without asking any questions. >> What contacts have to do with health? >> Why don’t you get any contacts? Well, I’ve tried to get contacts. I have an asymmetrical aigmatism. So, it makes it very difficult. You’d have to get custom contacts, which I did have made. >> Um but also people with asymmetrical aigmatism sometimes get vertigo with contacts. >> Uh and I did on my drive home from the lens crafters and I thought I was going to get in a crash. So, I just pulled over and decided that glasses are what I’m going to do. >> What happens then is you have a smudge on your glasses which does not bother you whatsoever. >> Let’s go get LASIC. Maybe we’ll do a two for one deal. >> Lasic. I don’t know, man. I kind of just they’ve created a little device I can put on my head called glasses that have become [laughter] if anything a signature of my brand and visage. Um and uh getting lasic hair getting lasic. [laughter] Let’s get laser hair removal instead of lasic. >> Laser hair removal. You get lasic. >> All get laser hair removal. You get lasic [laughter] everywhere. Just zap all the hairs off my head. I already did that. >> I want to be like a dolphin. I want to be like Pittsburgh linebacker Ryan Shayer. >> I literally lasered myself from the chin down. Got pregnant, came back. >> That’s pretty hilarious. [laughter] >> That you should get your money back. You should be able to to come with the receipts, which is just your hairy body >> and [laughter] show it to the people at the laser factory. >> You call this seven sessions. >> Local YouTuber and podcaster arrested. [laughter] >> Okay, we need to be serious. We need to be serious. Sorry I screwed up your losses. I feel like me and you haven’t like hung out in a while, so we’re just like we’re just having a moment. Um, >> cheeseburgers, love them. Favorite food. >> I When’s the last time you had a cheeseburger without cheese, which we used to call a hamburger >> or a hamburger style steak? >> I l I literally have not had a hamburger in a long time. I have cheeseburgers maybe like once a week at this point. >> Nice. What is this? Mostly In-N-Out or you getting your cheeseburgers from all over the place? I mean, In-N-Out’s great. Um, I had, what did I have? I had Five Guys like 3 days ago. >> Okay. >> It was great. Fantastic. >> And Five Guys does they do give you a a choice of cheese, right? >> I don’t know if they give you a choice, but I’m pretty sure they use craft American cheese. >> They give you choices on so many things. Do you not get a choice of cheese at five? >> I think so. I think it’s just the good oldfashioned yellow American cheese there. >> That’s That’s my knowledge. They’ve never offered other cheeses, but they do have things like A1 steak sauce and like mushrooms. Oh, they have all the things that you don’t want to add to your burger. >> Yeah, I don’t need Yeah, I don’t need to add all that. >> You ever go crazy and be like, “Yeah, let’s try A1 on my Five Guys Burger. Let’s try A1 and mushrooms.” Then you’re like, “Oh, I wish I would have gotten it.” >> Not me. Not me. But my loving life partner, David. Yeah. He’s like, “Just do it all the way.” And I’m like, >> he gets everything that I’ve done that before, too, at Five Guys. And it just gives you the wetest salad in a bun. And Five Guys burgers are already so wet, which is what makes them pretty good. >> Um, hold on. I’m going into the Five Guys menu right now. I’m pretty sure it’s just craft. According to my research, it says Five Guys Use Craft American Cheese. >> Well, I’m starting my order on the online Five Guys. There’s so many different things to click. >> I know. It’s It’s really crazy. I wonder how much they how often they run out of like diced onion and like mushroom and jalapeno. >> No, like there’s just there’s so many things to click to get to a menu. >> I’m so sorry you’re having a hard time. I >> When’s the last time you had a burger, no cheese? >> Burger, no cheese. I went to In-N-Out the other day and I I decided that getting a hamburger, which is a completely separate menu item at In-N-Out, >> which I think is very fun. >> Um, and I I don’t miss the cheese sometimes. I got a single hamburger. >> Okay. >> Um, with the double double, I kind of I love the way that the cheese melts in between the patties and creates kind of its own thing, >> right? >> But I just got a hamburger without cheese just to remember what it was like, >> what the meat tastes like. Yeah, pretty much. Well, not even to remember what the meat tastes like, but to remember what it was like to order a burger without cheese because I feel like there’s no data on this. I’ve tried to look this up, but I feel like hamburgers without cheese over time have been precipitously dropping. >> I see that as well. >> I feel like every passing year, the popularity of cheeseburgers rises as hamburgers falls. And certainly that wasn’t the case because the cheeseburger wasn’t invented until, god, what was it? It was like I think like the 1930s. It wasn’t that >> I was told I always thought it was the 19 1950s in Pasadena, but maybe that’s when it was like codified as a cheeseburger. >> So, it was originally called the aristocratic hamburger at the right spot in Pasadena and then um the place that I love, pie and burger. Still makes one of the best cheeseburgers. >> Really? I have never been. >> They kind of call themselves like the home of the original cheeseburger cuz the right spot closed. >> Um so it’s like not I guess that new compared to the hamburger. But anyways, I I feel like it used to be a lot more common even when I was like a kid >> to get like a Whopper without cheese. To get a famous star without cheese. Not only that, those are two separate menu items. The famous star and the superstar. >> Okay. >> Or no, no, superstar is a double. Never mind. So, it’s a famous star with cheese. I lied to your face. But the point is, it was like 30 cents extra to add cheese when I was a kid. >> And you’re like, I’m not going to do that. There’s no point. >> Yeah. We was poor. We couldn’t afford a slice of cheese on it. And so, I ate so many more like Whoppers without cheese. >> It’s a really good sandwich. You don’t need the cheese in the water. >> I don’t need the cheese. I >> You think it’s cuz it’s flame broiled or whatever? >> I think Yeah. The flavor of the meat. I mean, it kind of just tastes like pure gasoline and beef fat, which I’m not mad about. I love it. Whopper. >> Okay, we’re different. >> It tastes like it has artificial grill flavor spread all over. >> I don’t like that. That’s what I love. >> You like it? >> Chunky a chunky acid white onion on it. Hot mayonnaise and ketchup. Big wide. The burger is wide. Wide burger and I love it. And I think the Whopper is better without cheese. >> Okay, that’s fine. I think it’s the rise also of like Smashburgers, how people are obsessed with like the laciness and it’s just it’s just expected that the cheese will also become lacy. >> A agreed. >> So I think I think it’s that marriage of like every burger is now a smash burger and every smash burger has to have cheese on it and every sing has to be lacy and crispy. So I think that also has a lot to do with cheeseburgers kind of overstepping the hamburger in terms of popularity. I think almost because the meat is getting less important. >> You’re so right. >> Smash burger, like the best smash burgers are kind of made with fine ground 7030 commodity beef >> and small portions of it, like 2 oz balls. >> 2 oz balls that you’re smashing down till they just kind of become crispy, fatty, lacy carbon, >> you know, and then the cheese sort of becomes the star. The cheese is almost what’s like rehydrating that meat in a certain sense. We’re painting an ill picture of smash burgers here. They’re delicious. We love smashers. I love that. But the era of burgers that that we grew up in, an era of burger that I still like, nice thick 6 to 8 oz patty, >> grilled, seasoned really properly. >> I like those burgers, too. >> In a point where if you put a single slice of American cheese on an 8 oz patty, you don’t taste it. >> It’s gone. >> It just it disappears. >> It dissipates. It dissipates. >> Dissipates. >> I mean, it has a texture. >> Huge Acman and the Prestige. It just goes >> Still haven’t seen it. >> You know what the f You haven’t seen the Prestige? >> I haven’t seen The Prestige and the other movie that people think is the Prestige. Oh. Uh, The Illusionist. >> The Illusionist. Yeah, I’ve never seen that one. >> Never seen either. >> I did force Julia to watch Now You See Me and Now You See Me too. >> Oh, yeah. >> In a single day feature. >> No, but she forcing her to do it. >> But she wor she worked uh [laughter] >> Yeah, I forced her to eat a lentil cuz I keep insisting she’s not allergic to it. Yeah. >> And did you have an Ebi pen nearby? >> No, she doesn’t have that kind of allergy. It’s not in a >> I didn’t force her, but like she like I sort of somewhat allowed her to eat cuz she looked at it and went, “Is it lentil?” And I I said, “Yeah.” And she said, “I’m going to eat it anyway.” So, I guess I didn’t really >> You didn’t You were >> Yeah, but I didn’t like stop her. I don’t know if she wanted me to slap the lentil out of her hand, >> but she said like, “Oh, I felt sick.” But also, we were drinking like four days in a row >> because we were at a wedding. We’re at an Indian wedding. >> You guys are cute. >> I think we’re really cute. >> You guys are a cute couple. >> Uh, so anyways, we [laughter] talking >> thick burgers. >> Yes, >> the cheese is not as important, I believe. Unless it’s a very powerful cheese. >> I I’ll say this. If we’re using American as our as our baseline, as our what is the constant? Yes. >> I do think it has a textural benefit to it instead of like if you’re using like a cheddar or a Swiss or a pepperjack. The fudgy nature of a slice of cheese, a slice of American cheese is different texturally. Maybe not flavory, but definitely the texture of the cheese helps the burger experience. >> I agree entirely. So if I do do all hamburgers need cheese, not according to my own personal beliefs, >> but I’d like for them to be. >> I But if we’re talking about cheese, >> yeah, >> American >> is the best one. >> It’s a front runner. >> This is probably a new thing. >> It’s the one we’re most familiar with. I’ll say >> it is 100%. I think this is somewhat of a new phenomenon that goes handinhand with people no longer liking filemen, >> right? So we we did this a while ago talking about the best cut of steak >> where >> speak your truth >> the um America’s answer for what is your favorite cut of steak for the first time in history I think it was about 1015 years ago ribeye surpassed filetmenan >> fair >> right filetman was once like the pinnacle of luxury and what everybody aspired to >> what do you think steak you think filetmenan >> but bourdain wrote about this in medium raw which he wrote I think around the time of the financial collapse in 2008 >> okay >> where he talk in the rise of foodie culture where he talks about how Now your currency is no longer prestige. Your currency is knowledge and expertise. >> Oh, >> so as in like chefs no longer relying solely on prestige ingredients, but say a knowledge and expertise of maybe >> of technique of regional cuisines from other other places like David Chang and Mafuku noodle bar, right? Introducing bow that’s cooked with craft and ramen that’s cooked with craft, whatever that means, >> to a mainstream American audience. And I think a lot of that ended up like killing this kind of like prestige thing, but almost to the point where now we see any ingredient that is commodity, we consider it like populist, >> right? It’s like the music nerds who are like actually Sabrina Carpenter is like really revolutionary and good, >> right? It’s this idea that almost like um you can’t criticize anything that is popular in pop culture, >> okay? because its de facto nature of popularity kind of makes it >> so Sabrina Carpenter is the craft American cheese of burgers. >> Bingo. >> Okay. I love craft American cheese and I love Sabrina Carp. >> Same. She seems a lot of sense. >> But I but I think you know what I mean. Like in 20 years ago, >> I don’t think people would have said that American cheese is the best cheese for a burger. >> I think the answer would have been >> cheddar. >> I actually had a burger with cheddar. I went to a Apple Pan and I got both burgers, the steak burger and the hickory burger. And I always add cheese to it. And it’s cheddar, I believe. >> Let me tell you, it doesn’t hit the same. >> No, it does not. >> It just it kind of just like lays on the burger and it makes like this oily film. It’s because there’s so much oil content that’s not homogeneized the way that like Craft American is. Yeah. Yeah. >> That it just kind of just sat there and I’m and then you took a bite and like it kind of like like almost like a flat piece of wax paper just like dragged. >> Well, was it not fully melted? >> I I don’t think it was fully melted, but I would expect I mean I took it to go. I like allowed it to like travel and then I reheated it. >> Yeah. So, it was pretty disappointing. But the burger was good. But the cheese was a disappointing part of that burger. Should have just got it without cheese. Would have been delicious. Hold that thought, Nicole. It’s time for a brand new segment that I’m calling Operation Make Josh not feel like crap all the time because he’s very tired and would like to not feel that way. The acronym is not as clean as I want it, but it’s pretty true. So, here’s the thing. I have the best job in the world. It’s my literal dream job. I get to sit down and I yap all about food and then I get to eat all of the tastiest food in the world. And it’s very tough to complain and I still manage to do it because it really does take a toll on your mental and physical health. Previously, I’ve been going by the vibes-based method, VBM. It’s a much cleaner acronym this time. But I frankly found out that vibes aren’t enough and I need to actually find something that’s trackable and that I can actually improve. And that is why I’m wearing an aura ring. So this aura ring, it can help me track my sleep, stress, and activity levels. Again, things that I was always just going off vibes. is I’d look at my phone right before I go to bed, see what time I fell asleep, and roughly estimate when I wake up, but now I’m getting actual data that I can use to try and help improve my sleep, which of course improves recovery and then drops your stress levels. Like last night, I threw a dinner party and I just ate a bunch of really heavy food before I went to sleep, and then I woke up at about 3:00 in the morning with the meat sweats cuz that happens. And Oruring is actually able to tell me how that influences my day the next day. So, let’s check today’s results. So, let’s see what we got. All right, so I woke up with a readiness score of 84, which frankly, not too bad. I did skip my morning workout today because I wanted to prioritize sleep, and I’m a big fan of not working out. If you’re not actually rested and recovered, I think it actually might do more harm than good. My sleep score was 78. I’m going to click into that and see what it meant. 6 hours and 44 minutes, which for me is actually quite a lot of sleep. I tend to average somewhere around 5:45 to 6. Uh, but here’s an interesting thing. REM sleep. That’s my rapid eye movement. It’s only one hour and eight minutes, which is definitely suboptimal. And I think that has to do with me, you know, had a little bit of drinks, had a bunch of really heavy food. And so going forward, I know that’s something that you can still do on special occasions, of course, but it’s good to have the actual data behind it to know how it is affecting me. So over the next four weeks, I’m going to be checking in with you all on the updates for Operation Make Josh not feel like crap all the time because he’s very tired and wants to not feel that way. and I’m going to be giving you some insights into what I’m learning about how I can recover and rest better because Aura brings together sleep, stress, activity, and recovery to give you a full picture of your health. So, head over to orura.com/hotog to make wellness a daily practice. And thanks to Aura for being our sponsor. I would like to be very clear on my own personal American cheese stance here. One, there’s Craft Singles, which are pasteurized processed American cheese product. And then there’s our favorite cheeses like Bo’s Head or New School American cheese. >> I have a whole entire research doc about New School American cheese right here. >> New school American cheese is is really incredible. >> It is. If you’ve never had New American cheese, I highly recommend you you like Amazon it or something cuz it is so I love New American cheese. >> I think it’s I agree. >> It’s so good. I think it’s really great. It’s a Marvel. It’s a science marvel and it tastes so damn good. I feel like I could taste the difference between the two if you put like Craft American and New American. >> It’s funny because it’s a science marvel, but it’s really not. >> For me, for me it is. >> Well, sure. No, it’s like a It’s a novelty, but the reason So, American cheese, for people that don’t know, everyone’s like it’s plastic. It’s not plastic. It’s not plastic. >> Just a little. >> It’s literally, if you think about it, it is just milk melted with cheese that then a chemical has been added to it that solidifies it and emulsifies it, which means it binds the water, protein, and fat. That’s right. You tell. So, it’s literally just a brick of milk and cheddar effectively with sodium citrate, some sort of binding agent, and then you slice that. And why this is important for a burger, you said that the American cheese like melds really well with it. Agree entirely because it almost melts into its own sauce, especially within >> It makes a sauce, >> especially within a double cheeseburger. >> Oh, it makes a sauce. >> Right. This is also why I prefer uh Cooper Sharp, which is another great American product. Some people have told me that it’s not American cheese, but I believe it is legally classified as an American cheese. >> Interesting. Um, Cooper Sharp in a cheese steak, uh, it it melts with the steam of the meat and the onions to create its own sauce. Cheese whiz is already a sauce. I think gets too liquidy in a cheese steak. Provolone doesn’t melt well enough. That’s why you got to add mayonnaise to a prevalent cheese steak. >> I’m learning so much about cheese steaks. I’ve never had a cheese steak from from these places. >> I got to go to Philly. >> I got to go to Philly. But I think that’s the same thing with American cheese and burgers. I think it creates its own sauce. >> Yes. My counter to that would be there’s so many good burger sauces out there that taste so good. >> But melted cheese tastes so much better. >> I think you could focus more on a burger sauce with a different cheese and I I will profer one example. >> I know exactly the example you’re going to say. >> I don’t think you do. >> I think I do. I don’t think you do. >> You’re not going to father’s office right now? >> No, I’m not. >> Okay, fine then. Never mind. [laughter] I feel like what’s happened with our burger cultures, it’s gotten it’s gotten very homogeneized where places are either doing like the kind of like ketchup, mustard, mayo, or they’re doing the like thousand island special sauce, some sort of pink sauce that’s got some sort of pickles chopped up in it, whatever, ketchup, mayonnaise. >> Um, but if you were to use like an super sharp cheddar, >> like a really aed cheddar, doesn’t even have to be fancy. Use it till sharp cheddar. What do you mean sharp cheddar doesn’t melt? >> Doesn’t melt that great. >> Yeah, it’s not going to it’s not going to melt into a soup like American cheese. I want a soup. >> But say you had like even a smash burger, two slices of cheddar cheese, something with a lot of bite to it, and you had a ton of like raw onion, pickles, and like an English or Dijon mustard. >> I’m so hungry. >> Just like a sharp mustard, something horseradish with the sharp cheddar, the fatty beef, the the raw crunch of the onion. >> My eyes are closed. Okay. >> I think cheese works better in that scenario. Cheddar cheese works better than American cheese, >> man. I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t know if I feel that way. I don’t know the sharp. Well, what if we use instead of a sharp cheddar, what if we use something that’s a little bit more muted like a proolone or a Swiss? >> I don’t think a Swiss works in that. I think I think >> Oh, see, I don’t know if I agree with you. I think the nuttiness would add dimension that you’re missing from using cheddar. >> H with the way they mustard shine more, horseradish, pickles, Swiss. >> I think you’re getting enough of >> Sounds like a Reuben actually. It sounds like a Reuben at that point. It’s not a burger experience at that point. >> It is a burger experience. It’s still about the the ground beef, but to me the ground beef is being seasoned by the cheddar at that point. >> I understand. You know what I mean? So So you are seeing it as like whenever is this a double burger in your head. >> I’m imagining a double burger. Let’s stay in the Smashburger universe here. So you’re So it’s because you are are conflating like the sauce of American cheese the sausification of American cheese to the cheesiness of a cheddar burger a double smashed right. Do you know what I’m saying? >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Okay. So you’re using the cheese as a seasoning agent while the American cheese is more of a textural element. >> Yes. And I think that textural element and the seasoning level of an American cheese which is more mildly seasoned than a sharp cheddar because again this is just cheddar mixed with milk. It’s diluted effectively, >> but it’s good dilution. >> It’s good dilution. It’s great. >> But it’s proper dilution. >> A a classic double double from In-N-Out or just your local Smashburger spot with Thousand Island. Put some lettuce, pickles, tomatoes, onions, whatever. That’s an incredible flavor combination. I think it’s almost because the seasoning level of the Thousand Island, including the sweetness, I think, matches the seasoning level of the American cheese. Does that make sense? >> Yes, I understand what you’re saying. So, my issue with the burger you you the aforementioned burger that you were talking about, I don’t think that flavor profile is as attractive to the average American. >> Oh, that’s totally fine. But I’m talking about I’m talking about like from our as we described, we are very smart professional chefs. >> Let me use the bite. >> I think we [laughter] >> I’m just kidding. Um >> I think I think there’s a world in which there are different cheeses on burgers used in very different contextes. Do you like blue cheese on a burger? >> Love blue cheese on a burger. >> I love blue cheese on a burger >> within context. And what I do is I generally mash the blue cheese with mayonnaise and like a lot of like cracked pepper sometimes. >> You make a sauce out of the cheese. You don’t. >> Not a sauce. It’s more of a paste. >> I Okay. Okay. But why don’t you just get a soft gorgonzola? >> I don’t like patronizing Italians. >> I don’t like to buy things from Italians. That’s why I don’t get a gorgonola. Also, Gorgon is not even that soft of a blue. Like a rogue four would be like >> Okay, sure. Rogue. >> No, if I’m rocking like a heavy Stilton and the only reason I have blue cheese in my house is if I want to make a wedge salad, sure, >> which is pretty often to be clear, >> but then I’m always I always have like a half a thing of blue cheese left over. And I did make this recently. I made like a It was like a very like coarse ground steak burger. >> I got my own meat [snorts] grinder. >> Oh, no way. Good. >> Thanks, Thomas Harlander, for the wedding gift. Um, he was like, “How do you get into your registry? I don’t know the password.” And I was like, “Me neither. Can you just get me a meat grinder? [laughter] >> Just gave you cash. I hope that’s okay. >> It was nice. I would have bought a meat grinder with it. Um, but anyways, like I I basically seasoned this burger like a steak, right? And then I made like quick fried onions, not sauteed, just kind of like hard >> hard on the edges. Yeah. >> Hard on the edges. Put a ton of that on the burger. I think like dressed arugula cuz I had it. >> And then I mashed the the I mashed the blue cheese with a little bit of mayonnaise and like spread that on the bun to hold it all together. And it was an incredible burger. So you didn’t use it as So you didn’t use it on the burger. You used it as a condiment sauce. >> You did. Yes, you did. >> Yes, you’re right. >> So So I mean, for me, whenever I think of a cheeseburger, the cheese has to somehow be melted onto the meat in order for it to be a cheeseburger. Or else that whole beautiful thing you were talking about of like them marrying together and like sandwiching together, it’s all for not at that point. But if I had the blue cheese on that burger, I wouldn’t have wanted an American or a Swiss or a cheddar, you know, like I want that blue cheese to be the cheese flavor. >> But you made the cheese into a sauce. You didn’t You did not use the cheese as cheese in that case. You made a You made a condiment. You didn’t allow the cheese to act like a cheese. >> Yeah, but I made a condiment. I made a condiment that was a perfect replacement and substitute good for cheese. >> You consider that a cheeseburger? You considered what you made to be a cheeseburger? [laughter] >> What? >> Am I crazy? It was burger and has cheese. >> But what I’m trying to say is if I made >> I’m not saying it’s No, it’s like say it’s like saying Okay, go ahead. >> Listen to me. It’s like if I took Don’t be mad. >> I’m mad. >> Don’t be mad. It’s like you took Let’s just say I made a delicious thousand island sauce and I shredded a/4 cup of Parmesan in there. Is that a cheeseburger now? >> Of course. [laughter] >> I’m so hungry. >> Of course it’s a cheeseburger. It’s a burger that has cheese in it. It’s a cheeseburger. >> No. No. >> It’s like saying Oh, you >> I understand that it doesn’t eat like a fast food burger, but that’s like what is the purpose of a cat? >> The purpose of a cat is to be cuddly and fluffy and adorable and whatever. >> And be cute, right? Cute. Careless cats. Disgusting creatures. [laughter] Gargoyles. >> Gargoy. >> Good for people with allergies. They’re still cats. >> That’s what I’m saying. They’re still cats despite the fact that they’re horrifying and go against almost any reason that you would have a cat to be fluffy and cute. It’s still a cat. I’m saying they’re still a cat in the same way that the cheeseburger is still a cheeseburger. >> You think they’re gar coils? [laughter] That’s so mean. Sphinx cats are so elegana. Have you ever seen a video of somebody massaging coconut oil on their cat and the cat’s just like >> Yeah, that is like truly the worst thing I’ve ever seen. >> It’s like massaging a chicken before you roast it in the oven. >> See, I like that. But I think that’s because that’s dead. [laughter] That’s dead skinned bird flesh. >> It’s like putting compound butter. >> I think the cats already look like they’re feathered. Oh, they’re so >> and ready to be roasted and I don’t like the hairless cats. The point is >> I’m so mad at you right now. Actually, right now, I can’t believe you’re saying that if I take cheese and I make a sauce out of the cheese, it’s still a cheeseburger. I cannot disagree with you more. This is really disappointing. >> What if I mean, >> you’re shockingly disappointing. >> It’s not the [laughter] >> Josh. Shockingly disappointing. Now with 15% more disappointment. [laughter] What about like a lamb? A place has a lamb burger and they also some sort of haresa i aioli and a feta and a there’s they’ll put a satsiki on it even though it’s like the worst condiment for a burger. >> Yeah, I wouldn’t eat it. >> But like is that a cheeseburger still? There’s there’s feta on the >> feta on the lamb. >> You’re saying that if the feta is on the lamb >> contact with the b >> eventually it all makes contact in your mouth. [laughter] >> No, you’re not getting it. A cheese. >> I know what you’re saying, but I think it’s a weird hill to die on. >> Listen, when you go to In-N-Out, can you get cold cheese on a burger? Yes. Have I done it before? Yes. Was it gross? Yes. Is it still a cheeseburger? Yes. >> Because it’s on the burger. >> Because it’s on the burger. >> But if if the >> cheese was cut up and poured into the into like a sauce, then no, it’s not anymore. Now it’s just something weird. >> But you’re saying that like cheese whiz on a burger isn’t a cheeseburger. >> That is a cheese product. Cheese whiz is not like a condiment sauce. Is it? Is cheese. >> Cheese whiz is semiolid at >> 80%. It’s like 80% cheese. >> Yeah, cheese whiz is the next evolution. If you have cheddar here, if you have cheddar on the right, American in the middle, cheese whiz to the left of that, and then just a jug of milk right next to that. Cheese whiz is just diluted American with a ton of extra salt. It is in in way more orange. I don’t know. I don’t know. There’s something There’s something within me. If it’s like if it’s a cold sauce that’s being treated like a condiment and it’s not warm and like and like gooey and soft and marrying with the burger fat and warmth, then I don’t consider it a cheeseburger. But if you are making like a greer besamel to go like like a monou sauce to go over your burger, then that is a cheeseburger >> because it’s it’s like directly hitting the burger and it’s meant to be dressing. Yes, but if you’re making some sort of weird like cold mayonnaise condiment, which I’m sure is delicious. I’m not saying it’s not. >> You’re saying like a like a parmesan heavy Caesar dressing on. >> That’s not a cheeseburger. >> Does not make it a cheeseburger. I >> But if you put a parmesan fre on there, it is a cheeseburger. >> No way, man. Parmesan. Can we Parmesan is not a cheese. Parmesan doesn’t count as cheese. >> What is it? Parmesan doesn’t count as cheese. Yeah. It’s It’s the same thing as like miso. Parmesan is more miso than cheese. the the difference between the the the chasm, if you will, between American cheese and parmesan is way smaller than between parmesan and miso. >> You know what I mean? >> I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t think >> I’ve I ate way too I’ve made too many burgers with a damn Parmesan Freo crisp. >> And you don’t consider that a cheeseburger? >> No, they suck. It just cuts the roof of your mouth. You bite in, it goes out. >> Well, just because it sucks doesn’t mean that it’s not valid. No, I agree. >> Sphinx cat exists and looks like a rotisser. It’s not >> because you’re right. I got to stand on my principles. >> Um, but aside from American, I mean, American is the answer for both of us for that’s the best cheese on cheeseburger. But if you >> Well, let’s not lock it in. Yeah, let’s not lock it in. >> What What could What could you also consider? >> Let’s lock it in. >> I I think I stand by what I said with context dependent cheesing on burgers. I am a big fan of using a burger as your own sort of creative canvas. >> A burger is a canvas and you’re the artist, >> you know. So, so for instance, like I counter I grew up going to you’d go to a Carl’s Jr. and they’d have like a mushroom Swiss burger. And I still think like mushrooms work well with Swiss in that regard because they’re both kind of mild, earthy, and nutty, right? >> You know what I mean? So, you get a bunch of like hardcooked mushrooms on a single thin burger patty, just like a thick wedge, not not wedge, a thick slice of Swiss that’s perfectly melted on there. It’s not your quintessential burger with American cheese and thousand island, whatever. >> But it is like a very fun change of pace burger, >> but it’s not the best. >> It’s not the best. >> What do you consider? Well, I think the best cheese might just be I think I I don’t think there’s anything better than American cheese on a burger. >> You know what could compete, but but everybody’s been too much of a coward. No, Gouda kind of sucks on a burger. Gouda weirdly like smoked guda. I love smoked gouda. >> But the but there needs to be a complimentary accessory of >> smoked guda. Bacon. >> Yeah, it needs friends. It needs friends. >> Sauteed onions. >> It needs friends. >> Caramelized onions. I mean, >> I just said it needs friends. >> Gouda kind of doesn’t work. That doesn’t melt that well, does it? Why do I feel like I’ve always had bad luck with melting Gouda? >> I don’t know. I’ve had okay luck. Oh, Monster is pretty good. >> Monster’s worse. Gouda. >> Oh, it’s creamier. It melts better. There’s a lot of these old man cheeses. >> You threw up with Monster from your dad, right? >> Honey, yes, I did. >> All All our dads went to Arby’s and ate Monster and voted for Ronald Reagan. It’s just what they [laughter] did. >> My dad didn’t vote in the 80s. He wasn’t He was in Iran. >> Fair point. >> He came in 1990. >> He voted for Bill Clinton. Um but >> racist. [laughter] >> What? Why is that racist? >> Who was he against? >> Bill Clintondale, Danquil. I don’t know who I voted for. Um the Spiro Agno. These are names but >> Agnu. Okay. >> But the point is Monster is a dad cheese that I don’t actually think brings anything table with havari. >> Oh, I love havari. >> What What does it bring to you that any other cheese cannot? >> Listen, I consider cheese Okay, you said parmesan is closer to miso. >> I think cheese’s textural component is almost more important than the flavor it brings. >> Is this for when it eaten cold or melted or both? >> Any any. It’s just it’s just the texture of the cheese is 50% of the experience. I’m sorry. The texture of the cheese is 40% of the experience. The flavor is like 30 and the 10% is temperature if my math is right. I don’t know. I’m not very good at math. >> I wasn’t following that either. I was just >> basically the texture is the most important component of cheese in my opinion. >> Okay. >> As a cheese connoisseur. >> I get that. >> And havari and monster have this beautiful creaminess >> and a texture that would work well on a burger. Like they melt well. >> I love it. I don’t know that I’ve ever had a Havari cheeseburger. >> Me either, but maybe I I would eat it. >> A fun dill. Like I love a dild havari. You get a dilled havari. You get some dill pickles on there. You make that a pickley ass burger. >> Oh my god. >> That’s probably incredible. >> Oh my god. Yeah, >> we’ve never done that. >> I would love a havari dill smash burger. >> I want to throw out a cheese. A dad cheese that I love. Ylesburg. >> Oh, the nuttiest of nutty cheeses. >> I cannot consume Yarlesburg and be serious. I would love a Yarlesburg with bacon >> cheeseburger. Pretty much just that Yarlesburg bacon hamburger patty and mayonnaise. >> See how that Try that on for size. >> I mean, >> I think that’d be really goat cheese. What are we doing with goat cheese? >> Hate it. Goat cheese melts grainy. >> Oh my god. Imagine goat cheese and and like beets on a burger. >> Pickled beets. Goat cheese. We just need to start >> Come on. We need to start a burger. >> What about pimento cheese? >> I want to bring that pimento cheese. Pimento cheese on a burger is fun because it’s just mayonnaise and cheese. >> Is that >> pimento cheese is just mayonnaise blended with cheese? Do people need to know this? In pimentos, of course, but that’s the main that’s what the actual texture is. >> Does that debunk everything I said? >> I think so, cuz you’re talking about me making a sauce with the blue. To be clear, my blue cheese wasn’t like a blue cheese dressing. I literally just mashed it into mayonnaise until it was like a slightly more spreadable paste. >> Um, but yeah, I think there’s a lot of these fresh mozzarella bad on a burger. It doesn’t really offer anything. cheese. Pepper jack. Pepper jack needs to go to jail. >> How could that possibly be the worst cheese? >> We’ve talked about how much we hate pepperjack cheese. >> No, I talked about how I I I think that you should just use Jack and then add peppers in the way that you see fit, but pepper jack can’t be worse than adding >> a ball of bara is the worst thing to [laughter] put on a cheeseburger. That’s the worst. A ball of bara. >> Someone’s doing that. >> Stratachella. >> Somebody some a-hole is putting strateella on a burger and they need to be put down. >> Um [laughter] I think it’s tough. I think it’s tough to argue against American. >> I think American >> It’s tough to argue against American. But I will say I think it’s only tough to argue against American because of how homogeneous our cheeseburger culture has become. >> Okay. >> I think if we opened ourselves up to more creative cheeseburger toppings and combos, and I understand that that’s not good for scalability in chain restaurants, and that seems to be what’s playing right now. People setting up, you know, uh smashburger food trucks and carts and and small operations. And it it behooves you to be streamlined like In-N-Out has been. Um, however, I think we need to do more exploring. >> We need to do more exploring of the relationship between cheese, meat, and autrammont, and bun. >> And I want to be that explorer. Havari burger with pickled herring coming at you. [music] Fall is the perfect season to invest in yourself. And what better way than learning a new language. 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That’s unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit rosettasone.com/hot to get started and claim your 50% off today. >> Don’t miss out. Go to rosettastone.com/hotog and start learning today. >> You all right, Nicole? I’ve heard what you and I have to say. Now it’s time to find out what other wacky edi are rattling out there in the universe. It’s time for a little segment we call opinions are like casserole. We’re going to get to the first opinion, but I I need to set up a little bit of a backstory here because I got an email with the subject line Josh Josh exclamation point, which is a great way to get somebody’s attention, >> especially someone like Josh. >> Especially someone whose name is Josh. Don’t do it if the person’s name is Marissa. But this was from somebody named Kevin Chico. It simply says, “Hopefully this makes it through the pile and gets to your eyes and ears. Not the most traditional opinions like Cassell’s entry, but my fingers are crossed. Um, below is a link to a video, but who clicks on links in strange emails? And I clicked on the link >> in the strange email. That’s right. And we’re going to roll that clip for you. If you’re if you’re on audio only, we will describe the insanity that ensues. But Kevin Trio, this is a big salute to you. Let’s play that clip. >> Hey Josh and Nicole. Sorry, I’m out of breath. Just doing a little pre-workout climb. Uh, big fan of everything you two do. Last meals, first meals, struggle meals, cheap meals, every dang thing in the mythical kitchen, and especially the podcast. First opinion, um, if you’re making strawberry shortcake with anything other than a drop biscuit, you’re doing it wrong. If you’re using angel food cake, just stop masserating those poor strawberries for nothing. They deserve better and you know it. So, I’ve been a professional skydiver base jumper for about 18 years. Have over 14,000 jumps and I love to cook but I’m not trained. So, I was thinking I teach you to jump, you teach me to cook. And then somewhere in between we go slim out some reps at the gym. This is the metal every time I die. Glass Shaw, whatever. >> Yep. Nicole, same deal applies to you once you’re comfortably settled into motherhood. One second to get ready and I’ll give you my final opinion. >> There is no such word as canoli’s. It’s canoli. Um, and I would say if you use the former then there is a special place in Italian hell for you. And I’ll see you there. Have fun. SEE YOU DOWN THERE. OH GOD. >> What a rockar. >> What a rockar. >> What a damn rock. >> We all got to eat. We all got to die. And I got to fly. Love you guys. [laughter] >> We love you too, Kevin. Kevin’s guts to fly never stop flying out there. Kevin Rico. >> Our listeners are cool as hell. >> They’re cool as hell, but you got to if we’re ranking them, you got to put Kevin up there. How would he get cooler? He also seems incredibly nice and jovial and filled with a >> dev. That was awesome. That was freaking awesome. >> We have a lot of things to address. Kevin won. Like truly, thank you. That >> that was very very cool. >> Absolutely rips. Um, do I go skydiving with this? I mean, do I have to go do I have to go? Do I get to go? Do I have to go base? So, he’s base jumping, but he also I think you would probably start with skydiving, not base jumping. >> I don’t know how it works. I don’t know. >> I would be guessing. Um, but anyways, he’s off paragliding. Does that count? >> I don’t know. Ask Kevin. [laughter] >> Um, we’ll I’ll maul it over. I will maul over the idea. It would be really cool though. Bring Kevin on episode of cheat meals. We cheat meal. I go skydiving with him. Hit some gym reps. He trains Navy Seals. That’s really cool. Leave some comments if you want to see me >> skydive. I feel like I could dissociate enough on skydiving because you’re so high up. >> It’s like if you’re in front of a crowd of 20 people, you get more nervous than if you’re in front of a crowd of 5,000. >> Sure. >> Because 5,000 is just too many people to even comprehend. It’s It’s too much sky. You’re just You jump out of a plane, you got Kevin whispering in your ear while you’re strapped to it like I got you. >> So, um yeah, I need to put some more thought into it. I need to frankly I need to convince my wife Julia. >> I think you should do it. I think it’s good to do. I think you should try. If I wasn’t pregnant, I would do it. I love I’ve always wanted to skydive soon. >> And I’m gonna bring up my statistic of I’m more likely to die in my commute home than I am. >> Yeah, man. Who cares about that? >> You know, she loves when I bring that up. >> Who cares about that? You [laughter] should do it. Um, opinion number one, I agree. >> Yeah. >> I in my own cookbook, I wrote a I wrote a recipe for strawberry shortcake, and let me tell you, it’s biscuit. It’s just a biscuit. >> Yeah. And it’s it’s better. It’s It’s way better. >> Million times better. >> One, a drop biscuit. It it it’s super simple. Well, drop biscuits for people that don’t know, it’s like you make a kind of generally like a looser biscuit dough, but roughly roughly using the same technique. >> It’s softer and it’s probably mixed in a bowl instead of like laid out for you to like and covered in in uh flour to punch out. >> Yeah. So, you don’t need to worry about like, oh, am I mashing the butter too hard and rolling this out? Is the bis gummy gummy? No, it’s just like you take a spoon and you go and you drop the biscuit onto a baking sheet, >> bake it off, slice it open, cover it in masserated strawberries and like lightly whipped cream. >> That’s one of the best desserts. >> I agree. >> I grew up eating it on angel food cake because >> So did I. >> Cuz Angel food cake is like the low fat cake. >> It was readily available. It was next to the strawberries. Anyways, when you were shopping for strawberries, they had the little the little divvy one. You remember the divvy one? >> Oh my god. Yeah, >> the one with the divot. >> Okay, those are those are fun, though. >> I mean, it’s what we grew up with. So, what else do we know? But yeah, I agree. Biscuit over angel food cake any day for sure. >> And also don’t do what my dad did, which is use the low-fat Cool Whip straight out of the freezer section. Um, it just tastes like shaving cream and Splenda. You don’t want it. Uh, next opinion, canoli is not a word. >> I don’t know. I’m going to leave it to the Italian to tell me what to do. And I trust you. And I don’t want to go to Italian hell. They probably have like what’s it called? A mochio, right? That’s the evil eye. Mochio. >> I don’t know. I I would guess that Mochio is a slur in Italian for a group that I don’t actually know. >> You wear so you wear something to protect you from the mochio, which is the evil eye. I also believe in the evil eye. >> Is it the hand? >> The kamsa. >> It is, but I believe they have a uh chili pepper that um deters the mochio. I might be completely wrong. I’m so sorry. >> I also don’t want to go to Italian hell. It’s probably just a bunch of sabarro. Um but how words get naturalized into English in terms of their pronunci in terms of their pluralization specifically is really really interesting. So in Italian it’d be one canolo multiple multic canoli right but then when you are taking a word sort of using it fluidly in English we see this with >> perogi right >> where in in Polish it’s a single perogue it’s multiple perogi >> but in English for whatever reason in America we call them perogis and a singular perogi you see this with tamalei as well >> tamal >> is a singular tamal is tamal do you say unam Tamal or you say un tamali? I would say unamal if I’m saying un um but if I’m saying hey can I please have tamal tamalei please that’d be great thank you so much ma’am you know then I would probably say tamalei um but in Spanish it’s tamal and then plural is tamales but in English American English we tend to say tamalei and tamales so there’s just a certain function of how language works >> sure >> right where we like still sort of honor the native name of a dish like a canol uh and I just drop all the vowels completely and call it a canol. >> You really do. >> Uh that’s just a natural function of how language works. And I think you sort of need to take the evolution of language >> with a grain of salt and understand that this is how uh language morphs. I actually recently shot something with Hank Green. Uh check it out when it comes out. It’s going to be incredible. But we were talking about pronunciation and language when it comes to foods and like how we take something like spaghetti and it’s a lot I don’t know it it feels like it’s been more naturalized into English than something like pyuda. >> You know what I mean? Because it’s been so popular for hundreds of years. >> It traveled a lot. The pleuda didn’t travel as much as spaghetti did. >> No, it’s not. But I boy do I love eating pyotas. >> I went to Gaya two days ago. >> Nice. [snorts] Uh, but what Hank did is he actually had like 15 people who spoke 15 different languages say the word croissant. >> Oh, cool. Okay. >> Because I I don’t know if you know this in in Britain they say like >> they say quasant >> because they’re so close to France and they probably eat more quasant >> that when they hear an American sayant, >> it sounds very silly to them. Whereas when we hear they them say taco, >> going to go out for some tacos, that was very Australian, but whatever. It sounds very silly to us. it’s just a proximity location thing, right? But Hank was like, “This seems to be almost a bit of like an American problem where other countries don’t seem to think about this type of stuff too much.” And so we literally had somebody who was speaking Mandarin Chinese, Korean, say the word croissant and how it gets sort of like naturalized into their language because people all over the world love to eat croissants and canoli. >> Sure. >> So all that to say, chill out, man. Come on. Just eat the canol. That’s all I have to say about that. >> Thanks again for that cool video. >> That was a great video. >> Hey cuties. Okay, so my opinion casserole today is that the salad that I’m about to describe to you is good. >> Um, and no one else has ever heard of it. So, growing up, my mom used to make this salad and it was romaine lettuce. >> Okay. >> Shredded cheddar cheese. >> Okay. >> Two like thick pineapple slices from the can and the dressing was mayonnaise. >> I don’t know if that’s a southern thing. It sounds like it would be more of a Midwestern thing, but we live in the South >> and it really slapped so hard and every time I try to make it like in front of other people, I get shamed for it. >> Sorry. >> But I still think it’s good. >> Anyways, um Nicole, congratulations. Oh my gosh, you’re so cute. And I’ll talk to you later. Bye. >> Thanks. Oh my god. I found I found a recipe on simply on Julia simplys.com >> for best pineapple cheese mayonnaise salad. >> Listen, the word salad >> down here in Decada, Georgia. Sorry. Go ahead, Nicole. >> The word salad, what the heck does that mean? >> I don’t know. >> It means small salted bits of food coming from the >> Salmaagundi. Yes, >> it’s not where it comes from. >> Where does it come from then? It come just comes from the word salt. Sal s sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal sal salad like little salted things >> like I was saying don’t let anybody yuck your yump even us cuz my instinct was ew and who are we? >> I I hope this is actually your blog that I’m reading but the fact that uh this person seems to remember a thing from their childhood and they were in the south. I would almost guarantee that this came from one dull canned pineapple recipe on the back of one magazine that was popular in one community. >> Sure. >> Because that’s how recipes used to spread. And back then we we kind of didn’t know what to do with pineapple, so you might as well put some cheese, mayonnaise, and lettuce on it. [snorts] And like I don’t know, I wouldn’t not eat this. >> Sure. I mean, I would try it, >> but I don’t know if I would love the flavor profile. But I’m glad that you love the flavor profile because again, don’t let nobody yuck your yum. Not even us. >> No. anytime a new fruit was introduced to society or a new food in general. Like some of the the first recipes with peanut butter were just like >> peanut butter on butter lettuce, you know, serve. >> You didn’t know what to do with it. >> Yeah. And like I don’t know who’s going to say peanut butter on butter lettuce is bad. You know what I mean? >> Not me. >> Not me, man. >> I like it on celery. >> Not me. People like to make fun of that banana wrapped in ham with Hollands on it. I eat the hell out of that. It sounds great. [snorts] >> Bananas and ham. >> Sounds like our other podcast. Hamnas. >> Welcome to Banana. Eating the >> the Benamnas. [laughter] >> Benhamness is good. >> That’s all our time. We got to go. We got to go. We got to go. I was having fun, too. We got to go. Thank you so much for stopping by. A hot dog is a sandwich. We got new episodes on our audio platforms on [music] Wednesdays and our video platforms, which you’re really going to want to see Kevin Chico jump off of a giant some sort of radio tower. What was that? >> I think it was a radio tower. >> Some radio tower. Um, check us out on YouTube. We launch every Sunday. >> If you want to be featured on opinions or like casserles, hit us up at 833 DogPod 1. >> I’m sorry about my glasses being smudged and my hair being messed up. >> I’m sorry that I couldn’t fix your glasses. I did the thing on your glasses. >> And hey, if you like seeing videos of Nicole and I, you can go watch all of our other cheeky [music] shenanigans over on our videos on the Mythical Kitchen channel, which is a really fun time. See you guys next time.