Welcome to Ear Biscuits, I’m Link. And I’m Rhett. This week at the round table of dim lighting we are exploring the question, how do you balance living in the moment verus documenting the moment? Takin’ pictures man. Takin’ pictures. This is the question from Ashley@Fancymcgriddles. Thank you for the submission Ashley. On a weekend camping trip I took no pictures. This is her talking not me. I’m reading her question at this point. Right, I follow, most people also do. It was nice to be away from my phone, but I’m sad I don’t have any photo memories to look back at. Extreme, that’s extreme. How do I decide, Yeah it is extreme, not to take any photos on a trip. How do I decide if it’s better to snap photos, versus live in the moment phone free? #Earbiscuits. We’re gonna dig in on this question. This is the question we’re gonna explore. I think there’s an element of memory and memory’s relationship to photos. But then once you talk about photos, you start talkin’ ’bout the Gram. And then you start talkin’ about all of these, there’s a lotta tension between livin’ in the moment and takin’ these photographs, that people have been takin’, And then what do you do with them? I didn’t know it, but I had slowly developed some philosophy. And you know as we lead into Thanksgiving, or if you’re watchin’ the video version, just basking in the aftermath of that, you could find yourself with lotsa photos or none, or somewhere in the middle so. Photos tend to happen more around the holidays. It depends on how good lookin’ your family is. It’s nice that we wrap our minds around this. Some people have members of their family that don’t wanna be in pictures. Oh gosh, well we gotta get, I’ll get into that too. Based on my Thanksgiving. I know that happens with your family. Speakin’ of Thanksgiving, there’s a big Black Friday sale lastin’ through Sunday at Mythical.com. We got Mythical merch up to 40% off. So when you’re thinkin’ about gettin’ stuff for yourself, or other people for the holidays, and takin’ advantage of those sales, don’t forget about Mythical.com. Yeah speaking of back and black, I wanna tell you a little something and then ask you a question. Okay. Before we get into the question. We live in a place where there are black widows. That’s right. And it is not uncommon to find a black widow, in fact– I’d find it back in North Carolina too, but I have found, I think I’ve found more out here around my house. Oh I have found, I don’t think I ever saw one in North Carolina. Well I probably did. They existed. But I’ve seen them, if you tell me, hey boy, find me a black widow. Like if you come to my house and you say that. And no one’s ever done that. But if somebody did do that, like if the black widow collector. Oh. Came. The grim reaper of black windows. Seven minutes I could have one. Seven minutes I could have one in a jar. I know where one is. In my backyard too. So in like 30 seconds I could have one. ‘Cause I know where one is. Okay well this is, we are definitely gonna get into it in a second ’cause you know where one is and he’s still there. Yeah. Okay so, and also there’s brown widows. Which apparently are even– What, you talkin’ about a brown recluse? No there’s, I think it’s a brown widow. Isn’t there a brown widow? I dunno. Well maybe I got bad information, but somebody told me about a brown widow. Kiko’s looking this up. Because in my old house, that I moved from, there are. There was a buncha brown widows at least that’s what. And Kiko just confirmed they do exist. They still have a red hourglass on their abdomen? From what I remember yes. It basically looks like a black widow, but it’s brown, and I think that it’s not as poisonous but there’s more of ’em, and it hurts even less, but then it hurts. Anyway, I found one, two nights ago, just out there. And so Shepherd has found this, while hiking last year, he found this stick that looks like one of the walking sticks, that if you ever go into one of those shops at like a national park and they’re sellin’ like walking sticks. Like a gift shop yeah. That is a nice walking stick. I’m thinking about getting one, but you never actually get one because, what am I gonna do with this walking stick. I don’t need it to walk. I think if I’m gonna do that I’m just gonna go full ski poles. You know the people who are like really gettin’ hot on the hikin’. I’ve seen the ski poles. They got like the, they look like ski poles and there’s two of ’em. Yeah this is more like a Gandalf situation. This is like a staff. I don’t think you need one. I think if you think you need one, you really need two. I think actually havin’ one makes it worse than havin’ none. Yeah you get asymmetrical leg syndrome. Anyway, right at the bottom of, he had his staff, calling it his staff now. Oh he bought one? No he found one on a hike. And it is incredible. It’s way taller than him. It’s big enough for me. It’s probably almost six fee tall. And it is a perfectly straight thing. And I’ve actually talked to him about how we need to sand it down and like get it lacquered. Shellac it? So then we, yeah like take it to a national parks store and sell it for $25. So you’d be like one of those guys out front. Be like don’t buy the walking sticks inside. Hey I gotcha, I gotcha stick. My son found this one. I got ya stick right over here. Come on over here. But in the meantime, while we’re waiting to shellac it, it is just leaning against the house. And between the staff and the house there was a web, and in the middle of that web, there was a giant black widow. So I have– When you say giant, how giant are you talkin’? As big as they get. So a fat one. Oh gosh. Like that. That could cover your eye and eyebrow. So I did what I always do when I, now first of all, I understand spiders are good, so don’t give me that okay. I know spiders catch other insects et cetera, et cetera. They’re parta the ecosystem. But I don’t want a black widow attached to something that my child is going to grab. And it’s one thing to see black widows like in a garden area, like kinda around your house. It’s another thing to see them attached to your house. ‘Cause that’s what this one was. Attached to somethin’ that’s made to be touched. And I think that once the black widow has made contact with my domicile, its rights have ended. And then subsequently its life will end. I’m not Mr. Put it in a Jar. No, this is a spider. What I do is I go, I grab spider killer spray, that’s what I got, not a sponsor. You got spider killer spray? Spider killer spray. I got it on Amazon. It comes in a orange spray thing, can. And of course– You already own this spray? I’ve had it for, I’ve had it ever since I saw those first black widows and brown widows around my house. The last one. Dang I need some of that. I mean I got wasp and hornet spray, but I never got– Ah the spiders will laugh in the face. The spiders will drink the hornet spray, like it’s La Croix. No impact, no effect. You gotta get spider killer. Spiders drink La Croix? The ones around my house. They’re in California. Poor spiders don’t have a husband any more. Out there just gettin’ thirsty. So I said, Shepherd! Come here boy, I got a lesson. I’m sure he comes runnin’ when you say you got a lesson. Yeah, yeah. And so– You didn’t say that. No I just said, Shepherd come here. I found a black widow. And he was like oh. ‘Cause early in your testimony you said, Shepherd come here I got a lesson. I was thinkin’ I got a lesson. And you were embodying your thoughts. I was implying that. And so it was already dark, and we shined a phone light on this black widow. I took the spider spray and I just sprayed it directly on her? Her yeah. So if they look like a black widow are they all females? Definitely. Is there like a, there’s a black widow that’s like the widower and he looks different? Mm-hm, yeah. Okay. He’s brown. And so I sprayed her. And she reacted. She was not happy. This was not La Croix. This was not hornet spray. What did she do? She began to go up her web. I’m feelin’ sorry for this– This is exactly what I wanted to get at, okay. She’s lost her husband. I’m tellin’ ya. She’s going, Now she’s gettin’ rained on. This spider is going up its web, clearly impacted by spider spray, the spider killer spray. Me and my little boy are watching it happen. Kind of enjoying it. It’s going up this thing, it’s getting slower, and slower, and slower until it goes, I mean it probably went like six or seven feet. Oh that’s a big web. To the top of this thing that was on the house. And eventually it just sort of just stopped, and sorta curled a little bit, and that was the moment of death. Time of death, approximately 7:32 p.m. Stop, drop, shut ’em down, open up shop oh. Now we live in world, where a not insignificant percentage of you listening, will be upset with me, because I killed a spider and watched it die slowly. And I can tell you’re open to hearing their arguments. Your preemptive disgust. You can’t even hear from ’em man. So all right before I continue– I’ll embody ’em. Okay, before I– I feel bad man. You lose your husband. Why? You get sprayed, all of a sudden, what if all of a sudden is rained on you, and you realized it was poison? Why do you have a spider that you’re just letting be? You talkin’ about Mary. Mary quite contrary. You named her? She’s not stuck to anything that anyone’s gonna grab. ‘Cause she’s underneath this, the counter that’s on the back of my house. You know the yard counter that I have. The counter where you like put out food when you have me and my family over? Yeah, but you know, the spider’s underneath it. And way down there and– Hey I’m comin’ over and I’m bringin’ the spider killer. And I’m gonna bring my son and we’re gonna film it. Well I was afraid that Jade was gonna get up there. Yeah it could kill your dog. So to be honest, I didn’t name the spider. And I intended to kill the spider. But I was afraid. Because I didn’t have anything. And it was kinda hard, I have to squat down and then there’s like a electrical box, and then a little three-inch gap, and then there’s the wall. And she’s in, she was danglin’ in that three-inch gap. So I was like, I’m gonna go get a broom, and I’m gonna jam that spider to death. I’m gonna jam it to death. But I didn’t know spider spray existed. So I was gonna jam it to death, but I knew that the chances of it running away were very high. You gotta assume that this is a thing, I mean spider spray, yeah. Okay, but you got a broom. And then when I was, I didn’t want that to happen. That’s what I didn’t When I was walkin’ with the broom. want to happen. When I was walkin’ to the broom, I got, it’s a long ways to my broom. By the time I got the broom, I didn’t know why I was goin’ for the broom. I’d forgotten. And then I remembered a coupla times, including right now, that I never did anything about Mary. You know ’cause Mary is having babies. That’s what she does. Little egg sac full of little poisonous black widows that can infect your dog and your children. I need you to come over with that spider spray. Okay. I’m not gonna buy, I don’t like havin’ that stuff around. I don’t believe in it. I think it’s violent, I think it’s wrong. So I’m not gonna own it, but I’d like for you to bring some over and kill the spider. The reason I have no guilt associated with this is because that spider does not have the nervous system capable of contextualizing suffering. And therefore, doesn’t have the ability to experience suffering in the way that you do, and you then project onto a spider, because you’ve seen movies like “Charlotte’s Web”, where the spider can talk. Well that spider was animated And spell. and that spider was voiced by a person. And it was story written, not by a spider, but by a person, okay. E.B. White. Exactly. You think E.B. White’s a frickin’ spider, no, it’s a person. E.B. White widow. So yeah, and I just think that there’s something intrinsically okay with the human instinct to eliminate a threat, especially a tiny, little threat that packs such a punch. And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with watching it die. Let’s not undersell the threat. Let’s unpack it a little bit. One time, I think I recently told you this story, but I don’t think I told it to anyone else, so now I will. Tell it Neal. I remember, and you tell me if I told you this. I remember one time I was sittin’ in my Nanny’s yard with my Nanny. Because my nanny would often take her chairs out into the yard. And we would just sit in the yard. Sitting in a yard was somethin’ that used to happen. Doesn’t happen any more. It should happen again. People should sit in their yards. Like there was a big pecan tree, and we’d sit underneath that and just sit and talk. And let pecans drop into your mouth, like raindrops. Like grapes bein’ fed to a king. Right. One time I struck up a conversation with Nanny because what else are we gonna do. We’re sitting under a tree. I said, Nanny tell me some of the last words that your relatives said before they died. I remember asking her this. How old were you? I was pretty young. I was probably like Lando’s age, like nineish. I distinctly remember it. And I was inquisitive. What a morbid thought. I just thought it would be a fun thing. Was she related to any spiders? It was interesting in that she actually remembered a number of family members’ last words. But the only one that I distinctly remember is one that wasn’t words at all because she said, and then of course my great uncle so and so, so and so, he died on the toilet. Well it was actually an outhouse. He got bit on the butt by a black widow spider. Mm-hm. And it killed him. You would think you would be especially prone to killing black widows, because in like– Me? Like to avenge your family. Great, great uncle. I never met him. And I don’t even know what his last words were. His blood. Oh I think I just got bit by a spider. His blood runs in your veins. That’s true. Well, the blood of his father I guess does, if he’s your uncle. Yeah somewhere out there. The blood in his butt runs through my veins. Right. And that butt that was bitten by a black widow, that now is just sitting there enjoying the fruits of your backyard. How does a black widow kill a human? Uh with the venom. Like– First of all I don’t think– I don’t know that, is that even true, was my Nanny lyin’ to me? I think it’s unlikely that you die from a black widow bite. But it definitely guarantees a pretty bad weekend. What are you findin’ here? Signs and symptoms of black widow spider bite, muscle cramps and spasms that start near the bite and then spread and increase in severity in six to 12 hours. Chills, fever, nausea, vomiting, sweating, severe belly, back, or chest pain, headache, stupor, restlessness, or shock. Mm-hm, spider– How long does it take to a black widow bite to kill you? If a black widow spider bites a person, do not panic. No one in the United States has died from a black widow spider bite in over 10 years. Yep, but my great, great uncle, back in the outhouse days. Famous, he’s famous for that. He’s famous for dying. Very often the black widow will not inject any venom into the bite, no serious symptoms develop. Wash the wound well with soap and water to help prevent infection. So what I’m kinda gettin’ at here. Does it say anything in there about before it bites you, kill with the spider spray? Because that’s what I would add to the Wiki. I’m sorry I know– A black widow spider bite is said the feel like a pin prick, although victims may not realize they have been bitten. Most common localized symptoms of a black widow spider, include immediate pain, burning, swelling, and redness around the bite. Basically it seems that, it’s not even that painful. Not even that much of a threat, so. I don’t know Rhett, maybe we should just let ’em dangle. I understand the argument that we’re encroaching on their ecosystem. I mean you can if you stretch that argument to its logical end though, I’m also an animal and I decided to live here, so. But anyway, I’m not talkin’ about eliminating all spiders. I understand they’re an important part of the local ecosystem. But the spiders that have gotten the bright idea to attach to my house, that’s where it ends. I’m not talking about going out into the world and seeking out black widows like some sort of super hero that just, he’s called Spiderman, but he’s just a guy who kills spiders, and he has a copyright problem. Like there’s a trademark issue, because every time he tries to make a movie about himself, or whatever, people get confused and they think it’s the Marvel Spiderman. And he’s like no, I’m just the guy who kills spiders. Maybe I should be called the spider guy, but that doesn’t sound like a great super hero. I’m not advocating for that potential thing. I’m just saying, I’m gonna kill ’em if they threaten me and my family. Here’s another fact. Black widow spider bites rarely kill people but, especially for kids, it’s important to get medical attention as soon as you can, because they can make you very sick. Like the symptoms that I already talked about. I know, I don’t want my kids to be very sick. Well hook me up with that spray. I’m a go for it. Okay, all right. See, a convert. I’m a closeted convert. I wouldn’t say that publicly. Okay. Let’s get into somethin’ a little less morbid. But first, we do invite you, to visit Mythical.com, where you can get all the spider spray, oh I’m getting word that, we do not sell spider spray, yet. No we don’t. You’re lying. Now if you’re watching this, on the day that it comes out, then it’s the Sunday after Thanksgiving, and that means that you’ve just got a few more hours to take advantage of our Black Friday sale, Mythical.com. You get up to 40% off. So make sure you take advantage of that. Or you could just start wearing plain, white tee shirts like I’m doing. They’re cheap, they don’t say anything about you. I have one of those and I put it on yesterday. I walked around in front of a mirror and I was like, you know what, and I took it back off. Sometimes I go for it. It just didn’t express enough. You know what? I’m the expression. Okay. Mythical.com, you be the expression. All right, so I’m gonna reiterate this question and then we can dive into it. Again Ashley said, on a weekend camping trip I took no pictures. It was nice to be away from my phone, but I’m sad I don’t have any photo memories to look back at. How do I decide if it’s better to snap photos versus live in the moment phone free? Well I’m actually tomorrow, as we’re recording this, I’m leaving to take my youngest son on a camping trip. Returning to Joshua Tree. Oh. I wanted to take both of the children, but the oldest child– Didn’t wanna be with you? No he has basketball practice on Saturdays, and the coach is pitching a fit about not missing any. How many other days of the week does he have practice? Five! There’s six total. I mean the way the do the high school sports now is just, come on guys, like it’s not, it’s not the only thing that matters. Like bein’ able to go do something on the weekend with your parents, I don’t understand why there’s no value in that. I don’t know, it’s a little frustrating but, he’s committed to it, so I want to honor that commitment. It actually makes me mad. It makes me mad for you guys. I don’t know, it’s just, it does seem like, really you, does it really boil down to, you wanna win so badly that you’re driving these kids to practice six out of seven days a week? I think there’s just a mentality about commitment, that is not unhealthy, but leads to things that, given the lifestyle that we live, and they way we want our family to be, it becomes a bit of, it clashes. Like the fact that we didn’t go– It’s holding your family hostage. We didn’t go home to North Carolina for Thanksgiving, or Christmas last year, because they were told if you miss the tournaments that we play over the holidays, you will then be demoted on your team. See that doesn’t, that just doesn’t seem right. I don’t agree with it. I don’t agree with it. What about this year? Are you not goin’ home for Thanksgiving? No this year we’re goin’ home for Christmas. And we’re just sayin’, all right. But you couldn’t do Thanksgiving, this year for the same reason? Well, we decided we’re gonna do it for Christmas ’cause it’s gonna be a longer period of time. And we didn’t go back last year. But he’s biting the bullet this year, ’cause it’s just like, I mean, how much longer am I gonna be able to be in the this family, where as a family we go back to visit, I dunno. That’s not really what I wanted to get at. Okay I’m sorry, you just kinda. You hit a nerve. We could do a whole podcast about the issues I have with the policy of the local high school basketball team. A coach setting up a standard, that then immediately infringes on like the whole family’s ability to plan anything just seems, I dunno, it just makes me angry. Well I’m on board with that. That’s why I don’t let my kids play sports. That’s not true. So me and Shepherd are goin’, me and Shepherd. And you know, interestingly, last time we went to Joshua Tree, the three of us, ’cause Locke went, it was not during basketball season. One of the things that I remember most about that trip was the pictures. Do you mean you remember the trip, to the extent that you do, because you took pictures, which you’ve seen since then? The way back into that memory is often easiest in the form of revisiting the pictures. Which I also put on Instagram, because I thought that I took some really good pictures. And I thought, that you would be, shout out to RhettMC on Instagram, I thought you would be impressed with my photo-taking ability. We can come back– What I was really tryin’ to communicate, what I wanted you to think, that I think, that you would think, was that I was just a good father. But what I really wanted you to think was that, oh he’s a really good photographer. He’s a great father and a great photographer. He’s a fathographer. That didn’t come out right. So guess to bring it full circle, if I get my way then the coach won’t insist that you can’t take your kids places, so then you can boost your Instagram cred? It’s like, I’m fightin’ for ya over here. No it was great. It was a great trip. I’m just sayin that– Lemme ask this. Those pictures were a great way back into it. But the, I’m gonna table the Instagram thing for a second because that’s another facet to this argument. But my first question is, are your memories of your previous Joshua Tree trip directly associated with things in the photos? Or, is it just that it jogs your memory about other things that you didn’t take photos of? I’m actually curious, All of the above. if you lose, all of the above. For instance– ‘Cause at a certain point. I took a picture of Shepherd and Locke, I don’t believe that this one, ah I think there is one of these– It doesn’t matter. You can show it– No, but I’m saying that there are– You’re tryin’ to promote your Instagram. No, I’m not, what I’m using as Instagram, I’m saying, I’m actually more likely to see the pictures that I posted to Instagram, rather than the pictures that are on my camera roll, because my camera roll has so many pictures. Yeah. So I’ve looked at my old Instagram feed, more than I go back and look at all the pictures from Joshua Tree. But one of the pictures, was I think, either me, or Shepherd, or Locke, it’s on a giant rock, meditating. And we hiked to this spot, and me and Shepherd will do this again, ’cause it was one of my favorite spots. All of Joshua Tree has those giant awesome, house-sized rocks that you can just so easily climb on top of. But we climbed on three rocks. And we were probably 50 to 75 yards apart from each other in a triangle, and we were all meditating. And I took pictures of us each. And just the picture of one of us on that rock, takes me back to that really special memory, which I remember in its entirety, or at least as much as has been retained. That was just a really cool moment. We literally just sat there in silence, taking in nature for you know 10 minutes or so. I think that in a lot of situations though, at a certain point you only remember the things that, well we know you only remember the things that you have remembered. Like remembering shapes the memory. Accessing yeah. Accessing overwrites. And you’re most likely to remember the things that you’ve taken photos of. The things that are just related to it you might lose earlier, ’cause there’s nothin’ that’s gonna prompt that specifically, at least in theory. So that’s an argument for takin’ more pictures Right? But there’s also an argument for taking none. Like she seemed to imply that she didn’t bring herd phone at all. And you know we wanna applaud that because, to be away from your phone has got to be, that’s gotta be rejuvenating on some, Without a doubt. brain and physical level. How ’bout this? So getting rid of the phone entirely, was probably a good thing. She just happened to get rid of her camera at the same time, ’cause it was in the phone. Well how ’bout this situation specifically? Because I think that this is maybe a little bit, a more specific scenario, where I have a stronger opinion. Where it just seems clearer in my mind. I like to watch professional golf on television. The most boring thing that you can choose to do. I understand it doesn’t appeal to everyone. I’m immediately picturing you taking pictures of the screen, as you’re watching golf, ’cause I don’t know where you’re going with this. And if you watch a golf gallery, which is the audience watching, who’s following around the players, if you go back to 19, if you go back to the year 2000 definitely, and you look at pictures of like Tiger Woods getting ready to putt, or something, and you look at the gallery behind him, everyone will just be standin’ there looking at Tiger Woods. Yeah, okay. If you go back to this year and you see Tiger Woods putting, at the Masters, or whatever, you will see that seven outta 10 people have their phone up. Some of those people are looking at Tiger in real life, but then pointing their phone at him, and some people are literally just looking at their image that they’re gathering of him in the moment. Now here’s the deal. This seems asinine to me, because, you know what else is happening while you’re filming Tiger Woods? The freaking network that is documenting him playing golf is filming it much more clearly than you are, and also broadcasting it. You can go back to that moment through the wonder of network television at any time. You think you gonna go back and look at your little, dinky little camera, vertically-filmed camera image, and be like, that’s where I was. Well yeah, I definitely don’t understand like this. Just watch Tiger Woods play golf man. I don’t understand taking video of things that. You’re at an event as a spectator, especially with somethin’ like that, where there’s only key moments. There’s like 18 times this guy’s drivin’, you know off the tee, right. It’s one thing to be like, here comes Tiger, and listen, I went to the Wachovia, remember Wachovia the bank. Yeah. They had a championship. I don’t know if they still have it in Charlotte, and my Dad and I, positioned ourselves on the tee, right next to the tee box, like we were as close to where like the golfer was gonna come up. Tiger Woods comes up hits a drive right in front of us. This was before anyone was filmin’ anything with phones, so I just watched it happen. It was amazing. Do you remember it? Yes I remember it. It’s in my mind. Now it woulda been one thing that as, as Tiger’s comin’ up, like pull out my phone, snap little picture of him, then put it back. It’s the people who are literally videoing everything that’s happening while it’s happening in front of them. That makes me mad. Knowing that, yeah it’s like, are you really gonna watch that back. That’s one end of the spectrum. That’s why a picture’s so great is that it’s a moment in time. It’s a snapshot of reality. Quite literally you know. But then it’s over and you can be in the moment. Again, I think if you have such an attachment to your phone that you can’t really enjoy camping, then I think you should get rid of the phone. But we may be reachin’ a conclusion where you should bring some other type of camera, which could be weird. Like what if you go retro though, that’s kinda fun. You’re going camping it’s rustic. Why don’t you take one of those disposable things and just take that roll. And then develop it, and then take pictures of those developed, scan ’em. So then you, ’cause you gotta have it digitally. Okay that’s one solution. That seems like a cumbersome solution. I just came up with that. It’s like this retro, rustic photography thing. I like that idea. That could be fun. You should do that. Take a disposable camera and don’t take your phone. Now that feels like a potential cool sort of temporary solution. You have to digitize it. Lemme just say, I keep getting the sense that we’ve talked about this before. Either on Ear Biscuits, or somethin’ else. But, you know what, I’m gonna trudge through. If we have it’s a good test. Do you remember it? Did you take a picture? If we took a picture of it, then that means, that it didn’t even help us remember it. Right. And this whole conversation I know we’ve talked– For two reasons, ’cause we’ve had it and we were wrong about it. Why can’t two dudes talk about the same thing again? Maybe their minds have changed. That is the other test, have our minds changed? I have a system, but go ahead. I wanna come back to your system. Do you like this system? Disposable cameras. I think this is fine system, but lemme just quickly, just for the sake of understanding all the places that this could go, can we just fast forward to the distant future? Maybe the not-so-distant future, because you could technically do this now, but it would be a cumbersome life choice. So just like, security systems house their recording constantly, and it’s just being held on a hard drive, this would be like, let’s just say in your brain. Like you’d be able to access. Well I think you fast forwarded even, you fast forwarded so far into the distant future, where now all– You said the future. So hold on. You could wear glasses. Let’s do both. Let’s do both. I could wear a nest cam, on my glasses. That’s exactly what I’m getting at. I’m saying you’ve got a pair of glasses that are fashionable, they don’t look like Google Glass, they’re like oh those are just glasses, like what Link has on. Constantly recording. Whatever is very in fashion. Like a traffic cam. And sending it to a– Cloud-based server. Cloud-based server that then is just, and first of all, I know there’s a movie about this. At least one movie about this, and I can’t remember what it’s called. We may have made it and forgotten it. But essentially you can go back and you can access any of your memories, from the perspective that you are in. “Minority Report”. Basically the sound and the audio of that. At that point, everyone’s basically just gonna, I dunno, that’s gonna be a weird time if we get to that point, with the evolution of technology. But you kinda fast forwarded beyond that, which is an even more interesting place, which is not only is it being stored on the cloud-based system, but the interface between your brain and the cloud-based system is so seamless that going back into the memory feels like just reliving the memory. So every sensation, not just the sight and sound, but also the feel and your emotions and everything. Now there’s also a book, I think it was rec in effect way back, by Blake Crouch, one of my favorite writers, “Recursion”, where he plays around with this concept of memory, and being able to enter back into a memory. And basically the underlying philosophy of the book is that the only thing we really consist of is memory. Like that’s kind of all that we’ve got is this timeline that we’ve sort of recorded. I don’t understand, what about the present, the nowness. Like you’ve got now. And you’ve got an aspiration to the future. You’ve actually got a lotta things. Yeah I know. I’m just throwin’ all the, there’s just a lot to this argument. But I guess we can just zoom back in on the present day, because we don’t have that technology. In the future I– In the future will be a moot point. I think it– You won’t be making that decision. I think if you could have constant access to everything that’s happened to you, in pristine, probably POV, vantage point, I don’t think it would be healthy, I just don’t think it would be healthy to have it. I think it would just, it doesn’t, it seems like it would work for like, in court. You know it’s like– No but think about it. It starts getting wild because, if we can get to a place where the– Living in the past is not healthy. The interface, yeah but hold on, this isn’t about living in the past. If the interface is seamless, then if I can have the experience of going to Joshua Tree, without even going to Joshua Tree. I’m not talkin’ about virtual reality, I’m talking about a literal, the experience is being piped into my brain. At that point photos, it’s just like, we just gotta send one person to Joshua Tree, have them do everything, while wearing the interface and then if I can have the exact same experience, why am I gonna get in the car and drive? Yeah that’s convenient, but I’m just sayin’. You’re provin’ my point. That doesn’t seem healthy either, specifically. So in general this whole thing– I don’t think we’re ever gonna get to that point. Even with technology and the way that it’s advancing, I think there’s just too many limitations, okay. But if we reel it back to today, I’ll try to make it simple. Because I think I’m adopting a practice that is my answer to this. I’ve never articulated it, so as I try to do that, let’s see if it holds up. I think there’s a balance between, you know, this is kind of a middle of the road thing. Which may seem obvious. But there’s a balance between not taking any photos, takin’ too many photos. So I think the goal is to know, how to take just the right amount of photos. And I’ll be more specific. I think if there’s any moment, and I believe that I try to make my goal, especially when I’ve made plans to do somethin’ that’s event-based, well when I’m in it, I really want to appreciate it. To be in that moment and savor it for all that it is. And then I’ve noticed that if I do that, if recall that intention and I start to really appreciate the moment, that then if I add a little brain trigger to that conclusion that oh yeah I am in the moment, that like at some point around here in time, I’m gonna snap a photo, in order to help me remember a moment when I was in the moment. Now I don’t wanna– It’s actually almost a way to signify that this moment is worth being in. Yeah, but not dropping what I’m doing in order to get the perfect frame, or something right now. But just sayin’, I’m makin’ a mental note, that like at the right time, maybe when the height of this moment has passed, I will snap a picture to commemorate it. Or, if I can snap a photo and put my phone back away and still be in the moment, I’m gonna do that. As opposed to making the moment, tryin’ to capture the moment. Which incidentally, I’m sure you’ve seen this, but if you live in Los Angeles and you go to any place, you will see, it’s usually a couple, and it’s usually, this is definitely a generalization, so lemme just say, in my experience, eight outta 10 times, there is a woman, who is on the attractive side, and she is doing something, and her boyfriend or husband has a camera and is being forced to sit there and take 100 pictures of her doing something, No, no, no, for her Instagram. he forces her, she forces him to take a photo, or five. Then she comes and looks at ’em, gives notes– And then she goes back to where she was. That happens five more times. And this is, okay, I think we are both in agreement, that this is way outta bounds. I understand that maybe Instagramming is your career, but what I, good luck. That doesn’t apply. Yeah if you’re a model or an Instagram person– That is outside of the realm of being in the moment. Because the moment has become about you getting the moment, not for yourself, but for accolades, admiration that you’re gonna get on Instagram. Now, ’cause I don’t know that you did this, but if you’re doin’ this meditation on the rocks, and it’s like wow, this is an amazing moment. The way that I’m saying you would do that is you would just pull out a phone, I’d look outta the corner of my eye, I’d see my son over there on a meditation rock, I’d pull out my phone, I’d take a snapshot. And then I’d put it back away and I’d keep meditating. It wouldn’t become like, lemme figure out how to take the next 20 minutes to make this Instagram pose. In that moment, that’s exactly what I did. There were a coupla other moments where we were hiking and we hiked into this cave, and then we realized that there was a really cool opening into the sky. And we took, I’d say we stopped and we took like two minutes getting Shepherd like set up in this cave to like take this picture. But it wasn’t like this everything is stopping for an extended period of time. It was like, oh this is a cool photo op. Let’s capture this moment in a stylistic way. All that to say, the way that I did it last time, I do not feel like I ever made it about the photos to the extent that I lost the ability to be in the moment. I feel like I was in what I would say is my sweet spot, which is what I planned to do. But I do think, that there are times, when a conscious choice to be like, I’m not gonna take any photos. Maybe when you’re by yourself. Like I know we both talked about potentially doing, and my therapist has been pushing me to do this for awhile, take a solo trip somewhere. I’ve done it a coupla times or whatever. I feel like if I were to do something like that, having an extended period of time where I was like, I’m not takin’ any photos. No, I’m sayin’ everything that’s worth doing, that’s worth experiencing, if you find yourself truly experiencing it, you’re in the moment, that then you should find the right way to as quickly as possible, take a snapshot, which will help solidify it. So it’s not just a, you wanna take a mental picture– But what if you wanna, I think that’s a fine general practice. So here’s what I’m thinkin’, so like, whenever I’m doing somethin’, like if I go campin’, I’m like, you know what, I wanna take a picture that like helps me remember this whole thing. And then I don’t wanna keep takin’ pictures. So once we set up camp, I’m gonna walk over here and I’m gonna take a big picture of the campsite, with as many people as I’m campin’ with in it. That’s just for me if I look back through it. I say, oh yeah, I remember that campsite, I remember this whole weekend. And then if there’s a moment within that, like oh we found this waterfall, or like we’re sittin’ around the campfire and we’re havin’ this conversation. I’m gonna pull out my phone, and I’m gonna take like one picture and then I’ll be like, you know what, I got it. Any of that memory that might be lost from not having a picture, I’ve now mitigated that risk and I can be back in the moment, and then I put it away. Now I think adding the factor of trying to put it on the internet, severely complicates things, for me personally. But you don’t make that decision, you don’t make that decision in the moment. Yes you do, because it’s the difference between takin’ a photo to capture a moment for you, and capturing somethin’ that looks good that people will like on the internet. I don’t think that there’s, I don’t think that that’s a super Composition. I don’t think there’s a huge delineation between those two. Posing. I think for most people, this might be because you’re such a perfectionist, and if you’re gonna take somethin’ for the purpose of display, you get too in your head about it and take too much time to make it right. It’s like that woman who’s makin’ sure you get it, she wants to look exactly like she wants to look, you know. But if you feel like, like I honestly don’t go to that place. Just like I’m, okay I wanna take a picture of this. Am I in exactly the right place to take the best picture of that, probably not. But I’m not gonna take the time to figure that out. It’s just when I frame it, I’ll think about the rule of thirds and I’ll take visually pleasing shot. And then I’ll go back, when I get back home, and I’m like showin’ Jessie, hey here’s what we did, here’s the pictures, so she can kinda live vicariously through what it was like to go out. We don’t let her out. No, she likes to get weekends by herself sometimes. And so that’s what happens. And then I will show those pictures. And then I’ll pick the best ones and be like, oh this I’ll do a little photo set. And I haven’t done that very often. I just did it with Joshua Tree specifically last year. When we were in Thailand, and we were like touring those ancient ruins, me and my family, I do remember thinking, oh this is like, we gotta get all the family here and this tour guide’s gonna take our photo. And I noticed that the kids are like, ah stop. You try to get ’em all posing. And even though they’re always on their phones, they can’t stop whatever they’re doing to like perfectly pose for my picture. And I am thinking, I gotta have something that like I could put as a fridge magnet. Like send back home to the extended family. You know these are the trips that lead to the fridge magnets. And they’re also the pictures that lead to the next trip. Right. Right, ’cause if you wanna, you know interestingly, Jessie recently did somethin’, But it’s gotta be a good picture. Jessie’s good. She’s good at taking pictures. And she just uses her phone. And then a little bit of whatever the editing stuff is. And then she took, she went through a bunch of her pictures and then printed out several of them and put them in our, the bathroom that we redid. And so like on the shelf that you can see while you’re takin’ a crap, which I really like to have a good field of view when I’m takin’ a crap. Well you’re goin’ on vacation in your mind. I see those cool pictures that she’s taken. It doesn’t have us in ’em. It’s pictures that she took of things. So it almost, and they’re all black and white. So it kinda looks like, oh you just bought a picture. You bought a frame with a picture in it. But it’s like I know. And people visitin’ my bathroom may think, oh they just have like cool nature/building/ stock photography in this decorative place. But I know, no I remember that building that we went to in England, and that ruin or whatever. And that’s very meaningful for me. Especially while defecating, It helps you access, It means a lot. I mean the experiences that you have there, and the meaning associated with that, it’s a direct, it helps you access it. That’s why just putting the phone away when you’re like having a, to go back to what you were saying in there, I think that’s the flip side of this coin that I’m not happy with yet, which is, I dunno, is there a healthy time to not take any photos? I do think– I question that. I think so. Okay, lemme just paint a picture for you. You’re on a solo trip. You’ve set aside a coupla days to be by yourself. Yeah. And you are becoming so one with nature that you begin to look down and you see these, this synthetic fabric on you. Why do I have these? This isn’t me. You begin to strip your clothes off. What kinda trip are you on? Good question. You strip your clothing off, ’cause you realize that that’s not you man, that ain’t it chief. Okay. You are your body. Call me chief, I do like that. And you say I wanna have, I don’t wanna be anything that wasn’t here to begin with. I mean you even take your wedding ring off. I mean not because you’re lookin’ to get frisky, but because it’s foreign. You take your glasses off. You can’t see any more. It doesn’t matter. Every, you grab a leaf and you rub under your arms to get any remnants of deodorant off of you. Because you wanna be of nature, with nature. And then you walk, several miles, away from the campsite, with no regard as to what direction you’re goin’, because you wanna be in it to win it. You get out there. You didn’t bring your phone, unless you stuck it in a crevasse of sorts. There’s a moment, there’s a moment out there while you’re naked and you’re one with nature, where it’s about you and your brain and the cosmos. And it’s not about capturing it with some little dinky digital device that was invented 10 years ago. Right or wrong? But you don’t have a phone at that point. Look at that. I just took a picture of you ’cause you’re so worked up. I just felt like that’s the moment. And I don’t wanna forget. And I agree with your philosophy in general. I’m just sayin’ there are times when you gotta set it all aside. I think what you’re sayin’ is that, isn’t there somethin’ ironic about bein’ in a moment, so you’re takin’ your phone out and takin’ a picture of it. Isn’t that counter in the moment? Sometimes the moment is so great that it can’t take the informality of taking out a phone. Yeah, like the moment that your first child’s being born, or the second, or the third, I’m not playing favorites. Like what’s gonna happen, what’s gonna happen when the aliens come? I think we’re talkin’, the birth thing is a good one. Better than the aliens because– Well babies look like aliens, especially at first. It’s the filming of the whole birth. I mean that one’s always just bumfuzzled me because it’s a gross birth man. I mean it’s not even, I mean it is a beautiful thing, but yeah, but physically it’s a nasty kinda thing. But did you hear that– It’s just like, why are you talkin’ about filming that or takin’ photos of that. No, take photo of the result. But hold on, but GoPro just– Pre and post. GoPro just came out with a vag cam though. Oh gosh. You know GoPro Nine. Then you just tell the baby to follow the light. Right, you just– Follow the red blinking light. The doctor puts it on and then you see the whole thing that way. GoPro not a sponsor. Yeah, they really wanna be now. I think in theory you could be right. There are moments so precious that bringing a camera phone, a phone camera whatever it is, into the situation is gonna taint it. But that’s not, that’s few and far between. But that is so rare. That’s the moment of birth, the moment of death. Well I kinda wanna be on camera when I die. Probably the moment of, I mean don’t get me started with sex tapes. That’ll get you in trouble. You know, so let’s take them off the table. Again, pre and post. That’s a different thing though. Pre picture, post picture. Again I said don’t get us started. I guess that, it sounds like you wanna make it another episode. To sex tape, or not to sex tape? That is the question. Oh gosh. Maybe in 2020, with everything we’re thinkin’ about 2020. It could be the year. The Rhett and Link sex tape. Now that’ll put us on the map. We’re not gonna try– We’ll be able to sell more makeup than Jeffree Starr and Shane Dawson. I think for most all situations, that are, except for the exceptional ones that I just listed, I guess, be ready to take what you think are too few photos, but not zero photos. And I would say, while I agree with your philosophy, I think it is sound, my approach is probably a little bit less about just capturing it for the sake of your own memory and accessing the memory later, it is that, but if you’re gonna take the time to take a photo, take a nice photo that could be shared with the world. Okay, I’ll– But don’t make that a prerequisite. I’ll add an addendum. And as a second point, there’s nothin’ wrong with wantin’ to take some postable photos. But you just gotta know that that’s most likely gonna take more time, and that it’s a trade-off between bein’ in the moment, and being in this, I’m creating something that will become a digital moment later. So you just gotta know that the clock is ticking, whenever you decide, I think this is the one, I’m on the edge of the Grand Canyon, my kids aren’t that upset with me, we’re gonna get the tour guide to be cooperative and take a nice composed photo for me to put on my magnets and to put on Instagram. But I know that my clock is ticking, every time I do that. And every single precipice of the Grand Canyon should not be us attempting to outdo the last one 100%, on Instagram. but here’s where I differ with the specific thing that you just said. And this might just be the difference in the way that our brains work. You seem like you want to make the decision, before you snap the photo, about where it’s gonna go and what the purpose of the photo is. Yeah. And I’m just saying, I wanna have a philosophy of capturing moments as I go. Capturing them in not unreasonably, aesthetically pleasing way, but you know, reasonably pleasing, and then later on, when I get back home, in the privacy of my own bed or bathroom, I wanna go through my camera roll and make that decision. I don’t wanna make, ’cause if you have to bring that thought process into the moment, it ruins the moment. Well I don’t think there’s one right answer. I think that the key is in our difference of what takes us out of a moment. And what keeps us from being able to get back in a moment. I’m, yeah I think it is important to say, I’m highly sensitive, I’m like the experience version of a light sleeper. I must be a light experiencer, because anything can knock me outta the orbit of a moment. You know, if you think about literally bein’ in a moment, you think about like tryin’ to meditate, and if a fly buzzes and it takes you all the way out of it. For me– I grab it with chopsticks. If a little fly buzzes, well this is not about being superior. No I’m just sayin’– Your tone seems to say that not only are we different, but I’m winning. All I’m saying is Mr. Miyagi made it seem like it was a camera trick, but I can actually do it in person. So I need to look inside myself and say okay, I can get obsessive about trying to take so many photos to get the best one for the fridge magnet. And at the end of the day, I could realize that I was never, you know, really experiencing it. And so I need to set ground rules for myself. So those may be different for you, because of what puts you in a moment, takes you out of it. The only thing I’m asking, because I think that this could bring, I’m not askin’ you to do my technique, I’m just saying that doesn’t your technique still work, if you take the moment of decision about Instagram out of that moment and just save it for later? And just be like, so do your thing– So you’re saying just take a– No, no, no, no. To me the application is you’re takin’ a bunch more pictures. No, no, no, no, you’re not listenin’ to what I’m saying. Take the exact amount of photos that you were planning on taking. Take them in exactly, take the exact amount of time to take them, and to consider them that you’re planning on taking, and then when you get back home see if anything qualifies. It just doesn’t work. This morning I put into practice what I’m talkin’ about. How does that not work? And I’ll tell you why it don’t work. I got up, I was drinkin’ my coffee, it was early. Sittin’ there all alone, no one was stirring. And then all of a sudden, somebody was stirring. So Lando comes around the corner, he wakes up, it was like a half hour early than he normally wakes up. He came and he sat down next to me on the couch with his blanket. So I was drinkin’ my coffee and he was like snuggled up to me, it was a nice moment. And he may have pulled out his, he’s got this knitting loom and so he’s knitting something. It’s like a, is it knitting is that what it’s called? Let’s just say it is. I’m not familiar with it. He’s makin’ somethin’ special for somebody. And I was like, you know what, this is a special moment. And I reached, I just took out my phone, I didn’t say anything to him, and I just took a selfie. And you know, it’s not a good-looking selfie. Matter of fact, I don’t wanna show you the selfie now. In a normal Ear Biscuit, right now on the video version, we’d be showin’ the selfie, I’m not gonna do that, because I haven’t even looked at it. It’s probably not a flattering angle. And it’s a moment that meant somethin’ to me, but it’s like, if I really thought that it, in order for that to be post-worthy, I woulda taken 12, in order to try to figure it out. ‘Cause you just can’t slam out a selfie and it be amazing. I mean you’ve seen people. They take forever to get their chin and point it in the right direction. I just don’t think you’re bein’ honest. No. You just can’t, there’s a difference between snappin’ a shot to preserve a moment, and snappin’ a shot that could mean somethin’ more. It’s a lot more work. For me I’m saying that it’s a minimal amount more work. But take me through your fridge magnets or your Instagram feed and show me which of those were just taken on a fluke. So I’m just sayin’– No, no. I’m sayin’, I’m havin’ a realistic plan. It sounds like what you wanna do, and again, I get, it’s your personality, because it legitimately, listen I’m your best friend, I’ve known you for almost 40 years and I work with you every single day, I know how an interruption to the flow of whatever is happening disrupts, gets ya upset. But I’m just also sayin’ my photos are not good enough to be posted. No, no, what I’m sayin’ is that the extra 20 seconds that I might take, like if the same exact thing happened to me. Shepherd came up to me and began to knit. You’re takin’ my photo, here right now, this is a moment. Yeah so I might, it might be like this right. So he would come up, he’d be next to me. Be like, well I gotta get that. No we’re doin Ear Biscuits, so I wanna get Ear Biscuits behind me. So there we go. So that would be it. So maybe I took seven seconds, where you took one second. But what if I’m like, hold on, I blinked in that one. I’m just– My eyes were closed. I’m sayin’ I’m not gonna review it. Because, I’m not taking it because I want to post it. I’m taking it because I want to become a candidate for anything, I wanna be able to make that decision later. And I might look at and say, oh I look horrible in that picture, I’m not posting that. But I might be like, oh that really turned out well, the lighting was really good, by happenstance, not because, you know what I’m saying. Oh I got lucky on that one, let’s put that on the feed. That’s all I’m saying. Because I unlike you, I don’t want to think about social media. But in terms of the– while I’m out there. Okay so do we agree on like the number of photos that you should take? I probably have a higher tolerance for the amount of photos. And I think that’s just, whatever a person’s preference is. You know, you can probably begin to feel when it, you get the sense that, oh I’m taking too many pictures. I don’t feel grounded anymore. I don’t feel like this is about the camping trip. I don’t feel like this about hanging out with my kids. I feel like this has become about documenting it. And what I’m saying is that, listen there are people, we haven’t even gotten into this, but there are people who do lifestyle vlogs. And I don’t know, either they have developed the art of being in the moment, but also capturing it. That sounds like a nightmare to me personally. But you also think about, I follow Jimmy Chin, the photographer who follows Alex Honnold around. I mean this guy is taking amazing photos that obviously he’s taking time to set up, but I don’t get the sense that he’s not in the moment. Well he’s a photographer. He’s also a photographer. His moment is capturing the moment. Right but, and I’m just saying, I just feel like, you gotta know what your personal threshold is. And if it feels like you’ve crossed over into making it about documentation versus experiment, I mean experience, that’s gonna be a little bit different. It also applies to the people that you’re with, right. So for instance, if we went camping together and my frequency of photo taking was too high for your own personal comfort, then I would probably have to adjust that. Why you takin’ so many damn pictures man. If you were to say that, then I would, chief, I’d be like all right chief I’ll take less. So I just think you have, but I feel like, back to the original question– I feel like you shoulda taken your ph, I feel like you shoulda taken a disposable camera, if you think that’s a fun project, or take your phone, but leave it in airport mode and just take, you shoulda taken one photo. Or air, or plane mode, I mean either one. Even one photo. You know what, give it a shot next time. Okay I think we’ve answered some, I mean– No spiders were harmed in the making of this conversation. I did kill a gnat though, and I’m not making that up. A very small, gnat-like bug. What we would have called a gnat in North Carolina, landed on my hand. Never seen one in the Ear Biscuits studios before, but I killed it immediately. Just wanted you to know. And it’s on the ground now. It’s your rec, is that gonna be spider juice or what? No, I don’t remember the brand and also don’t wanna endorse it, because you know listen, I don’t wanna endorse killing spiders. I just want to encourage it. Is your rec not killing a spider? No, my rec is a hot sauce that I found. Well I guess my wife found it. You know the Sweet Baby Ray’s, who won the best barbecue sauce taste test on GMA. We independently tasted like a bunch of– I don’t remember that, didn’t take a photo Popular brands. Yeah we took a lot. We took 24 per second actually. But there was Bullseye and some other brands that everybody recognized. And Sweet Baby Ray’s won. And I think Sweet Baby Ray’s won pretty handily. And since then, They got a hot sauce now? I been getting that barbecue sauce and re-recognizing how good it is for just like a cheap, bottom-shelf barbecue sauce. That company now has a hot sauce. And it is in the Louisiana hot sauce, you know, sweet and not too hot, but like really good on fried chicken and anything like that, really good on eggs. Like a bright, reddish, orange sauce? Basically Texas Pete. We’ve been getting Texas Pete, made in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, forever. Not made in Texas, I understand that. And I like that. I think you also are a fan of that hot sauce right. ‘Cause it’s got, there’s somethin’ about that style of hot sauce, because you can almost drink it. It’s not super hot. But it just goes on a lotta different things. Sweet Baby Ray’s is an upgrade. What’s it’s called, Hot Baby Ray’s? It’s just called Sweet Baby Ray’s Hot Sauce I think. And then I think it says new. Excuse me, I had some before, I just felt. But when you go to a restaurant in California, you usually are gonna get two different types of hot sauce. You’re gonna get Cholula or Tapatio, right. That’s what, all these places. And I prefer Cholula over Tapatio. Yeah. But neither of those really has that like Louisiana-style red thing happenin’. Well I’ll check it out. Ya gotta check it out. I’m gonna check it out. Put it on some eggs. That’s what I’m gonna tell ya to do. Scramble up some eggs, some cheese eggs, put a little cheese in there. Sometimes I start with an onion. Get some onions in there and then throw a little Sweet Baby Ray’s Hot Sauce on it. And tell me what you think about it. Speaking of that, tell us what you think about this, #EarBiscuits, this conversation can continue, wherever hash tags are found. And we’ll speak at ya next week. To watch more Ear Biscuits, click on the play list on the right. To watch the previous episode of Ear Biscuits, click on the playlist to the left. And don’t forget to click on the circular icon to subscribe. If you prefer to listen to this podcast, it’s available on all your favorite podcast platforms. Thanks for bein’ your mythical best.