Welcome to “Ear Biscuits,” the podcast where two lifelong friends talk about life for a long time. I’m Rhett. And I’m Link. This week at the round table of dim lighting, we’re picking up a conversation that we’ve gone back to, just kind like looking at different phases of our lives and friendship. Different phases, kind of focusing in on- The different versions of ourselves. Different versions of ourselves. And this one is the post-college, like right outta college, college graduates, fresh college graduate version, which if you listen to “Ear Biscuits,” we’ve covered different aspects- They are listening to it. If you’ve listened to multiple episodes, especially as we’ve talked about different things that happened in our lives at that point, we’re going to be making, at least I am, I don’t know what you’re gonna be doing, I’m making an effort to talk about things that I feel like I haven’t talked about before from that time period and different aspects of it. Just so it’s not like, oh yeah, we talked about being graduates when we were like in Crusade and like the whole missionary thing. Like, we talked about that. We’re not gonna talk about that. Yeah, I’ll try to make an effort. Okay, make an effort. Make an effort. I’ll make an effort. Yeah, I think when you focus in on that window of time, that version of us, it’s totally different. I was a totally different person. And I am interested in how that reflected on our friendship. Like, we’re two totally different people than we are now, yet we were still best friends. So, you know, it’s something I’m grateful for, but today it’s something that I’m curious about. I did want to tell you, I never told you about my Rolling Loud experience. Well, I found out about it through the internet. So I mean in general terms, what did you find out? You’ve gone viral, Link. On the internet. Rolling Loud is the world’s largest hiphop festival. I don’t know, I think that’s probably what they call it. And it’s in multiple places around the world. And it happened around Lincoln’s birthday. And like six or nine months in advance, he was asking me about it. And we had started going to some hiphop shows together. And so I was like, “I’ll buy you a ticket “if you don’t mind if I buy myself a ticket too.” So dad can tag long. Yeah. Dad along. And we didn’t talk about the specifics of what that meant. Like, I never used the term tag along, but I did say when it got closer, and he was like, “I have some friends that are going.” I’m like, “Okay, yeah, I can take you guys.” And then I realized this is a three day, this is not just a concert. Probably might have been 100 performers across three days. It’s a freaking, I’d never been to a music festival. So I was a little excited until it got close, and then I had some trepidation about it. But I said, “I don’t think I’m gonna go Friday, “but I’m gonna go Saturday, I’m gonna go Sunday.” And then it went from, “I’m not gonna go Sunday at the same time as you, “but I’m gonna bring you home Saturday and Sunday.” So that was my role, was just bringing ’em back home. But beyond that, hey, I’m curious, what have you gathered before I tell you firsthand my experience? I didn’t know you’d seen anything online. I’d seen a couple of things. Well, I knew you were going. And I am… Both from your previous experience but also from Locke’s experience of going to a few like hiphop concerts and festivals and seeing footage from them, I know the vibe. Yeah. You know what I mean? I know the vibe, and it’s not the vibe that I typically, that I experienced, let’s say, at the Palomino Country Music Festival. Which is really my vibe. Yeah. I definitely didn’t fit in. And so… I mean, it was a younger demo than this 44-year-old. But I also know that while you’re really into hiphop, you’re also kind of, you’re also, not only you’re a middle-aged man but you’re like a particular middle-aged man. You’re on the particular side of the spectrum of middle-aged men. I’m particular. Which means things like, I think I’d rather be sitting down watching this. You know what I’m saying? There’s like, that’s how I feel about things, right? Like, when we went to that John Mayer concert and there was that one row of people in front of me and the girls were standing up dancing, I was like, oh, really? Okay, I just wanna sit and watch John Mayer. That’s what I’m here to do. I’m here to sit and watch John Mayer, okay? Yeah. So I know that you have a little bit of that mentality. There were no seats anywhere at this festival. Like, literally I didn’t see a chair anywhere. Right. And like even the porta johns you had to hover. Yeah, and so when I saw the footage, the footage that is circulating, it made me laugh a lot. It did? Well, I’ll play it for you and give some more context to I think the one clip you’re talking about. But yeah, let’s see. It’s got Lil Uzi Vert, you got Travis Scott, you’ve got Future, you got Lil Wayne headlining. All of those people headlining at different points. You got three stages. It was a round SoFi stadium. It was all outdoors in Inglewood. And like Lincoln told me about Friday night, ’cause we were filming on Friday, and I was like, “I’m just too tired to go to this. “I don’t think I can make it three days.” And I was starting to get scared that this wasn’t for me, that I needed to back out. But the ticket price, like, I didn’t go through anything. I just bought a ticket. You know, I didn’t try to like use any sort of internet fame and then just get frustrated that it didn’t work. I just bought Lincoln a ticket for his birthday and just bought me a three day pass. He said, he was texting me that first night and he was like, I was like, “How’s it going?” He’s like, “It’s going great. “It got scary a little bit, but I’m having a lot of fun.” And he was talking about like the crowds just kind of pushing in on a stage and getting really cramped. I don’t like that, man. It was his first experience like being in, it wasn’t just a mosh pit, the whole thing could, there could be a mosh pit at any point anywhere because it was all that type of non-seating festival rush the stage kind of a thing. It’s just like being pressed against other people and getting this feeling and listen, this is as a 6’7″ person. The few times that I’ve been in that situation, and I’m like, if one person falls, we all fall, like that, I start having this claustrophobic reaction. And there’s, you know, I’m looking on Twitter and there’s people talking about how somebody, two people died at Rolling Loud. And I’m like, what the hell? All ready? And then like, first of all, that was not true. It’s just people just start these rumors because they just want to get something going on the internet, like a Twitter frenzy. Yeah. But of course, you know, tragedies have happened, not the least of which is people being crushed. I mean, since Rolling Loud, there was a concert somewhere else and two people did die as a result of being crushed because there was some sort of a scare and people started running. Yeah. So- It happens, man. That is a- It’s a risk. The scary part of it. But when I showed up on Saturday with Lincoln and his four friends, they had already gotten the lay of land the day before, and then they were just walking up to the main stage. And I walked up there with ’em and, you know, towards this stage at least. And this was, you know, four o’clock in the afternoon, broad daylight. Things weren’t really turnt yet. And City- And it’s cold in LA right now. It was chilly. City Girls were playing. I do not have an opinion about the City Girls. You’re not saying just a general reference to the fact that there was some girls from the city. You’re saying this is a- No, this is a group. Okay. This is a group. Got it. And so I turned to Lincoln, and I was like, “Listen, I’ll meet up with you. “I’m gonna go get the lay of the land. “I haven’t seen everything.” There’s lots of like booths and stuff like this. “I’m just gonna walk around “and see the stuff you’ve already seen.” And I’m gonna, you know, and I was thinking, I’m gonna give you space to be with your friends. I don’t think, again, we didn’t talk about it. And he was fine with anything. He’s very go with the flow, and his friends are really cool, really nice. But like, I was like, I need to give them some space. I don’t wanna be just like hovering around like with dad energy. So instead I went walking around with strange middle age man, unless you recognize him and then it’s that guy from the internet energy. By himself. By himself. I’m proud of you. I would not have done that. I really like that. I was like really curious to see if I would be recognized at all. I didn’t wear a hat that first day. And I was like, I bet you, I bet you I’ll blow a few people’s minds. Oh? Okay. And I mean, and that’s what happened. Like, I really started to get a kick outta the fact I’d just be walking and then somebody, hey, you know, there are some people in their 30s, mostly in their 20s, and they’re like, just jaws are dropping. People start coming up to me, not getting mobbed or anything. But I went to this one booth where they’re selling cereal, bowls of cereal for $5. That’s actually pretty affordable. Yeah, yeah. For a LA food option. And I was like, this is my spot. And people were like, “Link?” Or sometimes they’d be like, “Rhett?” Yeah. And… The big question I was getting was, “Why are you here?” I find that such an interesting question. “Why are you here?” I find it interesting that people are surprised. And my answer was always, “Why are you here?” I mean, it’s a music festival. Implying it’s the same reason. But I mean, that’s the first thing people thought is like, “I didn’t think you would be here.” It’s not like it’s common knowledge across the board with any casual person who recognizes my face from a thumbnail that I like hiphop music. Right, but hiphop is like the most popular form of music on the planet. That’s true. And this is Los Angeles. But going to Rolling Loud is not, it’s a little bit more, unless you’re right in that expected demo, it’s more about, you gotta overcome some hurdles to be at this thing, you know? Social hurdles. It’s like I’m willing to be… It’s another level. It is another level of commitment I think that was implied, so I didn’t take offense of people saying why are you here. I just got a kick out of people just being, just trying to make sense of it. And I thought, you know, if some pictures make their way on Twitter, it might surprise- Up your clout. It might surprise some more people. I didn’t really think of it in terms of clout. I just thought of it in terms of like, that’ll be fun to see what discussions can be had here in real time and maybe on Twitter later. So I wasn’t embarrassed to be walking around alone. I did have a cover story which I started to use. I’m lost. Where am I? Yeah. I’m looking for the Home Depot. I’ve got to do some home improvement for my family. Installing a toilet. My cover story was, “My son is also here with some of his friends,” but then it just seemed like I’m the distant chaperone. And that ain’t true either ’cause I really wanted to be there. My son is somewhere, somewhere here. But I felt the need sometimes to say why I was alone. It was like, “My son’s here too with his friends, but,” and they were like, “Who you here to see?” And I’m like, “Lil Yachty.” Like, love his new album. Big fan of Lil Yachty. I don’t have to be a fan of all of his music to be a fan of his approach to everything he does. Like, artistically. I like his artistic approach. He takes risks. And I was like, I hope he takes a risk at his show on Sunday. And so I’m just walking around enjoying people’s reactions. And then it occurred to me as I was walking back to see Don Toliver. I like Don Toliver. I knew that Lincoln and his friends were gonna be up there, but there was no cell phone service once you got to the main stage. You had to like back up something about the location or all of these people there. So I’m walking up trying to find him, and I’m realizing the crowd has gotten really thick a lot further back for Don Toliver than it did for City Girls. Okay. I’m not gonna be able to get to Lincoln. I cannot communicate with anyone on the group that we created ’cause they’re all down there and no service. So now I’m just alone at a concert. I’m not perusing booths. I’m in a crowd of people that then there’s people standing kind of looking overhead. There’s some space. You can kind of walk through people, walk through people, and then you get a little bit closer, and it starts to get dense. And so I wasn’t anywhere near the front by any means, but I got to the middle and was waiting for him to come out. Oh, he’s not even playing yet. Not even playing yet. And I’m smushed with people as he comes out. And then the energy just starts pushing people forward and back. And like… Then they had to stop the show a few times and just, “Get back!” Like, trying to give people in the front who are being smushed too much. And I knew Lincoln was up there. Just, “Get back! “Just everybody takes a step back.” And I’m like, this doesn’t work. Nobody does that. Nobody does that. You gotta have some sort of, you gotta develop a system. I’m thinking like, do I need to get up there and get a mic and like help walk through it. If you’re in the very back and if you don’t move, no one in front of you is gonna be able to move. So we gotta start at the very back. That’s not a very rolling loud announcement I don’t think. Yeah. The guy got up there and he was like, “All right, everybody on the left take a step to your left!” And then everybody was like, your left or our left? Yeah, right. “Everybody on the right take a step to your right!” And then he was like, nobody moved. And then he is like, “Everybody on this side, “if you can see me, step to the way that I’m pointing.” That was better. And then it was like, “And if you’re in the back, you gotta move back!” It’s like it actually started to work, and then the show resumed. But like, there was a lot of pushing, a lot of being in personal space, and I’m like, okay, my hands are up by my chin. And I couldn’t put ’em down in my pockets if I wanted to. And this was fun? It was fun because in the midst of it, like people were looking at me and they were like, and some people would recognize me, but now we’re a family. We’re stuck together in a group. Right. And so I quickly learned, if anybody recognizes me, I’m just going to turn the conversation to the music. Like, if we’re waiting. During the show, nobody’s talking. Everybody’s just like jamming out or whatever. So I was like, I like this. There was an anonymity to it. Yes, I got recognized a few times. But like once you settle in the spot and like people are playing, like the show starts, it’s kind of like you get lost in a sea of people. And it was fun. He brought out Justin Bieber. Wow. For a song. That was cool. Lil Yachty was the second night. I was more interested in him. So Travis Scott was okay. But like the next day I showed up later, and Lincoln was like, “We’ve made our way to the front of the main stage, “so let’s just work out when we’re gonna meet up “when we leave.” I’m like, “Okay, that’s great.” He was like, “I know you wanna see Yachty. “He’s on the other stage. “Get some good footage for me.” Oh. “‘Cause I have to give up seeing Lil Yachty “to stay at the front of the stage.” He and his friends end up staying there for like almost 10 hours. They were like giving water bottles in the front, and people are passing water back. So what do you do about micturating? You hold it or you just do something a little bit indecent. You squat right there or something if it’s an emergency. This where you need that stadium pal thing. I know, stadium pal. ‘Cause all the kids are wearing the big jeans now. Yep. You could probably fit four or five stadium pals in your pants. It’s highly regulated. You have to bring in a clear little bag. You can’t bring in supplies, but you can bring in a water balloon thing. Like, the thing that I have when I go- Like a camel bag, A camel bag. When I go mountain biking. You can bring one of those in. I knew I wasn’t gonna see him or his friends until the very end after Future performed. And I was like, all right, I’m gonna watch a little bit of, I missed Money Bag Yo. I heard he wasn’t great anyway. A lot of these people, they use these backing tracks and they’re like, the backing tracks doing all the heavy lifting. But if you are a pro and a legend like Lil Wayne, you bring out a live band and you have very minimal backing track because you are the GOAT. And you bring out Nicki Minaj. Wow. I didn’t see Nicki. Did Yachty have a band? I’ll get to that. So I was waiting for Yachty, and so Lil Uzi Vert’s supposed to be this like dynamic performer. So I was like, I’m gonna watch half of his set before I leave to like get up close for Yachty. And the dude comes out there and he’s nuts. But like the thing that’s, the middle screen, he’s playing clips from horror movie B movies. Like, the most grotesque moments from horror movies. Like, blood, guts, nastiness. Right, okay. The entire time. Not one song. The entire time. Right. Not really timed out to anything? No. And I had to, after the second song, I was like, you know what? I have to leave. I have to leave because this is stomach turning. That’s why he did it, to get rid of people like you. Yeah. Lincoln said he felt a little nauseous. Yeah, well he’s a Neal. But he was up at the front. Couldn’t do anything about it. I think I would’ve liked this. Had a friend with him who the first night just got smushed so much that they pulled him over the rail and then he was like, “My shoe, my shoe!” And then the security guard’s like, “Fuck your shoe!” And he pulls him out and then escorts him out of the area. That’s what I would’ve said. And so when I found him later, he’d been walking around the entire show. That was at like five o’clock at night on Saturday. He walked around the entire festival with one shoe and one sock. I mean, fuck your shoe, man. I guess. I’m down with that too. I got to the front- I might go next year. Row of Lil Yachty. What? ‘Cause I was there like 45 minutes in advance and like- In the front row? Well, I got the front row of the normal people and then there’s a VIP section. So I was as close as I could be without being very important. Still being normal. Yeah. And I’m getting to know, I was like, I started talking to the people around me and I’m like, “Hey, I just want to talk to you “because I think we might be smushed up against each other “in a little bit, and I just wanna be friends first.” And there were a couple other people who were there, like alone, and they were just there to see Yachty. And some people were just there because it was close. But, you know, it was fun to like talk about the music, and people think they knew who I was, but then they didn’t. And it was just like, “Ah, you know, I think…” Don’t worry about it. We’re just here to have fun. And then this guy showed up right as the show started with a freaking VHS camera. Oh? And that’s what shot this video. He was like, he recognized me and he was like filming the Lil Yachty show. Yes, he did have a full band. Yes, he did play “Let’s Start Here.” He like played the first three songs off that album, which is like super psychedelic. Like, him channeling Pink Floyd. People didn’t know what to do with it. That’s a new one? That’s a new one. And so he made a bold choice of like opening his show with that, and it was like, I was loving it. And yeah, this guy with a VHS camcorder like beast on his shoulder was filming me. So… Welcome to MTV News. I’m here at the Lil Yachty show at Rolling Loud 2013. It’s pretty pandemonium here, but I’m having a fabulous time. I don’t really fit in, do I? That’s the part I saw. I didn’t see the MTV News part. See there’s Yachty. I’ve met Yachty before. He was at the- At the Game- The Game Awards. Game Awards. I’d like to meet him again. I want him to come on our show or just be my friend. So I’m assuming that you weren’t officially there with MTV News? That was a joke? Yeah, and it wasn’t 2013 either, which is what I said in the moment. I just thought if this guy’s- You’re bad with numbers. If this guy’s pointing a camera at me, I’m gonna act like, I know I don’t fit in. It’s like what would be the reason I would be here? 2013. I didn’t even hear that the first time. Because I am, I’m a correspondent for MTV, that’s the only logical reason that- I love the fact that the title of the video is Rolling Loud 2013. Like, he totally went with it. Shout out to jojoworld.international on Instagram who posted this video. Yeah, he didn’t know I was gonna say that stuff. I didn’t even know if he was rolling audio. I’m glad he was. But like, yeah. And then I think I said 2013 because MTV doesn’t have VJs in 2023, and I was trying to come up- Oh, it was intentional. I was trying to come up with a date in the past that felt like it could still be realistic. Maybe 2003. 2003 is what I should have said. But yeah, you can, I mean, see my hands are up by my chin and then I’m just smushed in with all these people. You look simultaneously like you’re having a good time, but there’s also a sense of fear. I was a little… I mean, at a certain point, the artist, including Yachty, would like, in between songs, they would like yell, like, “Open it up! “Open it up!” And they’re trying to create a mosh zone where it’s like you open up a hole, and then when the beat drops, everybody just kind of slams in there. Yeah. So people can kind of mosh. I don’t care for that, and I understand that some people do. I was close enough to the rail that when he would start yelling, “Open it up,” I would just get pushed against the rail. There was a huge guy who I turned around one time and they had opened up for him and he was just flat on his face, just passed out. Two security guards came in just like- Whoa. It took three people to hoist this guy up. He was so big. He fainted? He did, yeah. Or he took a nap. I don’t know what he did. One or the other. But I mean, I had a blast. I enjoyed just being in a sea of humanity, listening to some, just vibing out to some music. So you’ll be back? I think I’ll do it again, and I think I would do it alone. Okay, well, I mean- That’s basically what I did. You probably could get some people to go with you. I mean, I’m not going, but I mean, I do think you could get some people to go with you. I was surprised that I enjoyed being alone in a sea of people. I don’t know, something about it was fun. I mean, like the swain from anonymity to being recognized, I don’t know, it was just, it was a strange experience. I’m glad I had it. “Ear Biscuits” is supported by Chime. Some of the hardest goals to set have to be financial ones. But they don’t have to feel so out of reach. With Chime secured credit builder Visa credit card, you can start building credit with your own money through on-time payments and small everyday purchases like groceries, streaming, and gas. Members see an increase of 30 points to their credit scores on average. Chime reports your payments to the major credit bureaus to help you build credit over time. All with no annual fees, no large security deposits, and no credit checks to apply. Start making your financial dreams a reality with Chime. Signing up only takes two minutes, and it doesn’t affect your credit score. Get started at chime.com/ear. That’s chime.com/ear. The Chime credit builder Visa credit card is issued by Stride Bank NA pursuant to a license from Visa USA. Chime checking account and $200 qualifying direct deposit required to apply for the secured chime credit builder Visa credit card. Based on a study conducted by Experian, credit builder members observe an average 30 point FICO score eight increase after eight months with regular on-time payments. Results may vary. See chime.com for details. Out of network ATM withdrawal fees may apply, except at Money Pass ATMs in a 7 Eleven or any All Point or Visa Plus Alliance ATM. It’s been over three years since our Saturday show “Let’s Talk About That” started. Remember that? Or actually when it came to an end. Stevie hosted. Hosted by Stevie. And everybody’s been asking for it, they want it back. And we said, you know what? We’ll bring it back sorta. We’ll bring it back for a special. As a special on The Mythical Society. We’ve actually shot that and had an incredible time doing it. There’s a lot to enjoy. Yeah, yeah. I think we all lived our best lives. Yes. In the context of that. I was surprised. Surprise for Link. A literal surprise for Link. There was a musical performance. A couple actually. There was some embarrassing things that Stevie asked about on Twitter that she covered in gross detail. So this is available for first, second, and third degree on The Mythical Society. So all you gotta do is be a paying member of any degree at mythicalsociety.com and you can get access to this. It is premiering today, March 29th. Mythicalsociety.com. “Let’s Talk About That.” So set the stage. We graduated from college. You graduated in… Technically 2001, but I co-oped and was still working at IBM, so I was kind of- Right, right, right. And I- Christy graduated in 2000. I graduated in December, 2000. ’cause I didn’t co-op. Along with you. But you were already married. And I was not married when I graduated. So this was when I was living over there at Driftwood Manor. Right. And I had, with the help of my in-laws, put a down payment on a really not great apartment, if you remember this place. Yeah. The full purchase price for a three bedroom, two bath apartment was $81,000. In 2000, year 2001. 2000. Yeah. And so what I was doing because I was still a college student and I was paying this payment, that what I did is I started inviting a lot of people to live with me beyond what code should allow. I think at one point I had five other guys living with me. I was sleeping on the floor. What? And I was charging them all rent to cover the rent. And I more than covered the rent. Oh nice. ‘Cause the, I remember- You were sleeping on the floor. I remember my payment, my mortgage was $623 a month. And then there was like some taxes and insurance that maybe sent it up, you know, still under $700 a month. And I had five guys in there each paying $200 a month to live there. Oh. So I was cash flowing right from the start. And none of these people- I was like one of those YouTube finance bros. Were people that we knew ’cause- No, Greg was one of them. I slept on the floor in Greg’s room. Oh really? Yeah, but there was a, I mean, it was a rotating batch of people who were just willing to live with me and willing to pay. This was like a halfway house? No one was in recovery. It was just a bunch of Crusade guys. Okay. And I mean there was a bunch of people that lived, Jessie’s cousin lived there for a while. I never went there. Well, you should have. It was beautiful. I probably visited you there once because I was a newlywed, Christy had graduated, we had got married immediately, and then we both started, I was still, yeah, I was still studying and working at IBM and she started a teaching job. You had your engineering job, right? I was working at Black and Veatch. Well, so upon graduation I had, oh, I had done a summer internship I think with Black and Veatch. And then I was, yeah, so basically in January of 2001- And that’s a firm that does what? Designs power plants. So like natural gas power plants mostly is what we were doing at the time. And I was in the civil engineering department, and I was basically coordinating like underground utilities, whatever. But I was engaged. Oh. Is your dog okay? I think he wants to sit with me. I was engaged at the time to get married in June, 2001, so I was gonna get married in six months. And this is a weird thing ’cause this is this moment in time where I was like this very involved landlord essentially doing all these repairs, because the other thing that happened is Jessie’s dad had bought that house in Chapel Hill, that duplex in Chapel Hill, ’cause, you know, he’s like a rental property guy. That’s one of the reasons I bought that apartment is ’cause he’s like, “This is what you do, man. “You gotta,” you know, he’s like real estate guy. And he knew I was marrying his daughter, and so he was like trying to get some things in place. And I’m grateful that he did, including Jessie and her friends were living in this duplex that he had bought for her like her sophomore year or something. And he was like, “I’ll sell this to you for what I bought it.” Oh. And so this would be, and that was gonna be the house that we lived in. I wasn’t gonna live in the college apartment with Jessie. We were gonna live in like a slightly nicer place. But the way we were gonna pay for it was by renting out the bottom to another family, a couple or whatever, ’cause it was two bedrooms, kind of. It was a duplex. Two bedrooms for us, two bedrooms for them. And I say all this because I had forgot, I was thinking about this on the way in how much of my life was consumed with doing repairs on things. So I was an engineer. That sucks. And I remember this other engineer named Lyle something, and I don’t know if you remember that downstairs in Chapel Hill, but it was- It was weird. It was a basement, and it was a weird space that was like a completed basement, but it was cinder block walls that had been painted. And I was like, if we’re gonna rent this thing out and actually get some money or actually get somebody to care to live here, I need to turn it into a good space, so I’m going to put sheet rock over the cinder block walls. Over the cinder block. Now I gotta figure out how to do that. Now step one was the Bible study that I was leading in NC State, the bunch of good old boys who were like really good at stuff, I got them to come over and like do like the furring strips to like create a base for it. Oh wow. And then I ended up, maybe with the help of like one of em ended up- Did you pay ’em? You know what? I have no idea. I bet you did. Probably. Or I probably said it was fellowship. Either way they had a great time. You know, it’s fellowship. And I remember, this is before, I mean, this is 2001 and yes, the internet existed, but YouTube didn’t exist, and you couldn’t figure out how to do things by going on the internet. Interesting. So I was like, I’ve got to put this sheet rock up, and then I’ve got to mud and sand, mud and like sand and finish the sheet rock. And this became my existence because what I would do, so I would go to work, and at lunch I would go over to Lyle’s cube. I can’t remember if that’s his name. Sorry, Lyle. And I was like, I’m doing the, he had done sheet rock in his house himself. And so I would tell him at what stage I was in, and he would like tell me what to do next. And then I would go home. Actually I wouldn’t go home. I would go to Jessie, where Jessie lived ’cause I was living in this apartment in Raleigh. Yeah. I would go out to Chapel Hill after work, and I would get in the basement, and I would work and listen to music. For some reason, a lot of Natalie Merchant. I don’t know. Oh. I don’t know how I went through this Natalie Merchant phase. And then like Sarah McLaughlin. All these like moody women. There’s something about moody women and sheet rock. And sheet rock. That really does something for me. And I would just spend all this time getting this- That’s a calendar by the way. You know, 2024 calendar, pre-order now. Moody women and sheet rock. And are they putting sheet rock up? Because I tell you, you sweat, you will sweat with some sheet rock. I could look at some moody women doing some sheet rock. They’re not happy about it usually. Sometimes they get happy, but most times they’re unhappy about it. But it’s just a weird moment in time, and then I- I think January they’re happy but every other month they’re- And then I was like installing toilets, like single-handedly doing plumbing, doing PVC pipe. I had to put this like pump, sump pump in this thing. This explains why I think our friendship just came to screeching halt. It didn’t come to a screeching halt. It didn’t, but I mean as a newlywed- I was very, very busy. You were a landlord, engaged. I was trying to, I’ll tell you what I was doing in a minute, but like yeah, it was like, you know, we were in this transitional period, so it was like there wasn’t… We were building our futures. Yeah, I was like very committed to like, I’m gonna have this apartment in Raleigh that I’m gonna go and do all the repairs myself because that’s how you make money. You can’t hire anybody to do all the repairs. I have to figure out how to do all these like minor repairs, you know? Sheet rock, plumbing, et cetera. Did you figure it out or did you- Yeah. ‘Cause that always ends in catastrophe for me. I actually got pretty skilled. I like, I could install, I mean, it’s all normal stuff. Like, I could install like a sink and fully like pipe it in. I could install a toilet. Like, literally like put the seal in- Just by talking to your cube mate? A lot of this stuff is like just talking to other people at Home Depot and then like reading directions. There’s not a whole lot to it. I made some mistakes, I learned some lessons. I can lay tile. Yeah. Lay tile, obviously paint, that kind of thing. I hate doing that stuff now ’cause I did it so much in my 20s because I kept those properties and just kept going and doing all the repairs on them. So by June when you got married, well, then you moved into that duplex. You moved out of the other place obviously. Yeah, yeah. And you were still working at Black and Veatch. Jessie was… She was a student still when we got married. Yeah. We won’t say what year she was. I don’t wanna give you a hard time. I’ve said this many times. She was going into her junior year in college when we got married. Okay. Don’t recommend it. But if you come from an evangelical circle like I did in the early 2000s, you probably relate to this. You get married so you can have sex without guilt. And that’s what we did. It worked out for us. Because we did wait. Yeah, you did it so you could have sex. Yeah, right. Not without guilt. I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her, but I really wanted to have sex with her as well. Right. The only way to complete that equation is get married. Yeah. And meanwhile over here in my neck of the woods, which was Apex, North Carolina, I was finishing up my studies but mostly working at IBM as an industrial engineer. And they had like a department. Like, my department had, probably, I think it was like five or six industrial engineers that were then assigned to different places, different things. Like, there were all these buildings, like at RTP, the IBM campus like had all these office buildings but then also manufacturing buildings. And there were some that like would build servers and then some that would build desktops and laptops. And then there was one that would just refurbish all of the stuff that came in off lease. And it didn’t even have to be IBM equipment. But it was like- Data pads. They would refurbish laptops, think pads. Think pads with the little- Servers. Little red nipple that was the mouse. Yeah, yeah. That thing felt kind of felty on top but grippy at the same time. I kind of liked it. Yeah. It’s just like, yeah, it’s just like pushing on that Rudolph the red nose nipple. Are his nipples red too? I bet you they are. They glow? I think they’re covered in fur. Oh, okay. They’re vestigial for him as a male reindeer. You could probably get some milk out of ’em if you wanted to. Anyway, the place that I worked, the facility I was in, building 693, had all the refurbishing stuff. So there were different manufacturing lines that would refurbish different things, including monitors. And so like, and then there was like this huge warehouse with all the parts in it. And like I worked with, shout out to my friend Mark. Still friends with Mark after all these years. Like, he started full-time when I was still a co-op back then trudging through all of these warehouses full of just computer parts. And so my job was designing. I kind of worked under another engineer ’cause I was still a co-op. But the first big job I got was redesigning the packaging line for, everything that was refurbished would then go through this hole in the wall on a conveyor belt, and then they would box it up and tape it up and then put it on a pallet and then put it on temporary storage to then ship it out to wherever it was going next. And then everybody who worked on the other side of that wall, the vast majority of ’em were from, they were African guys. They were like mostly from Nigeria. Like, I loved going in there and talking to those guys. They were like the nicest guys. They were always happy to see me. And little do they know that my job was to try to reduce the number of them that it took to do what they did. To find every efficiency. You know, find some efficiencies. And when I redesigned this line, I had to, I said, “You know what? “Let’s buy this machine that will take a box “and it’ll tape it up so you don’t have to tape it.” That doesn’t become a manual process. You just, you build the box, you put the thing in it, and then you push it through this machine, and it tapes the bottom and the top at the same time and spits it out real nice, instead of having to struggle to like tape this thing. So like my big project was finding that machine, talking to like these vendors to like bring this thing in and sell me on it. And do we need one of ’em or do we need two of ’em? And do we need to like change the trajectory of these conveyor belts? An industrial engineer in general doesn’t design things. They design how things are made. So it’s more about the process of making something than it is the design of actually the thing. Right. So I designed how it’d got in a box. And I remember showing up the weekend that they had to like tear everything down when like the line was down and like rebuild it. And like I was so nervous, like I probably sweated so much. Like, I had no confidence at that stage of my life. Like, I felt like such a fish outta water being in this place. I mean, you probably shouldn’t have had the level of responsibility that you did. I learned a lot. I know that I shouldn’t have had the level of responsibility that I had. They throw these junior engineers into like, I mean, I had people like checking up on me and looking over my shoulder. Right. My plan was approved, but then when I had to actually oversee the building of it, like people were coming to me and like, “Hey, when you designed this, there was a three foot gap. “But as you can see, there’s no three foot gap. “OSHA’s not gonna let anybody walk through here. “What are we gonna do?” And I’m like, “Oh shit, I knew this was gonna happen. “Let me go clean out my britches.” You know? So we didn’t actually cut any jobs in that instance. We just made it more safer and more efficient. Let me ask you a question. So I feel good about that. So anyone- No one from Nigeria or anywhere lost their job. Anyone watching this who is not familiar with our story and knows us from Good Mythical Morning and knows your personality and the things that make you funny, et cetera, is surprised, right? Is very surprised. Like… Right. This was your job? Like, you who I know as the guy who can’t hold a knife and, you know, has to have the rules of the game explained to him multiple times before he really gets ’em, is making these decisions at IBM. I’ve definitely gotten stupider. Let’s just go ahead and say that. I don’t think I was as dumb then. I think that you, like, were you a different, did your brain work differently back then? Like, how do you account for this? The perfectionism of, like, the thing that I loved the most was like getting on AutoCAD and reflecting a physical environment completely accurately within an AutoCAD environment. But would you enjoy doing that right now if that was what the afternoon entailed? Probably for maybe a couple of weeks, but not for years, you know? And again, still I didn’t do everything right. It’s like, “Oh, this three foot gap doesn’t exist “in the real world,” or, “This tape machine doesn’t actually work “as good as you thought it did. “And now we’re mad at you.” Did it work not so well? It had its issues. It needed a person there to make sure that it worked right. It needed a person. Yeah, that’s how it usually goes. So my job, I wouldn’t say my job was stressful, but I certainly made it stressful. And so like that was, it was this sense of like, okay, I’ve entered the real world. I’m tucking in my shirt for some- Everybody was. Well, you had to. You couldn’t not have your shirt tucked in. Right. You might get caught in a conveyor belt. You would be told you have to tuck your shirt in. Oh, no one told me to tuck my shirt. I wore jeans, but I did tuck my shirt in. I wore jeans on Friday. Oh wow, you had to wear slacks? Every day. You can only wear jeans on Friday. Yeah. Because I was in an office environment. Yeah. I betcha that’s not the case anymore. It’s probably, I mean, I’m sure COVID changed everything, but it probably- Oh yeah. The last 20 years have changed a lot. And then Christy had just started her job as a high school math teacher. And she did the same thing I did. She like, she probably could have been really good at, she was really good at it. She was nominated for like freshman teacher of the year, like first year teacher of the year. I think she got that award. But she stressed herself out so much in the process that like, you know, we were both in this place where it’s like, all right, we gotta do this life thing right. And so I remember being, and then we were newlyweds and we were house sitting for a couple that was missionaries in Slovakia and taking care of a full grown Weimaraner named Solomon. I remember Solomon. Beautiful dog. Regal. Very regal beagle. Yep, and he stayed in the house, and he was lovely. But yeah, it was like all of a sudden we were thrust into the real world. Here you are, like installing toilets and sheet rock. And I’m doing tape machines and trying to support my new wife in her geometry excursions. You know? It’s good to have a woman who knows her way around a triangle. She’s only three years older than, say four or five, she’s only like six years older than the students she was teaching. I know. You know? Yeah. As like a first year teacher. We were all kids. Of high school students. Very much kids. Now one of the things that, so we’ll get into talking about how what we do today was manifesting itself in those days and how that happened. And maybe talk about it in a way that we haven’t talked about it before. But one of the things that was happening with me, I’ve always been a relatively confident person and haven’t had much, you know, I’m kind of an introvert, right? And I don’t like drawing attention to myself a lot of times. But when the attention comes, I can usually settle into like comfortably commanding it. You know what I mean? Yeah. In front of a group of people, doing a presentation, talking about something. But one of the things that happened to me, and it’s not like this never happens, it happens very infrequently now, but it happened frequently then. I wanna see if you relate to this, ’cause what you were saying about like the shitting your pants moment. Yeah. Made me think of it. So there was an engineer who was a senior engineer who, Jeremy was his name. And he was basically the guy that, he wasn’t my boss, he was a coworker, but he was the guy that I went to to help me do everything. Okay. And I asked him so many questions. So many questions about so many different steps that I got to. And he was not particularly, he didn’t have the best attitude in terms of like wanting to help me. He would not take the moniker of mentor. He was a reluctant advisor. That’s funny. But one of the things that would happen, and it didn’t just happen with him, I would go to somebody’s cubicle and I would be asking a question or trying to explain something, and I would have this moment of embarrassment. Yeah. Right? A moment of embarrassment. That would turn into a little bit of a red face. Okay? I’m uncomfortable talking about it. Yeah, me too. ‘Cause it doesn’t happen very often anymore. And then I would know that my face was red, and then I would get embarrassed about that. And it becomes this loop. Oh yeah. And I’m like standing there asking this guy this question You gotta run away, about this thing. And I’m like, “He knows I’m fucking embarrassed about something right now. “And why am I embarrassed about this thing?” Right, ’cause it’s a dumb question. And that happened. That had not happened to me at all up until that point in my life. In college, I kind of understood what was going on, and I found my place and like, I was like, college, being in college, man. Best foot forward. Like, I know how to be the college guy here and to like assert myself in this way. Like, it was a great environment for me. New job and having to like, ask a lot of questions and be doing some stuff that I felt like I was in over my head, I started noticing that that was happening. And then I was like, what is wrong with me? Do I have an anxiety? I didn’t understand, I didn’t know what anxiety or anxiety disorder was at the time. And I’m not saying I did even have one, but like that started happening. You had an anxious phenomenon. And it only ever happened on a regular basis during my engineering job. That happened to me in high school. I remember- Oh really? There was this, there were two girls, two friends of ours in high school that like one time I was talking to a, I mean, she was just a friend. And I remember I was talking to her, and I don’t know what it was that I was embarrassed about, but like my face started turning red. And she was like, “Why is your face turning red?” And that- Oh gosh. When people point it out. When you talking to somebody and they’re like- You can’t come back from that. “Why is your face turning red? “Why is your neck turning red?” Oh, oh! It makes me feel uncomfortable. I know. And it’s like, and that makes it so much worse. And then all of a sudden it’s like you’re set ablaze. Yeah, you can just feel it. And there were two girls who would do it to me. And I got to the point, and they were my friends so I had to talk to ’em all the time. But it got to a point where I couldn’t talk to them without getting embarrassed for no reason, except- They triggered you. Except thinking that I was gonna get embarrassed. I got embarrassed because I knew I was getting embarrassed. That’s bad. And it was two of ’em, and they were both- They knew it too. They had power over you. And they had power over me. “Why is your face turning red?” It’s like, can you just, either I’m never gonna talk to you again or you’re never gonna ask me that again. Yeah. And then it- And if you ask somebody, listen, I’m not- It would happen after that, oh my gosh. That high school experience would then happen at other points in my life, and it would just kind of bring all that trauma back. Like, I don’t want to over sensationalize it, but it was just like, it’s a bad feeling, isn’t it? When you’re like- The worst. What files should I pull up? Oh gosh, I’m getting so hot right now. It’s the worst man. I think I’ve gotten to a place where it’s very unlikely to happen interpersonally at this point. Almost impossible. But in a certain sized group, it could happen. Right. It could still happen. And then when it starts and it’s almost, there’s like a little bit of a fear of it happening. Oh, ’cause it’s obvious. Oh, you can definitely get in your head about it. Yeah, I mean people think that like… Like, if I asked Trimer, my friend from back then, like I think he would’ve described my engineering approach as like that I was still pretty fun. I was still, there was still a lot of Link happening, but it wasn’t like it does now. Like, I’ve given myself fully over over the years of being a performer and, you know, the LA influence. Like, when you shed the expectations of having to tuck your shirt in, you know, just yourself be as weird as you is something that like is still an evolution for me. The seeds of that were there then. And like the college version of me would come out at work sometimes, but mainly it was over lunch with coworker friends. But also if I was giving a presentation, I just couldn’t help myself but say something a little goofy. Like, I knew that everybody took everything really seriously and I had these certain glimpses of realization that none of this is worth it. But it was only like if I cracked a joke or I made my presentation funny at the beginning. I did that a few times. But other than that, I took it very seriously. I remember having the opportunity to do a presentation for something in front of some department, and like I prided myself on my college presentations, right? That’s how I made A’s in college was just like- Snow ’em. Give me- Charisma. You do the work, but give me the presentation on the day. It’s gonna be fine. And I remember just going into my performance mode, which I had not done at all in any context with anybody. They were surprised. And people like came up after they were like, “Well, that was, “well, I didn’t know you had that in ya.” Like, ’cause I was like, oh, I guess I haven’t been- That guy whose face turns red every time he talks to me, he really pulled one out. He did a great job with his presentation. There was jokes and funny slides. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but I never really had the opportunity to fully become myself there because what I was doing wasn’t really- That’s not what you were hired for. No, but I’m just saying it wasn’t my, that environment for me, I wasn’t exercising my full gifting, if you will. But the way that was happening, so six months into that, Jessie and I got married, and so then we’re living in Chapel Hill, but she’s going to school. I’m still commuting to Black and Veatch. You’re married to Christy, you’re in Apex. Like, we’re both sort of establishing ourselves at like different churches. You know, you’re going to a church in Apex. I’m going to a church in Chapel Hill, which obviously as you know from our backstory, that’s a really big part of our lives. So getting involved there is like something that’s kind of unfolding. Right. But this is how the seed of what we do now was still there and it was more of like a sapling because it had been planted early in our lives and in high school and in college with all the weird stuff that we did together, videos that we made. But because we had been asked to MC Christmas conference, and that was something that was still happening, what we did is we said, “Let’s get together, hell or high water, “let’s get together once a week at one of our homes “and we’re going to just do creative things.” We’re gonna write songs. We’re gonna conceptualize video concepts, et cetera. All with this goal of, hey, we’ve gotta fill these spots come December with these entertaining ideas that we have. But boy, I just, if we had not had had that, first of all, that regular, like we had a goal, we had something that we were working towards, but then we had this, “We’re gonna get together “and that’s how we’re gonna incubate “this creative side of us.” If we had not made that decision, who knows what we would be doing today and where we would be. Yeah, I think that, I mean, we were hanging out. Like, we were making plans. Yeah. As like the four of us as couples, I’m sure we did stuff together. I’m sure we did stuff with Greg and his wife Jen. And like we were all hanging out and doing stuff, but it wasn’t every weekend. And we were living in, you know, we were living 40 minutes apart. And we also had no money. And we had no money. So your ability to like, “Well, let’s go out to eat.” It’s like, well hold on, our grocery budget is $200. Right. And that’s for all the groceries for the month. And our eating out budget is like $100. You gonna go through that pretty fast. I’m just getting at the fact that I don’t, I think that if we hadn’t had that weekly workshop, like on Thursday nights or whenever it was, I mean, I think our friendship would’ve suffered at that point. You know, we were working towards a common goal of like, we have this audience of 1,300 college students at the end of the year. Sure, it’s only February, but let’s go ahead- We took it so seriously. We were so committed to it. And I think that that’s had to, I mean, it was a big, I don’t know if it was a lifeline or a friendship, but it was certainly a big contributor to us being, staying close and having this thing to work on together. So it wasn’t just, “Hey, let’s get together once or twice a month “whenever we can get our weekend schedules to line up.” And when we got together, we not only worked on like conceptualizing skits, a lot of it was writing songs too. I do remember that because… I remember writing that “A Tribute to Friendship” song. It’s like that story song we wrote that wasn’t even funny for any reason. I remember getting together in the apartment before the one that you moved into. So I guess we started it pretty early or maybe you moved into that, I don’t remember going to that, the Sandlin place apartment and getting together. I remember when I moved out of 3000 C, there was a few months that we would still get together there, and then I remember- Yeah, ’cause there was a semester in which we still all lived there. When you moved- After you got married. And then when you got married- Well, not, just a few months. Like that summer. We lived there that summer. Okay. You got married in June. We continued to stay there for the summer, like leading up to the end of the 12 month lease. But then I definitely remember driving after working as an engineer, like getting on the road telling, “Remember, Christy, this is the night “that I don’t come home ’cause I leave work “and I’m going to Rhett’s house.” And like Jessie would like, she was like newlywed, I’m gonna make you guys dinner and want to be, Rhett’s friend’s coming over and they’re gonna work on their stuff. Well, partly because they had told us to keep doing that, you know? Right. This was all around the same time of like Greg’s wedding where we wrote his song for his rehearsal dinner. And Jessie and Christy were like, “You guys need to keep doing this.” Because the other thing that was happening, it wasn’t just preparing for Christmas conference, but I don’t remember what year it was, but right around this time is when Cole asked us to do the show at Carolina. Like, the one night only thing, which we’ve talked about this whole, we’re kind of getting into that stage that we talked about before. But that gave us something else to work towards. Yeah. There was all in the like a… There were not many years in which we ever thought, I mean, I kind of knew going into engineering that it wasn’t a permanent thing for me ’cause I tried to like change the communications ’cause I thought I was just gonna go into ministry. I was like, “I’m gonna go on stent or something. “I’m gonna be on Crusade eventually, “but I gotta wait until Jessie graduates so we can do that.” And I was a little bit more in love with the stability of the job and it was a good paying job. And at that point, we weren’t necessarily thinking about doing it together. There was no path to full-time entertainment. What you did is you like you went on stint or you like got a job at like a campus. But it wasn’t until Cole asked us to do that show. Shane Dicy saw us do that show. It was like, “You guys should do something as a position, “yada, yada yada.” All that stuff led to. So we were also working on that. But so we were pretty diligent, like getting together every week, working on stuff, developing our craft as crappy as it was. But we weren’t… Some funny observations I make now, we were not like performing for anybody. There was no outlet. It was like, let’s go to somebody’s house and write some songs knowing that we will perform these for a bunch of college students at some point. But it wasn’t like, hey, what if we went to a comedy club? Like, we never thought, to this day have never performed at a comedy club. Right. We have never done anything in way that most people would think is the logical way to go about things. We didn’t view comedy at clubs. Yeah, had never been to one. Not only didn’t perform in one, had never been to one. There’s like a famous one, Charlie Goodnights in Raleigh, which I think is gone now, but… Yeah, but we didn’t, yeah, we didn’t do any of that. Never crossed our minds that we would do that. Or we would be like, well, let’s put on a little show or let’s go and perform in this context. ‘Cause it was very much about live performance ’cause it was like we’re gonna have these students’ attention. But it’s funny because we were, yeah, we were doing these things that feel very like you gotta like get your stuff together. We’re always responsible and dependable to a fault. Yeah. I think I would still categorize us in that way. You know, like we carry out our lives and our business and our relationships in a very responsible and dependable way. Almost sometimes so much that that it can get in the way of just like the being a weird creative person. We never did anything ’cause we felt like it. We always did something ’cause we had obligated ourselves to do it. And then it’s like, well, that just means we, like we have to do it. It doesn’t matter what you feel about it. Right, so okay, well, this is the way that you have to do this. If you’re gonna have this apartment and you gotta get these guys to do this, and then you gotta do the repairs, and then you gotta get this job, and you have to do it in this way and do this presentation in this way. We’re all thinking that same way. And then when the opportunity to apply that principle to entertainment came along in the very weird way that it came along for us, we applied the same level of process to it that we’ve just kind of carried over for the past 17, 18 years up to this point. But we’ve thankfully been able to do it in a way that now yes, we are different people in a lot of ways. Right? In terms of like, what is your day like and what are you thinking about? How are you approaching things? Yes, there’s still this like sense of responsibility and duty to our family and our, you know, employees and making sure that these things are done in the right way. Still very important to us. It’s like ingrained. You’re never gonna get rid of it. But yeah, it’s like if that version of me and that version of you were to come into this room right now and sit down, first of all I would be like, “Hey man, I have a few style tips.” Yeah. But I would also be like, “It’s gonna be interesting to see the way “that that evolves over the next 20 years for you “as you start to think about it a little bit more.” Right? And then of course we would have a really interesting spiritual conversation because we were very locked in on a very particular way of thinking about things, and we’re 100% sure without doubt that we were right about it. And so that would’ve been an interesting conversation to see what we have become, the heretics that we have become. But I think that if we were to have a conversation about the creative things that we’re doing, if we were to be like, “Let me tell you what we did yesterday.” Oh god, we’d flip out. Yeah, it’s great. We’d be like, “Oh yes! “We get to do that? “Can we do that?” ‘Cause we never gave ourselves full permission to just like, just put the dream out there. It was like we didn’t talk about the dream all the time. We talked about the thing that we were working on, the next thing. And it wasn’t like, if you have a band and you’re like, you talk about the dream of getting a record deal, you know? There’s a path. Because there was no set path, it was like, okay, this may be all we’ve got. We’ve got this show at the end of the year that we, well, we’re MCing this conference, we’re just gonna turn it into our show when we get our 10 minute segments. And then your brother’s like, “Hey, come to Carolina and talk to my students “and make it into a comedy show.” It was like, okay, we can obsess about that. But it wasn’t, there were no, we couldn’t connect those dots to any larger dreams. So it was very much like scrambling around in the dark, and it was unspoken a lot of times, you know? What it is we were working towards because, you know, it didn’t exist. So, you know, I give us a lot of credit that with no path, with no instruction manual, we still found a way to like stick with it. We’re gonna get together. We have these isolated events and we’re gonna obsess about ’em. And that was fun and fulfilling. And I hope it can be encouraging for people, you know, ’cause again, it doesn’t have to be the case. Like, you know, if you’ve got a job right now, you’re working, doing something, and first of all, make the most of what it is that you’re doing and find as much joy as you can in it, you know, but maybe there’s something- Meet a Nigerian. Get married. But maybe there’s something that is a point of passion that you don’t necessarily understand how that could even be a career. And maybe it isn’t. Maybe it’s just a really awesome hobby. Yep. But I just think it’s important to see that thing like a little plant. Yeah. And that plant needs things. That plant doesn’t need to be put into the attic and covered because it will die. Give it a little something. And you’ll have to find a new seed somewhere. Right. Give it a little something all along the way. If you just keep giving it, you keep feeding it in some way, you don’t know what it’ll grow into. Yep. You have no idea, but you gotta keep feeding it. If you don’t kill it, it can grow into something. Boy, that ended on a motivational speech. I like that. That involved a plant. Yeah. Your wife will be proud. Yeah, she would. She would. I think she’s nurturing her love for plants for that exact reason. Well, that leads nicely into my rec, if you’re ready for that. I’m ready for this rec, yeah. I hinted at this recently when I said I had a rec, but I told you like a something from this rec, but now I’m gonna give you the rec. Speaking of creativity. So I have found this podcast called “Spark and Fire: Fuel Your Creativity.” This is from the WaitWhat people in BBC. And every single episode is essentially talking to a creative person who did something that you probably know about. For instance, a good episode is Ryan Johnson talking about “Knives Out.” And the name of this episode is “Cultivate a Child’s Sense of Wonder: “Knives Out Director Ryan Johnson.” So there’s always like, this is kind of the principle of creativity that we’re going to suss out over the course of 45 minutes or so. And it’s an interview, but what you hear is like a setup. It’s very well organized in this way that like, this is the principle that Ryan Johnson is about to elucidate in this conversation about “Knives Out.” And it’s gonna be fun. You’re gonna learn things like, how long has he had this idea? How did it come about? Like, what was he thinking? Like, what childhood experiences and stuff led him to, and he’s actually realizing some of this like in the interview, like, “Oh, I guess this was from my grandma’s house,” or whatever. Huh. So you hear that and then- But it’s formatted- They format it and then like the woman who hosts it will be like, “I’m going to now that he’s finished talking,” ’cause it’s all produced, you know, “say the principle that you should take here.” And how long is an episode? Well, like 45, this one, the Ryan Johnson one’s 45 minutes. Oh. Some of ’em are 36, some of ’em are, it’s between 30 and 45. And then every episode is originally scored by someone. Okay. Well, if you’re gonna talk about creativity, you’d better be creative. That’s overkill for a podcast, but I definitely appreciate it. “Spark and Fire.” You know, there’s like Pat Oswald talking about like coming back with this special after his wife’s death. And then there’s just people that I didn’t even know about. Like, the thing I was telling you about, the don’t take yourself too seriously but take your work very seriously. That’s from this guy Mark Bradford, who’s a visual artist who creates these incredible things, these tapestries where, I have to tell you about this because I want to go see him. I think he’s got some in LACMA, but he takes like a medieval tapestry. Okay. And he takes a picture of it, you know, like he takes a picture of a medieval tapestry or takes a picture that, he finds a picture of one, then he prints it out on this giant sheet of paper or canvas or something. So it’s like feet across. And then he starts putting stuff onto it. All these different materials, it fills like, kind of like junk, but putting it in there inspired by and basically kind of like, “Oh, here’s a horse here. “I’m gonna make that horse out of this thing, “and then I’m gonna make this guy out of this thing.” And he builds it and he builds it and he builds it. And so he’s actually creating interpretive layers of an original work of art over time through different materials. And then he takes acid, and he starts peeling back some of the layers with acid. And he sees how it happens, and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. And it’s just this remarkable… I was so inspired listening to it. I’m not doing a great job of articulating it. But the idea that he’s starting with this original thing that’s this inspirational palette and then building these creative layers on it, and then trying to capture something that’s a multi-layered interpretation of this original work of art. And because this is such an amazing thing and he does it so amazingly, he’s become this very in-demand visual artist that’s got his work everywhere. And he’s just very inspiring to listen to talk about it. You haven’t even seen the art. Look at you. No, but I’m like, I wanna know this guy. He’s in LA. I want to know him. Oh, you wanna be his friend? I wanna be his friend. He’s also 6’8″. Oh. So I like, you know, I don’t know a lot of tall people. He can reach tall tapestries. Tall people tend to have the demeanor that I can match with. We like making ourselves- Why’s your face turning red? We like making ourselves small and doing big things. I like tall people. I’m tall. Shout out to tall people. “Spark and Fire.” All right, there it is. #EarBiscuits. Let us know what you think about all this. Please leave us a voicemail with how you’re processing things. 1-888-EARPOD1. Yeah. Hey Rhett and Link, my name’s Barry. I’m a longtime fan, especially the podcast. I just wanted to say that I’m blown away by the digging a medium size whole video that you guys made on the Rhett and Link main channel. When y’all talked about moving away from TV and embracing more digital content, I think this is like a perfect example of that. I’m just really proud of how good that video is, and I wanted to give props to everyone involved in making it. In my opinion, it was a masterpiece. And I hope it’s indicative of more of future content. So thank you guys a lot that, I mean, I’m just blown away. It was awesome. Thank you guys. To watch more “Ear Biscuits,” click on the playlist on the right. To watch the previous episode of “Ear Biscuits,” click on the playlist to the left. And don’t forget to click on the circular icon to subscribe. If you prefer to listen to this podcast, it’s available on all your favorite podcast platforms. Thanks for being your Mythical best.