Welcome to “Ear Biscuits, the podcast where two lifelong friends talk about life for a long time. I’m Link. And I’m Rhett. This week at the Round Table of Dim Lighting, we are discussing friendships and to be specific, the friendships of men with men. Yeah, we’re two are those. We’re guys who- We are men friends. Who are friends and you know, there’s a lot of generalities here. And so, like, we’ll couch that, but, you know, I’m curious how much we fall into guy tropes, guy friendship tropes, and how much we subvert or expand beyond those. It’s funny you should ask that, Link. Yeah, And I’ll go ahead and get the disclaimer right now since we’re getting started. And we’ve already said the friendships of men, which might right from the top, seem like it’s not very inclusive, so, I wanna discuss that. And I think that today’s discussion of friendship will be potentially helpful to you regardless of where you land on the gendrum, which is the gender spectrum. I call it the gendrum. The gendrum. I’m trying to, you know- That’s a nice. Get more efficient in my language. That’s a trendy term. Oh, the correct word is gendrum. So, however, we’re going to be talking about what a bunch of research has shown about the differences between the friendships of men and the difference and the friendships of women. And one of the reasons the research has shown differences between men and women’s friendships is because traditionally these studies have divided people into the binary of men and women and looked at the differences. And so, as Jenna was pointing out a second ago when we were talking before we got started, you know, there haven’t been a lot of studies that are specifically identifying non-binary people or people along the gender spectrum and that’s beginning to happen more, so we’ll have more insight. Right. But what we have found in sort of dividing people into that binary is that there are differences that, for a myriad of reasons, sort of nestle on each side of the spectrum. We do kind of observe certain things happening on this side of the spectrum and other things happening on this side of the spectrum. And they’re really interesting differences. And so I think that they can sort of be illuminating and insightful regardless of where you’re at on it. And also, yes, I think that in looking at what these studies have shown, I do think that we fall into some of these tropes, but then I think there’s some of these tropes that we have kind of defied. Okay. And the reason why we decided to talk about this is ’cause it’s just another facet of what we found ourselves exploring in our latest Rhett & Link channel video where we experience 1984, the year that we first met, and we construct a scavenger hunt mixed in with a music video that ends with us reclaiming the recess that we never had when we first met. But yeah, in the lyrics of the song, we’re alluding to some of these generalities of like, how guys relate to each other, or at least the trope of that. So, we’ll get into some of that, but watch the video. You know, watch it again. Please. If you’ve already watched it. Please watch the video. 1984 on the Rhett & Link channel. Watch all the videos we’re putting out over there. We’re very excited about it. Okay. But yeah, I think these studies is just a good backbone to then talk about our own experiences and our own feelings about relationships, friendships. And Jenna is present. And Jenna is a woman. And Jenna may have a perspective on this. Do you have a perspective on friendship, Jenna? I believe I do. Yeah. I do have quite a few decade-plus long friendships with other women. Okay. So we’ll see if- Compare and contrast. Yeah. Where these things might line up. Yep. So, let’s start with, I think, the thing that would be, again, as you mentioned, these are general observations, right? And it’s usually a mistake to take a general observation and then try to apply it to a specific person because that specific person may or may not line up with the general observation. This is, when we look at populations of people, groups of people we tend to see trends. And so don’t think any of this is like, well, if you’re a man or you’re a woman or neither, these things do or don’t apply to you. That’s not what this is about, but I think this is pretty tropish. Studies generally find that women on average have higher emotional literacy than men, which includes emotional recognition, understanding management and expression. And these are some of the ways that that plays out in a friendship, I’m just gonna read some of the research here. So, I will reference the studies at certain times, you might get tired of hearing it, but a study titled, “Gender and Friendship: Why are Men’s Best, Same-Sex Friendships, Less Intimate and Supportive.” Published in the “Personality and Social Psychology” bulletin in 2011, found that women’s friendships often involve more emotional sharing and self-disclosure compared to men’s friendships. I’m gonna read all these little things ’cause they’re all related and then we can discuss. Okay, yeah. Men’s friendships often involve less emotional intimacy compared to women’s friendships. Despite men desiring similar and emotional intimacy from their friendships, they are less likely to actually achieve this intimacy due to fears of appearing feminine or gay, hence the lyric, we’re not queer but we’re supportive, from our song. We were kind of playing into that. That’s from a 2015 study, “Men in Masculinities.” And also men’s friendships may provide less emotional and practical support compared to women’s friendships as per a study in the “Journal of Social and Personal Relationships in 2009.” Okay, again, these are things that you might, if you were just like sort spitballing differences between men’s and women’s friendships, you might say that women seem to be more in tune emotionally with their friends than men. I think we can even start with like the lyrics of the song, like playing off of the whole, using physical maps in the video, and say, “You are here.” And then the other guy says, “And I’m here for it.” I’m here for it. You know, just saying, “You know what? I enjoy our friendship. I’m here for our friendship. I show up for it, I look forward to it. I’m engaged here.” To actually say that, to me, there’s a barrier to even saying that, you know, even before you get to saying other things is just expressing an appreciation of like, valuing a friendship, it might feel a little awkward. It’s just not the type of thing that, you know, a lot of people find themselves saying. And I think this study is saying that guys in general are less likely to say it. And I relate to that, you know, ’cause it just feels like you’re getting sappy. You’re expressing emotion, you’re expressing care for a friend, and it’s not the type of thing that you find yourself doing. There’s like some things to overcome, but that we kind of backed into this place when we were, I was like, “There’s something about like that place on the map.” Like, we were writing a song about maps, really, is what I thought we were doing. And then it was like the you are hereness of it and being here for it. Like, oh, there’s something there. And then, that felt like a breakthrough in the song. And then. For me, at that moment, when we were like, “You are here and I’m here for it.” Was, oh, now, this song is about our friendship. And queer rhymes with here. Yeah. And then the next one. And literally, it was. We are not, but we are supportive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, when you came up with that rhyming pair, I was like, “Oh, that’s it, that’s it.” It’s one of those things where it’s like, the comedy was sort of leading, but then it was so on theme that we were like, and I think this is a specifically as it relates to us, lots of people think or insist on the fact that we are actually in a secret gay relationship, right? And I think that this is actually- Yeah. I actually think that this is a symptom of the way that male friendships manifest, right? I think that the reason that people will be like, “Well, those guys must be gay.” Is actually just an indication that, well, there’s something sort of broken with male friendships in general. Yeah, I feel that. Oh, well, if you’re together all the time, if you’re sharing life in this way, you guys have worked together forever. If you celebrate your connection. You must be gay. If you celebrate a connection, then it must- It has to be romantic. Right? Whereas people would be much less likely to make that accusation, not that being gay is, I mean, in this situation it tells negative, but no, it’s just like, we’re not gay, but people think that we are, you wouldn’t necessarily do that with two women that have been in a friendship for a long time. In fact, if my wife says, you know, if my wife is talking to somebody else and she says, “My girlfriend said so and so, so and so.” There’s a moment where people are like, is she talking about- A partner? Or is she talking about just a friend? But I never have referred to you as my boyfriend. Men don’t refer to their boyfriends as boyfriends. If a man says this is my boyfriend, you just assume that he’s talking about his romantic partner. And again- And that’s the problem, boyfriend. We’re not gonna get into the like, what part of this is biological? And what part of this is cultural? The fact is that we are all kind of subject to the culture and the norms, and they’re being redefined in helpful ways. But you can’t help that if you were born and raised in this atmosphere where for whatever reason, men have a reputation. And I actually think it is a reality are are not as emotionally available to one another. Even if they want to be, they have a tougher time being emotionally available in disclosing things. I mean, these studies talk about the self-disclosure. They have less self-disclosure, less sharing- Right, yeah. Of what’s happening emotionally. I remember back in grade school, I looked over a couple of guy’s shoulders, including Zach, and there was this trend of making a list of your friends. Oh. And these were guys that I remember doing this and it was, you know what? “Well, where am I at on Zach’s list? Where would he be on my list? Can I make a list?” Because I wasn’t making a list. I’m just seeing if I’m on other people’s list. Did you make a list? Do you remember this list happening back in grade school? These are my best friends. I remember more of the girls doing, I didn’t remember seeing any guys do it, but I guess I wasn’t looking over Zach’s shoulder. I think I was on Zach’s list, but I was kind of low. You know, I think that’s accurate. In Bows Creek you get to like seven or eight and you run out of people put in the list. Well, it might’ve been five. Okay. You know, or six. At this is lower half. Obviously, you would’ve been very high on my list, if not, you know- If not! If not number one. Yeah, I mean, sometimes we were. What grade are we talking about? It might be second grade. Well, second grade we were in a different class. Right. Outta sight, outta mind. Outta sight, outta mind. We were always on each other’s list. And practically at the top of the list. But I don’t even think I actually made a list. I never made a list. But it was interesting that at that age we felt like a little bit, there was some permission to do that. And then, at a certain point, it’s like, yeah, you might know that, in our friend group growing up, we were the tightest, especially when you get to high school. That’s when we started getting, there was the rumors of being gay. And I think it’s just, you know, people, guys are missing out on expressing how much they value a relationship. Do you remember how intense that rumor got? I’ve kind of totally forgotten about this, but there was a guy. I’d forgotten about it entirely. I know you mentioned it on an “Ear Biscuit” like a year ago, or. I’ll mention it again because- Mention it again. Not everybody listens to every episode. No, no, no. I can’t remember his name. And of course, this is at a time where culturally it was very different, specifically where we were at, it was very different. And specifically what we believed in the worldview that we were operating under, which is that being gay was wrong. And not just wrong, but it was like shameful and the worst thing that somebody could accuse you of, right? Sadly, yes. It was like, that’s the culture that we were in. And I think that this guy was writing it, this is freshman year, he was writing Rhett & Link are gay in multiple places around the school. And I found out who it was and confronted him. And I’m a lover, I’m not a fighter. I don’t come in with fisticuffs as they say. I come in with like, “Hey, bro, let’s talk about this.” But I don’t know who it was. I can’t even remember the dude’s name. Oh, really? Okay, so it was. I think his first name started with a D. Okay. I can’t remember his last name. And that’s not a dick joke. If you thought that. No. That would’ve been a dumb one. It would’ve been a bad dick joke. And he ended up, he had to go to the principal’s office. I don’t know why I don’t remember the experience at all. He had to go to the principal’s office. I haven’t thought about that. Maybe I never saw. Since the last time I talked about it on “Ear Biscuits” But yeah, so that accusation has been around for quite a long time because when two guys spend as much time together as we always did. Yeah. And not just spending time together, like, we’ll talk a little bit about this in a second about sort of the nature of male friendships as they relate to activities, but we did a lot of stuff together. And it was like, well, if there’s a talent show thing. Well, Rhett & Link are gonna be up there doing this thing together. Like, oh, there’s a lip sync contest at the dance, Rhett & Link gonna be DJ Jessie Jeff with the Fresh Prince, you know? Oh, yeah. And so, we came into high school with that kind of mentality. They were like, yeah. Peas in a pod. We hang out all the time. Attached at the hip. And also I will say- Sexual partners. I will say that we did not do ourselves any favors. We came in pretty hot to freshman year, if you don’t recall, when within two weeks of starting school, we were both dating two of what we’re considered, you know, back when they used to rank the girls in high school, which, horrible practice. But in Harnett Central High School, the ranking of the hottest girls included, we got two of the top five according to everyone at school who were older than us in our freshman year. And this was a huge upset for me, I mean, like- Didn’t that clarify things? No, but I think that, like, it made this guy a little bit, he was, you know what? He was a friend of one of ’em. That’s where it came from. Oh! And he was older than us as well. Oh. And it’s like these two Booze Creek boys come in, they’re hanging out all the time, they’re dating the hottest girls. They must be gay. That adds up. Or we need to establish that. Anyway, my high school started strong, didn’t end as well. So, I’m not saying anything about my prowess, I’m just saying I had a good start. It’s okay to say, “Rhett’s my best friend.” Or, “We are best friends.” But to say to the other person, “I value our friendship.” Like, “I care about you.” And you know, I think we’ll get into more of the emotional stuff with like the next study, right? So like, talk about like the L word. But yeah, it wasn’t something that we did, it’s something that given the trajectory of our friendship and our career, and kind of building our career on our friendship, you know, there’s been this journey of exploring every aspect of it, we’re doing it again right now, that I think has opened us up to levels of appreciation that I think otherwise it would’ve been really hard to get here, and most guys don’t get to that point. I think if your friendship with someone is one of the calling cards of your brand, which you make a living through, and you’ve kind of built a company around. Now, first of all, that’s fraught with its own issues, right? Of navigating that. But it’s also very good for making sure that you are talking to each other. And even as part of your brand, you’re talking about your relationship. And yeah, I think about, I don’t have any other friendships where that is the case, I have close friendships and I have friendships, like, I have friendships with guys that there’s an emotional intimacy that can immediately pick up where it left off, even if like we haven’t talked for months, it’d be like, oh, there’s not any awkwardness. I’m gonna ask you how you’re doing. I’m gonna ask you about your, how’s fatherhood? How’s your marriage, How’s your job? Like, it gets intimate very quickly because that’s the nature of those friendships. Yeah. But, I mean, it’s a different thing when, yeah, you’ve got it kind of built into the structure of your schedule. For the average guy who doesn’t have that, it happens through what we’re gonna talk about next, which is shared activities, which it creates this. Right. Which is what a lot of male friendships are based on. Before we get into that. We gonna promote the comedy special. Yeah, I want the standup comedy special. Yes. Over on the “Mythical Society.” You know, we’ve got a bunch of people here in Mythical who are very funny, very talented, and have specific experience with standup comedy. And we put together a little special for a little crowd of mythical folk and had a great time. And exclusively for you if you’re a society member. We had a great time. So you can watch that on the Society. So if you’re listening to this audio the day that it comes out, it’s gonna be Wednesday, June 7th. If you’re watching this, well, today or anytime after, you can go over there and watch it. It’s already out. And let me tell you, it exceeded my expectations, which were not low. Lots of good laughs. And it’s first, second, and third degree. This is available for all members of the society. So go over there mythicalsociety.com. Watch the comedy special. So, what’s the next study talk about? Okay, there’s a few, but this is all about friendship, and maintenance, and shared activity. So a study in 2006, the “Glass Partition: Obstacles to Cross-Sex Friendships at Work.” Published in Human Relations. Suggest that women may put more effort into maintaining friendships, often through communication and mutual sharing, whereas men’s friendships may be more reliant on shared activities. And then another study, men’s friendships are more often based around shared activities like sports or hobbies according to studies like gender differences in friendship patterns, 1996. So again. If you you got this generalization that if you see a group of women in a circle and you see a group of men in a circle, you can guess what they’re talking about. It’s much more likely that women are talking about, they’re connecting, and the men are just saying, “Well, what are we gonna do?” Or they’re talking about a shared interests. The guys are. Sports creates. Guys stand around a grill and talk about the meat. Stereotypical male. I mean, you know, I’ve said this before that like one of the things, you know, I would say that if you were doing a percentage breakdown of my conversations with my dad, my text thread with my dad, a very high percentage of that is sports related. Because I know the kinds of sports events that he watches that I also watch, and I’m like, “Well, this is happening right now. He’s probably watching this.” If I text him, we are currently experiencing the same thing. Which is cool. And we’re connecting over that. Again, in some ways it ends up being this thing that like, oh, you know, men really just wanna be, you know, the joke is men really just wanna be intimate with one another, and self disclose, and be around one another. But the only way that they could do that is direct all that passion and that energy towards a guy with a ball who’s not either one of them. You know what I’m saying? Yeah. And it’s just like, “We got all this energy, we just wanna hug each other, but we wanna watch that guy slam that guy.” And that’s how we’re going to experience it. I mean, definitely the doing of things, it just seems like it’s just the default. What are we gonna do? Let’s do something. Let’s go for a hike. I mean, actually, we were talking even, you know, a few minutes ago, it’s like, “Okay, well, let’s plan something, let’s go surfing again. It’s been a long time since we’ve been surfing.” And it’s kind of an easy way to then know that you’re gonna connect, but it’s like we’re doing something shoulder to shoulder, it might be watching something or walking towards something or surfing towards something. But it’s a lot easier to then find the connection along the way it feels than just like- But it’s also easier. Sitting down and just staring at each other. But it’s also easier to not connect too. It is. So, it’s like, again, you’re together and this common interest has brought you together. And I would say that a lot of guys have a friend who is their blank fill in the blank friend. He’s my golf buddy. Yeah. My poker buddy, the whatever. And so it’s just like, this guy falls into this category because I do this thing with him. Whereas if we’re not, like, I don’t know what I’d do if we weren’t playing golf. And, you know, I think- Yeah. Thankfully, I think that this is, my guess is that this is also a generational thing. I would suspect that guys in their 20s, this is not nearly as much the case as it is for guys in their 40s or guys older than us. Like the older you are, the more you are kind of associated with an older generation, the more this is probably the case because things are shifting and kind of opening up. Yeah. In this becoming, you know, these stereotypes are kind of being revealed in many ways sort of a result of these cultural norms that have been reinforced and people are having their way with those, and breaking ’em open, and men can be intimate a good trend in the same way. So, I like where the trend is headed. And women can just play golf together, just for the sake of playing golf. I mean, Jenna, well, how do you feel about these generalities when it comes to like, guys, just like to do stuff together, and women just get together and just weep? Well, that was pretty harsh. I mean, I’m just trying to over generalize. I don’t feel like you ever said that that’s what women do when they get together is they just. No, I was joking, but there’s like more of a permission to connect emotionally and to share thoughts and feelings, self-disclosure, as we talked about. Well, I will say, ’cause I have those friends that are kind of categorized in the things I do with them. Like, I have my universal annual pass friends. Okay, yeah. Who we always go to the park together and that’s where we catch up. But like as that’s how we started, but as our like friendships evolved, like we get together outside of the park now, and we check in on each other, it’s not all about universal, like we have a text thread that’s not all about like universal stuff. It’s about like other life things as well. So, I think like that, yes, to the activities. But I feel like that’s what you all do as well. You have the activities but you also talk about life when you do those things. Yeah, we do. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I have a text thread with my dad friends, but it’s mostly the text thread is planning the next thing, you know. Text threads and are one thing. And our college friends that text thread is planning the next thing, which may be a phone call but there’s not a lot of like- To our credit, I will say that with the college buddies, we haven’t been great about the frequency lately as everyone’s lives have gotten back to normal. But during the pandemic we started a regular connection that was, again, it was about just connecting. And ’cause everybody in that group is an emotionally mature guy who understands the benefit of that type of interaction and that sort of intimacy. Yeah. And interestingly, I think a lot of that came from our background in church, but also the specific type of ministry that we were involved in with like, you know, Campus Crusade. There was a lot of sharing in circles. Yeah, yeah. Like, literal circles, You get together with a group, mostly it’s divided by gender, at least it was with a Crusades. So it’s like you got a guy bible study, you got a girl bible study. And unlike those heathens and inner varsity that put the guys and the girls together, what were they thinking? But you got pretty good at being honest, and like disclosing, and having those conversations. So, I think a lot of that with those guys, because we all gotta know each other in that environment, is kind of based on that level of intimacy, which was a little bit of a weird sort of like benefit that we got. We don’t agree with everything that we learned in that setting, but there were some life skills that we referenced quite often. But to me, it’s about your phone calls, right? And again, I’m just talking about my beautiful wife, Jessie, who makes phone calls to people and the purpose of the phone call is the phone call. Yeah, that’s fine. Okay, okay. Okay, okay. I never do that. If I call you, I have a reason. Right. That the phone call is serving. And I’m not saying I do this on purpose, I don’t calculate this. I’m just saying, and I probably should just call people to catch up, But even when it is just to catch up, it is precipitated by an event like it’s their birthday. You know what I’m saying? Yeah. How you doing? Happy birthday. Let me talk to you and figure out how you’re doing now. But no calls out of the blue. And this makes me not as good of a friend, I will freely admit that, that a good friend I think will call you and just catch up. But it’s just not in me naturally to be like, I’m gonna call this person to connect, whereas every time I hear my wife talking to someone on the phone, it seems like the only purpose is to connect. You know what I’m saying? Yeah, I don’t do that. I mean, I’ll call, I mean, it’s usually now it’s just like a text to, like, well, let’s get coffee. You know, I wanna catch up. But like, I don’t consider the phone like a viable option for that, I gotta go a step further, there’s gotta be a coffee involved or grabbing a beer. Jenna, you call people just to talk? No. I am also horrible about this. I’ll do it with like a very select few, like a couple family members, and like one or two friends. But usually, there’s some other, like I need their advice on something, and that’s why I am call. Like it’s not just to call or like, I haven’t seen my niece in a while. I wanna see my niece, which I guess is like, just because call. But yeah, I don’t do that at all. And I have friends who do that constantly. Like, my best friend has friends of hers that will call her every single day just to, and I think it’s crazy, I think it’s, I’m like, whoa. That’s a lot. You just talked yesterday and like, . Yeah. So, I think that’s too much for me. But like the relationship I have with my best friend like her and I don’t have that. Like we see each other constantly ’cause we also live together. So it’s like, I’m not gonna just call her outta the blue for no reason anyway. I’m gonna go in this other room to call you again. But like she has like many friends who will call on a regular basis and she will call on a regular basis just to chat. And I’m like, “We are not the same person, I cannot do this.” Well and then, you know, you talked about the L word. We could talk about that a bit, it kind of ties these first two things in together. You know, the ultimate emotional disclosure, saying that you love somebody. Jessie ends 70% of her conversations with I love you. So that’s meaningless. No, no. Like Jessie, you know, will talk to someone who works for her at Jessie Lane Interiors and end the conversation with I love you. I mean, I think it’s wonderful and beautiful, but it is so different than the way, like , okay. So back to our song. I’ve never told an employee that I love him. Back to our song ’cause the lyric is, Like a brother from another mother But I won’t tell you I love you ’cause that might make it weird. Weird rhymes with queer and here, again. It’s the rhyme leads us. ‘Cause, yeah, if it’s like, I love you, you know, it’s just like, it’s weird out of the blue, I mean, there’s people, like I talked to dad on dispatches about, you know, there’s people who wrote him emails about how we end every podcast saying that we love each other. Yeah. Which is what we do on a phone call. But there’s a lot of people who they don’t have that with their parent. And I just chalked that up to, if if you don’t do it from, like, if you don’t establish that that’s part of something that you do, then it’s hard to start doing it at a later date. Yeah, it was not commonplace. Okay, in my household growing up, I felt a lot of love and I was shown a lot of love. And both of my parents would say, “I love you.” In certain contexts. But as a way to say goodbye, it just wasn’t a part of the way that we talked to each other. So there wasn’t an, I love you, at the end of a phone conversation once I was in college. However, at some point, as adulthood set in, especially once we moved out here and now we’re like in a different place, and there’s a much less interaction when we lived in the same town or like, right? You know, very close to each other, it was different, regularly say, “I love you.” To end a conversation with either of my parents or my brother, at this point. But I think that’s also a function of the fact that, like, as our friend group developed when we got to LA, we made friends with people who said, “I love you.” At the end of a like, hanging out. Yeah, there were a few of those. Like, other dudes that you would like hug when they showed up and hug when they left, and you say, “I love you.” And I was kind of like- Or it might be, “Love you, man.” Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you add a, ya, and a, man. Right. Then it’s kind of like that couches it a little bit. Yes. But that’s still something. And we’ve talked about this before, this is where it gets a little bit weird with us. Yeah. Because we share many of the same friends. And we have these gatherings where, okay, like if Mike- There’s a guy you don’t love as much as you love me, that you’re telling that you love him because he told you he loved you. We’ll talk about Mike. Well, what about me? So, Mike is our mutual, really good friend of ours. And you may know him as science Mike. And you know, Mike said a lot of the things that if together that we would do, and that’s the kind of relationship we have with Mike, it’s hugging, it’s saying, “I love you.” And then, like, I’ll like be hugging him bye, saying, “I love you.” And like, well, there you are, you do the same thing to him. Right. And then it’s like, well, I guess, the next logical step is for Rhett and Link. Right. To hug and say, “I love you.” But we cool, like, we may do it, but like, it’s sort of this like, ah, let’s be funny about it. It’s a little silly. Because this is like, I’m gonna see you at 8:00 AM. You know what I’m saying? Like, and it’s just not something that we ever did. So like, is there ever a point when we would, we’d have to make a decision to change? Like, I think the first times that we said I love you to each other were like in the context of a video where it was like, Really? I think so. I think on GMM or something where it was just like, That might be true. And it was for the comedy of it, but the comedy was like, yeah, we never actually say this to each other. There’s no doubt that we do love each other. But it’s that brotherly thing of like, I mean, you had to make a decision to start saying, telling Cole that you love him. Yep. And that was an adult decision, right? Cole’s my brother. I’m not defending. I’m just trying to explain a little bit. it’s an interesting dynamic. I think that there’s, yeah, there’s a lot. There’s friends that I’ve made now that as an adult that are more emotionally connected to themselves and are more comfortable saying, “I miss you. I haven’t talked to you in a while.” Or, you know, I had a friend text me and we were talking about getting together and I’m like, “When do you wanna hang? Let’s hang out.” And then, he was like, “Yeah, I really miss your energy.” Is what he told me. And I was like, “Man, that made me feel good.” But that’s not something that I said to him. But it’s something what was behind me initiating the text, to like say, “Hey, how are you doing? Let’s hang out.” But the truth of it was, “Hey, man, I really value our friendship and I miss your energy, let’s get together.” But it’s a way of speaking that just like wearing your heart on your sleeve. I’m a fan of that. I feel like I do that, I do a decent job of that at certain times, but I still have to make up my mind to do it. And I’m inspired by when I receive that level of openness from another guy friend especially, it’s like, oh, I’ll note that. And like, maybe, I can change, maybe I can be that person who puts myself out there a little bit more and say, “I miss hanging out, it’s been too long. I miss you.” ‘Cause, like, saying that is just as hard as saying, I love you almost, maybe, you know? Yeah, I think, for me, there’s two things. The vulnerability to it. I think there one thing is that- It doesn’t fall in a masculine column. Is that I am would definitely an introvert, when it comes to like, where I get my energy from, I get it from being alone. And so like- Okay. I love being with people. I love being in groups of people and I have a really good time. And obviously, introversion and extroversion is really just a framework to understand, you know, people. And I think that it is best explained as where you kind of get recharged, is it with someone or not with something? It’s not really like your personality characteristics ’cause, obviously, I’m comfortable in a group. And I look people in the eye. And you know, I can be outgoing in other words, and comfortable in a group or in conversation. But you don’t find yourself desiring, what? Yeah, most of the time I find myself desiring to be alone. And like be doing something where I kind of get lost in thought or I listen to something, or I just, so, for me, I have to make an effort to be like, oh, there’s value in this. So, there’s not a natural tendency to be like, I don’t sit around and think, oh, I miss filling the blank, and I need to spend some time with him. Like, it just doesn’t, that’s not how I think about it. I think more about an activity, like, I would love to do this and that person would be great to do that with. Yeah. That’s one thing. And then I think another thing is that, I mean, I think it’s important to give yourself grace in this area because- Me or anybody? Anybody. Okay. And you included. Because I think there’s truth to what you just said, which is like, can I be more of whatever it is, be more available, be more vulnerable, be more expressive. And I do think that there’s, yes, because I’m not just trying to make an excuse of like, well, everyone’s different and everyone expresses things differently, but one of the things that I have found is because I’m not super expressive when it comes to these things, but because that’s my base level sort of way of being, when I make a decision to be expressive or to say something, it carries a lot of weight. And so, for me, I find myself thinking like, okay, well, I am this way for some reason. I’m continuing to try to get more in touch with myself through therapy. I want to be more available to people and I’m continuing to work on that. In the meantime, one of the benefits of that is that these things carry kind of a lot of weight, given the nature of my personality. It’s like there’s a weakness that can become a strength at times. Whereas you might have somebody who’s sharing all the time, and there’s a benefit and a strength in that because you can feel super supported by them all the time. But it’s almost like cursing, you know, I’ve tried to explain this to my kids if I feel like I hear you cursing too much. And it’s not that I think there’s a problem with cursing, I think that cursing is a very handy linguistic tool for emphasis, and I think you wanna keep it special so you can use it at the right fucking moment. That wasn’t it. To make a point. So anyway, I’m just saying that that’s one of the ways that I give myself some grace in this because I think that there are people that this would come more naturally to, and it does come more naturally to them. And so I think that there’s sort of like a, there’s a framework or there’s a patchwork of people, and it’s like, well, this person I experienced in this way, and I like that. I’m not saying this is an excuse to stay closed off. I’m just saying this is a way of giving yourself grace as you grow. But I’m talking about something a little different. Okay. I’m not talking about conjuring up feelings you don’t have, I’m talking about expressing feelings that you do have. And I’m not talking about you, I’m talking about me, I’m talking in general that if I notice that I miss somebody, I haven’t seen so-and-so in a while. Yeah. I wanna see him. And then what I haven’t done is said that. Haven’t said, “You know what? I miss you.” Like, that phrase is very vulnerable and it almost feels like it carries, you know, it’s putting yourself out there, one of the things that, so, but I, that’s what I’m trying to do more of is I’ve actually been in a phase, you talk about like introversion, extroversion coming out of the pandemic, that’s what I thought it was related to, and maybe it still is, but cultivating some friendships. Like, I’ve met a handful, a smattering of new people over the past couple of years. And some of ’em know each other, some of ’em don’t. And I’ve prioritized like cultivating those relationships, being the one to initiate and say, “Hey, let’s get together. Let’s hang out. It’s been a while, let’s catch up.” You know? And some of those people are like, they’re just totally responsive and maybe you would fall more into that camp in the way that you described like, I’m friend with this guy who’s more, I think he’s more introverted, like, I’m still getting to know him, but like, every time I initiate, he’s always game. And he’s always like, “Here’s a couple of dates, let’s make this happen.” And then even to the point where it’s like, I was like, “I could do Thursday or Friday.” And he’s like, “I’ll keep both of ’em open.” It’s like, okay, this guy never initiates with me, but he’s always responsive. So, that tells me that he values our friendship, especially when he says, “I’m gonna keep two days open so that we can make sure this happens.” Like, to me, those are things that I noticed that was like, oh, he’s reciprocating in his own way. And with another new friend that I made, he’s the guy who’s more like, I miss your energy. Like, he’s the one, we initiate about the same, but he puts his emotions out there and he’s more vulnerable. And that encourages me to do that too. And that there’s, there’s some reward there. You know, that’s like, okay, I know where we stand and it’s not just, we’re not speaking in code about, well, is is this really just about golfing? You know? Because when I get together with people, I do want to connect. Like, I like connecting with a person. I like getting to know them. It’s not, you know? With both of those relationships, it started out with we we’re both interested in the same thing. A lot of times it’s music, so it’s like, let’s get together and listen to music, you know? That actually is a big factor in both of those friendships because it’s another thing that I’ve really identified a passion, and like putting those two things together. I love connecting with making friends, deepening friendships, and I love music. And if I can find people that that’s really the beginning of our relationship, then that’s a good one-two punch. But then, yeah, I’ve talked about Nick, my mountain biking friend. It’s like whenever I’m mountain biking, it is an occasion for us to talk about other things. But like, sometimes there might be a camping trip occasionally, or an off-roading trip in the past, but like, it is pretty much relegated to that. But then within that, you pick those moments where it’s like, oh, we’re connecting interpersonally if not emotionally, I’m sharing some things and then seeing, hey, does he wanna reciprocate? Where does this go? And so, it’s rewarding. What’s my point? What do you hear me saying? Well, you’re kind of just describing your experience. The part about not conjuring feelings, but expressing the feelings that you have, I think is where I’m at in terms of taking a risk. And I’m seeing the rewards of that, that like, oh, even texting somebody feels like a risk sometimes, it’s like, “Hey, do you wanna hang out this weekend?” You know? Yeah, I think, yeah. And you putting yourself out there. It’s a hard thing to do for me, but I’m experiencing the rewards of it and it kind of helps me. I mean, I think that there’s two stages. There’s the having the initiative, communicating that you want to, well, you’re kind of talking about, it’s not nuance. There’s a difference in like saying, “I want to do this thing with you,” or saying, “I miss you.” Right. There’s a difference in those two things. Right. And that, that’s the way that you wanna play it. I think that’s healthy and good. I don’t necessarily think that the guy who says, I would like to play golf with you, who actually kind of means I wanna hang out with you. I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with that necessarily. It’s like, well, if you wanna hang with somebody, you have to tell them that, you can’t tell them that you just wanna play golf. No, no, no. You’re not saying that. And I’m just clarifying that you’re not saying that. For me, once I am with someone, I’m an open book, I don’t withhold things, I’m not like cold. I’ll talk about anything with anyone. And I’ll get as personal and as vulnerable, not as vulnerable and as quickly as my wife. But she is an exception to the rule of how quickly you will know her life story. But I’m pretty close behind her in my willingness to kind of share and be intimate with somebody. Even people that I just meet at a party, but also people in the context of friendships where I struggle is taking the initiative to set up the situation where that will happen. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So, for me, it’s like, sometimes, Jessie even might say that, she’d be like, “Why don’t you call so-and-so?” You know? Like, “Why don’t you just call him? Why don’t you see what he’s up to?” Or whatever. If I’m like, don’t have anything going on or whatever. And then, my tendency will be like, well, that would be fun, but it would kind of also just be fun to like watch some show that you don’t wanna watch with me. You know? And so, I’m not, yeah. The extrovert energy. I think that that could be overdone. For me, I have to make a decision to be like, okay, I need to take the initiative here because once I’m in that situation, like if I’m playing golf with somebody, You’re there for it. It’s like, yeah, I’m like, I’m playing, but I’m also like, Hey, like let’s talk about something else. And I get frustrated when I go into social situations often with other guys, and it becomes very clear that they only are interested in the game that we’re playing. Like sometimes you might play poker with somebody or the group of guys, and it’s like, no time for talk, man. This is about strategy and it’s kinda like, oh, this is gonna be a little bit boring for the next three hours. Yeah, or there’s no self-disclosure, ever. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like. Yeah, so I’m not into that. I just need to take the initiative for it to like spend the time. And some people take longer, right? I think when it comes to us, one of the things, you know, as we’ve invested in our friendship over the past year, and still, like, had some really good conversations. One of the things that I took from that, and this kind of plays into, I think that the next study that you wanna bring up about conflict or whatever it is, I realized that we both, we value our shared experiences and they build into our friendship. But I’m not gonna hold it against you if I’m the one that initiates more often than you do because I know that you will be responsive. That you’re up for it, I don’t read into it. ‘Cause, well, if Rhett really cared about me, he would initiate, he would come up with a thing, he’d invite me to do the thing because of what you’ve already talked about, and I know that about you. For me, it’s like, well, if I have this felt need to, for us to hang out, then I should initiate that. And then, the ball’s in your court, how you’re gonna respond. And then, you’ve got a very good track record of being very up for, you know, like, I pretty much know they’re gonna be like, absolutely. And now I’m applying that to other people that I don’t know as well, that’s like, I’m not gonna read into the fact that he never asked to hang out with me because he is always up for it when I do initiate. And so, I don’t think I ever had a chip on my shoulder that, like, I think, well, I think there was a time when I was tempted to have a chip on my shoulder that like, you weren’t coming up with the idea for us to just hang out as friends or something. And I think part of my growth is the insight that like, I don’t think that I shouldn’t be taking that personally, you know? That didn’t reflect your feelings, the feelings that you had or didn’t have for me because you were always responsive if I were to initiate that. Well, and I think that there’s another aspect of our friendship, and I, as you well know, am sort of constantly overwhelmed with all the things that I think that we should be doing- Yeah. Professionally, right? Right. And in a sort of way, I talked about this on the solo episode and in a somewhat potentially pathological fashion, I’m constantly thinking about work, and I never stop thinking about, I mean, if something is happening to me in life, I’m taking a note, I’m coming up with an idea, like it is a constant stream. Waking up in the middle of the night, having a dream, waking up. Like, it’s always relates back to my professional life and how this can be translated into something that we could do. Yeah. And put in front of an audience. It’s just the way I’ve always been. And so, because we have the things that we really want to do, which is to create, and then, we have the things that we have to do, which is all the logistical things involved with running a business like this, that I think we’re pretty good at it, but I also think that it’s not the thing that we want to do. Like, I was never interested in being a boss. Never something that I was like, “I wanna wake up, I wanna be a boss of over 100 people one day.” Like, not a childhood dream. No. I wanted to be a boss in like the 2010 lingo, you know, that kind of boss. The W. Okay. But I just wanted to make things. And so when I think about, I sort of, I look at the time that we have together in every moment that we have together, I’m just thinking like, what can we do? What can we make? How can we fight for this time that we have to do all the things that I think we still should do before we die, right? We’re old, we gotta keep doing things. And it’s not that I’m like, I don’t have time for surfing or skiing or fishing, which we never have done. Let’s go fishing. But very quickly, as you know, if you go surfing with me, well, I’m still gonna talk to you about the things that, and to be clear, I hope you don’t, I ask you lots of questions about your life and your kids, and I’m not not interested in having a personal conversation about things, but because I feel like I’ve got this box full of ambitions that’s constantly overflowing, it’s just like, it’s gotta fit in our relationship, in our time that we have to talk to each other, which is in between all the stuff that we have to do. That I think that sometimes in the very quick shuffling that’s happening in my brain about what’s the most important thing right now? Is it to connect? Or is it to accomplish? I’ll too quickly move to accomplish. Yeah. And so it’s more like, you know, I wouldn’t do it because I value my relationship with my wife and my family, but if my wife and family didn’t exist or were robots that had no feelings, then I would be like, “Hey, man, let’s work on Saturday and Sunday too.” I know you would. I’m just telling you that’s what I would do. Because it’s fun, it’s fun to me. Yeah. You know what I’m saying? I’m doing the activity that brings me the most joy. Surfing brings me a lot of joy, but in the ranking of activities, creating is more fun than surfing. And so it’s like, that’s my hobby, that’s what I wanna do. That’s why I got a side project that’s just creating something. It’s just because that’s what I wanna do, Right. And I wanna do it with you. So I think that that’s one of the dynamics that ends up- Don’t take that outta context. That’s one of the dynamics that manifests itself in our friendship. Right. But I’m still gonna say, “All right, let’s do something and we can’t talk about work.” Yeah, yeah. And I appreciate that. We can’t do work. I think it’s important. Yeah. Yeah, so, what was the final study? Well, there’s multiple. What’s the conflict point? A study called “Gender Differences in Social Focus Among Friends.” In 2009. In the International Journal of Behavioral Development, found that women take conflicts more personally while men may be more likely to overlook them. I gotta say, I mean, the female relationships that I observe the most are like, Christie, and her friends. Like, you know, hearing their conversation, Christie side of the conversation, all that type of stuff. You know, it’s like, I don’t want to throw her under the bus, but like, the dynamics at play in all of those relationships are so complicated compared to what I feel like when I relate to my guy friends. Well, I feel like I’m playing into the trope here, I don’t have it written right here, but it was in the same study or another one in around conflict that said that women are more likely to end a relationship over a conflict than a men. Than a men. So, interesting that there’s more emotional disclosure and more intimacy. So the relationships are deeper, which just, I think, ultimately, maybe one thing about that is it increases the stakes. So if men have a shallower connection that’s based on golf. Right. Well, you’re gonna get into a fight over like somebody cheating. Like, you know what I’m saying? So, maybe that’s why this tends to be a pattern. Like, I’ve never ended a friendship. Well, you know I have. Ever! I’ve never ended a friendship. Ironically the guy who said, “I miss you.” I then ended the friendship. I mean, I had one of my friends in high school screwed my girlfriend, and I wasn’t even screwing her because I didn’t believe in premarital sex. I broke up with her. And I’m not proud of this, but like, he was still my friend. And it was like, probably wrong. But I was kind of like, “Dude, you know?” Yeah, yeah. Jenna, can you be the judge on this one? Or not. Whatever you wanna say. I’m not gonna be a judge on that one. I’m not proud of it. I mean, maybe I should have been an asshole to him, but. I’d say it, it all depends, did you treat her the same? Were you an asshole to her? I wasn’t an asshole to her. I was just like, “I think that this means that we’re breaking up.” I love to act like I’m really mad for videos on the internet and people think that I’m being real, but like, I actually have a really difficult time getting mad at people. I think you were hurt, but I don’t think you were mad. I never like gonna go in and like yell at somebody. I was just like, we’re breaking up or whatever. And then like, I saw him the next day and we both kind of like, “Haa!” It was like, I just couldn’t bring myself to hate the guy. ‘Cause, I was like, well, don’t be broken up. I don’t wanna pick this scenario apart. What I was asking Jenna about was this general idea that and like, well, I’ll speak for myself. I feel like if some, you know, it’s like I can slot people in at different categories of friendship. Like, okay, you know what? The more that I get to know this guy, the more that like now he’s kicking back out. He’s not gonna be an inner-circle guy. He’s gonna be kicked back out a little bit. And if there’s a level of incompatibility or we get our wires crossed, I just don’t find myself in drama. I’m just gonna put it that way. It’s like, okay, this guy, we’re not, you know, I won’t talk to him as often, or I’ll see him as this type of friend, not this type of friend. And I’m not gonna share that information with him anymore. But I just learned my lesson. You know, it’s like a categorization, a compartmentalization of levels of friendship. And I feel like it’s ’cause the bar is so low for guy friendships, and that the bar is higher in general for female friendships. Am I off base in your opinion? I don’t think you’re off base. I think it’s a larger cultural discussion of women being told they cannot be confrontational. So, then, when confrontation does happen, it can really end things. Whereas men can have little confrontations and those are fine. But like, I don’t like confrontation either. But I have ended friendships because things went to a personal level. And it’s how we culturally have established those relationships. Like, women already have this strong bonded emotional thing behind it. Which, I mean, it’s cultural, but then, also, it can be a bit hormonal as well of like, we have formed those. And I think it’s hard to say that it’s male or female because I don’t get super emotional. Like, I know that female friends of mine take things to heart a lot different than I do. And because I understand that I phrase things different, and I speak to them different, and I think that’s just a level of growth and therapy for me. Instead of like, when I was younger, oh, we don’t vibe on this, I don’t like this person, we’re not gonna be friends. Yeah. Period. I think I might have an analogy that is helpful because I agree with you that, again, we’re talking in generalities. And, you know, a lot of people’s opinion, which I know is in at least it’s to some degree true. Is that a lot of these generalities exist because of cultural norms and things that have been put onto people. And so if there is a situation in which, like if you’re in a pool and men’s relationships more often are in the shallow end of the pool, and women’s relationships are more often in the deep end of the pool, well, you’re more likely to drown in the deep end of the pool, right? If that’s where you’re swimming, the stakes are higher and it could result in a lost, somebody sinks to the bottom, right? And there’s consequences to getting into a conflict in the deep end of the pool, right? That don’t exist in the kiddie pool. And mistakes for women in conflict, there’s a lot more pressure on women for those conflicts that happen than for men. Like, if women have this conflict happen, we’re dramatic, we’re too aggressive. It labels us as this type of person that then no one wants to work with or be around. Whereas men can have those same conflicts. And he’s just standing up for himself or whatever, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right. And that totally makes sense. That’s helpful. I also think for guys it’s just, you know, it’s in the shallow pool analogy. Just like, oh, well, this doesn’t matter that much, you know? Like the level of connection is just less, so I’ll compartmentalize him or I’ll just, you know, that’s the end of that friendship and I didn’t even realize it. Right, right. So, if you’ve got a guy that you play golf with and he gets tendonitis, and then it’s just like, oh, I hadn’t talked to Chuck in four years. Right. His elbow’s messed up. You know what I’m saying? And it’s like, ’cause it was so based on something. Yeah, apparently, he wasn’t a true friend. He was just a golf buddy. There’s a couple of sort of things that you may not have anticipated that I wanted to make sure that we talked about- Okay. Before we close this discussion. which I hope has been helpful. I don’t know if it’s been helpful, but it’s just. I mean, again, it’s just like, I know we’re kind of, It’s just kinda been something. We’re going to each side of this spectrum and like living there. And I know that that can be irritating to some people. But hopefully, because as Jenna said that like, as she has demonstrated already that like, well, in this situation I would actually behave more like what your studies show how a man would react again. ‘Cause, it’s like these general characteristics don’t apply to individual people, they apply to groups. So give us some more generalizations. So, I’ll give you some more general stuff. Virtual friendship, according to a 2015 Pew Research Center report, men are more likely than women to consider online contacts as friends. So, like, somebody that is, and this is maybe generational too, because like, I don’t have, in fact, someone asked me recently, and you were there, they were talking about. It was me. I was the one who asked you. Oh, well, we were in a party. I didn’t realize you were the one who started that discussion. I think I was. Do you have people that you’re just friends with online? Like is there somebody that you- A social network friend. And then your wife was like, yeah, I have a thread, an Instagram thread where it’s like a text thread, but it’s just on Instagram and I’d never met these people. And I was like, “Oh, that’s something that can happen.” Yeah. It was like, I don’t have anybody. Now, there might be some people that I’ve, like, there’s a few people that are like public figures that we’ve connected via social media, like DMs. But it’s not a friendship, it’s more just like, yes, we’ve sent three messages over the past four years about specific things, but it’s not a friendship that’s maintained online. And I definitely don’t see them as a friend. I see them as a friendly acquaintance. Yeah, I don’t relate to this one. It’s so weird the way that we experienced social media as it was happening that it was like- It’s tough to apply this. As content creators, it kind of short circuited actually using it as like for a personal connection. We never really saw it that way as it was developing. And then, by the time everybody caught up, we were just these people who were just pumping out content through these pipelines. Yeah. So, we never utilized it that way. Yeah, we made 5,000 Facebook friends for the promotional quality of it. Yes. And then still have most of them, but don’t go on Facebook. No. A study published in PLOS ONE, I guess, that’s plus one with an O, 2014, “Sex Differences in Social Focus Across the Life Cycle in Humans.” Exciting stuff. Suggest that men tend to have larger but less intimate social networks compared to women. So. More acquaintances. If you started listing people that you would call your friends, and it’s like, I don’t know what, you know, you would constitute a friend, but apparently it would include online friends. On average a man would have more, but it’d be less intimate, but it would be this larger network. I thought that was an interesting tidbit. I don’t think it’s necessarily a thing that I relate to personally. Yeah, I just don’t have capacity for like, that’s why I broke up with that guy who said he missed me because you know, I went through the whole thing when it happened on this show, but I didn’t feel like I had the capacity to give him what I felt like I wanted to give to be an actual friend. And it was like- Is that your one time of actually breaking up with a friend. Yeah, I learned my lesson. And I got, so, I don’t do that anymore. I’ve had friendships end, but it was because of complex social dynamics amongst groups, and couples, and stuff like that. Yeah. But never, I haven’t had a situation where there was a guy that I was a friend with, and then something that he did to me or to someone else, it was like, now, I have to end the friendship. That’s never happened to me. I don’t think. And again, as I suggested it would take a whole lot based on what happened in high school. I’m not saying it’s a healthy thing. I mean, maybe I should have ended more friendships, but it just hasn’t crossed my mind. And lastly, and this is something we can relate to because we are both aging. Aged. A study published in the “Journal Personal Relationships” in 2017 said or found that, men may have fewer friends as they grow older due to reliance on their partners for emotional support. I actually think that, so, you’ve already described how you are like personally bucking this trend. You seem to be making an effort there. Yeah. It’s not something that I have been doing. I have a fair amount of friends. I don’t have too many friends that I talk to on a regular basis that were like constantly doing stuff with each other. Mostly because I feel connected enough, right? But I do see how this like, let’s just say that me and you had a horrible breakup, went out separate ways, something that is constantly being theorized is about to happen just so you know. Not only are we gay but we’re also constantly about to break up. Right. Neither’s been true ever. But I can totally see because I have a very, and I think I speak for both of us. I have a very deep emotional bond to my wife. Like, you know, we share everything together, we’re not isolated. You feel like that’s enough? We haven’t grown apart. As we’ve gotten older we’ve grown together, we’re better friends now than we were when we were youngsters. I get a lot out of our friendship and our time together. We like spending time together. We like doing things together. Like, we like traveling with one another. And so I could see how this would be the case where I would just kind of be like, ah, I don’t, you know, as long as I got her I’m all right. I like being by myself and apparently the studies, you know, studies show that this is actually a pattern. It probably, I mean, I’m sure this goes both ways as you get older, like as you’re in a couple of any description, and you kind of just are like, I got this person and it’s hard to find time and to conjure up the effort to connect. Right. And then that person dies. Okay. And then, you’re just old and alone. Like that is a kind of a scary situation. I’m hedging my bets. I’m feeling pretty good, you know, on that front. Yeah. I have a number of things. You’re sowing some good seeds here. I’m not talking about Christie dying, I’m talking about you dying, but. Oh. Yeah. I don’t have a replacement for you, but I think the amalgamation of a bunch of other friends will just keep me above ground. Well, if you fast forward into the distant future, you know, I’m dead early ’cause I’m tall, whatever. Yeah, right. It’s just you and Christie. She’s most likely gonna outlive you ’cause women on average live longer than men. But let’s just say that there’s an accident. Okay, great. And she’s old. I mean, you’re both in your 80s, it’s kind of like, yeah, she’s in an accident. It’s kinda like, well, it’s gonna happen one way or another. And so you’re 85 and you’re single. And so it put you in that scenario. First of all, 85, single, you gonna try to get with somebody. It’s just sexually. Let’s just talk about that before we talk about friends. That’s a whole other podcast. Like if you’re 85 and you’re finally single, you gonna go on like a dating website, what are you gonna do? Yeah, sure. You think you’ll have no desire to wet your willy at that point. It’s not gonna be about desire. I just hope it’s gonna be about ability and I hope that. There’s drugs for that, man. Right. Well, there you go. Okay, then, yes. So, yes. So you’re gonna get laid at 85. That’s the first few weeks is you just getting laid as much as possible. I mean, I’m not gonna deny it. But then, then comes friendship. Okay, so my question for you as it relates to that is like, what would you do? I have friends, right? I’m working on it now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I think. It’s happening for me. At that point, I would join a group of some kind. Yeah. That was doing something like, we’re planting trees, you know, and I feel like. Let’s get together and read the paper. In the context of a group like that, that I would definitely do ’cause I’d have the time, you know, I think I could generate a lot of friends really quickly. You can catch up. It’s fine. I guess, ultimately, I was saying I’m not worried about it. Yeah, don’t worry about it. I can make fast friends when I want to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don’t worry about it. Just be my friend. I’ll be your friend whenever you wanna do it. And then, I’ll be friends with other people when you don’t. and then, everybody’s happy. I think this is working, right? Yeah, yeah. I think it is working. I think it is working. Yeah. I got plans Friday night. I think I got plans Saturday night. What does your wife say about this? I try to make plans with her first and then when she taps out because it’s too many plans, then I just fill everything else in. That’s the way I do it. Yeah. Yeah, and I don’t make plans. I’ve started making more plans, that’s my thing. I’d like to make more activity plans. You feel like this is a good ending point. I mean, this is good as any. Okay. Wanna bring you back to our Rhett & Link channel for my recommendation. Our song “You are Here” is streaming everywhere. So, enjoy that song. It makes more sense when you’ve watched the video, but then it’s, you know, since it was 1984, I created a playlist that was inspiration for the production of that track. So if you want to enjoy that, you can go to my Spotify account, which the best way to tell you to get to my Spotify playlist is to go to my Instagram profile, and then click on my Spotify link. You can’t just search Link Neil on Spotify. I don’t know. Yes, you can. The playlist is called “You are Here Inspo.” It’s the inspiration for the “You are Here” track. And if you only wanna listen to one song. Is that you? Yep, that’s me. Yeah. You can just search Link Neil. I just put Link Neil. In Spotify. “Automatic” by the Pointer Sisters. I was so obsessed with that song when we were making “You are Here” so you can check that out. See how these 31 minutes worth of tracks made their way into “You are Here.” There you go. That’s my wreck. Thanks for being my friend, Rhett. I just realized that my. Thanks for being my friend, Rhett. No, thanks for being my friend. I really miss you. I miss you too, but I have- And you know what? I love you. I love you too, man. Look at that. Did you see that? But I do have something to share. Okay, yeah. And that is the, I didn’t realize that my playlist for Locke’s graduation party last year was public. Yeah, you can make it private or you can leave it. Yeah, I don’t really use this. Maybe I should make that not public. Maybe I should make my whole profile not public. If you want to let us know what you think, use #EarBiscuits, and give us a call, leave us a voicemail with your thoughts, 1-888. EarPod1. It’s a pretty good playlist. I’ll leave it up. So it’s just seven songs. Okay. [Podcast Supporter] Hey, guys, I just listened to the “Commencement Speech” episode and when Link said that spreadsheets were sexy, I lost it. I graduated about six months ago with my accounting degree and spreadsheets are sexy. Thank you so much, bye. To watch more “Ear Biscuits,” click on the playlist on the right. To watch the previous episode of “Ear Biscuits,” click on the playlist to the left. And don’t forget to click on the circular icon to subscribe. If you prefer to listen to this podcast, it’s available on all your favorite podcast platforms. Thanks for being your mythical best.