Gillian Anderson Eats Her Last Meal

Channel: Mythical Kitchen

YouTube Video ID: O9KDedvwuTM

Transcript

I'm Jillian Anderson and this
is my last
meal. [bell]
Every person has exactly two things in
common. We all got to eat and we're all
going to die. Today's guest is an
award-winning actor, author, and
functional beverage entrepreneur who you
might recognize from the XFiles and Sex
Education. Her newest movie, Teenage Sex
and Death at Camp Miasma, is out now.
and her newest book, MOA, is out
wherever you get your books on September
15th. But before she was the busiest
woman in show business, she was the
busiest server on St. Mark's Place in
the East Village. Jillian Anderson,
welcome to the show. [music]
>> Thank you.
>> Anytime.
>> I was I was I was
>> Do you remember a lot about the
restaurant you worked in on St. Mark's
Place?
>> Oh, yeah. Well, it was Dojo. Do you know
Dojo?
>> I know Dojo. We did make you a little
bit of a gift. Does this ring a bill?
>> Is that for real? Is that like Can I
taste it?
>> Oh, please taste it. I'm curious since
we're going down memory lane.
>> I wanted to see if this would ring a
bell. We tried to get as close as we
could. We read a bunch of different
recipes.
>> But this is Dojo's famous carrot ginger
dressing.
>> Did we get close?
>> It is pretty. It's very garlicky. Jesus
Christ.
>> Can I tell you what happened is we all
tasted it and as chefs we were like, I
feel like we should add some more oil,
some more sugar, some more acid. And
then we said, well, it was a health food
restaurant cuz it really was.
>> Well, it wasn't. They [laughter] had
like fried sushi. They like a deep fried
sushi roll. There was an oversized skirt
that I wore and I would roll it up and I
had this low slung leather belt and
these big like combat boots and I can't
remember what my black tops were. I
could do a lot of tables and I had a lot
of attitude [laughter] and and then
shortly thereafter I went to go work at
a fancy restaurant and I sucked. I was
so awful. I couldn't I couldn't cater to
taking care of people. [laughter]
I feel like people came into dojo.
>> Yeah. Expecting the attitude that I had,
which was just like, you know, you got
your food and it was there, but I didn't
talk very much and I just slapped stuff
down. And uh I met somebody actually
many years later who who remembered me
uh working there. I used to go in there
all the time, which was kind of cool.
But I worked there for a while.
>> Incredible. Would you say that food has
played a big role in your life?
>> No,
>> not at all.
>> I'm joking. Uh [laughter] I mean,
>> some people answer that earnestly. Yeah.
>> Oh, yeah. No, I mostly just cook what
I'm cooking for my kids and it's pretty
much the same stuff all the time and
it's relatively healthy and it's the
stuff that they like, but it's not
>> it's not cocoa van and it's not
[laughter]
tuna casserole which are the you know
the but it's you know it's you know it's
like grilled salmon and kale on the side
and and managed sweet potatoes. I think
what I love about food though is I think
that type of food and something as
simple as a carrot ginger salad dressing
tells as much of a story as something
like cocoa van. You know what I mean?
>> Yeah. Yeah. But I will make cocoa van if
I have people over.
>> That's like one of the things that I
whip out is that
>> you whip out the what?
>> The cocoa van.
>> Oan.
>> So I set myself up for that. [laughter]
Yeah.
>> Have you thought about your last meal
before? I've been asked in like a table
game
>> and nobody's ever then made it for me.
You know what I mean? It's just been a
conversation.
>> Yeah. Do you think you learned anything
about yourself when you were picking the
dishes?
>> Oh, I don't think that I realized
like we didn't we had family recipes,
but they weren't really like family
recipes. They were just they, you know,
my grandmother had a cookbook and uh at
some point my mom took photographs of
the individual pages, but it was like
the recipe for spaghetti bolognese and
the, you know, quite simple. It wasn't
it wasn't more detailed than that. And I
mean, one of the reasons why I chose a
couple of the things like the tuna
casserole and the raisin pie is cuz I
don't think I've had those since I was a
teenager. And um and I really wanted to
try them again. And a couple of the
things on my list are literally might
like if there is
uh fried zucchini flowers on the menu
and I think it's in a place that I think
they're going to do a good I will most
definitely order it cuz it can be really
really extraordinary.
>> I'm so excited to see what memories we
drag up today.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh how how often do you think about
death in general? every day. I would say
I think I feel like you go through or at
least I went through the years where you
think, "Oh, I could walk in front of
that train right now." You know,
>> to thinking, "No, I actually don't want
to walk in front of a train anymore.
>> I like my life." [music] And I'm I I
want to still be a mother to my kids.
And and then you have a few moments
where you maybe come close to or you
feel fallible in some way [music] that
is new. And then for that period of time
you start thinking about it a bit more
and realize that you know you're not one
of those people who's not going to die.
Um, and then as you get older, it just
it gets closer and closer and people
that you have known and loved um, uh,
start to say goodbye and it all [music]
gets a lot a lot more real.
>> Yeah. Continuing the cycles that all
those before us have gone through. So,
yeah. Well, you ready to eat?
>> Yeah.
>> I wanted to end on like a positive note
and I was like, I [laughter] got
nothing. Life is kind of that's this is
all we get. [bell]
>> Jillian, for the first course of your
final meal, we have the fried zucchini
blossoms. We have
>> the ravioli. And then we have
>> the G-spot. This is your drink. Tell us
where we can find G-spot.
>> Well, I think in the States, the only
place that you can get it is at popup
store in New York.
>> You can order it online. Mostly is sold
through retailers in the UK right now,
but we're expanding. Hopefully at some
point this year we're expanding more
into the states.
>> I feel like I should take notes. That's
where I can find it. I've been searching
>> for so many years.
>> Yeah,
>> I thought it was a myth at some point.
>> And there's a there's a in Brooklyn, I
think it is, there's a popup store um
that has that that carries it. And why
[laughter] laughing was
>> Why am I laughing? Jillian, you started
a drink called G-spot. How could you not
laugh?
>> Sorry. I suddenly understood what you
were were trying to infer. It took me
It's I'm so sorry.
You know, sometimes you take risks, you
know, and they don't pay off.
>> Yes, it does exist and it is findable.
>> Good.
>> I promise.
>> That's good to [snorts] know.
>> Yeah. As you can see behind you, we've
also wrapped Awaken. This is what Awaken
normally looks like. And it's this color
because [music] the liquid itself is
purple. It's kind of a bluey purple
because of butterfly pee, which is in
it, which has a bit of a um a tint to
it. And um uh but we wrapped it uh for
the film. And so you've got collector's
items there.
>> Cheers.
>> Cheers.
>> What are we cheersing to? I feel like
you made very intense eye contact and I
got nervous.
>> Oh, what are we cheersing to? Um, we're
cheersing to [music]
>> uh further investment for G-spot. Yay.
>> Further investment for G-spot. That's
what I always cheers to. In fact,
>> I I love herbs in a [music] sweet drink.
That's the thing that like lifts it out
of just being a normal sweet beverage.
It's very botanical. It's quite complex.
It's very mature. [music]
>> And this was uh roughly born out of a
Coca-Cola addiction.
>> Yes.
>> The less bad type of Coke addiction.
>> No, the more bad
>> the more bad type of coke.
>> So, real coke.
>> Real coke.
>> Uh five a day.
>> That's incredible.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, an attempt to rid myself
of that but still create something. So,
I couldn't find anything that would that
would steer me away from it or get me
off of the the Coca-Cola.
um a family member approached me um and
said that that he thought actually that
I should do an apple juice because I
also drink a lot of apple juice and then
my daughter talked to me about
adaptogens and neutropics which I didn't
really know much about functional
ingredients and it just kind of started
there. of the three of us. She designed
the cans and we met with different uh
alchemists and started driving around to
labs and ended up, you know, creating
the flavors um in Bournemouth in the UK.
And then I started with three SKUs um
and then while I was doing sex
education, I uh did that one which is an
has aphrodesiac properties.
>> Wow. and tried to sneak it onto set so
that we could um so that we you know we
we would have it in scenes. But anyway,
Netflix then um did a little collab with
us and it and it used to say Netflix on
the top of Sex Education.
>> Oh, no way. And now you have the collab
with uh Sex and Death Camp as
>> Man. I mean, you really are the busiest
woman in show business. You really do.
Dig dig in though. One second. Why? Why
the ravioli?
>> This is actually one of my daughter's
favorite meals.
M.
>> So damn good.
>> So good.
>> Mhm.
>> Mhm. There was one Christmas
when we we were all in Sri Lanka and she
was about to go to Southeast Asia for 3
months by herself [music] and I was
saying goodbye to her. My two sons and
their dad had already gone back to the
UK and we had a night in this really
great hotel that's near the airport. um
in Sri Lanka and [music] she was all she
could talk about over dinner with no
food. she was too nervous to eat was how
she was going to repack and if she moved
this thing over to and I swear to God 45
minutes of her talking about and I
didn't realize the degree to which
it was just nerves and she also needed
to talk to her dad um that night and
[music] and hadn't um informed him that
she actually wasn't meeting up with
friends that she was meant to and and
was kind of going off into the abyss on
her own And so, um, and on the menu they
had, they literally had her four
favorite things, and she was too [music]
nervous to even think about eating them.
And one of them was, um, either pumpkin
or sweet potato ravioli was sage and
brown butter.
>> There's also a hyper [music] specific
story to draw from for your own last
meal.
>> Yes.
I think it's really funny how food for
so many people is it's it's comfort and
love, but food also takes on so many
different meanings. Fact that she was
literally like too nervous to eat the
things that she loved because of other
factors
>> in her life. Um there's a lot of themes
in both your book more and even going
back to want uh as well as teenage sex
and death and can't masma of this idea
of like desire and food and consumption
and withholding.
>> Yeah. But I'm curious if you see the
larger metaphor in food when it comes to
all of that.
>> I didn't realize the degree to which um
food and particularly sugar, sweets,
snacks
um and the the comfort of that either
with or without watching movies is
>> something in and of itself. And you
know, um, it comes up, um, a lot in in
Camp Myas asthma, um, as an escape most
definitely, but also, um, you know, that
kind of that that comfort when you're
scared, when you're uncomfortable, when
you're because when you're watching, you
know, horror films, you are doing
something that is that has a feeling of
being dangerous in and of itself or that
um, you're enjoying something that you
really shouldn't be enjoying. enjoying
that. There's something almost naughty
about it. And
>> yeah, you're like indulging in a bad
emotion in fear.
>> Yes. [music] Yeah. And so the addition
of the of sugar to that and food in
general and gorging and the relationship
between,
you know, gorging and pleasure engorging
and gorging insects and, you know,
they're all part of the same
conversation.
>> Something like drinking five full fat
Coca-Cas a day. Something like an
indulgence like that might even be like
a secret shame sort of thing that you
try and kick by
>> doing a super normal thing like
launching an entire line of functional
marriages. Something super normal like
that.
>> Yeah, sure. Sweets used to be a really
big part of my childhood
>> as an escape mechanism.
>> The way that I almost see it is like
it's self-medicating before you found
drugs and alcohol. you know, you're
>> totally
>> as you get older, you kind of tend to
replace it with other substances, but
you know, when you're [music] 8 n years
old and you don't know why, but you
>> rummage through, you know, your your
pantry and you just find a bag of brown
I remember just eating brown sugar out
of the bag.
>> Wow.
>> And not understanding but being very
secretive about it. But to me, it was
like the quickest form of happiness that
I could, you know, shove into myself.
And then
>> as you get older, you know, all of those
habits just compound over time. And
>> yeah.
>> Yeah. You you wrote an incredible book.
Um, well, you compiled a lot of
anonymous sexual fantasies from women.
Um, first one called Want a couple years
ago and now the companion more. There
was one essay in there that I found
really poignant. Can I can I read?
>> Yeah.
>> Can I read it to you?
>> Can you read it to me while I eat?
>> Please. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
>> I've noticed that chefs are very popular
right now. Since I can remember, I've
always been extremely attracted to them.
When I was younger, I used to watch
cooking competitions and food shows on
TV, but never really paid much attention
to the recipes. Rather, I was observing
the chef's hands touching the raw meat
or kneading the dough, hypnotized by the
movement. My imagination started to
expand as my own relationship with food
worsened. You see, I'm diagnosed
anorexic, and to cure my malady, in my
mind, I would go out, look for a chef,
take him home, throw him on my sofa by
the kitchen, and gently smear honey all
over his body. And that would be the way
to hurt his own incredibly healthy love
affair with food, staining him and his
lover with my madness [music] just to
lick it off of him afterwards.
>> I mean,
>> hot damn. Hot damn.
>> Hot damn. But I mean the the the depth
of that, right? It's not the act, it's
the the metaphor behind it.
>> Yeah. And also the the pleasure and the
pain obviously of that and
>> the disgust, the shame, but the
indulgence and the safety.
>> Yes. Yeah. And also that it's all in the
imagination and so you know you can take
it to whatever extremes that you that
you care to. So I mean that's the beauty
of asking women from around the world to
write in is that you know when you give
them [music] the the benefit of
anonymity the the level of truth and
encouraging them to talk about shameful
thoughts shameful aspects of their lives
shameful habits shameful you know
anything that is either illicit or um or
something that [music] they've hidden
from other people. uh you know there
will be people who completely identify
with that in some way and and so the the
joy of the journey with the book is the
degree to which people feel
uh seen
>> you know when they read these stories
and I feel like you know any aspect of
it might be something that they've
experienced themselves even if it's you
know the fact that they are anorexic or
they have you know they
>> fanticized about chefs or what you
[laughter]
There it is.
>> Uh, please dig into the squash blossoms.
Also, uh, the fact that you use the term
zucchini, I think, uh, belies the
American heritage as opposed to the
British accent that we often get to
hear. Cuz these are corettes.
>> They're corettes. Yeah.
>> Corettes.
>> Yeah.
>> It's a small coror.
>> They're stuffed with ricotta. Are they?
>> We stuffed them with ricotta and a bit
of lemon zest.
>> How do they stack up?
>> They're really good. Yeah.
>> Uh we we have one one more dish uh
because you are now responsible for one
of my single favorite food scenes
>> in any movie in in Camp Miasma. Uh you
uh say the phrase, [music]
speaking of desire, do you like dipping
sauce? And then there is uh just a
wonderful close-up macro shot of
Kentucky Fried Chicken being plunged
into dipping sauce.
>> Yes. Uh, can you tell me the deeper
meaning behind that scene [music] and
how fun was that to shoot?
>> Uh, it was a lot of fun to shoot. Our
director, Jane Shaen Brun, had a very
specific way that they wanted me to say
the line based on how they'd heard it in
their head for so long. Um, I mean, it's
foreplay
>> in a sense [music]
and but it's also there's something
grotesque about it at the same time. And
so it's, you know, and this is after all
>> a horror film. It's a It's a queer
slasher film. My character Billy, even
though my character um ends up having,
you know, falling in love with Hannah
Ein Bender's character Chris, it's
[music] not a scene about it's not a
pre-sex scene for me. I'm not trying to
seduce her. I just, you know, the only
food in, you know, that I could get a
hold of that night, I say in the film
was um Kentucky Fried Chicken and and I
ask her if she likes dipping sauce. And
we sit and she tells me about the
history of cinema [music] and
transphobia in um cinema and
particularly queer and slasher [music]
cinema while I eat fried chicken. It's
mostly me that's eating fried chicken
and creamed corn or whatever it is. And
so it's um but it becomes the foreplay
uh of our uh the intimate part of our
relationship. And there is a scene where
that I am taking pieces of chicken and
completely slathering it in dipping
sauce and uh jumping it down. Um yes,
and there are lots of close-ups. There's
a sort of like line of inquiry during
that scene where Hannah's character uh
is talking all about um depictions of
monstrosity next to queerness in cinema
and then your character comes in and
says the reason people like slasher fix
is for two reasons. It's flesh and fluid
>> and then immediate the flesh being
dunked into the fluid. I was thinking
about that line while I was at the gym
just kind of free associating while
tired
>> and I was looking around
>> and your character Billy kind of talks
about how flesh and fluid but really I
was looking at fluid covered flesh. I
was like here are scantily clad people
generally quite attractive at a gym just
wet with fluid and then I look up at the
TV.
>> There's a commercial for McDonald's new
Caesar dipping sauce.
>> Oh And there is a there is a macro
shot traveling along a long straight rod
of chicken tender as it then plunges
into an artificially thick and creamy
prop Caesar dressing
>> and it was like this you can define the
world in terms of fluid and flesh and it
was something that really stuck with me
>> throughout the thing. Was there anything
that really stuck with you from Miasma?
>> That's deep,
>> isn't it though? I mean did you did you
find that deep? Did it get you to think
about anything differently?
>> There were so many things that got me to
think differently um both while shooting
the film and also um since doing press
for it. I feel like I've only really
started to begin to fully understand and
appreciate [music] the degree to which I
identify with this film um since
>> I've actually been doing press, not
necessarily even when I was prepping or
filming it. You know, part of that is
part of what we've talked about just in
terms of, [music] you know, loneliness
as a child or feeling like an outsider
or feeling um uh that I don't belong. I
mean, I've never really wanted to
[music]
belong, but I have I definitely
identify um with the aspect that uh is
presented in the film of just being
misunderstood and having, you know, that
most teenagers do anyway, but sometimes
it goes a bit deeper and it's a bit more
um you know, grounded in in real life
stuff or or uh uh stuff that's, you
know,
>> Yeah. meant for therapy, [laughter]
not an aujo.
>> This is equal parts. We're just cheaper
than a therapist. Uh
>> but it's it is it is interesting um just
going through that process because I
find myself while talking about the film
sometimes having these huge like
flashbacks to myself at that um at those
a the ages the teenage ages, right? So
Jane the director
>> speaks about it in ter you know the the
teenage in the film is as much as
anything [music]
about the fact that post transition.
>> Mhm.
>> They um you know felt like a teenager.
It felt like like they were almost born
again and were going through their
teenage years that was full of you know
confusion and joy and rediscovery and
and growth and all of these things. And
so because there's been so much dialogue
about that, it really has started to uh
make me rethink about those years and
the degree to which I was so immersed in
a punk scene and very angry and very on
the outside of society and and so it
makes sense that I would identify
[laughter] with this movie so much.
>> Sure. I mean the thing that I love about
the the flesh and fluids versus the
academic discourse is like one is the
feelings and one is the thoughts. And I
think there's a lot of people who have
done a lot of great things are are very
good at [music] thinking the thoughts
and explaining them, but not actually
getting into their feelings. And there's
there's one moment where, you know, not
to give away the goose, but Hannah is
holding you and just kind of
>> seems like the line almost comes out of
nowhere that's just like, don't leave
me, like don't ever leave me. But it's
this kind of thing like she's getting
into everything because of this fear
[music] of something,
>> blaming her and abandoning her. All of
this is
>> sort of just metaphor to get us to
actually feel something.
>> Yeah. And you do, I think people feel
quite a lot watching this film. Even
though, you know, it's quintessentially
a slasher film and it's uh a comedy.
It's actually really really funny. Um
there are a lot of things that happen
that film that feel incredibly surreal
and esoteric and yeah at the same time
there's uh a lot of subject matter that
is more metaphorical and um almost
animated in a way that leads you to a
space of uh of I think deep feeling and
contemplation.
>> I reckon that's what art's supposed to
do.
>> Yeah. That and
>> yeah,
>> flesh in the fluids.
>> That and fried chicken.
>> That and fried chicken. [bell]
>> Jillian, for the second round of your
final meal on earth, we have [laughter]
>> your mom's tuna noodle casserole.
>> Oh my god. And cocoa at the same time.
>> And a little bit of tonic water with
Angistera bitters, but of course, we
still have
>> the G-spot. Um, have you ever seen these
two things on the table at the same
time?
>> No, I have not. Thank Thank God.
[laughter]
>> Where do you want to start? I'm I'm
completely speechless. Are those um I
call them Chris. Are those potato chips
uh crumbled on top of the uh tuna
casserole?
>> Those are indeed potato chips crumbled
on top. So, we used uh obviously the
cheapest canned tuna that money could
buy. I assume that's probably what your
mom was using. Mixed with some egg
noodles, cream of mushroom soup, cheddar
cheese, and then the crumbled potato
chips on top and then garnished with a
little bit of chives. Because we're
still chefs, we have to have some sort
of decorum here. Well, what's funny is
that we probably had this maybe once
every once a week or once every two
weeks when I was little. And
>> and this is something that I cook now,
but the irony is is it's not because I'm
suddenly fancy or I even know how to
cook. It's just I've got this cookbook
at home that is what I use if I ever
like invite people over and grandma's
recipe.
It's like it's coan
party. No, not my grandma. grandmother
and a grandmother. But every recipe in
there is really good and it's a really
good cocoa
chili con carney bolognese. It's just a
fish pie. You know your basic
>> your basic fish pies and chili con
carnis. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Exactly. And so this isn't an
indication of that except it's hilarious
that this is cuz that's what I grew up
on. And
>> it's easy to draw the evolutionary
pattern here [laughter] of you know you
can take the grand rapids out of the
gorilla but not raids. Can I can I dish
you up some please? It's a tiny tiny B.
>> I got you. I got you. Don't worry. We'll
eat the leftovers.
>> Does it bring back memories for you at
all?
>> It really does. Yeah. Nobody in my
family know to cook from scratch, but
there was something called tuna helper.
>> Of course there was. I remember tuna
[laughter] helper.
>> It was a hamburger helper, but instead
they just advised that you add a can of
tuna in it. I don't know how the recipes
differed.
>> That is so comforting. I don't know why.
>> Mhm. I mean, if you were to levy a guess
as to why it's comforting, I think you
could probably get there.
>> Well, carbohydrates, cheese, crisps, or
potato chips, and obviously my history
with it. And, you know,
>> Yeah.
>> Uh-huh.
>> I mean, this was, you know, somebody
that you love that was important in your
life who, you know, fed you as
>> either a an act of duty to not get
arrested by child protective services or
b love. You know,
>> my mom at a certain point um uh said
that she wasn't going to cook anymore.
>> She retired. She turned in her her her
pots and her pans like a gun and a
badge.
>> I'm pretty sure procedural.
>> Mhm. Cuz my dad would come home from
work and make himself a big fat sandwich
right before she was about to serve
dinner that she was about to um [music]
you know that he'd been making for the
last hour or so. I think that was
probably part of it. But
>> that's a very quintessential dad move.
>> Yeah. But you Okay, this is a sandwich.
peanut butter,
mayonnaise,
Tabasco,
and lettuce.
>> Did your dad [laughter] like did he
suffer like a like a head injury at some
point or was he from the South? Because
it could have been either one.
>> I think he lived in the South for a
while at one point. His dad was in the
Air Force and he was the oldest of nine.
[music] My grandmother had him when she
was 16.
>> Wow.
and he was born in California, but all
of his siblings were born in different
states. I think one of them might have
been born in
Venezuela as well. Um, they moved around
a lot, but that I've seen a list of how
often they moved and they literally
moved every 3 months in all the kids.
Yeah, at some point they lived in
Florida. At some point they lived um
>> I can't remember. I feel like at one
point they were in Kentucky, I think. So
yeah, maybe some of that peanut butter
and mayonnaise came Tabasco came from
that.
>> I dated a a girl whose parents came from
Louisville, Kentucky. Not to brag, he
did work for KFC corporate, her dad. But
anyways, her mom introduced me to peanut
butter, banana, and mayonnaise
sandwiches. Wondering if
>> Oh, I wonder if
from that. Yeah, I feel like I've had
one of those in my lifetime.
>> It sounds like there's a lot of people
in your family that have almost this
transient attitude. And I mean, you you
moved around. You would have been in
Puerto Rico at the time when you were a
small child. You moved to London. You
came back to to Grand Rapids. You
already talked about your daughter
traveling Southeast Asia.
>> It seems [clears throat] like there's
>> travel.
>> Do you think that is something that's
literally in the DNA? This idea of being
a kind of seeker.
>> I I have wondered about that. Um I mean,
you know, you can point to very
practical reasons why we moved when I
was little. We moved to Puerto Rico cuz
my parents were trying to save [music]
my grandparents were there. My dad's
parents were there. They were trying to
save money. My dad wanted to go to
London Film School. They [music] didn't
want to pay rent for that year and a
half and so they moved to Puerto Rico.
Then we moved to the UK. We were there
for 11 years. Um [music]
and um Michigan. He got a job. We moved
to Michigan. And my mom's still there.
>> Yeah.
>> Um my dad would be there, but they're
not [music] together anymore. He's in
California. But it's um I never thought
about the the rest of my moves have
mostly been uh for work, you know, have
been me either going to Chicago theater
school or going to New York to work or
Los Angeles
>> because you joined the very stable
profession of
>> Yes.
>> Actor. Yes.
>> Yeah. I think there's some cosmic forces
though pushing because even your dad
when you told your mom that you wanted
to go to film school she said well you
can either stay in the states and go to
California or
>> it sounds like you took the first
opportunity to leave the country which
most people probably
>> wouldn't have said that
>> no no no fair enough but I have wondered
whether that's in the gene somehow if
you [music] know because I I I do
believe that we carry stuff with us we
carry big [music] life experiences in
our cells and in our bones the cocoa
bone it's getting it's getting cold so
we took uh typically this would be made
with a stringy male rooster is the
history of the dish. The cockbert
>> that I'm dead serious. Yeah, that's why
it's and not like a pouo van.
>> We we had a rooster for a bit when my
daughter was um living with me still.
Her and her boyfriend redid a barn that
had been built by the previous owners.
Um [music] and they they wanted chickens
and they had a rooster. Um, but the
rooster really terrorized the chickens
and [music] ended up, sorry I have to
say this, but pecking a hole into the um
the top of one of the chickens heads.
And um my daughter kept referring to him
at to him as an And he was he
was he was an And then the
neighbor started complaining because he
was just really loud.
>> Yeah.
>> And what was his name?
other than Anyway, we
cooked him and I wish I'd known about
the coco van because I would have cooked
him in cocoa van, but I think I I think
I made a curry. I think I made a a
chicken curry and he was tough. He was
an to eat as well as um an
in life.
>> Yeah, as in death. So too in life, you
know.
>> Oh, wait. Um wait, wait, wait.
Champ. [laughter]
>> If anybody introduces me to someone
named Champ, animal or otherwise, I'm
like, "This is [laughter] probably an
asshole." You know, it's just it's one
of those names.
>> His name was Champ. But we also had one
of my sons had had a chicken called
Nugget.
>> That's foreshadowing. I hope the chicken
didn't know that they were called
Nugget.
>> Nugget was sweet. We had a Kruella and a
Bera, I think. And yeah. Anyway,
>> did Kruella look like it was wearing a
Dalmatian coat? Kruella was black and
white. That was mine.
>> Talk to me about being one of six punks
in Grand Rapids.
>> One of six.
>> You've claimed that you were one of six
punks in all of Grand Rapids. I imagine
it was probably some artistic liberty.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> On the punk scene compared to uh
compared to in London,
>> but like is that still a part of you
that lives inside of you?
>> That like angry punk teenager.
>> Do you think that's still a part that
you carry with you?
>> I definitely do. Yeah.
>> Yeah. In what way? Today is the podcast
day and uh I did another sorry to tell
you I did a podcast before this. It
wasn't about boo.
>> I don't feel any less special.
[laughter]
>> One of the questions that came up is is
uh how am I with authority and um uh I'm
not so good with authority. you don't
say.
>> Um and and I I just I have a tendency to
be still um and I just, you know, I
think that once it's in your your bones,
if you've if you've got that if you're
the kind of person who will show up and
and join in a mosh pit or jump off the
stage and listen to that kind of music,
I I I don't think it it actually leaves
you.
>> Are there still albums or songs that you
can pull up that'll bring you back to a
moment in time? Oh, I I used to listen
to a lot of the Dead Kennedy's um
>> Bow House. Um Lords of the New Church,
Circle Jerks.
>> We do have one one more um surprise.
>> Oh, you did
>> dish. So, [clears throat] Jillian,
please tell the people what this is.
>> Wait, where did you get the recipe?
>> Did I You never give a recipe. You've
described it a little bit vaguely, but
we did find an official recipe from
Dole. So, we assume that that's maybe
where your family got it from, but we
added a little bit of lemon Jell-O to
the Well, this is whipped cream cheese,
crushed pineapple, and gelatin on the
bottom.
>> Can I say you have to put it here?
>> Can I tell you why,
>> please?
>> Because we eat it at Thanksgiving. And
this is like a turkey.
>> It's basically the same.
>> It's basically a turkey.
>> Tell us about green glass jelly, though.
We even uh brought a green glass that
was bought at an estate sale.
>> You're kidding.
>> I have to take a picture of that.
>> Apparently, our chef Colby just loves
going to estate sales and we learned
that about him. Thanks, Gold.
>> Oh my god. Are you trying it at the same
time? No, you got to get a little bit of
the pearl onion, a little bit of the
turkey.
>> Okay, I listen. I've eaten I've eaten
rare horse meat sandwiches at a carnival
in Sardinia. I've eaten raw chicken
sashimi. This is among the
>> chicken sushimi.
>> You don't need to eat it. It's bad. This
is among the craziest combinations of
foods I've ever eaten. No, Jillian.
>> Okay, so it's it's close. It's very
close. Go. Go on.
>> This is crazy. Just go on. Just do it.
Just
>> crazy. Just shove it in.
>> I've never experienced anything like
that in my entire life.
>> In one year, there was an heirloom
antique
green glass
bowl
>> Mhm. that the Jell-O was made in one
year and it was placed on top of the
fridge and I think it was grandpa opened
the fridge and
the whole thing broke and little pieces
of green glass got me mixed in with the
lime jell-o and uh that's how it became
green glass jello. It's very close.
>> Yeah, it's just missing the crunch of
some glass shards. It sounds like
>> that's what's missing. talking about the
uh distrust of authority. It's really
interesting that you played Dana Scully,
a character that was a straightlaced FBI
agent,
>> but who became this like hero for like
queer alt punk kids as a countercultural
icon
>> in a weird way. And I didn't realize how
strange that was because the fact that
she was literally a fed.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. But do you think that's because
the way the character was written or the
way that you played the character? I
think if it weren't for Moulder, it
would have been different. But there's
the influence of Moulder there who, you
know, underground uber cool
um anti-establishment.
Um, and also the Lone Gumman, having the
Lone Gumman who were our go-tos for
everything tech, who were
counterculture, uh, conspiracy theorist.
Um,
and [music]
you know, Fro Hickey, one of them had a
crush on Scully. And I think because
even though she was so square, she did
end up, you know, properly fighting the
system handinhand
with Moulder. Uh, and so I think that's
part of it. I think just the fact of the
the cult element of the series period
and yeah,
>> fair amount of nontraditional femininity
and pants suits as well. I think that
played that played some uh some role in
it. Yeah,
>> definitely all the polyester.
>> Yeah,
>> it was all the
>> Yeah, all the brick colored polyester
suits and Yeah,
>> but think about your characters like
even you know Dr. Gene Milbour in Sex
Education like
>> talking about you know your your books
want and more. It's like you know uh
owning female pleasure is a
countercultural act has been for a long
time going back to you know secret
garden and all that. Do you gravitate
towards countercultural characters or do
you think again that's just sort of you
coming through the page?
>> I think I I I probably um gravitate
towards them. I I think in a in a way,
you know, I've become a go-to uh actor
for those types of roles. Gene Milbour,
she had her own rebellious uh nature. Um
that was actually built into the
character separate from what else I um I
might have brought to the table. So I I
think it's a mixture.
>> There's one scene where where Dr.
Milbour is I think cooking. I was
watching with the sound off, but she's
doing a technique. She's like massaging
like um a corette.
>> Yeah. No, no, she's
>> I turned it off, but what happened?
[laughter]
>> I thought she was like a corette
melanise or what? What was it? No, it
was it was a video that was from her
younger
life where she was
Yeah. She was demonstrating how to give
a hand job.
>> It was a hand job. That's what it was.
That's what it was.
>> She wasn't cooking. That was just your
head.
>> I saw the I saw the bikini and you
thought she must be making a parmesan.
>> Yeah, exactly. Well, you know, maybe
[laughter]
>> Yeah,
>> maybe there's an opportunity there. You
know what I mean? [bell] Jillian, for
the final course of your final meal on
earth, we have raisin pie. We tried to
follow the recipe exactly as we could.
We put a little crumb topping on it.
Full disclosure, we had no reference for
how this should look or be served and
none of us had ever heard of it.
>> Interesting. Wait, so what's on top?
>> We baked it and we said this simply
doesn't look right. And so [laughter] we
put a crumble topping on it to um sort
of distract from
>> the foreskin. There was a foreskin on
it, but it's supposed to have a
foreskin.
>> I remember the foreskin on the raisin
pie.
>> And that was the best part. Like, did we
ruin it
>> by covering up the foreskin? [laughter]
>> I've never actually thought about it as
foreskin before. I just got a flashback
to what what the top of the raisin pie
used to look like. Now,
>> I need you to know we had a group of
five chefs, all with [laughter] a
combined 50 years of experience, staring
at this pie going, "Surely that's not
what it's supposed to look like.
[laughter]
Sure.
>> We figured it out. But it was
>> There's a metaphor there.
>> I can't wait to try it.
>> Please.
>> I thought that it had like three
ingredients to [music] it. That was like
milk flour. Well, maybe four. Milk
flour, raisins, and sugar.
>> Yeah.
>> It's bouncier than I thought it would
be.
>> Mhm.
>> Is this as bouncy as you remember?
>> It's It's usually bouncier.
[laughter] Sorry,
>> Jillian. How could it be bouncier than
this? I think that's the butter that we
add. The butter made it less bouncy cuz
we said surely surely it's not supposed
to bounce this high.
>> I think it's usually bouncier. I think
it's almost like um more like flan uh
texture.
>> M
>> I think if I This is a long time ago.
I'm talking about like as a 13year-old.
And
>> we have an alt
>> Oh, wait. We have a second a second pie
has hit the table.
>> Oh, this is this is the original. Oh,
this is the original foreskin.
>> I'll never forget Ash. Someone's like,
"Are you going to throw that away?"
She's like, "I'll save it just in case."
>> Just in case.
>> This is the foreskin.
>> Yeah, that's my childhood.
[laughter]
>> I think in Europe they don't do it. It's
different. I grew up Jewish, so we just,
you know, get that right out of the way.
>> You grew up Jewish?
>> I grew up Jewish, so foreskin's not a
thing for us.
>> Sorry. I
>> circumcision.
You have a drink called G-spot. Babe, I
didn't get that joke.
>> We're eating cocoa van.
>> What the hell?
>> That's okay. Now you're doing a lot of
podcasts today.
>> Yeah, it was quite stiff. That's quite a
stiff raised bite out there.
>> Most of the time, get ready for this
one. Most of the time when it's this
stiff,
>> you don't see the foreskin
>> cuz that's a another secret.
>> I I get I didn't know if I had to keep
explaining it.
>> I'm going to give you some of my G-spot
a wake up.
>> Thank you so much. just to um
>> I know it's really it's [music] I'm not
quite sure what went to right [laughter]
>> but
>> it's tough when you have no coco van for
instance it's been written about for
hundreds of years we know
>> when you have no reference whatsoever I
will um I'll ask my mom what her
techniques were
>> please please
>> um cheers
>> to to G-spot continuing series the
investment funding.
>> Yeah,
>> it's nice. It's It's lightly flavored.
It's Here's the thing about full sugar
soda. As an adult, you drink it and it's
like this tastes like pure cough syrup.
>> I always just take like a little bit of
like lime juice sometimes, some
pomegranate syrup, put it in in a
sparkling water.
>> It's sle.
>> It's it's it's
a little bit
>> I've just got in the habit if I have if
I have gelato.
Isn't Do you agree?
[laughter]
>> That's me. That's
>> two roads diverging. Yellow wood. Do we
Do I make you feel comfortable and not
weird? Do I say it? Do I speak my truth?
>> No. Speak your truth.
>> Um,
>> not for you.
>> I feel like there are very few
combinations in food that are not good.
So, so many of millions of foods
>> and this is one of them.
>> Well, I'll tell you what. We've eaten
two of them today. Um, this one this No,
I'm just like lemon and chocolate. I
think especially like sour lemon and
chocolate one of the few bad ones. I'm
I'm trying it though to be respectful.
>> No, I I appreciate that. I appreciate
that.
>> The cream cheese, lime jello, and gravy
was
>> and gravy.
>> Yeah. No, that was bordering on putrid.
But I love that it means a lot to you
and [laughter] I think that's beautiful.
Good, bad is a false dichotomy. We're
all just experiencing things.
>> Oh,
>> you've described yourself as having
Buddhist leanings and tendencies.
>> Yeah. There's a particular Buddhist coan
piece of philosophy that I love. Can I
can I read to you and see if you can
place?
>> Oh, yes, please. Yeah.
>> Okay.
[cough]
[clears throat]
>> Time passes in moments. Moments which
rushing past define the path of a life
>> just as surely as they lead towards its
end.
>> What?
>> Wait, where did you get that from?
>> How rarely do we stop to examine that
path to see the reasons why all things
happen? to consider whether the path we
take in life is our own making.
>> Wait,
>> or simply one into which we drift.
>> No, that's from all things.
>> Closed,
>> right? Is that what it is?
>> That is from all things.
>> That's from all things. Sorry, you
freaked me out for a minute. So, my
brother uh was diagnosed with a brain
tumor when he was 27 years old. And he
was a practicing glutist. And
>> his practice really was beneficial to
him uh at the end of his life. And I
think because of his practice, it also
helped
uh his family to um be present for him
and to process it and and etc. But he
had um a teacher who he'd gone to Nepal
uh I think a couple times with and um he
came to visit near to the end and had
written a poem
>> uh for Aaron and it was such a beautiful
poem but it was
um it was a very intimate poem between
the two of them about a journey that
they had had an experience that they'd
had in Nepal and um for a second I
thought that's what it was when you
started reading it. I didn't realize
that it was from All Things and so I it
was that's what was freaking me.
>> Well, all things that that was the one
episode of The Exiles that you wrote and
directed.
>> Did you write that? That was from the
the opening.
>> Did you write that? I think I a lot of
it I co-wrote with um Frank Spotnets who
was one of our um and I I don't know uh
what bits of mine remained in the end
and what bits were his. It was very much
a collaboration and there were two
scenes in particular that had been that
I'd left unwritten um by the time I
started shooting cuz I was shooting and
acting in it. And um and I can't
remember whether that was one from that
scene or whether that was something or
or whether it wasn't. I can't remember.
But
>> I think it's really interesting though
that that was so close to the poem that
you know was written for your brother
>> enough to to get you to second guess it
though.
>> Yeah. I um that just freaked me out. So
I'm just going to sit [laughter] here
and eat some ice cream cuz that's the
way to deal with it.
>> Going back to uh what we talked about
earlier though of like you know
>> See, you're still mixing them.
>> I am. I'm I've fully come around and I
now see their
>> Oh, I'm sorry.
I've now fully come around. Jillian, you
were right. I was wrong. You're smart.
I'm dumb. I think the older I get, the
more I start to just see the world in
patterns. But it's like you see the same
patterns in nature everywhere. And you
can almost see the mistakes that you're
going to make,
>> but you can't change them because you
know that's how everything is meant to
to play out.
>> And so, what's a mistake you've yet to
make that you know you're going to make?
I can't I can't speak of a new
[laughter] existence. It scares the
out of me.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, it involves my wife. It
involves starting a family. And it
involves,
>> you know, a weird vision I had of, you
know, sharing custody of a kid because
that's what I grew up with,
>> right?
>> You know what I mean? And so it's like I
know what you mean.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Have you seen that in your
own life, these patterns? I think more
often than not because I'm so stubborn
and no one, not even myself, is going to
tell me anything that I will head
straight towards the the elephant,
[music]
>> straight towards a thing that I'm I'm
not supposed to, you know, that I should
have learned a lesson about avoiding. I
feel like maybe I've broken that pattern
a little bit. I almost feel like I that
I'm I might be done with that um in my
life. Famous last words, but
>> uh since we're in the last meal.
Exactly.
>> Might as well. Um
>> but yeah, it's hard, but also, you know,
that is that's life. I mean we all I
don't I don't know many humans and and
particularly creative humans who don't
walk close to the fire uh in in in
[music]
some ways in their lives and it
certainly makes things um
uh more interesting like you know
chocolate and
women
>> I I think so and even going back to you
know this this kind of transient seeking
nature There's a lot of people who are
perfectly content to not walk towards
that fire,
>> you know, and I I sometimes hesitate to
essentialize that like, but a lot of
creatives that I know, we have a a thing
in common, you know, that I wouldn't
want to put a diagnosis on, but somebody
smarter than me probably could,
>> you know, and figure out what that is.
But
>> yeah,
>> do you think that [music] that has made
your life better or worse that walking
towards the fire?
>> I think it's both. I think that there
will be some things that you um I don't
have a tendency to regret, but the older
one gets, the more you start to think, I
could have made a different decision
there. Oh, I could have maybe if I I
could have chosen another path that
maybe was a bit more boring, a bit more
settled, a bit less exciting or it feels
almost like an extinguishing of my own
internal flame in a way even though it
doesn't necessarily that's just a
perspective of it.
>> Sure.
>> It uh
>> it's probably something powerful in the
intuition to call it that though.
>> But life is long for some people.
>> Yeah, of course. Your your brother gave
you a Locust figurine that he got in
Tibet.
>> Yeah.
>> Do you still carry it?
>> Uh it's still in in my purse. Yeah, it
is.
>> What does it mean to you?
>> I try and be as altruistic as as I can.
And then there are people in life who
you feel that they properly devote their
lives to something or they go they they
properly go out of their way [music] in
order to be of service or to follow a
belief system. And so whether it was you
know him traveling to Nepal for the sake
of you know supporting high school
students who were going there as well or
whether it was his active
um practice is active Buddhist practice.
It felt like
he put he jumped in with both feet,
whereas I have a tendency to fill my
plate so much that I have feet in so
many different places that I worry that
sometimes I don't. Um, and so it kind of
it's a reminder of that, I guess.
>> I've always been very jealous of like
capital T, true believers, somebody who
who would actually devote themselves
fully to a cause. And it sounds like he
was one of those people. Yeah,
>> it's really beautiful.
>> We ask everybody on the show, what do
you think happens when you die?
>> I do think that
upon death, you were met by
the spirit of all the people that have
been important and you've gone through
multiple lives with.
>> Yeah.
>> I don't think there are gates and I
don't think there are, you know, that
there are robes.
>> Gates seem antithetical [laughter] to a
lot of the idea.
>> Yeah. I do believe that we meet the
people that we have traveled through
many lifetimes with and
um and then we do it again.
>> Do animals count in there? Like is Champ
the rooster [laughter] going to
greet you and be like why why did you
cook
>> the top of my head until there's a hole?
>> It's a very Greek tragedy thing to do.
>> Yeah.
>> You ready to get in the lightning round?
>> Yeah.
>> Let's do it. Who's the one person dead
or alive you'd want to share your actual
last meal with? Uh, probably my brother.
>> What song do you want to be played at
your funeral?
>> How about You Can't Always Get What You
Want?
>> You've played Elanor Roosevelt and
Margaret Thatcher. Who's another world
leader you'd like to play?
>> Oh gosh. Uh, oh, maybe uh I could play
um could I play Hinta? Um, who was
president of uh Australia, New Zealand?
Oh my god, am I Oh, justinda Ardurn.
>> Yes.
>> Justinda Ardurn.
>> Yeah.
>> Hell yeah. Who's your dream eulogizer at
your funeral?
>> Kind of wants like an Ian Mckllen or
something like that. Yeah. Yeah, why
not? Yeah, [laughter]
>> we'll see if he's available. If Hannibal
Lectar served you your last meal, would
you eat it? Yes or no? [music]
>> No.
>> He could really cook, though.
>> I know, but no way.
>> I don't know, man.
>> I don't know who that might have been.
It would have been one of my kids.
>> What's your biggest fear?
>> Raisin pie.
Mine's that
>> stiff raisin pie.
>> Stiff raisin pie. Balancing through your
nightmares. [laughter]
>> What's your greatest regret in life?
[sighs]
>> Probably not listening to my intuition
on multiple occasions.
That cost me years.
>> Finally. Jill, are you happy?
>> I'm very happy.
>> You seem very happy. I'm tremendously
happy that you chose to dine here with
us. Um, regardless of the bounciness of
our foreskin pie, [laughter] but if you
want to deliver
>> skin pie,
>> sorry, raisin pie, extra foreskinned. If
you want to deliver your last words to
that camera right there,
>> I think I would probably be it.
>> Everyone, give it up for Jillian
Anderson. We got it.
We've all uh truly this is an absolute
dream.
>> Thank you so much for the profoundity of
everything.
>> That was
>> absolutely
>> mightily enjoyable. Thank you. Of
course, everyone, make sure you check
out G-spot. And where can they find it?
The G-spot
>> online. Go find it.
>> Also, she's got the book more out
September 15th. And then Teenage Sex and
Death at Camp Measma. Is that You have
so much going on. You're doing more,
too.
>> Yeah.
>> You're in Ben Affleck's directorial. Is
that his directorial debut?
>> No. Say that again. You're going to want
to say that again.
>> What did I say?
>> Because he's [music] directed a lot of
films.
>> Ben Affleck's directed a lot of films.
>> Yeah, he has. Just say it again. You're
in esteemed director Ben Affleck, who's
directed all my favorite films. You're
in his upcoming film Animals with an S.
>> I am. That is correct. [music]
>> Yes, I know.
>> I put a lot of effort into the first
parts of the the interview and then
really phoned in the last.
>> It's okay. It's okay.
>> You got anything else you want them to
know about?
>> Um, these taste really good and we're
still looking for investments. So, if
you want to um uh They're really
delicious.
>> Has he directed? He's a
>> Argo. Did you ever see Argo?
>> Can I like direct? HE WON A GODDAMN
ARGO. BYE. BYE EVERYBODY. Good night.
Good luck.
>> Shop the new Last Meals collection now
at mythical.com.