Hi, I’m William H. Macy and this is my Last Meal. Every person has exactly two things in common. We all gotta eat and we’re all gonna die. Today’s guest is an actor, writer, and spirit spokesperson who you might recognize from “Fargo”, “Boogie Nights”, “Magnolia”, and 11 seasons of “Shameless.” His newest movie, “Train Dreams” is out on Netflix now, and he once got nominated for an Academy Award after threatening a dog. William H. Macy, welcome to the show. Good to be here. Thank you for being here! How many directors- Everyone does have to die, but have you ever lived with an actor? They don’t eat. That makes sense. I’m grateful that you’re breaking the fast for us today. Yes. I have to ask though, how many directors pets did you threaten before it finally worked and got you casted? Just one. And that director was? Don’t try this at home, folks. But I auditioned for “Fargo” several times here in L.A. and I have found out that they were in New York. So I got my jolly jolly Lutheran ass there and I crashed that thing and thank God, Ethan [Coen]’s got a good sense of humor. He’d just gotten a dog and I said, “You don’t gimme this part, I’ll shoot your dog.” And with that amount of severity. It’s not a good idea, don’t try that. It worked for me. But don’t try it. Sometimes it only takes one to change your life, you know what I mean? I know, true. Have you thought about your last meal before? No, I haven’t. Little late to be telling you this, but I’m not a food guy that much. And it’s held me a good stead. My mom, bless her soul, was a dreadful cook. So I just didn’t grow up thinking about what’s for dinner because it was always… It was always a trial. What was the worst thing she cooked? She would make a roast every Sunday and we had to sit around the table and eat the roast. And my father, every Sunday he was alive He’d go “Hmm. Delicious, Hun.” And it didn’t matter if it was raw, it didn’t matter if it was cremated, it didn’t matter if the dog had run through the neighborhood with it. He always said the same thing. Yeah. We busted him one time. He was eating the crumbs off the table and saying, “Hmm, it’s good!” And then my brother said, “Pa, we potted a plant on the table. That’s dirt.” I know you’ve talked about seeing your parents’ biggest, most explosive fight where the only word ever uttered by your dad was “Well.” Yes. And that was it! That was the big explosion. So it sounds like it wasn’t a very emotive household that took pleasure into account a lot. Did I mention I’m Lutheran? Yeah, that was my parents fighting. My mother said something rather sharp, and my father said something sharp, and my mother said something sharper, and my father went “Well.” And afterwards my brother and I go, “Whoa, did you see dad blow! Oh, my God! Wasn’t that something?” You can’t expect those people to season their food, it’s a different kind. No, you can’t. You can’t expect much. So what was your strategy in picking the final meal? Did you learn anything about yourself? Well, I’m a southern boy, and my fondest memories are going to Pascagoula, Mississippi where my grandmother lived, my mother grew up. She was a magnificent cook. And I married a woman who’s a magnificent cook. There’d be a pile of shrimp the size of this table. It was this high. Because shrimp back in those days, or “srimp” as my mother would say, was cheaper than hamburger. Yeah. It was poor people food. Oh, I just loved it. So shrimp with everything. How often do you think about death in general? I’m a bit of a serendipitous, so I’m believing I’m gonna escape it all together. Do you have a specific plan to escape it? Or just sort of trusting in the process? I’m sort of in awe that I’m still upright at this. I’m 75 years old and I’m still doing it. I can still learn lines. That’s a blessing! It sure is. I’m excited to take some of those years off by drinking some gin. You ready to eat? Yes. Let’s do it. Bill, for the first course of your final meal, we have the wedge salad with blue cheese, no bacon, so we actually did a kind of smoky, crispy fried shallots on top to maybe mimic some of that flavor. And then we have the crab cakes. This is pure Maryland jumbo lump crab with some extra claw meat baked right in there. And then a little bit of remoulade and lemon. And then we have the Woody Creek Mary’s gin and tonic with that beautiful purple color in there. Yes. Cheers. Cheers. That is magnificent. God, that’s wonderful. It looks so futuristic too. I know. There are a bunch of purple gins out there. Woody Creek, in my humble opinion makes the best one. It’s butterfly pea blossom. I was in Africa recently riding horses with my family and at the end of every day they would show up. One guy would take your horse, and one guy would give you a gin and tonic. Where in Africa was this? Kenya. We rode interesting horses for 11 days across Laikipia, which is above the Maasai Mara. I believe you watched a herd of lionesses take down a cape buffalo when you were on the Maasai Mara. It was stunning! It was stunning. Half of our company couldn’t watch and the other half couldn’t take their eyes off of it and I couldn’t take my eyes off of it. What did you see in that? What was so sort of stunning about it? It was violent but it was not angry. If that makes any sense. It makes pure sense. Yeah. It was just dinner. And to watch these lionesses work together, man. Oh, that’s good. Don’t you love blue cheese? I really do. And without the bacon, or shallots. That’s fabulous. I mentioned that my mom was not a cook. Salad for us was iceberg lettuce cut in half, and maybe in quarters, with a dollop of Miracle whip on top. Yes! And maraschino cherry. You had me in the first half there, Bill. I know you said she was a bad cook. Did you ever ask her why the cherry? She’d probably seen it somewhere, and… You didn’t ask my mom anything about the cooking. That’s a fair point. When was the first time you had a wedge salad? How did this end up on the last meal? I don’t know. There’s something about the lightness of a wedge salad that I just love. I’m gonna try one of these crab cakes. Try a crab cake, please. I’ve got an affinity for crab cakes. It’s like one of the world’s truly great foods. It really is. It’s a perfect food. Oh, my God. These are great crab cakes. This is incredible. Really good. A lot of crab meat. It’s a delicate architectural balance where the crab has to be just held together enough. Exactly. Sometimes they put too much meal in there and it’s more cake than crab. Are you still not eating red meat? Because I know at some point your daughters asked you to go vegan and neither of them particularly stuck with it. No. And then you did for several years. I didn’t lose a freaking pound. I didn’t have any more energy, my skin didn’t clear up, nothing! I got nothing for it except starvation. Why’d you keep doing it? You did it for years. I’m stubborn that way. My wife mocks me for it, hut she says “You don’t have to eat everything in your bowl.” ‘Cause when I grew up you had to. You had to eat everything you were given. Yeah. It was a rule. When we raised our daughters, the rules were you can eat all you want or nothing. The only rule was you have to sit at the table with us. But we didn’t make them eat. I love these two dishes. ‘Cause to me they really remind me of like a steakhouse. But this is the best part of the steakhouse. I’m not particularly interested in the steak. However, when I do order one in a steakhouse, depending on how inebriated I am when I get there I say, “Gimme your meanest steak, rare. And I mean rare.” “Just wipe its butt, dehorn it and send it in.” Because I watched “Happy Texas.” Isn’t it great? It’s a fantastic movie. That would’ve been- That’s a line from “Happy Texas” by the way. That was your line from “Happy Texas.” And I had that movie on VHS. That would’ve been the first time that I ever saw you. And I have this like incredible attachment to it. But as somebody who has like more than 150 IMDB credits to their name, what is the weirdest role that somebody’s recognized you for? The thing that kills you is when they go, “I was seven when I saw ‘Fargo.’” and I went, “You don’t have to tell me that. I don’t care.” Yeah. Oh, Mary. Mary’s gin. the best purple gin on the market. Yeah, how did you get involved in Woody Creek? ‘Cause you live in Woody Creek and I believe the owners of the distillery just asked you if they could plant potatoes in your yard? That’s it. That’s how I got involved. Yeah. That’s how most business transactions happen, I guess. The distillery, which is magnificent, these Christian Carl Stills that are two stories high. Hmm. Pat and Mary Scanlan started the distillery and they have money to be blunt. So they set out from the very beginning to make the finest spirits possible. They had three rules. Let’s make the stuff we want to drink. Yeah. Let’s make it affordable, and let’s make it as good as it can be made. The end. That’s it. They’ve expanded as much as they’re going to expand. So we’ve got bourbon, about four or five of them, we’ve got Rye, which is my drink. I love rye. You and me both. We’ve got about four of them. I don’t know if this is true, but when George Washington left office, they bounced his last two or three checks and he had money problems, and he started distilling rye whiskey to get outta debt. It’s the kind of beautiful American story of taking this like very native weed and turning it into something Yeah. Commercial. And speaking of American stories, you’ve talked about “Train Dreams”, your new movie, which is fantastic. One of those beautifully shot movies. Isn’t it something? Even just the opening sequence, you’re immediately hooked on just the visual language of it all. But you’ve talked about how it’s this like quintessential story about the American spirit. What does the American Spirit mean to you? This sounds like a whiskey commercial right now. What does the American Spirit mean to you and how have you seen that definition change over the years? The world thinks of America by the founding of the West. They think of as Cowboys can do. Tough, big, gun Totten. Marlboro man. That’s right. And it’s hard to shake that. But in fact we’re a melting pot. It’s hard to say what the American character is. It’s everything. There’s a moment in the movie where Joel Edgerton’s character is talking to Arn Peeples, your character, and he says, “Where do the years go?” And you say, “I don’t know, but if you figure it out, let me know. ’cause I want some of them back.” Do you find yourself feeling that way? As you get older it seems like the pace picks up. The birthdays come faster and faster. On the other hand, I love where I am right now. And looking back is kind of a fool’s err, and there’s nothing we can do about it. I, like probably everyone else, every once in a while you wake up in the middle of the night, you think of what you said, or that girl, or that situation. You go, “Oh, God!” Yeah. But, go back to sleep. There’s nothing you can do about it. Has your relationship with that changed? Because I don’t have a lot of experience or wisdom on this earth, but I feel like I am tracking it in real time as I get older, I’m 33 now and I’ve noticed my relationship with that shame has changed. Whereas every year goes on, I think, “Well, what the could I have possibly done about that?” And that shame sort of lessons. Like what sort of wisdom have you gotten about yourself as you’ve, you know, spent more time on the earth? Wisdom? I think this is my take on it. And I think after your past 70, everyone has to listen to you. Also, you can fart in public, and you can forget people’s names. And if you don’t like it, tough shit. You should feel comfortable to do all of that here. Let’s meet up again when you’re 70. And we’ll see how you’re doing. I don’t think it’s about fixing yourself. I don’t think we can fix ourselves. Our Catholic brethren say that a person is cooked at age seven. And I agree with that, I think you’re done. Your personality is set. And that was reinforced by my two daughters. I think our task is to accept ourselves. ‘Cause nobody changes, man. It’s a bit of a frightening proposition, though. Cook cooked by seven is… You really gotta live in there for a long time. My daughters, fabulous women. I’m so proud of them. Same ingredients, same kitchen, same cooks, completely different women. Is that nature? Is that nurture? Is that complete luck of the draw? They are who they are when they’re born, so that would be nature, and the nurture part that has something to do with it. But it’s interesting the way you’re describing it, it’s almost like there’s this train on a linear path and like you can throw a rock at the train and the conductor might slow it down a little bit. Go “The was that.” But it doesn’t really affect its trajectory that much. It’s a great analogy. Yeah. It’s gonna go in the same direction no matter what. You’ve talked about when you were a younger actor, your biggest concern was doing a role that said something about the human condition. Did you ever do a role that really changed your beliefs or affected your beliefs about the human condition? When I was a young actor, I would ask myself when I got a script, “How does this speak to the human condition?” When I was a middle aged actor, I would ask myself, “What does this pay?” Yeah. And now I ask, “Do I have to get wet?” Someone get the hose! The great writer, greatest writer of our time, David Mamet was my mentor, teacher, mentor and pal. Yeah. They changed me more than the roles. So many people, almost every single person that I’ve sat across from here, especially people who are older, they say they regret not spending more time with family and friends than people they love and spending more time working. Do you think that’s true? Right after the kids were born I, like almost every guy I’ve ever met, sort of freaked out about money. And I took every single job that came along and left Felicity with the kids, and she’s still angry about it. Maybe I could have been around more. I’m not sure if I was a good dad or not. I think I’m doing a better job now. Have you asked your kids? They’re not gonna tell me the truth. Bill, for course number two of your final meal on earth, we have the gumbo with Louisiana rice. In the middle is actually an heirloom type of rice called Charleston Gold. And then we have the shrimp, the crab, the proper dark cooked brew with a little bit of filet that’s ground sassafras in there and all of the cajun trinity. Then we have the cast iron cornbread over here. Not too sweet, not too savory either. Right there in the middle with some whipped honey butter. We have the asparagus, with effectively a Hollandaise sort of a buttery emulsion. And then Brussels sprouts in the style of Empire diner. Yep. We tried to do as much digging as we could. They’re slightly peeled, deep fried with a little bit of garlic and calabrian chili, then a glass of Sancerre wine. Dig in. Serve yourself please. Let’s just check out this cornbread. I might be leaving if this isn’t… What are you looking for? What are archeologing over here? I’ll tell you in a minute. Here you go, can I put that on your plate? Thank you, please. Alright. All right, first I’m just gonna taste. I’m staying. Oh, thank God. We would’ve had to AI Deepfake you for the rest of the episode. Sometimes it’s kind of bitter, you know, it has no sugar in it. Sometimes it’s like cake. Yeah. Yeah. This is a perfect balance. Well done. I find proper southern cornbread tends to be a little bit more kind of savory and dry than I’d like. Yeah. But I think that’s because I’m a west coast kid. I don’t have like that, you know, that context for it. Thanksgiving is one of my favorite meals, but when people try to improve the stuffing, I get so angry, cause I want traditional stuffing. That’s why I showed up. But cornbread stuffing’s pretty good. I agree with that entirely. That’s not an improvement. That’s like a fun lateral geopolitical movement a way. That’s right. I heard about the piles of shrimp going to live your aunt’s house in the south. Is that where you had gumbo for the first time? Gumbo, jambalaya, she would do ’em all. I remember also she had trees in her background. She had fig trees and we showed up one time when the figs were ripe. Yeah. Man, I have never been sick like that in my life. I eat the whole tree apparently. It’s so funny that you call yourself not a food guy, ’cause it sounds like you have these quintessential memories about food. It’s the roux, and that’s an excellent roux. This is great. It’s got a lot of bite to it. I mean, when the flavor comes from like burnt flour and that’s the best you had at the time to add flavor to something. You know? You know, it is like… We call it “Peasant food”, but it’s one of the most delicious things in the entire world. Hmm! My goodness. When you cook gumbo, like, taking the roux that dark, everything in your instincts as a cook tells you “I should stop, this is burnt.” But the longer you take it, the darker and more burnt it gets, Interesting. The better it tastes. So it’s this kind of ultimate trusting in those who came before you. Have you ever had a moment like that as an actor where you’re like, “This director’s asked me to do something crazy and it’s against my instincts, but I’m gonna trust the process.” You’re good. Taking it from gumbo to directing. That was good. I was worried I wasn’t gonna find it. And sometimes I don’t. You did. Oh, cheers. Cheers. We have to look at each other. We do. I feel like we have to redo that take and we can act like the previous taken… Cheers. Cheers. Oh, you gotta hit it on the table. Oh, you do? Yeah, sorry. That’s a take three! Do we need… Okay, ready? Cheers. Bravo. In my house everyone says, “You didn’t look at me!” When there’s seven people table. I go, “Can we just drink?” Yeah, trusting the director, what a concept. As I’ve gotten older, I’ll do it as it’s written and I’ll do it as they have directed it, at least once. And then if I’ve got a better idea, rather than arguing, I just say, “You wanna see something?” And I’ll try it that way. I did a a TV series for 11 years, “Shameless.” A whole decade of getting to show up and apply your trade. It’s my 10,000 hours. And I put down a lot of baggage that I’ve been carrying around as an actor. All this stuff that I thought was important. And it allowed me to realize “That scene wasn’t so good, but there’s another scene.” And “That episode was pretty bad. But there’s another episode.” Yeah. And it doesn’t really matter. And then scenes that I had argued about, or plot points or plot lines. I said, “This is stupid! It’s too broad, it doesn’t make any sense!” When I would see it, it’s not that I wasn’t right, it was stretched, it could have been better, but it wasn’t that bad and it didn’t make any difference. Yeah. Your worst fears are all significantly worse than the actual reality. Totally. And it’s a weird way to make a living, man. Because on one hand, what’s more important than the actor? I mean, until we get it right, nobody goes home. Yeah. And true order of things. The writer is number one, if you don’t have a good script and a good story to tell, why show up? It ain’t gonna get better, ’cause the audience only wants to know one thing. “What happens next? Just tell me the story.” They don’t care about the shots. Sorry, all you DPs, They don’t care about the shots, they don’t care about the acting, they don’t care about the emotions. They just want to know this story! “Tell me the story.” That’s what they paid the money for. And it’s so easy for us to say, “No, it’s about my lighting, it’s about my costumes, it’s about the makeup I did.” That stuff is important and it really helps, but at the end of the day, it’s the writer. And next in line comes the director. Because somebody’s gotta put it all together. And the producer too, right? Director and producer. The producer hires the director. The actors come way late. Yeah. Just below gaffer. Just below gaffer, yeah. Some actors referred to the idea of acting as quote “A pubescent fantasy” That is ultimately about power in a way. Do you think any of you becoming an actor was about wanting that sort of power, that sort of fame, that ability to have some sort of control? Or was that not part of it? Every actor from the time they did a high school play starts working on their Academy Award speech. I mean, that’s… You can’t help it. Yeah. But no. I’m a lucky guy. When everybody gets quiet and it’s my turn to talk. I really like that time. I really like it. I like the improv that happens. Not the lines, when the scene is up in the air and you don’t know where it’s gonna go. It brings me alive. I remember when “American Buffalo” came out, one of the great plays of the 20th century, but it’s very profane. To put that on Broadway, that was a kind of a shocking new thing. And you were running American Buffalo at the St. Nicholas Theater where it was so DIY that you actually built a lot of the seats yourself, as the talented carpenter that you are. We decided that we would open our own theater. This is Steven Schachter, my buddy. I had just done American Buffalo, the first production of it at the Goodman. And they wanted to move it. It was at Goodman’s stage two. I said, “Well, move it to our theater.” And Greg Mosher ran and said, “It’s a good idea, except you don’t have a theater.” And I said, “No, we just rented it.” And six weeks later we had turned this abandoned warehouse into a theater. We made it. Do you look back on those as like the halon times the golden years? Oh, my God! I was in my twenties. You had to know me to get a ticket. Talk about the exercise of a power fantasy of an actor, yeah. All right. Yeah. Hmm, I love asparagus. I have a fabulous garden, and my asparagus, I got to harvest it last year. Mm. You gotta plan it and three years later you can start eating. Is that real? Yeah. Damn. That’s an exercise in patience that I don’t think I have. Mm. Try the sprouts. Mh-hm. Damn. Those are really good. That is a burst with flavor. I love Brussels sprouts. The diner, they shred it a lot more. They shred the leaves off and then maybe they fry those up? And then they do all that stuff. So you get a little bit of the brussels sprout, but it’s really fluffy. Yeah. Yeah. The taste is very similar, though. Talking about being, you know, a stupid young actor who is an asshole, your words, not mine. You ended up working with a ton of very young actors on Shameless and many who have gone on to do great things. Did you see them making the same dumb mistakes that you did when you were young? Did it feel like this full circle moment? Yes. There’s a thing in Hollywood. Number one in the call sheet is, usually the biggest role or the biggest actor, it means a lot to some actors. I don’t get hung up on that, but I was number one on Shameless. And when you have that position, it comes with a responsibility. And sometimes when the number one doesn’t take that responsibility, it’s a bad thing. My opinion has a lot of weight. And I was circumspect with my words, and my opinion, but I didn’t say things to them very often. Every once in a while. And I directed some of them. And that was my time to say whatever I’ve been wanting to say, but didn’t say. Yeah. Until then. It was fascinating to see those folks grow up. Emma was… Emma Kenney was 12? 11-12? And I got to watch ’em grow up, and get boyfriends and buy houses, and get their first DUIs. Aw! I was so proud. That’s so sweet. Mark Mylod directed the pilot and he also did the British version. He’s British. And we rehearsed for about a week or 10 days. And then on the last day, Mark said, “It’s been a great week. There are buses waiting, two big vans waiting. Go out, we’ve given the drivers money, you’re gonna go to a miniature golf course, and there’s some batting cages there if you want to hit some balls, and just go have a good time.” And he starts to walk away, and I go, “Whoa, whoa! What is… What? What is this an acting exercise? Are we going in character?” And I didn’t say it, but I said everything, but “I’m too old for this shit, man. I’m not gonna go do an improv.” Yeah. With these people at a batting cage. It’s not gonna happen. And he said, “No, no, no. All I’m asking you to do is go play miniature golf.” You know, I could have gone home at noon, but now I had to go play miniature golf with these people. And we got there and we got in line and, and Emma Kenney got in front of me and she goes bump, and the ball goes, and they go, “Oh, do over, do over!” And she goes, bump, and they go “Uh.” and she goes, “Do over, do over.” And I’m standing there where Emma can’t hit the freaking ball. Just roll it that way! You know? Just hit it once. And I’m waiting, and I’m waiting, and I’m waiting. And I was pissed off anyway to be there, and finally I go in and I sweep her aside and I said, “I’m playing through.” And I shot through and you know, I got to the second hole and I thought, “I think I just discovered this character.” “I think I know who Frank Gallagher is.” I was so… Talk about trusting directors. Yeah. Really. It was a brilliant moment. The greatest improv exercise of all just send you to a mini golf course with a bunch of kids. Do you think any part of Frank Gallagher is your own id? Oh, yeah. A lot of it. Yeah? I have interesting turns of phrase. I love language, I like antique words, and antique phrases, and I’ve done a billion plays and movies. So, you know, you take phrases from them. I’d read scripts and they were imitating me. They would use my turn of phrase. And the writers weren’t on set that much. I don’t know where they got it, but… Frank Gallagher is one of the most despicable characters in TV history with truly no moral compass whatsoever. And no part of you hates him. Every, every part of you loves Frank in Roots for Frank, his family. How were you able to pull that off? Was that your acting? Was that the character? Was that the overall tone of the show? What do you think it was? I don’t know, man, but I made a whole career out of it. Oh, yeah, you did. That’s what’s up. Jerry Lundegaard guard was despicable I played a lot of despicable people that you like anyway. Yeah. I’m not sure. I know some things. One, never give up with your character. Never give up. Fight until the very end, ’cause there’s something so compelling about someone striving. Yeah. To do something. That you can’t take your eyes off of them. And in a weird way, you start to root for them. Even if it’s to rob the bank, or to get away from the cops! I’ve done a good amount of dramatic things, but I always bring levity. I just… I make jokes at the most inopportune times. I always have. It’s good to bring a little sense of humor into everything. Bill, for the final course, your final meal on earth, we got the key lime pie. This is a classic graham cracker crust, the condensed milk, little bit of lime zest on top. You can see we do have the authentic key limes. And then we have a whole cherry pie here. A little bit of turbinado sugar on the top. The french roast, extra dark espresso. And then the Woody Creek distillers, William H. Macy Reserve rye whiskey. Yep. That’s mine. You made this yourself? I did. Can I pour you up or do you wanna pour yourself? No, you can pour it. Absolutely. What makes this William H. Macy Reserve? I did a blind tasting at the distillery. I’m a rye guy. I love rye. It ain’t bourbon, that’s not America’s… That’s not America’s drink, it’s rye whiskey, old Monongahela. Anyway, I also like the taste better, and I’m a southern boy I grew up drinking bourbon and I just love the way it tastes. It’s got the bite. I think the aftertaste is superlative. It tends to be a different kind of sweetness than the bourbon for me. At any rate. I did a blind barrel tasting and there were seven barrels and on barrel number four, ’cause you’re supposed to spit it out, and that’s not my… I kept swallowing it. So barrel number four, I had to take myself outside and give myself a talking to, to get through this thing. ’cause we had four other people there who could drink a bourbon and tell you what county it came from. Jesus. They were that good. I can now tell the difference between Rye and bourbon, but that’s as far as it goes. I can drink a bourbon and tell you how likely I am to get in a fight with a horse later. That’s about my only skill with bourbon. You are right. I’ll tell you, the chances go up the more you drink. Rye is also my drink, though. I love rye so much. A Rye Manhattan’s my favorite cocktail. Cheers. It’s sublime, man. We make the finest rye in America. Yes. I said the finest rye in America, there are other good ones, but there’s none better. Okay- You landed on the perfect side quest! As, I mean, this is literally people who wanted to grow potatoes in your yard. Yeah! But you look like you were built to have your own reserve bottle of a hundred proof rye. Don’t I? You’re a serendipitous! I know! Life works out. I know. It’s obvious casting, but what the hell. I’m a snob about coffee too. I heard Woody Harrelson was originally supposed to be cast as the Woody Creek distillery spokesperson. What? Oh! Okay, I said “I like it strong.” Yeah. Hey, man. Hey, enamel in your teeth is overrated anyway. 120 proof coffee. Let’s drink a little rye just to cut the coffee. Oh, my God. That’s good. That’s the best thing I’ve ever had in my whole mouth. And, I’m not bullshitting like that is by far the best rye I’ve ever had. I love the hundred proof too, because that kind of bite from the alcohol, it kind of plays with that peppery fruitiness. Check this out too. It’s a great gift. You open it up and there’s his highness standing in Woody Creek! Is that cool or what? It really is made so much better by the fact that this all seemed to happen completely randomly. Right? That this wasn’t- It really did. This wasn’t Diageo approaching you and saying like, “Hey, we’re looking, we need our George Clooney for Casa Amigos. We’re getting Bill Macy for- Yeah. Woody Creek. I joke, but it’s not a joke. I was the only celebrity in walking distance. I wonder who the next person they would’ve had to get to down the road. It would’ve been Don Henley. He lives down the road. Oh, its awesome. I live in Aspen, man. It’s rarefied air. Yeah, Mark Kettner the other founder of the distillery account, knocked on the door. This is after I woke up and there were all these white flowers growing in one of our pastures. Felicity grew up in Little Woody Creek and we bought her childhood home. Oh, no way. Which is an excellent husband move. I recommend it very, very highly. Oh, God. It’s like get outta trouble for 10 years. Anyway, knocked on the door and I said, “What are those flowers?” And my brother-in-law Moore, who lives with us, said “They planted potatoes, Woody Creek Distillers.” And he said, “Ah, I thought they were petunias.” But it’s a beautiful field when they bloom. And he knocked on the door and he said, “Bill, I’m your neighbor.” And I said, “Yeah, Mark. We’ve said hello.” And he said, “I don’t know if you know this, but we have a distillery down in Basalt.” And I said, “I’m gonna stop you right there. I’m in.” And I joined the distillery, and now I play ukulele, well, they put a ukulele. I don’t know if you can see it. There’s a ukulele on there. When I took the job, the pandemic hit. So I couldn’t do anything. And in frustration I wrote a… I play ukulele, I have for years. And I wrote a song about the famous Woody Creek Tavern of Hunter Thompson fame. Oh, yeah. And flick a shot it on a iPhone and we put it on the internet. A lot of people really liked it. So since then, I write songs about alcohol and the valley, and distilling. And I perform them when we go to, you know, like the distributors have their Christmas party. I sing some ukulele songs and sing these songs. You also opened for John Oates. Talk about Serendipitousness. I was down in… Oh, man, cherry pie. Can I serve you some cherry pie? And Key Lime Pie? We died and gone to Heaven! Truly. I was doing a gig in Nashville for Woody Creek. And I look out in the audience and there sits John Oates, in Hall and Oates fame. I thought “That’s what’s been missing. I wasn’t nervous enough.” And he was sphinx like, I mean, you know, it was hard not to perform the whole thing from him, but at the end he couldn’t have been nicer, and he asked me to open for him two concerts in Denver. I mean, he wrote every cool song. Yeah! In the 70s, the 80s and the 90s, and he’s still writing cool songs, and here comes this dumbass actor with the ukulele. I could see the audience going, “What’s going on?” But I think I won them. I’ve got a song, it’s called “I Love Up Women.” And I started with that. I had their attention from the beginning. That’s a great cherry pie. Why cherry pie and key lime pie? Because I couldn’t decide. That’s a great answer. Yeah. Also, I don’t have to pay for this, so why not? That’s a good point. You could have gotten Wagyu steak, I’m glad you only got the cherry pie. Mm. Key lime pie. You seem to have this incredible blend of both romanticism and complete aromanticism. It’s almost like you’re trying to actively fight off the romanticism in your life. And it sounds like it goes back to childhood in a certain way, but like the way that you view spirits, for instance, you talk about it very romantically, but I know growing up watching the way your parents strength the warm Canadian rye from underneath the sink, sitting next to the cleaning products, chasing it with water. Like medicine. You could have like gone the full bohemian route where everything is a romantic thing possible. And it sounds like you sort of were on that track, owned a Goddard College, which is like the ultimate bohemian, weird performance artist college. But you still seem so grounded in a way. I recognize that. Yeah. My daughters and my wife make fun of me because I weep now, the older I get, the more I cry. I mean, Felicity and I did a benefit of love letters, the AR Gurney play. And oh, my God, I got to the end of the thing, made a fool of myself, started crying and I couldn’t speak. I’m just such a sap with that. We’re watching television and my daughter’s sitting, commercial will come on and they’re just watching me and they go, “Are you crying?” And I go, “No, I’m not crying!” But that never happened to you earlier in your life? No, I’m crying more and more as I get older. But I’ve heard that’s a common thing. You know what else, if I’m gonna be blunt, I took a lot of LSD. I really did. I loved it. I only did it for a couple years when I was in my twenties, but I did it a lot. And the one thing it gives you are these two questions, what if and why not? Mm. So I think I’m a romantic, but I always poke holes in everything. I just can’t help it. You’ve always been one to kind of call bullshit, though. There was a time when you were watching a preacher give a speech as a kid and you said that that was the first time that you saw bad acting. Oh, man, you have your research. Yeah. Yeah. I was young enough that I was still sleeping most of the sermon on my mom’s lap, this pastor was giving his homily and I thought, “I don’t know what he’s talking about, but he doesn’t mean it.” “He’s making this up, he’s singing it.” Do you think you’re able to suss that out in people in life, not just in acting and performance? I heard this great discussion interview and they said, “It’s a weird thing you do. I mean, you lie for a living.” No, an actor’s job is to tell the truth. One of the things you gotta do as an actor is when you come up with your performance and you are pretty sure you know what it is, it’s really good every once in a while you go “Wait a minute.” And get a 10,000 foot look at it and go, “Is this true? Do I believe this?” If it’s a good script, usually you go, “Yeah, I believe it.” But every once in a while you go, “No, I don’t.” How often have you reached that sublime territory and is that the feeling that you’re always chasing, not only in your acting career, but sort of in life, getting into that kind of flow state where it just feels like it’s natural and ordained? They talk about this, all actors talk about it, The Muse. Have you ever been visited? And some don’t know what you’re talking about. Like, that’s what the LSDs for man. Yeah. I have been visited by The Muse two times. One time it was at Lincoln Center, Felicity was in the play and it was a play called, “Oh, Hell.” And it was really funny. I got this weird feeling one could have mistaked it to be passing out. You know, it was just… And I saw myself acting. I sort of stepped out and I was watching myself do it. I’m talking, talking away! But a part of me stepped out, and I had enough sense to go, “Don’t mess with this. Let him go.” No way. And it didn’t last long, but it was a weird thing. After the play, everyone came up and said, “Dude, you were on fire. You were in the zone. That was amazing!” And I thought, “Jesus, that’s what they talk about The Muse.” I think a lot of actors have it, and I know athletes have it too. Yeah. When just something descends and your consciousness, and your body are doing two different things and you’re just watching yourself do it. You’ve done so much in your career. You all say that you married well, you have a wonderful family. What do you have to do for the rest of your life that would make you feel like you lived a full life? Or if you’ve completed it, you’re done, everything now is an extra time. I’d like to just keep going. My life is full. And you know, they play that game. “What would you say to your 16-year-old self?” I’d say, “Oh, dude, you’re the luckiest guy in the world!” Keep going! Yeah. Do that. Let’s eat. Let David Mamet eat the cheese outta your fridge. Just keep going! That’s a great story! Yeah. I’m still ambitious. I still wanna work. “Train Dreams” was great. That was a really nice role. Boy, when those roles come along where it’s just sublime writing, in a sublime story, that was a fabulous experience. What do you think happens when you die? I think you decompose. I’m pretty sure that happens. That’s it, though. Nothing more. There’s no percentage in thinking about that stuff. I think if you’ve got something you wanna say, say it now. If you’ve got something you want to do, do it now. I understand religion, every culture’s had it. A lot of people get a lot of comfort from it. But I find things as they are, without the supernatural, I find them miraculous. Which might be oxymoronic, but this is an astounding planet, and we’re astounding people. Can you imagine, while I’m older than you, but if you had told me that I would have this thing the size of a pack of cigarettes that I could launch a satellite with, I would’ve gone, “You’re outta your mind.” That I could go anywhere on the planet and call somebody up. Yeah. That I would have a satellite at my deck and call. I would go, “You’re smoking too much of that stuff, man.” Hey man, if you could have told me while I was eight years old watching “Mystery Men” that I was gonna be drinking rye whiskey with the shoveler, I would’ve said, “Get the outta here.” You were eight years old, huh? Ah, shit. Well, hey, drink up. Ready to move on the lightning round? Yes. Are these Frank Gallagher quotes or are these drunk tweets? First one, “Alcohol is like a pushup bra for your personality.” I hope Frank said that. I think that’s a drunk tweet. That is a drunk tweet. “I call this beer, milk of the Gods.” That’s Frank. That is Frank. “Teeth are really just bones that you can lick.” That’s a drunken tweet. It’s a drunken tweet! He’s three for three. Let’s see if he can go four for four. “Love is not supposed to be cute. Love is supposed to be raw and destructive.” Time’s up. I don’t think Frank said that, I’m gonna call that a drunken tweet. Frank did indeed say that. He did? I love Frank Gallagher so much. Who’s the one person dead or alive you’d want to share your actual last meal with? I don’t speak Italian. Michelangelo would be good, though. Abraham Lincoln? Alfred E. Newman. Well, he’s fictitious. We will allow fictitious characters. But Alfred E. Newman, The Mad Magazine. Yeah. Caricature. Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah, I loved his attitude. I loved his philosophy. Man, you did do a lot of LSD. What song do you wanna be played at your funeral? Mine, play my music. I’ve written a lot of songs, you could play mine. It’ll keep the funeral nice and short, and you don’t have to worry about overcrowding the church as long as my music is playing. Love that. Will you reprise your role as the Shoveler if asked to be in the Marvel Cinematic universe? In a New York minute. Hell, yeah. Who’s your dream eulogize at your funeral? Howard Carter. He’s a writer. What was your favorite “Curious George” episode that you narrated? Okay, here’s a dirty secret. Please. I only did the first season of that. They got a guy that sounded just like me. So everyone says they’ve watched me for years and years and I go, “Thank you.” What’s your biggest fear? I got thousands of little ones. But as we talked about, I don’t like to think about that. Yeah. That was my mother’s phrase. Finally, Bill, are you happy? Oh, ecstatic. I love my life. You seem- I complain a little bit every once in a while and I always look up and I go, “I’m just kidding.” Well, I’m incredibly happy that I got to share this meal. Thank you, brother. This is fabulous. Awesome, man. Yeah. Like, truly. And I mean the rye, everything you’re doing, it’s like you’re taking on all the best side quests in the world and crushing them. Can we do this again? We don’t need all these guys, but would you cook? I’d love it! Sounds like you have an empty house right now. I’m gonna come over man. I got you. I know! I know. I’m gonna go out and buy some gruel for my dinner tonight. Let me come over and cook some gruel. Okay. Oh, hey, I forgot. If you wanna deliver your last words to that camera right there. Yeah. I have many talents, but cooking is not one of them. But acting is! Everyone, check out “The Running Man”, check out “Train Dreams”, “Soul on Fire”. You have so many projects, it’s hard to even pick which ones to tell ’em to watch. I know. You’d think I’d be richer. Yeah, well. We’re about to see, I’m going over his house to cook dinner. I’ll give you a report. I’m looking through his garbage can with tax returns. Good. Cheers, man. Thanks. This has been swell. Thank you. I appreciate… The most Midwestern compliment. Swell. We all gotta eat, and we know you’re dying to get your hands on a Last Meal’s apron and pen. Get yours now at mythical.com.