You play any Sea of Thieves? Actually, okay, Sea of Thieves is one of those games- Sea of Thieves nuts fit in your mouth. That did not just happen to me. Oh, yeah, welcome to Trevor Talks Too Much, the show where I bring on a guest and I talk to them and I can see if maybe we can become friends, become homies, maybe talk again sometime. I’m your host Trevor Evarts, master baker, Mythical soft boy, two-time Oscar winning director. Don’t fact check me on that. Today I spoke with Sigils who is, what? You shook your head, Jamie. You don’t believe me? Look it up. Oh no, I’m not gonna fact check. Today I spoke with Sigils. He’s a YouTuber. He’s a gamer. He mainly plays Minecraft, but he also does a lot of other stuff and we talked about all sort, we talked about so much stuff I didn’t wanna stop talking, okay? That’s no joke. It was a great conversation. We talked about sea shanties. We talked about Minecraft. We talked about white water rafting. We talked about ourselves and our feelings, and we got to know each other a little bit better. This is the part of the show where I go into a little rant. Little silly little thing, tell a story or something. And for the first time, forever and ever, for the first time ever I got nothing. I’m shocked. Jamie, I have nothing. I feel like you talked so much to Sigils that you just got depleted. You know what it is, Jamie? I’ve been playing a lot of RuneScape recently. Oh God. No, no, no, we’re getting into the show I have nothing to talk about. We’re gonna go into the interview now. I’m like almost, I’m grinding level 99, grinding. No. Jamie, let me talk about the things that I like. You talk about it in the episode. I like RuneScape. Am I not allowed to like things? You can like it. I’m sorry, we can get into the show. Now I feel bad. No, it’s okay, you’re right. People don’t care about RuneScape. Okay everyone, it’s a great episode. It really is. It is. It’s a great episode. We had a lot of fun. He’s a great guy. So, I’m not gonna talk about RuneScape anymore, except when I do. which will happen, but have fun and enjoy. Do you do that, just go on the internet and farm it for views? No, I would never, I would never try and make money on the internet. I guess I’ll introduce the guest to everybody. Welcome Sigils also known as Andrew, and you are a Minecraft slash variety, do lots of different stuff, gaming YouTuber. Yeah, that’s exactly what I say when people ask me. I’m like, “Uh, Minecraft and other stuff I guess, yeah? Don’t you hate it when you like confine yourself to that box, and then you do one thing that’s not that and people are like, “What the hell? “What have you done? “This isn’t what I wanna see”. “You’ve changed.” You’re like, “I don’t know I was bored today. “I’m sorry”. Yeah, I’ve got some friends, there’s not a game worse. I know Jamie we’re only like a minute into this, but I’m already gonna talk about RuneScape. I’ve got some friends that are RuneScape YouTubers, and the RuneScape community when a RuneScape YouTuber does something that isn’t RuneScape, it’s like it’s a personal attack. Yeah. They’re like, “What? “This isn’t RuneScape, “the most dynamic and entertaining game of all time.” I’m scared of the RuneScape community, so no comment at this time. I don’t know him. I just walked in here now. The RuneScape community’s fine. They’re good people. It’s actually like not a bad community. There’s a few sketchy people. I know the truth. You know the truth? Yeah, what’s the truth. I actually know a lot of Minecrafters who came from RuneScape. Really? So I guess it’s like a logical progression when you were 12 playing RuneScape and then Minecraft came out, but I don’t know very many people who stayed in RuneScape. That’s a decision. Well, there’s an old saying amongst the RuneScape community that you never really quit RuneScape, you just take long breaks. And literally that’s what everyone says. Same for me. I stopped playing for like five years and then eventually one day I was like, “I think it’s time to return.” You woke up and just had the itch. And you were just like, “Oh”. Yeah, I was like, “Oh, I wanna get on RuneScape”. No, also Jamie’s gonna get mad at me if I don’t say this, but the goal, Yeah, she’s mad at me already. You can see her head’s in her hand. Are you okay? Blink once if you need help. He didn’t blink, all right we’re good. We’re good, everything’s fine. The funny thing is, is the abuse is normally thrown at me. No. No, so the goal of the show, we just talk. That’s the whole show, the idea, but in ideal world by the end of it we would be friends. Oh, okay. So that’s kind of the goal. So if not, then I’ve failed and Jamie’s failed and you’re allowed to punch us before you leave if we’ve disgraced you and dishonored you and you hate us by the end, but that hasn’t happened yet thankfully. So you’re saying I’d be the first. You would be the first, yeah. I have had one person try to kiss me. That’s kind of the other end. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That one was a really good one. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, back to RuneScape. So here’s the thing about RuneScape, is that it’s amazing. As I was saying. Yeah, as I was saying. Welcome to the RuneScape podcast. I’m your host Trevor, and Jamie’s screaming inside right now. So, when you’re playing RuneScape, like when you start up a new character, what’s the first thing you go for 99 on? What’s your min-max path to like really optimizing? Well, here’s the thing. There’s optimizing and then there’s being a GigaChad. Okay. The optimizing is that as soon as you start the game you go do Wintertodt, the level 99 fire making. Okay. Because it’s a mini game that is easiest, like it’s super easy to do with low hit points ’cause you take damage during it, but the damage scales off of how high your HP is. So when you’re at low HP, you barely take any damage. That’s optimized. The GigaChad way to go is to get 99 fishing, which is like one of the longest skills to train and it’s terrible and the XP rates are awful. But it’s just like if you have 99 fishing in RuneScape, you’re like cool. Anyway, Jamie’s really gonna get mad at me. We’ve gotta stop. I thought about hijacking this, and you’re just like running. And I was like, “They’ll never have me back.” Yeah. “We had Sigils on and he just made him talk about RuneScape for an hour and a half”. I’ll do it. I swear to God, I’ll do it. I’ll do it. We can do it right now. I sensed it I was like, “Oh, we could freight train this off into a real bad direction.” No, it would be terrible. I was like, “All right, I’m not gonna do it. I’m not gonna do it.” Oh, man. It’s my parents’ fault, okay? It’s my parents’ fault ’cause I used to play RuneScape as a kid with my family. My dad started playing RuneScape ’cause he had a job where he was like on conference calls a lot. And what he would do is he’d be on a conference call, and then he’d just be playing RuneScape. And then he had super high stats and then he got me into it when I was like seven. Oh, get ’em early. Yeah, get ’em early. I remember actually, okay, this is the last RuneScape story before we move on. I don’t believe you. I don’t believe you. Wholeheartedly, I don’t believe you. I swear to God Andrew, shut up. This is my show I say what I want. Is it? It feels like it’s RuneScape’s show. We’re just living in it. No, so when I was young and I played RuneScape, I wasn’t allowed to know my own password because my parents were like, they didn’t want me always on it. And so when I was a kid on the weekends I would get up like really early in the morning. It was like when I was a kid and you just wake up at like 5:30 in the morning on the weekends. And so like every Saturday morning I would go and I’d wake up super early and be like, “It’s RuneScape time.” And I’d go and like wake up my parents in bed and whisper and be like, “Can you enter in my RuneScape password?” And then eventually my dad just gave me the password ’cause he’s like I’m tired of getting woken up at 6:00 AM on Saturday by my dumb kid wanting to play RuneScape. Are we the same person? Are we? So, I used to do that, but this was like back in the dial-up days, like probably around the same age for me. Yeah. My family only had one phone line. So if you were on the internet, the phones wouldn’t work, right? So I would wake up at 5:30 every Saturday to play Age of Empires two online with my friends because that was the only time I was allowed to monopolize the phone system. ‘Cause at like 10:00 AM they were like, “All right, we need people to be able to call.” ‘Cause I guess people called you back then? I don’t know, It’s weird. But yes, so I identify with this. Yeah, it was a real thing and then I’d just sit there and I grind out RuneScape in the office by myself for like four hours, three hours, four hours till my parents woke up. Then they’d hop on, and we’d start doing some bossing together, doing whatever. We have a little RuneScape family day in the living room. You know what they say? The family that runes together scapes together. Actually. I swear to God, if they actually say that. No, it’s funny. No, ’cause there’s a skill in RuneScape called Slayer, and my dad had like, that was his favorite skill and he had 99 Slayer and we would always say, “A family that slays together stays together.” Aw, that’s cute. Dang it, I almost found it. I almost found it. Yeah, it was close. You were so close. I was like, “If he says it, this is gonna be weird.” Podcast is over. He starts crying and just leaves. Get out. Core memory unlocked. Oh my God. Well let’s get into a different game, Minecraft. Basically just the next version of it, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the next. We’ve evolved now into the Minecraft podcast. So the majority of your content is Minecraft, right? Yeah because Minecraft, making content with games, you have to pick something that’s really got longevity. Yeah, yeah. Minecraft’s eternal, right? Everyone’s playing that like the Legos of our generation. Like they’re gonna be playing Minecraft. Every kid who like turns seven, their parents like, “Have you heard of Minecraft?” And then off they go. And so stuff’s still being made for it. There’s just so much you can do. Other other games are so linear and they’re really fun, but people aren’t really watching or it’s hard to build a community around. I play different games. Yeah, I play different games or I play one game that like, unless you’re really good, I’ve noticed that the really successful people that play like shooter games, it’s only if you’re like really craft at it. If you’re pro. If you’re like nuts. I tried to do that first. Yeah. I tried to play video games professionally. What game? Call of Duty and Halo. I used to go to like the tournaments and stuff. And then, but at the time, the top teams in the world were making like 500 bucks a month. That was their salary. They’re like, “Bro,” Oh my God. like, “I’m signed to an org “and they’re paying me 500 bucks a month.” And I was like counting on my fingers and was like, in this many years I’m gonna be too old to do this, and also that’s not enough money to pay my rent.” Yeah. And I was like, “Well, those people “are trying funny on the internet. Let’s do that one instead.” Let’s do that one. Yeah, funny on the internet. Make a fool of yourself. Every moment of my life. No, Minecraft really is. I mean, it’s one of those games that I feel like you just keep going back to, and it’s just so refillable and it’s like the perfect Sandbox game, ’cause you can do anything and there’s so many different ways of playing the game, and there’s no right way to play the game, you know? Oh there’s a right way. Oh, okay. Oh, There’s a right way. Oh, actually, no, no, no, you know what? There’s a wrong way to play Minecraft, that’s what it is. Yeah, what’s the wrong way? If you dig straight down, dude. Come on, everybody knows that. Oh, okay. What if you’re going for fastest death speedrun in lava? Well, there’s still faster ways to die to lava than that. What about exposed lava? You go to like a mountain biome, there’s always just a lava fall. You don’t have to do any digging. Yeah, but what if you’re freaking spawn isn’t good for, you just find a new seed? Are you just gonna redo seeds until you get a nice exposed lava? I mean, maybe if that’s, I mean. That’s probably the right way to do it. That’s the speedrun. I’m sorry. What about the speedrun for the fastest death from digging straight down? Okay. Got you. Yes, well done. I bet that’s a category. For sure it is. It’s definitely a category. You’re right, I take it back. There’s no wrong way to play Minecraft. It’s like 45 seconds. You’ve ruined everything. You just gotta get a shovel and a pickaxe and just go for it. God no, Minecraft’s great. I remember growing up and Minecraft was very much liken it’s, I remember kind of being introduced to Minecraft when it was still in its early days. Like my friends when we were kind of in probably like elementary junior high, just kind of being. Yeah, me too. Being like, “There’s this new game called Minecraft,” or not this new game, but like, “We’ve been playing this game called Minecraft.” And I remember getting it on my phone for the first time too and I would like play in car rides, but it really is, you can still, I’ve never gotten tired of it. I take breaks from it obviously. I’m not playing it every day ’cause I don’t do it for content, so there’s. Yeah, must be nice. But my friends and I almost every year we’ll get on like a kick where we’re like, “Let’s start up realm. “Let’s do it”. And then we play religiously for like a month, just every day. Like after work we get on and we grind just for hours and hours. And then we kind of all fade out, and it’s like, “Oh, that was fun.” And then next year we’re back to it, yeah. There’s nothing also like the first time playing Minecraft. Like it just captured the expanse of like endless possibilities and the fun of exploring. And once you kind of understand it all it’s a different game, right? And it’s still fun, but I still remember that first time playing where it was the same thing. I had some coworkers who were like, “Yo, have you heard about this Minecraft game?” And I watched a video, and this is what ruined my life, right? This is the moment was I watched this video of somebody playing the Alpha of Minecraft, and he was trying to show you how to build a cool looking fireplace in Minecraft. And he built this whole house out of wood and he misclicked the fireplace and he lit his house on fire, and the entire house burnt down. And he was just this nerdy, old, British dude being like, “Oh no, oh no.” As his house just burned. And at the end of the video this house that he had built is just gone, and he doesn’t know what to do. And I was like, “I wanna play a game like that. “That looks awesome.” And I went home and I downloaded it. And I remember it was like nine at night and I was like, “All right, “I’ll check this game out before work tomorrow” and the next thing I knew it was 4:00 AM, and I was like, “Huh? “What just happened? “Where did I just go?” And then my life was ruined. Here we are. Well, I’m sorry for ruining your life by you being on the podcast. Well yeah, this is the bottom, right? Yeah, this is the bottom. You’ve reached the bottom. I blame that for this. Oh, man. I feel like everyone’s been there though. Not every kid’s like, “Oh, I wanna put a fireplace “in my house that I just built”, not understanding the mechanics. And they’re like, “Ooh, I’m just gonna like “light this here and it’s gonna look so cool.” And then you leave to go cut a tree and you come back and your house is gone and you’re like, “What happened? All my work!” Yep, but also games had not been that flexible before then. So it was kind of like the thing you always dreamed that somebody would make a game like that, and then to see it actually happen, you’re like, “Oh, it’s the future now.” Yeah. “I’m here.” Now, if a game isn’t that flexible, you’re like, “This game sucks.” “I’m gonna go play Fortnite.” Yeah. Or whatever. Fortnite is freaking, did they take away no-build mode? No, it’s still there. Are you kidding? Oh, it’s still there? Thank God. It was like the breath of life. Yeah, the game was dead until they brought. What game do you think you would, like if you picked another game, if you couldn’t play Minecraft anymore, if your channel wasn’t mostly Minecraft, what game do you think you would play a lot of? I think, well, so actually. I mean, I’ve done Minecraft for a very long time, but where I first got momentum was in Fortnite. Oh really? And my group of friends, we did the Fortnite creative mode, where you build your own games inside of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Kind of with the same premise, right? It’s like Sandbox. You can make an endless amount of content just given the tools. So I think that would be where I would have to go, ’cause for the way that me and my friends like to play is we like to make challenges and play against each other. Do these kind of endless things, and it was a ton of fun. I actually really enjoyed it. But I remember we were playing the early seasons of Fortnite and it was like people started leveling up building. And I remember distinctively having the thought that’s like, “Oh, this game’s not gonna be fun in about two months.” And then people were just building the Eiffel tower in like a second, and I was like, “No, I’m good.” Oh God. So then we went back to Minecraft. Yeah, no it’s so funny ’cause I played a ton of PUBG when PUBG first came out, when it was a good game. And I had like hundreds of hours in that and I loved it. And then Fortnite started getting popular and I could not play it ’cause I was like, “This is the worst mechanic ever. Why would they make building a thing? This is so cringe. My aim is so much better than these dumb kids, and they’re just building freaking Fort Knox in two seconds and they’re just out building circles around me. I’m just standing on the ground trying to figure out where the hell they are so I can shoot them.” And I hated it and I never played it. And then PUBG got really bad ’cause the devs were awful. Welcome to the hot takes podcast. Actually, that’s not a hot take at all. That’s a pretty universally agreed upon opinion. Devs are terrible and don’t know what makes a good game, and they ruined the game. And then I was like, “Well, I don’t wanna play this. I don’t wanna play Fortnite, and those were like the two BRs at the time, and then Apex came out. And then I was like, “You know, maybe I just am tired of the Battle Royale genre.” And then I dumped my life into Rainbow Six Siege, which is also now a dead game. Yeah, and also that’s a choice. You’re like, “Hmm, you know what I’d like with my community? “A little bit of salt.” Yeah, The Rainbow Six, that– “My sodium levels are too low.” Dude, that was the first real online shooter, like FPS shooter that I played a lot of on PC, and I was like so bad when I first started, but I grinded that game. I had a well over a thousand hours and I got pretty good. And then I played it for so much and I got good and then it was like I just needed to get there so that I could quit. It’s like the whole time I wanted to stop playing the game, but I was like, “If you don’t achieve something in this game then you’re gonna hate yourself for wasting all this time. And then I like achieved Plat one, which at the time was just a couple ranks back from the highest rank you can get. And I was like, “I’m good. “I can be at peace now. “I can hang up the old Rainbow sticks.” Hang up sticks. Yep and I can go back to playing League of Legends. Oh, yeah, something new and different. Do you hate yourself? What is this? I do. I do, I do, I do hate myself. I mean, we could talk about that if you want, but. No, I have a terrible choice in video games. I play the worst games ever. Does this translate to relationships as well? Like is there a correlation here? No, actually. Great, okay, well that’s good. No, yeah. ‘Cause I’m bad at both, so that’s, you know. That might be honestly what it is, is everything else in my life is pretty positive. I have pretty positive relationships with all my friends, with my girlfriend, so maybe it’s just like I just need a little bit of toxicity in my life. Must be nice. Just to like spice it up. So I play terrible video games online. Oh, okay, sorry I didn’t know your life was rainbows and puppies. I regret asking. Yeah, yeah, no, you should. My life rocks. Suck it! Go back to Minecraft, Fortnite, Among Us. Oh, you’re just naming everything that’s ever hurt me. Oh man, what’s it like being on the, ’cause would you say that you play a lot of Minecraft, but you also do your best to follow gaming trends that are going on? Yeah. What’s that like? Like are you ever in a space where you feel like you’re waiting for the next thing? Like, “What’s gonna be the next game?” Do you feel anxious about what it is, and then if it does hit then you’re like, “I need to get on this as quick as possible?” You’re describing currently. You’re describing this moment right now that we’re living in. Yeah, I mean, the pandemic was crazy, right? Because everybody went home and so everybody kinda rediscovered this love of gaming. But also it really slowed down game production. We haven’t had anything come out. Yeah, a lot of things. I mean a lot of, yeah, but we haven’t had that thing. And also I think I truly believe that the games that are that thing are an accident every single time. Fortnite was supposed to be a tech demo that they literally made in-house, and they’re like, “This is kind of fun. We should put it out.” And then it exploded. Minecraft, that dude had no, like the story of how Minecraft got made is crazy. He was literally refused. He did not get hired at every single major game dev. They were all like, “You don’t know how to code. “You’re self taught. “You’re a loser.” And he lived in his parents’ basement and made a video game that turned him into a billionaire. Like that’s not how life works. Among Us, same thing. Game had been out for three years. It was made by three guys and everyone was like, “Oh, this game now.” So there’s this combo of you can’t predict the next big game, the next true huge one, but right now everybody’s tired of Fortnite. Everybody’s tired of Among Us. And everybody’s like, they’re going through that lull of Minecraft, which is like, “We’ve played it. “We’re chilling. “Next year we’ll be back.” Minecraft does that. It goes like, “Oh, Minecraft!” And everybody goes, “Eh, Minecraft. “Yeah, sure.” “Oh, Minecraft” So we’re at the bottom of that right now and there isn’t the new thing that’s popped out. So it’s very much like, “Hey, it’d be cool “if somebody came out with a game “that we were all excited about. “‘Cause my career is dependent on it. “That’d be super nice if somebody could just do that.” Oh my God, yeah, I can’t imagine. I remember my friend, probably like six months before Among Us got really popular and like blew up. I remember my friend, I was asking him what he was playing, and he’s like, “I’m playing a game called Among Us.” And I was like, “What?” He’s like, “Yeah, you’re like little space guys, and you walk around and then there’s an imposter.” And I was like, “Dude, that sounds awful. “What are you describing to me? “Like, that’s a what?” I was like, “What is this? “That sounds so bad.” And then literally six months later I was like, “Oh my God, “I remember Alex telling me about this “and now it’s the biggest game ever.” The pitch for Among Us is terrible. Right? Just objectively if you have no concept, you’re like, “Yeah, man, “you’re on a ship and you have to do tasks, “but they don’t really do anything. “But while you do ’em, somebody kills you, “but like maybe I don’t know, “and then you can decide who it is.” Yeah, it’s just like if you took the game Werewolf, and then you made it into a video game that had really terrible UI. And also there’s no cool abilities or anything. It’s just like stuff happens, yeah. And you’re like, “What? “Why would I ever?” And then you played like a hundred games in a row, yeah. Yeah, oh, man. We sure did. We sure did. I still play some, so it’s. I’ve kind of been wanting it to come back kind of. ‘Cause I know, That would be fun. I know it’s been like coming around, some people still play it and stuff, but I was like, I feel like it got burnt out so fast. Because it was. Everybody was sitting at home. Nothing was going on. Everybody was at their computers, and they just had hours to kill. And then everybody finds this, what is it? What was it like $5? Yeah. Is that how much the game cost? Yeah, something like that. It was like, There’s this $5 game on Steam that’s just like you can just yell at your friends for five hours straight and it’s the best time ever. And so everybody’s like, “I’m doing it every single day.” And then we played it like every night and it does get tiring, you know. When you have 10 people in a Discord call yelling at each other every night, you get to the point where you’re like, “I need to do something else. Yeah, I get it. I’m too stressed. I’ve been lying to all of you for a week. Yeah. I’m gaslighting my friends and my girlfriend hates me because I said, “If you vote me then you don’t love me.” And she didn’t vote me and I was the imposter. And now she’s mad at me because I freaking gaslit her just to win a stupid game. And yeah, you gotta take a break. But I think if it came back in moderation it would be fun. Like if once every couple weeks, me and the boys just got on for a little Among us. Lie to each other, like boys do, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like the boys do, I’d be down for that, you know? Nothing like a little dishonesty, you know? Yeah, I’m curious what the next game will be though. I feel like it’s been fluctuating a lot. For a while it was like BRs, it was like the next BR, but I feel like that’s not, people are kinda tired of ’em. I agree. I think it’s gonna be, it has to be something that’s open. It has to be something that’s flexible and it has to be something that kind of lets you use your imagination to some degree. I mean, ’cause like even Fortnite, Fortnite was so different that you still used your imagination even though it was Battle Royale. So I think that something like that in that space, but it’ll be something that sort of re-imagines, I think the concepts we’re used to. But in probably usually a very simple but charming way, and then everyone will be like, “Whoa!” And then you dive into it. And it also has to have the tools for the community to kind of take it and run with it, that user-generated content stuff. That’s where you’re like, pushes things to that next level. For sure. Yeah, I’m excited for whatever it is ’cause right now I just play Valorant and League every night. And it’s really good for my mental health, really good. Well, we’ve covered everything else is great. So you’re fine. No, it’s funny. I blame actually my friend Brandon. Brandon, I know you don’t listen to the show. Brandon. ‘Cause you’re literally a hater. ‘Cause Brandon’s told me, he’s like, “I’m not gonna listen until you get xQc on. I was like, “Dude, xQc is, of all people in the world to nail down, he’s the worst. My roommate’s his agent actually. Really? Yeah. Oh, that’s cool. So maybe for you he’s not the hardest person to nail down. I mean, I’m just saying I know a guy if you want. No, he was supposed to be the first guest on the show. No way. And then he just flaked, and it never happened. Oh, no. I don’t know. And Brandon, can you just support me for once please? Yeah, Brandon. Anyway Brandon, when I was a freaking freshman in high school, is when he is like, “Hey, you should get this game. “Me and Kevin have been playing it.” Frick you, Kevin, “Me and Kevin have been playing it. It’s called League of Legends.” Oh. And I was like, “What is that?” And I had no idea. I’d never played a MOBA before. And they were like, “There’s this character called Teemo, “and you put down little mushrooms.” And I was like, “What?” And this is when I was playing a lot of Minecraft. And you know when you don’t know what something is so you take the thing that you relate it to most and you create that in your head? So then I’m imagining a Minecraft style, first-person game where somebody’s running around throwing, this little guy’s running around throwing mushrooms, and then I download League of Legends, and here I am seven years later and I hate myself. Okay, we’re getting a lot of mixed messages because you’re like, “Everything’s great. “I love myself.” But also you hate yourself. No, everything’s great, but I hate myself. Oh, okay. I could vibe with that. That’s fine. The self hatred is, that’s not a new thing. And that’s not a League of Legends thing. Really? We could blame League of Legends. We could, but that would be disingenuous. Kevin? And Kevin. Kevin. Kevin’s the big one. Kevin, listen, I called Kevin a dingus or a bungus on one episode. I don’t remember who it was with, but then after that I said, I was like, “It doesn’t matter ’cause he doesn’t listen to the show.” And then he sent me a video him, of me saying that, saying “Kevin is a bungus, “frick you, Kevin.” And then he’s like, “What did you say? I don’t listen?” And I was like, “Ah, Kev-dog. I’m sorry.” It was a different Kevin, you wouldn’t know him. Yeah, no. You don’t know the guy. Yeah, you wouldn’t know him. Yeah, different guy. He goes to a different school. Oh, man. You were a director of game design at Mineplex. Is that true? Okay, who’s been researching? Yes, yeah. Jamie. Jamie. Jamie, that’s the one. She researches. I read sometimes. I’m good at reading. I’m good at reading. I was. Yes that’s true, guilty. Dude, I remember. Sorry, Jamie. Oh, it’s fine. No, Jamie, I saw you giving me the side eye. No, I was. I saw you giving me the side eye. Welcome back to the podcast. Look, anyway. I’m just trying to be the most unhinged guest who’s been on. You are, I would say that you’re close, but you’re not. Yeah, that’s. We had someone really unhinged. You’d have to do some crazy stuff, but you’ve been a lot of fun so far. I think, Yeah. I think we’re on the right track here to becoming friends, yeah? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Listen, it’s only 24 minutes in. Don’t spoil the ending. I’m sorry, I said we’re on the right track. Who knows? Who knows what could happen? Why are you looking at me like that, Jamie? Oh my God, I’m supposed to be, I’m spectating. I’m producing. I’m listening. Yeah, but you were giving me a look. I was also gonna say that out of all of the times that Trevor has talked about RuneScape, this has been the most entertaining. Really? Yeah. I can talk about it more, if you want. No. But I’m just saying that, It’s funny, because I was actually Goddammit. thinking about talking about RuneScape earlier, but then in my head I was like, “No, I got it all outta the way. I ruined it. I got myself here. No, it was gonna be related to something that we were talking about earlier, but that moment’s passed. So I’m not gonna say it. Anyway, I remember playing Mineplex back in the day. Did you? Yeah. Sorry. No, no, no. I’m kidding, I’m kidding. It was a lot of fun. My friends and I used to play so much Bed Wars and Survival Games, Survive? What was it called again? Uh, Hunger Games? Was it called Hunger Games, or was it called Survival Games? It was called Survival Games on Mineplex, but then like. But it was Hunger Games. On Minecraft, they called it like Hunger Games. That was the general term for it, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I couldn’t remember the technical term. We didn’t believe in copyright infringement so, you know. Well, that’s your bad. But I think Survival Games was my favorite. That was one of the big ones, for sure. Yeah, I remember that the sweet taste of victory and the first win. Sweet taste of victory. The sweet taste of victory when you get your first win and you’re just like, wow, this is you get that. Oh man, you get that nice chest. Get that great start. You find some good loot. Like literally the beginning of BR’s. Truly yeah, BR’s were born in Minecraft. Yeah. Well that and the movie Battle Royal, but you know. As far as like the video game current trend. Yeah, it is. Our fault. Your fault. I participated, I helped. Yeah, yeah, frick you. Sorry, sorry everyone. So what did you director of game design? What did you do? So basically for a couple years any content that came out went through me. Initially when I started I was just like a project manager, but it was basically like I would design like the next mini game that we made or an update to something. I was just in charge of, you know, how do we balance? What are we doing with it? Are we changing things? Are we adding things? All of that went through me and then over time I kept getting promoted until the entire department went through me. So every single piece of content that went out. I was usually usually writing like the design documents of like, okay, we’re gonna make, we made like the, I dunno if you ever played the gladiators mini game, that was like the little tournaments. It was like one V one tournaments and you would start in different little arenas and then when you won it would like advance you. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was like, I forget what it was 16 or eight or 12 players or whatever, and then the one man standing at the end kind of thing. Like that was one of the first projects I did for them, and it was like, we came up with that whole system to do like the automatic matchmaking and to put you all in. So it was sort of like game design and then also project management to actually then get it made and then developers would make it and me and like some of the people on my team, staff, team? We would play and then we would say, “Okay change this, change this, change this and that kind of stuff. That’s sweet. It was really fun. If you ever played Mineplex you have Andrew here to thank for hours of enjoyment. Me and my friends have you to thank for hours of enjoyment playing Minecraft. DayZ. Oh my God I forgot about DayZ. Dude, I saw Shroud was playing DayZ recently. That’s how you know we’re bored. Shroud’s playing DayZ. Yeah, I was like, I watched, I was like, “What year is it?” Hello? I was like, “Is it freaking 2016? “Why is Shroud playing DayZ?” He’s just running around clapping kids right in the freaking noggin. Imagine you’re playing like a survival game, right? It’s an old survival game nobody plays anymore. You’re into it. You and your friends are on the server, and then just the God of gaming casually walks through. He’s like floating six inches off the ground and just strikes you all down and then keeps going. That must suck. Dude, that would suck in any game. I just imagine myself like, ’cause the way that Shroud just picks up a game, never played it before, and it’s just still insanely cracked. Like I just can’t imagine getting onto a game, like going like, “Oh, I’m gonna have some fun with my friends” and then you just get matched up against Shroud. That’s gotta be so demoralizing or like anyone in a Twitch Rivals tournament that’s against Shroud. You’re just like, well. Cool, sweet. Round one it is. Yeah, all right, awesome. Have you played any Bloodhunt? No, I’ve watched him play a little bit though. Dude, there was a tournament, a Twitch Rivals tournament for it or something and like the game’s been out for like two weeks when it happened and dude just drops like 40 kills in a match in a game. Like how does that even? He’s like, “I take the cursor. “I click on his head, I win.” I don’t know what the problem is guys, just do that. Yeah, that’s what I say anytime someone asks me, like if someone’s getting frustrated at Valorant or any other shooter, just click on their heads. It’s that simple. Just click on their heads. I’ve watched Shroud. You just do it. I don’t know what the problem is. Speaking of Shroud, I had a very surreal experience once, which is I was getting an Uber in Phoenix of all places and the dude asked me what I did, I told him I did like YouTube and stuff and he’s like, he gets quiet for a second. And he’s like, “Yeah, I used to play competitive CS”. And I was like, “Oh, that’s cool”. And he’s like, “Yeah, back in the day”. He’s like, ” I actually used to team with Shroud”, and I was like, “Oh wow”. And he’s like, “Yeah, and then I didn’t really think “there was a future to it so I quit”. And I was like, Oh, huh,” And then he goes, “How much do you think Shroud makes?” And I was like, again, this guy’s driving, like he’s my Uber driver, right? And I was like, “Oh, couple million dollars a month”. And he was like. And then he just didn’t speak for the rest of the ride. I was like, “Oh man, “I’m sorry, dude.” Oh man. Oh, I remember the first time I ever like started just doing some very simple, basic math. Where I was like looking. I was like, okay, if this person has this many subscribers on Twitch and low balling, let’s say they’re getting only $2 and 50 cents from Twitch per subscriber, but if they’re that popular, they’re probably getting more. But if they’re getting $2 and 50 cents times this amount of people per month, not including any donations or any sponsorships or any other sources or any ads, any merch, anything, just from subscribers alone that’s a lot of money. That’s a lot of money. That was like when the Twitch like earnings reports got leaked and everyone was like they’re getting paid? And I was like, “Dude, they have like on their screen. “They’re like, I have 20,000 subscribers. “Our goal is 21,000”. It’s like, what do you think that number is? I don’t, hello? Doesn’t mean you know, exactly, but everyone was like, “I can’t believe it.” Back when the subscriber record kept getting broken, like by people, I feel like there was one year where it just kept getting broken and the record’s like almost a hundred thou, I don’t even know what it was now. I think it’s like close to 200,000 or something. Yeah, it close to 200,000 now. But I remember when it was like people were going, they were like, “Oh my God, I just broke the record. “I got 150,000 subscribers” I was like, even if those people only stay subscribed for a month that’s $300,000 in a month. More than $300,000 in one month. From subscribers alone. Yeah, it’s silly for those big dogs. It’s silly. It’s crazy. Yeah, no, it’s wild to think about. And then it drops off real quick. Yeah, I can’t imagine. Dude, I know a lot, I have like a lot of streamer friends, but I also have a lot of streamer friends that are like, they’re a lot smaller and they like, streaming is their job, but they don’t have those kinds of like crazy numbers and like, I’m very thankful for this job, and I say it all the time on the show that I have a very steady paycheck and Rhett and Link give me a check every month. Every two weeks. Wait, you’re getting paid? every two, yeah, I know shocking right? I was told this is the intern podcast. I gotta. Oh, not the intern jokes again. Again, no Oh no, no. That’s honestly a really long runner from like when I first started here. ‘Cause I think it was like when I first started here, Josh said I give off big intern energy and then everybody thought I was an intern. And so everybody would call me the intern and then Josh was like, he would like tweet. He’s like, “No, Trevor’s not actually an intern. “Like guys, stop calling him an intern”. But now everybody calls me an intern as a joke. I swear to God the email I got asking me to do this show said we gave our intern a podcast. I swear to God. Jamie! I don’t send those emails out. I do not send, we have a company. It’s not me. Yeah, do you need me to step out for just a moment? Could you leave the room for just a second, yeah. I just need a quick five. I was like, “Oh, that’s a cool premise for a show, I guess”. Yeah, I’m pretty much the JHB of Mythical. Ah, okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Except I didn’t actually ever start as an intern. I love James, but that kid, that poor kid, he really got just pigeonholed when he did that character. He did, yes. I’m thankful that he’s full time now and I think he’s one of the most talented people I know at how to get engagement on Twitter and on social media. Like I think he’s a genius when it comes to that . His Twitter game was very strong. Yeah, he just knows how to get, but oh man, just all of the intern stuff for so long, I felt so bad for him sometimes. ‘Cause you sympathized? Yeah, yeah. I mean honestly, yeah. Whether or not you’re actually an intern, always being called an intern or referred to as an intern or treated by fans like an intern. It’s the same thing whether or not you are. That’s true. Are you saying he was an intern on the inside even if he wasn’t an intern on the outside? I’m saying, what? I dunno. Dude, are you high? No. I told you to not get high before you came. Yeah, but you’re an intern so I didn’t listen. I was gonna say something and then you called me an intern. Now we’re like five minutes off course. What was I gonna say? Ah, here’s what I was gonna say, back to the show. No, I couldn’t imagine like being a Twitch streamer and just like it’s so volatile. Obnoxiously so. And just like the idea of having that pressure all the time of that being your income and that being your job, of just to have to look at those numbers. And you have no control. At the end of the day you can stream for eight hours a day and put out really good content and be a really entertaining person, and there’s nothing that you can really do to control whether or not people are clicking on your stream to watch it. And it’s just like to have that, like, oh God. It just makes me sheer and shake. I mean with YouTube, you publish a video and even if it doesn’t do well, it’s always running and it’s always going and you’re always making money on it, people are watching it. But like with Twitch, it’s like you have this time that you stream and that’s when you make money. Yep. And so if you have one stream that like doesn’t do as well, it’s not like, “Okay well,, “it might catch up overnight “or it might catch up over the next week”. It’s like, that was it. That’s it, the end. Yeah, you just have to live with that now and God, that just scares the outta me. I’ve tried to be both and at one point I was trying to do both at the same time. Yeah. And I hit a moment where I had that exact same realization, which was like, my stream never took off. Like I would get like a 100 to 200 viewers, but as my YouTube channel started to take off, it got to the point where my YouTube channel was a small business that was employing multiple people to run and my stream didn’t pay my rent. Yeah. And it was like, “Oh, why am I killing myself “to try to do this?” And I realized that even if I made it like that rat wheel you’re describing, you could never stop. Yeah. And I remember Ninja and Tfue didn’t go to one of the Fortnite tournaments. Yeah. Because they said even if they won they would actually not make as much money as they did by missing the streams they had to miss to be there. And I was like, “Oh, that sucks”. Like you are a prisoner at that point. I have a lot more flexibility by being a YouTuber. I posted a video, it went live like while I was in the car on the way here. You know what I mean? Like I still did my job for today, but I still get to come and do something interesting and like hang out with you guys and do this lovely podcast. Oh, thank you. Yeah, I mean like if you’re making YouTube videos and you’re like, I wanna take a week long vacation. You just like, you gotta work harder. You gotta per week before that, or for a couple weeks before that, but you can bank up those videos, have ’em set to release, and then when you’re gone you don’t have to worry. When streamers talk about taking breaks, it’s like the biggest thing ever. They’re like, “I have to take a break from streaming”. And it could just like completely kill everything because– I will make no money. Yeah, and they’ll make no money. And ah, God. It’s so scary. ‘Cause I remember when I was growing up and when Twitch was getting bigger and streaming was taking off, I was like, “Oh, it’d be so much fun “to be a Twitch streamer. “I would love that. “Like, I’d love to do that someday”. And I was like, unless I have like the job security to go and be able to do that for fun, I just know that I couldn’t handle that mentally. It is such a big thing to take on and it is so much weight on your shoulders. It’s insane. It’s scary, it scary, yeah. That’s actually like the number one thing I say to anybody who asks me about like, they wanna get into content. It’s not even like a platform thing. Like YouTube versus Twitch. I like recommend videos over life. I’m like listen, making VOD is a better life. You will have more time. You will have more control of your schedule. ‘Cause also I have friends, like the other part we haven’t even touched on is you don’t know what time of day your stream might get successful. I’ve had friends who became successful streamers, but their streams were like dejan hours. They stream from 10:00 PM to 6:00 AM, right? Whoa, congratulations. Everything we just described, but also you’re stuck on the night shift forever. Yeah. And when they try to switch to the day it’s like nobody there. Like their audience literally exists in a different time zone. It terrifying. Quitting streaming was the best for my mental health. It’s interesting to see the rise now of like gaming orgs and when in the past, if you were signed to a gaming org, it was you played professionally, and now they’re like all orgs just have content creators. And it’s cool to see that kind of dynamic shift of where like you can get signed to an organization and I don’t know how those contracts work. I’ve never been offered anything like that or had any interest, pursued anything like that. And so I don’t know exactly how they work, but to even have like that kind of security, I feel like it’s a step in the right direction to have organizations like that. ‘Cause I think, I mean you look at a 100 Thieves and they’ve got a ton of streamers, they’ve got whole clothing lines, they’re doing all sorts of stuff. They have a whole production company around them and it’s able to give these streamers a chance to I think not be as stressed. ‘Cause I think if you look at someone that’s in an org versus someone that streams solo, like they don’t have to worry as much about it ’cause they know that no matter what, they’re still gonna have visibility because they’re on an a big org that’s gonna give them visibility. They’re gonna have things like YouTube videos that they’re doing with the organization. I assume they’re getting a paycheck from the organization. I don’t know how it works. Depends. Depends probably. I mean it depends on the size of the org, the size of the creator. Yeah. I would say I agree. Everyone’s better when they come together, right? The rise of groups in general really help. I mean Rhett and Link were a group, right? We’re standing in a thing that’s like the outcome of one of those doing really well. I have a group of friends, we do it. The thing about the eSport orgs is it really, I think in those situations you have to know what you want when you’re going into them because you are giving up a lot of freedom a lot of times. So if you sign to an org, then they’re gonna own your sponsor rights basically. They’re gonna be able to make you not necessarily make you, but like they’re gonna push you in certain directions or they’re gonna want you to do X, Y or Z. And you need to like go in that, with that eyes wide open and be like, I’m not interested in running certain elements of the business maybe or whatever. I’m gonna let this other org do it because for that to work is like they have to make more off of brands and things like then they pay you otherwise it doesn’t work. And also most orgs aren’t profitable. So this is part of the reason they bring in creators is eSports isn’t profitable in general. And so they want creators to like bring in the sponsors. Bring in sponsors. ‘Cause the problem with being really good at video games is a lot of times that’s all you’re really good at and there’s rare exceptions that become superstars like Shroud or something like that, but there’s lots of people who are just kind of boring, but they don’t miss and that’s cool and that’s awesome, but it doesn’t bring in the sponsors. It doesn’t bring in the numbers. It doesn’t do it. So they’re trying to like merge this thing. No, I don’t think anybody’s really figured out yet. No, not at all. And that’s the thing it’s like, it’s always flexible and it’s always changing and I don’t think we’re ever gonna see it get to like a standard. I don’t think at least in the foreseeable future, there’s never gonna be like, “Okay, this place did it right. “Everyone do it that way”. It’s always gonna be flexible. It’s always gonna be changing. And everyone’s always gonna be figuring out new ways to do things, different ways to do things. ‘Cause I think you have to in like the gaming and content creation world, otherwise you don’t succeed. You can’t get stagnant. You always have to be on that next step. What’s your favorite Sea Shanty? Oh, I mean. Let me hit the switch up. Woo, let’s go! I mean obviously it’s the Billy of Tea, come on now. The one that started the whole thing. The Wellerman? The Wellerman, that’s what it is yes. I knew, I was like. Here’s okay. I’m a bit of a Sea Shanty hipster. I had knew that this was the follow up. I was like, “He didn’t ask that because he didn’t have “like a thing ready to go”. No, no, let’s hear it. Let’s hear it. No, I love Sea Shanties and I think that they should be more popular, but I remember like listening to Sea Shanties and I remember when Wellerman got popular. I was like, “Y’all just found out about the longest Johns. “Y’all just found out about the longest Johns? “I’ve been listening to the longest Johns for ages”. They make great music. What a thing to be. Just like a dumb thing to be a hipster about. Like, “Oh, oh, “I’ve been listening to Sea Shanties forever”. Since the 1600’s. I knew this Sea Shanty way before you did bro. My great-great grandfather was singing it on the deck of the Wellerman. Bro, you don’t even know crap about Sea Shanties dude. When the ship they put to sea and the name of the ship with the Billy of tea, My great, great, great grand uncle, on it. He was the ship. True story. Actually can I change my answer? Oh yeah. The one thing with the return of the sea shanties, was everyone remembered that there was an incredibly badass song in Pirates that’s like half of a sea shanty. The, Yoho oh. There’s this dude on YouTube. His name’s like Colin something or other. He has like one of those deep voices that just like earthly. You know exactly who I’m talking about. He did a cover of that and it’s like, I’m like oh! He’s insane. I gotta look him up, hold on. But it’s like a third of a song. It’s not even like a, it was like Disney was like, put this at the beginning of Pirates and they’ll love it. And we did. And then they never finished it, which is rude. He did a cover of the Misty Mountain song from the Hobbit. Oh yes he did, yes he did. And it’s just crazy. His voice, you listen to it and it’s like, there’s no human’s voice can go that deep. That’s not a real noise. From the abyss. You can feel his throat vibrating. Like he sings it and you’re like, that is so deep. My own throat is vibrating because of how deep this guy is singing. Your laptop’s like rattling. It’s like yeah. I was a baritone in high school. I was like a bass when we needed bass. I was a tenor when we needed tenor. My choir director told me I was actually a true baritone, which turns out that means you just can’t sing. Right, he’s like, well we need tenor too. So just don’t sing the parts you can’t sing. And then tenors would be like, ha. And I’d be like. You have to look like you’re participating. It was great. I went to like a small school and so we had like, we didn’t have a huge boys section in the choir and so depending on the year or the semester, it was like we’d either have more basses or more tenors. And so my director’s like, “You can sing both parts. “So whichever one we need more of, “I’m just gonna put you there”. And so I just kind of swapped back and forth between whatever. He’s dirty man. He got it done. Yeah. Yeah. When the jobs too big you call in Trevor. You play any Sea of Thieves? I actually, okay, Sea of Thieves is one of those games. See of Thieves nuts fit in your mouth. That did not just happen to me. You really are an intern aren’t you? Oh my God. Oh my God, I got him. Oh, I cannot believe that just happened to me. Oh no. Oh God I’m so good. I just was so genuinely excited about Sea of Thieves, but it’s fine. It’s fine. There’s no more trust now. We’re 48 minutes in, there was trust, it’s gone. We were gonna be friends and now he’s gonna leave. Just like block him on Twitter. Block him on . Rhett and Link, you need to fire Trevor immediately. At Rhett and Link, I met your intern today. He was very rude. He was very rude. What is he talking about? Oh man. Why is this unhinged Minecraft YouTuber tweeting us? I’m sorry. I actually do wanna hear about Sea of Thieves though. No, you ruined it. No, no, I had the funniest Sea of Thieves story ever. And I’m gonna sound like the worst person ever. I’m a really like. You already are. You already are, mission accomplished. I cyber bullied a kid. That’s what Sea of Thieves is for. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Well, tell me about your Sea of Thieves experience. Oh, now you wanna hear about mine? I want to. Unless you want me to tell my story first? No, wait in line. It’s my time now. Please, please. Go ahead, go ahead. Please, you have the floor. So, thank you. Please. I can’t stop thinking about it. Oh, man. All right, I’m good, I’m good. Yeah, no, I’m fine. I’m fine. As I was saying, every once in a while I would stream Sea of Thieves, but I didn’t really know the game. And you know, a bunch of Minecraft YouTubers jumping in to hit play Sea of Thieves. We had this streak that a hundred percent of the times we played Sea of Thieves we had been kraken. And which is I know it’s not that big a deal once you know how to play the game, but when you don’t know how to play the game, it’s terrifying. So two of my YouTube buddies have like fish related phobia. So one has actual like ichthyophobia or whatever, and the other one has like the fear of deep water. And Sea of Thieves is real enough that it bothers both of them. And so we just kept getting kraken and we finally convinced the guy who’s fear is deep waters to play. He was like, “I don’t know. “I don’t know”. I was like, “Dude, you’re on a boat. “It’s not a big deal” . Yeah, it’s like a horror game at that point though. And it was the day I was about to hit a 100,000 subscribers on YouTube. And so I have like a sub counter up on the stream and we’re like about to hit it and we’re sailing along and we get kraken. As I hit a 100,000 subs on YouTube. And so I’m trying to like say thank you. I’m like, “Oh my gosh guys. This means like so much. It’s like a big moment, right? And we’re getting kraken and these two people, these two idiots with like genuine phobias are screaming. And the claws come up and they slam down on the ship and like tear it shreds and we fall in the water and Sundy, who is the one with the deep water fear, He goes, “Nope, nope”. And he just Alta force and like closes and just like leaves. No! And I’m like, “Anyway guys, thanks for a 100,000 subscribers. A really big moment for everyone, thank you. So Sea of Thieves ruined my moment. That’s really what I have. Sea of Thieves, if you have a fear of deep waters, like that’s a horror game at that point. Oh yeah ’cause the water physics are so beautiful and good. It’s great. So I have two friends that are like, they started playing Sea of Thieves and they were like really good at it. Like they know the game, they know what to do. They know the mechanics. And then I got on there and I have no clue what I’m doing. And I told them specifically, I was like, “Don’t tell me how to play the game”. I was like, “I’m here to vibe. “I’m vibing out”. I’m here to vibe out and enjoy my time as a pirate. Did you suing sea shanties? I did, I did, but we were doing, it was when they did the Megalodon event. And I knew that basics roughly, I knew how to repair the ship and stuff. Do you know your port from your starboard? No. Okay. Port is left Starboard’s right? Port’s a fancy drink. Okay, all right. This goofball over here. Silly guy talking about port fortified wine, huh! Like I don’t know nothing about port. Wow okay, my bad. Anyway, but basically they would do everything while I just dicked around on the ship. We had four of us playing, but for the Megalodon event you needed five, and so we picked up this random kid that we found and you can voice chat to other people, and we picked up the random kid that we found and put him in our group. And we did the whole event. But I can’t remember, he was like still playing with us. I think it was when we were towards the end of the event or something, there was a fight going on and I just kept shooting this kid ’cause you can team kill with no consequences. So this kid, I just kept like shooting him with like a blunder blunderbuss or a musket or whatever and I was like spawn camping him. ‘Cause you’d get off the boat. When you die, you respawn back on the boat. So I would just stand there and I’d wait for him to respawn and I’d just kill him. And he was screaming and he was probably like 12 years old. And I feel a little bit bad, but it was really funny. He was like, ” Stop killing me!” He was screaming and then, we hear on his mic his mom comes in and tells him to stop screaming and she makes him get off the game ’cause he was yelling so much because I was killing him over and over again. I know. Dear Twitter. I know it was bad. Cyber bulling’s not okay, Trevor. It’s not and I was intoxicated. That doesn’t make it okay, does it? No, but I just thought it was really funny. It’s really good.. It’s pretty funny. It’s pretty funny. We finished the event and I just kept killing him, and he was still at our party and he would just respawn on the boat and I just like kept it, and he was like, “Stop killing me”. You taught him an important lesson, not to trust strangers on the internet. Dude, honestly. That’s the way that I thought about it. ‘Cause I was like the amount of times when I was young playing RuneScape, getting scammed by people, by predatory RuneScape players online scamming me out of my hard earned GP. Oh not your GP. You gotta learn that lesson sometime. I feel bad about it though, I do. You should find him. If you’re out there listening by any chance and this rings a bell. You remember some douchebag killing you on Sea of Thieves Here’s the thing, you can get 500 people who this rings a bell for. Yeah, probably. Like that was me. ‘Cause this probably happened to everyone. ‘Cause that game is so dumb. Oh it is. That’s what makes it so fun. You fell out of a raft on the Nile rapids. Oh my God, Jamie. Yeah, right? She’s crazy. She’s like a stalker. She literally cyber stalks all of our guests. Good God, yeah that happened. That actually did happen. When did that happen? What was the scenario? What’s the story? So I was 18 years old. Okay. And my family had a really close friend who was from Uganda. He came to the States to get educated and that’s like when we met him he was going to college. He moved back to Uganda and he invited my dad and I to come and visit him. So we went and stayed with him for like two weeks in Uganda, and one of the things we did is, so Uganda owns Lake Victoria, which is the headwaters of the Nile. Because the Nile flows backwards and goes up to Egypt. And so basically that’s the source of the Nile and you can whitewater raft that, and it’s really, really unique because the rocks are incredibly deep. So the rapids are actually like 40 feet deep. But it’s just like big white waves, like class five, class six rapids. Which like class six are like “Ha, don’t”. We went past the class six ’cause we were doing class five. I was like, is there a class six? And he like points and it was just like a spout of water coming out a wall just going. And then he was like, “That’s it.” And I was like, “Oh, okay”. And he was like, “Yeah, you don’t do this”. And I was like, “All right, cool, cool”. But we went down to class five rapid and I used to have this photo. It’s on like some CD somewhere. But the raft tipped sideways, and I distinctly remember there were these two British teachers who were sitting in front of me and they were like hungover. But this dude made like the most athletic move I’ve ever seen in my life because he basically just like Neo ran up the boat as it was going down, and he jumped off the side as it went like vertical, but you can see the wave just like reaching up and grabbing me in the bottom left and just like, pull me in. And then I was stuck under the raft and I like bounced along the rest of the raft underneath. Well, at the time I was actually a state champion swimmer. So like yeah I kind of enjoyed it. It was pretty fun. Nowadays I’d probably be like, “Aah!” But and then that was it. Yeah, that’s one of the things about whitewater. Are you like a big whitewater rafter? That’s one of the few times I’ve done it. And I think it’s probably ruined it ’cause North American whitewater rafting looks way boring comparatively. Have you ever been to Idaho? Yeah, actually. You have? Oh yeah. I’m born and raised in Idaho. No, what part? Boise. Oh, okay. Yeah. I used to live up near like Pullman in Moscow. Oh that’s awesome. Did you go to school up there? Yeah. Oh cool. Way, way back when. Wait, did you go to U of I? Basically, yeah. Okay. It’s a long story. I hate it. Yeah okay, we don’t have to talk about it. We go back to whitewater. I got out quick. We’re like a big whitewater rafting family. We do it all the time. We would like doit growing up ’cause there’s a lot of whitewater in Idaho, but there’s like a couple of rivers outside Boise that are like really chilled. There’s some bigger rapids, but there’s the main of the Payette river which is like a super chilled, like float. And there’s a lot of companies that like do tours. And so when I was younger we would do some tours, but then eventually we were like, all of our friends had rafts and we’re like, “Why don’t we just get our own raft? “We’re always going out, “let’s just do it”. So I fell out in a class four over in Oregon when I was like 17, I think. Oh wow. Yeah. The North American one’s are much more rocky, right? Yeah, I mean, when water’s that big and the rivers are that deep, it is just huge waves. And that’s sometimes fun. Especially if you get like a big, in Idaho, when we would get big snowfalls, all that snow would melt and you would get a lot bigger water, but it actually is a lot safer because it’s just big waves. You’re not hitting anything underneath. But yeah, we were over on the Owyhee River and it was my dad and I, we were on like a multi-day trip camping with some friends and it was like kind of a, the river kind of did like this dog leg thing where it came around to the left and it kind of pushed up against the wall of a canyon. So there was just one part of the river that was flowing up against this rock, and then over in the left side it was just all like rock field, like very shallow. So you couldn’t go that way. You had to basically whip around this dog leg as the water’s pushing up, but we didn’t have enough speed going into it. So our raft went up on the rock and same thing, like tilted this way and we both fell out. Yeah, and I actually ended up getting stuck under water between a rock. And a hard place? Twice. A rock and a hard place. Maybe another rock. Who knows at this point. But yeah, I was stuck at first by the hips. I managed to like wiggle free out of those two rocks. And then I started to float back up and I got sucked back down, hit my head on a rock. And then I was stuck by my foot. And I had to like wiggle my foot out of the little wetsuit boot that I had on. And then I swam like off to the shore and my head was just like bleeding and it was crazy. Definitely almost died. Definitely almost took a little wet river nap. Yeah, mine was more of like a fun wet roller coaster. Yeah, yeah, that sounds fun. Yeah, mine was like going to Schlitterbahn or something like that. I was like, “Weeeee!” Yeah, honestly, that’s one of the most fun things you can do, like whitewater rafting. Here’s the thing, mother nature is insanely dangerous. And she don’t like us. And rivers are extremely dangerous and you can be really dumb and you can get hurt on even really small rapids. There’s people that die in Idaho all the time just being dumb, drunk idiots. Not doing the right thing. Well also, I haven’t done as much in the US with whitewater wise, but I would be much more worried about doing something like you than what I did because there were no rocks that I was in danger of hitting, right? I got thrown into water, but there was nothing to get stuck in. I got stuck on the only thing you get stuck under which is the boat. The boat was moving so you just put your hands up and you push and you eventually just like come out the back of the boat and you’re fine. Also you’re wearing a life jacket. Yeah, well the life jacket’s what’s the problem in that exact situation. ‘Cause it’s like “Come to the surface”, and you’re like, “But there’s a thing, “there’s a boat up there”. No, I’ve gotten thrown under a raft a couple times. Sometimes when you pop out, but it’s yeah, it’s fine. I’ve lost a couple hats that sucks. When you’re wearing a hat, you go in the water, lose the hat. I’ve lost so many good hats to the river. RIP, the river tax strikes again. I’m gonna pour one out for all the hats that I’ve lost. Now we’ve got our own river. Sorry, Jamie. I did it for the bit, but now I realize I might have ruined the table. I was like, “There’s no way he’s go, “oh, he’s gonna do it, yeah”. Can we? I like hats a lot. Hold for paper towel, please? Hold for paper towels. Can you get me a tissue? I’ve made a mess. I’m sorry, Jamie. Thank you. Kleenex, not a sponsorship. Good for all of your wet messes. Hm-hm, Hm-hm. I was literally like, “Is he?” This is a good Mythical daycare. Jamie gets put in charge of me for an hour and a half twice a week. All right, this is a game that we like to play here on this show called Rapid Fire Favorites. Okay. So I’m gonna give you like a thing, like soda flavor. That’s not gonna be one of them, but then you’re gonna have to gimme your favorite as fast as possible. And then I’m gonna judge you based on your answer. So if you answer stupidly in the moment, then I get to make fun of you or if you give a good answer then maybe I’ll agree with you. Or maybe I’ll just say, “Eh, that was okay”. Any of those three reactions will be coming from me. I feel like, “Eh, it’s okay” it’s how most people feel about me in general, so. No, only I’m allowed to hate myself on this show. Oh please, I was hating myself before you were born. All right, Rapid Fire Favorites. Are you ready? Yeah. Number one, board game. Dungeons and Dragons. Okay, that’s counts. That counts. Okay. That’s the tabletop RPG. All right, number two. You ready? Yeah. Inclement weather. Ooh, a little bit of light rain. Light rain? Yeah. I respect that a lot. I respect that a lot. Well, especially ’cause I work inside, there’s nothing like just kind of like, “Ah, I couldn’t be doing anything else” Yeah, I don’t need to feel guilty. Number three, movie genre. Action, suspense like thriller. Okay, what’s your favorite thriller movie? I mean the Matrix is my favorite movie of all time. Okay. And so anything that’s kind of like got action, but twisty with that sort of thing. So Fight Club’s in there. What was I gonna say? I had a movie that I was gonna mention. That was movie genre. That was the end of the game. That was movie genre and now if you wanna do one more, we can. Yeah, What’s In My Pocket? Yeah. That’s not as. Everybody always gives me the same look when I say we’re gonna play a game called What’s In My Pocket? I don’t get it. It’s ’cause I was genuinely expecting you to have something weird in your pocket. I do. Yeah. That’s unsurprising. Yeah, that’s the game. All right, I’m gonna give you three hints as to what’s in my pocket and I’m gonna give you three guesses to guess what it is. And then if you guess it right, then you get to keep it. Is it something that I wanna keep? Jamie, these are the freest hints ever. I gotta start vetting these hints. No, Jamie studied me. She knows I’m an idiot. We’re giving it away. She knows I’m an idiot. Oh my God. Well, it’s either. They’re too hard and no one gets it or they’re easy. Honestly, don’t even give him the last clue then. What, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I want half of the last clue. No, you get the first two clues. I’m telling you, she literally just described the entire thing, what it is, without saying just the name. Now there’s expectations. You’re gonna make me look stupid or whatever, thank you. All right, I’m giving you the first two hints and then I’ll give you two guesses. And if you don’t get it after two guesses, which I would be very surprised, then I’ll give you the third hint. All right, deal. Hint number one, it resembles an animal and hint number two, it floats. Is it a rubber ducky? Yes. There we go. It’s glow in the dark too. Oh, dang! It’s green. Oh, I never get that. It glows in the dark. You didn’t get a squeaky one, Jamie? Hey budget got cut for intern, sorry. All right, I’m wrapping it up. I’m sorry. There’s something I’m supposed to say. Are you guys friends? Jamie, I was getting there. Oh my God. Can you let me host the show? Do you not trust me? I didn’t say that many things this whole time. Jamie, it’s really hard to like perform and be the host of such a popular podcast when you are constantly getting yelled at by your producer. Oh yeah, I did the yelling. I’m sorry. I just feel like mom and dad are fighting. I can come back. This is my childhood all over again. Jamie and I, we like to rib each other. We’ve got a good back and forth. Really? It’s just kind of just the one way. One way which way? Me to Jamie or Jamie to me. No comment. No comment. ‘Cause Jamie’s been ribbing me a lot. I haven’t seen that. The looks, she’s been staring daggers at me. You make so much eye contact with me during the podcast that I don’t know how to look at you sometimes. What’s wrong with that. There’s nothing wrong with it. I feel like you’re talking to me sometimes which is cool. I am. I enjoy it. I like to include you in the conversation. I really like that. How am I the villain here? How am I the villain here? You’re not. How am I the villain here? You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. Yeah. Oh, man. Well I’m the villain. So, friends? Do you wanna hang out? Do you wanna talk again sometime? I sure do wanna hang out. Do you wanna hang out? A hundred percent. Okay, we’ll do it. A hundred percent. We’ll do it. All right, when the cameras go off I will get your phone number or whatever. I’ll follow you on Twitter, but that’s epic. I had a great time. Yeah, this was fun. Thanks for having me. Tell people where they can find you. You can find me at youtube.com/Sigils and also I’m publishing a book this month. So if you like urban fantasy it’s called Soul Fraud and it’ll be on Amazon. Frick, that’s one of the things I wanted to talk about, Jamie. I didn’t get to like half the list. I wanted to talk about that. I wanted to talk about like all fantasy books. Can we start over? Can you put the clock back to zero? Redo, I’m down for redo. We’re redoing it. Okay, so I’m gonna cut out the whole RuneScape beginning and then you can put your. No! No, that was gold. That was us finding our stride. Leave the RuneScaping God dammit! Son of a! Then you don’t get books except for Andrews. No, no, no. Please tell me more about the book though. Okay, so I’m self-publishing a book. Ever since I was a kid I wanted to write books. That was like my big passion before video games or anything. And so it’s called Soul Fraud. It’s an urban fantasy novel. And basically the premise is the main character is like a 24 year old. It’s his birthday. He has his terrible life. Most of his family’s dead. He’s like dropped outta college, flunked outta college. And this demon appears, Dan the demon, and Dan’s like a terrible salesman. He’s like, “Man, we can save your life. “We can fix everything for 10 years “in exchange for your soul”. And dude’s like, “Nah man, “I’ve seen that TV show. “My life sucks, “but no I’m good. “I’ll keep the soul, thanks”. And Dan has like a little mental breakdown because he’s really behind on his quota and obviously his bosses aren’t super understanding. He works for hell, and so he forges his signature on the contract and then vanishes in a puff of smoke. And then like this dude’s life turns around. Crazy stuff starts happening to him and he’s like, “Okay, so this is a problem. “I’m gonna need that back. “Hello 1-800 my soul. “Like how do I get this back?” And so he kinda has to start learning about the supernatural world and uncovering all this stuff to go on a journey to try to figure out how to get his soul back before time runs out. That’s epic. And that’s basically it. That’s awesome. _ That’s awesome. I wanna read it. And it’ll be on Kindle, paperback, hardback and audio book. So everything. When? what’s the date again? It’s called Soul Fraud. It comes out June 30th. Everybody, please check out all social stuff. Check out his book coming out June 30th. Check him on YouTube. Follow him on the socials and stuff, for sure. Thank you so much for coming on man. Thanks for having me. This was a blast. Everybody that was Sigils. What a great guy. What a fun time. We had a great conversation. Make sure to check out all the stuff he’s got going on. Go check out his YouTube channel. He’s putting out great videos. Follow him on his socials and check out his book. It sounds really good. I’m gonna read it when it comes out. So June 30th his book is coming out. Check that out on amazon.com. Jamie, how do you think that went? Oh, that was great. Yeah? Yeah. Frick yeah! It was literally so much fun. When you got him with that Sea of Thieves joke. Yeah. I died and he died a little inside I think. Yeah, no that was perfect. I got him so good. He was so excited. Sea of Thieves, great game, phenomenal game. And he was so excited to talk about it. He was ready and I just, oh man, I just ended his whole career. So I guess you have nothing to check out now ’cause I ended his career with that roast. No, I’m kidding. Well, he kind of got you back with the intern stuff. Yeah, okay. He was coming at me with a little bit of heat there, okay? He could take it, but he could also give it. Yeah, a little tit for tat. That’s inappropriate, Jamie. Is it? Can’t talk about tit on the show. Jamie, Jamie this is a family show. There was a Josh episode and you guys talked about hentai tities. Jamie, this is a family friendly show. I’m gonna have to ask you to lock it up. Everyone, there’s something that I need to tell you about. Please. Something that I’ve told you about before. Oh, oh, did I need your permission? No, I just said please talk about it ’cause it’s awesome. It is awesome. It’s a MythiCon. It’s freaking MythiCon. There’s a lot of, it’s a lot. It’s honestly a lot to talk about. It’s a lot to tell you about. So I’m probably not gonna tell you everything about it. Everything that I can tell you, however, is on a website called mythicontickets.com. mythicontickets.com is where you can find all the information for MythiCon and MythiCon tickets at mythicontickets.com. But what I can tell you is we’ve got a lot of stuff planned, a lot of very fun stuff. It’s gonna be in Austin, Texas. We are creating a whole mythical environment. The Kitchen Team is gonna be there. That includes me. Rhett and Link are gonna be there. That’s huge. Emily, Davin, Chase, Stevie, bunch of other crew members are gonna be there. We’re all gonna be having a good time. We’re gonna be hanging out. We’re gonna be meeting people. We’ve got some live podcasts going on, including mine and Ear Biscuits and Hot Dog is a Sandwich. Tons of other stuff. There’s gonna be whole dance party. There’s gonna be karaoke. There’s gonna be just, it’s cool. We’re gonna be in a ranch outside of Austin, just having a weekend long party and it’s gonna be mythical and it’s gonna be amazing. So go check out all the details at mythicaltickets.com and get your tickets. If you haven’t already. And yeah, check, check, check, check that out and also make sure to like and subscribe. We got new episodes coming out every Tuesday, wherever you get your podcast Trevor Talks Too Much. YouTube version comes out following Monday. Y’all know the drill, leave a review, leave a comment. Let me know what I can be doing better. What Jamie can be doing better even though probably nothing because Jamie’s really good at her job and I only make her life harder. No. Yeah, it’s true. You add value Trevor. I add value? Yeah. Well thank you. Make sure to follow us on all the socials, all the Mythical socials and stuff. Check out our other channels. Check out the other podcasts. We got a lot going on. Check out Mythical pods on TikTok for all sorts of podcast content. Funny clips from all of them. Cool clips from all the podcasts if you wanna taste, a little taste. And yeah, I think that’s all I gotta tell people. I think that’s through the right outro. Yeah. Yeah. Completely. That was good singing. Nice work. Everybody leave a thumbs up if you like that singing from Jamie. Queue the song. I’m sorry, I’m gonna keep it a buck 100 with all of you. It is 5:44 PM on a Friday and I’m about to go get litty. Litty in the city. So with that, I bid you all adieu. And enjoy your weekend if it is. Thank you.