[Music] all right Nicole mac and cheese is done taking it off the stove now no you have to put it in the oven now oh brother here we go again this is a hot dog is a sandwich ketchup is a smoothie yeah I put ice in my cereal so what that makes no sense hot dog is a sandwich a hot dog is a sandwich Welcome to our podcast a hot dog is a sandwich the show we break down the world’s biggest food debates I’m your host Josh share and I’m your host Nicole anaiety and Nicole today we are talking about macaroni and cheese I don’t know if both of those things but especially when they’re together I love the use of the word and it totally smokes Ampersand right that’s what it is yeah except I love ampersands well not we no one go through the mythical kitchen videos where we’ve made mac and cheese which are a lot of them and try and find out what our official spelling of mac and cheese is because I think we’ve gone through a couple iterations yeah and no one what about I like it when it’s Mac apostrophe cheese yeah wait hold on because an apostrophe let’s talk about grammar instead of mac and cheese and we’re talking about whether or not stovetop mac and cheese were talking the creamy stuff baby is better than baked mac and cheese something in my tooth but first I need to talk about the usage of apostrophes in languages and apostrophe is there for a missing letter right oh is it like the word isn’t oh that the apostrophe replaces what is it called whenever you combine the two words contraction this is a contract the contractions are spaced 30 seconds apart you need to push so for me if I’m writing mac and cheese I think there should be an apostrophe before the end and after the end it should be bracketed because you’re missing an A and A D but it’s not grammatically correct and apparently it is only before the I don’t know anyways Nicole what’s up what’s up geeky God why do you call me a geek that was so geeky dude I was a writer I like copy edited it I did the whole thing yeah it was it yeah it was a geek I mean geek I’m a nerd but I’m not just in a geek off the streets I’m handy over the piece if you know what I mean gotta earn your keep I believe that is a a transcript from uh Regulators that is indeed oh my gosh look at you I know okay what do you want to talk about oh yeah this is where do you where do you fall um I am in the middle oh my God I have reasons I have reasons why I’m in the middle as a self-proclaimed uh macaroni and cheese like student of the world I appreciate every single type I like I like the crappy stuff that you can get from a box yeah I love the thick macaroni and cheese like slab casserole salad that I get from Soul Food I love the word slab when it comes to food yeah I like I like the the in between where it’s you know it’s like stove toppy like soupy and then it has like a cool crust on the top like I just love all iterations of pasta and cheese sauce so I mean there’s a time and place for both you’re a pure mac and cheese neutralist I really am I always you’re Switzerland I am Switzerland on the matter speaking of Switzerland Nicole did you know that they invented processed cheese even though today we call it American cheese no way yeah they actually did what about so Swiss what about swiss cheese okay okay so um was that invented by this this is listen not to get into the Romantic life of my fiance Julia why not but she did she dated a Swiss guy back in college she did why is it so surprising yeah I don’t know she’s not that big of a deal yeah of course it’s just a dude um but are you from Switzerland yeah he was from Switzerland and you know going to school international student right a little international student hi Julia I’m sorry if this is a lot I hope that Swiss dude I’m sorry I forgot his name uh but anyway she was like one of the stories that always sticks out in my mind is that he was so confused at the fact that we call Swiss cheese swiss cheese because he’s like there he’s like Switzerland is one of the world’s capitals of cheeses that’s correct we have a lot of different kinds what we call Swiss cheese is most likely emman taller which is from Switzerland yeah exactly but that’s emmental they got a lot of different kinds of cheeses over in Switzerland you know what I mean um but anyways they invented processed cheese as well because they were just a cheese capital and then that kind of came into the US and processed cheese is an important part of the evolution of mac and cheese a lot of people don’t like to put processed cheese in their mac and cheese but let me tell you it is the secret to a good mac and cheese yeah I agree with stove top or baked well so the interesting thing about mac and cheese to me is it’s a story of old versus new but like okay so some people consider this is this is dumb this is getting like when people say that ketchup is like several thousand years old well I I guess I’m one of those people because I said that a lot um but technically if you want to look at the origins of cheese and pasta together like you really go back to ancient Roman times because they were making like wheat doughs that were boiled and then mixed with cheese but caccio Pepe is mac and cheese oh that’s a great question I don’t think so like I don’t think I think mac and cheese to me has to be a milk cream based sauce and so the origins of mac and cheese if you think about it are in french-based cookery right is one of the French mother sauces It’s a combination of flour and butter to make a roux what are the others Josh quiz time Bechamel hollandaise espanol tomat oh my God no no no bingo bango um but oh man there’s so many variations on hollandaise cooking’s such a beautiful sport it really is cooking’s my favorite sport then it’s track and field then football I like that high a lot I like watching competitive ice skating uh figure skating or um don’t ask me freestyle uh I will leave Moguls I don’t I literally don’t know the difference so french-based cookery so the first ever what I consider the first ever recorded recipe of mac and cheese because I am an amateur historian I do Google things it was like 1769. oh my God Thomas Jefferson okay so we’ll get into that in a second but 1769 in England the original recipe to me was a French Mornay Mornay variation of a mother sauce he add cheese to a bechamel correct and then it was actually baked as well so it’s very much like a it’s basically it’s pasta gratin is what it is that exactly right yeah the Thomas Jefferson thing is really really interesting so Thomas Jefferson often gets credited for in quote unquote inventing mac and cheese popularizing yes to the US sure and he was the American ambassador to France for a long time and he did supposedly bring the first ever macaroni maker to America a pasta extruder the interesting thing about any time you’re like Martha Washington’s recipe for apple pie Thomas Jefferson’s recipe it wasn’t Thomas Jefferson cooking it was it was an enslaved black person that was right and so James Hemmings was uh Thomas Jefferson’s Chef in James Hemmings actually went uh Michael Twitty writes about this in the book The Cooking Gene which is fantastic recommend to anybody um Michael we got to get you on the show man what are you doing later but anyway so James Hemmings actually went to France trained in France to cook um bought his freedom at age 30 tragically died when he was 36 but his recipe for mac and cheese which he actually described as he literally called it macaroni a macaroni called pie mm-hmm he literally described his first recipe for mac and cheese as a macaroni called pie or no sorry I’m so sorry a pie called macaroni interesting okay it sounds like a weird uh deaf you know poem that was like a slam poem cool okay but anyway so the original recipes for mac and cheese were indeed baked right sure says Yoji and then as we get into 1850 the first Cheese Factory opens in America and then in the early 1900s processed cheese takes off we all know the story Space Age food can’t there’s literally a product in the 1950s that was marketed to housewives that was called macaroni cheese and it was literally just a can of cheese goo they mixed with macaroni so that is when stovetop macaroni really took off so that’s how we ended up getting you know Kraft macaroni and cheese which is incredible but which is incredible but that shifted our Perceptions in macaroni and here I am Nicole ah and I don’t know which one I don’t know which one is oh you know what I’m saying because I got like you like you yeah I got I got love I got love for the stuff I grew up with yeah me too just the gloopy soupy craft macaroni and cheese it’s color the iconic orange color oh it’s the red dye 40 with the yellow dye six Nicole beautiful I don’t know in the smell it is not like any cheese that you’ve ever smelled before but it smells like what an alien would consider cheese yes I like that it’s like if they distilled cheese Essence yeah perfume yeah like with the what is the whale the whale poop ambergris the whale vomit sorry it came out of the wrong end of the whale it’s like they distilled cheese Essence with that and sprayed it on there it becomes more cheese than cheese yeah it’s really special but I don’t know I mean there’s nothing easier than whipping up just like a bowl of stovetop mac and cheese and pork it’s the thing is some people get the like uh ratios wrong and it’s like macaroni and cheese soup which I don’t really care for so you know a certain like heft and a certain level of I don’t know how to explain it like an amount of body coagulation correct it’s the proper coagulation but I’ve had it on the other side of the spectrum shoe when people when people bake their mac and cheese and it’s bone dry bone dry just embarrassingly bones I’ve made bone dry mac and cheese I’ve been there too and I and it makes me sad but okay so any pasta cookery it’s really interesting because you have to pull the pasta off the stove you should be sauteing your pasta with sauce it just makes it better it makes sense yeah it makes sense but you have to pull it off the stove when it’s too wet to serve right macaroni and cheese It’s a pasta dish when it comes down to it yeah yeah so you have to pull it when it’s too wet to serve because the pasta is going to continue to absorb sauce you know what I mean when it’s like on the plate when it’s still hot all that um but sometimes you screw that up and I’ve certainly screwed that up same for on both ends I’ve made soupy Mac and cheeses uh I’ve made bone dry Mac and cheeses it’s a deceptively tough you know dish to get perfect yes yes yes in macaroni I just burped and powered through it macaroni and cheese like the alien from Men In Black got any sugar I don’t think I’ve ever seen that movie all the way through oh really I like I like the part when they’re like at the bodega and the guy’s like hey what’s up and that’s all I remember is that the labat blue bear from the commercial I don’t know what that is either you don’t know the what you don’t know what’s up that’s where the phrase was up comes no no I do but you said something about I think it’s blue bear I wouldn’t believe the origin okay now we’re we’re getting into the real name of the podcast I believe it was from a labat blue which is a Canadian beer brand what is labat blue that blue is like the Bud Light of Canada and then and then the Coors Banquet of Canada is molson’s dry why are you emphasizing your words in a weird way Canada you’re doing it that’s how they say Canada Bud come over for some Brewsky’s play some hockey eh I don’t know eat some Beaver tails is that what they call them Beaver Tails yeah yeah um no I’ve never I mean I I only remember the the scream version of that commercial yeah yeah that’s what they were parodying yeah okay so macaroni so macaroni so stovetop stovetop macaroni um it’s good I didn’t grow up with Kraft mac and cheese as much as I grew up with Stouffer’s Frozen mac and cheese all that yeah microwaved which I would consider stovetop mac and cheese certainly stovetop that’s the style right that is the style stovetop mac and cheese there is no textural interplay other than Squish and gouache what why it’s glossy and Squishy the noodles are I’ve had it before too those noodles are so so overcooked it’s like eating a it’s like can’t it’s like Chef Boyardee ravioli where the noodle has no chew the noodles are talking I and it’s great it’s like delicious you don’t like it no no no you’d rather have craft than sofas one million oh I’m sorry I didn’t mean to offend Nicole with that you know I like my pasta like Al dente-ish so yeah so being able to like you know craft your own like pasta texture is actually really cool that I like but I feel that yeah as a child you know me just just determining oh this is overcooked do it again mom I’m just kidding I never did that I never did that shallow you don’t deserve that from Nicole I’m sorry you did that but no that’s so tops of garbage ew no no no no [Music] foreign [Music] they say the only constant in life is change that’s true and it’s easy to feel overwhelmed by the changes in our lives a slight change of plans from Pushkin Industries is here to help it’s hosted by Dr Maya Shanker a cognitive scientist who’s an expert on human behavior and it’s a show all about who we are and who we become in the face of the big change a slight change of plans features incredible stories of transformation from guests like Ruby Bridges who at six years old became a civil rights icon and Christy Warren a first responder who after enduring psychological Trauma from helping others in emergencies bravely sought out help for herself blending science with storytelling a slight change of plans will leave you thinking differently about changing your own life listen to a slight change of plans wherever you get your podcasts okay let me let me ask you then let’s work backwards from the problem what is bless you thank you let’s work backwards from the problem here okay what is the best Mac and Cheese you’ve ever had the one that I make well how do you make it um oh yeah wait oh my answer is the same but go on I forgot your mac and cheese is the best it is the best mac and cheese like you can quote me on that um well I cook it with evaporated milk well first I cook my noodles beforehand and I wash them I wash the noodles and then I put oil on the noodles I also cook them according to the package directions maybe like 30 seconds less okay and then I I rinse it in cold water so I can stop the cooking process and then I put neutral oil on it and then I let it hang out while that’s happening I make my bechamel sauce but I use um I use evaporated milk cream and regular milk in my that’s the freaking ticket yeah in my mac and cheese and then I season it heavily I put chicken bouillon I put mustard powder um I put a dash of whatever hot sauce I have around typically it’s either Louisiana or Crystal um uh onion powder garlic powder things like that I put sharp cheddar cheese Velveeta I believe I put some gruyere in it mm-hmm and then um I combine the two on the heat and then I put it in a butter dish and then I put more cheese on the top and then I bake it for 20 minutes so there’s no one this is the best Mac and Cheese I’ve ever had this is the best mac and cheese and I did hours of research like days of research on this and it’s perfect because we’re talking about cheese choices on this some people be like I’ve made a 19 cheese mac and cheese too many cheese too many cheeses I don’t like when people put feta in their Mac and she’s like no every cheese you put in your macaroni should be intentional Velveeta sodium citrate I call it the god chemicals because it will it will fuse and emulsify any cheese sodium citrate is what makes American cheese American cheese that’s right and so if you just add some American cheese to any cheese sauce you’re making it will bind it it won’t break so you have that for the structure and the creaminess and then you have the sharp cheddar for like that’s the most iconic cheese flavor when you think of that sure yeah sharp cheddar gruyere comes in gruyere comes out on the back end oh it’s not it’s nutty and it’s different that’s a Nutty cheese it’s different it’s the wild card it’s the wow factor it’s that that separates the mac and cheese recipe for most and then another part is you’re actually seasoning it with spices people need to season their mac and cheese 100 some people don’t no and that is honestly I I used to never do that because I was like I’m here for just the cheese no no it’s a dish it’s a full comprehensive dish and you need to enjoy what you’re eating yeah it’s not it’s not a pasta dish it’s uh casserole do we call it a casserole I don’t know is that a is that a fence are all baked pasta dishes casseroles is manicotta casserole is lasagna casserole I I made the claim recently on Twitter that I I said it using a bunch of real legalese language where I was like through the American lens of lasagna in the American lens of casserole I believe it could fit into that subcategory I don’t think it manicotti do you think enchiladas are casserole well it depends what you mean by enchiladas the way Americans because okay so a legit so my favorite enchiladas are are oaxacan and they’re maybe called el molaras because they’re they’re made with mole yeah oh I’ve had them before Monte Alba Montana got a bunch of great Mezcal cocktails for cheap maybe I love drinking there they’re so colorful just a lovely restaurant I always have a good time when I go there but and moladas you don’t bake them they’re filled with whatever chicken cheese uh well they’re the tortillas are lightly fried and dipped in oil sure slather them in mole yes yes roll them up put them on a plate um Maybe cover them with a little bit of of queso fresco or quesoaco whatever there’s nothing baked about it the American idea of well not even American you can go to New Mexico and get baked enchiladas well America New Mexico is in America sure it’s uh but I mean I do you know what you know that I don’t believe in Sovereign borders like that truly truly I don’t believe in Sovereign Wars right because I actually met somebody uh shout out to Tyler uh her family dates back to New Mexico they came from Spain in 1520. that’s cool so literally 500 years of new Mexican culture so they’re like we don’t care if we’re in America or Mexico we’ve been here for 500 years making this stuff okay this culture so whether New Mexican food is Mexican-American just purely New Mexican whatever it is but you know if you’re covering enchiladas in cheese and baking it I don’t know sometimes that reads as a casserole to me hmm you know yeah no I know I just I just don’t know if I have the heart to call baked macaroni and cheese a casserole I do think you can make a macaroni and cheese casserole though how would you make a macaron cheesecake like Caribbean macaroni pie yeah is a casserole talk about Caribbean macaroni pie it’s just it’s I believe it’s made with eggs evaporated milk some some cheese and you bake it yeah and that’s it is it’s like it’s hard and it’s dense and it’s hearty and Rich and eats completely differently than totally uh like say stove top the difference between a stovetop mac and cheese and like uh Caribbean macaroni pie which shout out to Rashida homes a Bridgetown Roti she makes a great macaroon oh you gotta try macaroni piece but the difference between those two dishes is like I don’t know the difference between like a milkshake you know and rice pudding it’s just like they’re so far apart you know what I mean huh there’s macaroni and cheese in both but they’ve satisfy such different totally totally and they’re both delicious in their own right 100 I just I just I think macaroni pie is a casserole but the baked macaron cheese that we’re talking about that has that proper coagulation yeah to uh wetness ratio that’s not that’s not a casserole so the technique on your macaroni and cheese I almost think of it as a hybrid which is maybe my favorite style okay because you’re baking it but you don’t bake it for that long right no the whole point of baking it is just so it can like God I don’t know how to save it it just marries it mingles oh yeah wait say it in Farsi uh it’s like gotten together so yeah it’s married that’s a good way to think of it and like you broil the cheese on top yeah no I agree wait do you broil it or do you bake it I mean I mean the cheese gets broiled on top because it bakes but you’re not like when you when you press the oven are you hitting broil are you hitting 500 I think it depends on my mood sometimes sometimes sometimes I just bake it sometimes I broil it maybe you know what I might do if I remember correctly I think I bake it at four maybe like 450 and then the last two minutes I’m like all right screw it let’s roll it slam it I think that’s what I I’m pretty sure that’s the way that I if I ever tell someone to cook something on medium heat on a pan what I actually mean is like is put it on medium heat for two minutes stare at the pan get mad and crank it all the way up to high yeah and if something Burns add a little bit of water yeah that’s called cooking but I’d say yours is almost a hybrid because a lot of baked mac and cheeses that I’ve had including like really good ones at barbecue restaurants they will make the cheese sauce well some baked mac and cheeses you don’t even make a bechamel no you so if you just add it all it’s like egg based yeah sometimes I think it’s fun they’ll add egg they’ll add the egg the milk uh to the cooked cold pasta got egg milk cheese seasoning whatever mix that up top with cheese and bake it yeah I reckon that’s how especially a lot of barbecue restaurants that are like we’re doing numbers housing we’re doing a thousand portions of this a day we need giant trays of things so we can shove in an oven I reckon that’s how they’re probably doing it and I’ve had a lot of great Mac and cheeses like that but yours starts with almost a stovetop recipe yeah and you’re not adding extra because something that I’ll do if I make your style I’ll add extra cheese into the pasta like cheese has not melted yet I see what you’re saying so that when a bigger melts so you get that stringiness exactly but like I’ve noticed like macaroni and cheese isn’t necessarily like cheesy like stringy that well that’s not how you prefer it I don’t think that’s how I prefer I just the most of the mac and cheeses I’ve had my whole entire life and I’ve had a lot the cheese necessarily doesn’t always need to like be that like perfectly cheese pulley experience it’s almost not a Cheesy dish it’s a creamy dish yeah it’s seasoned by the cheese yes yes we have the dumbest con do you realize like kiwi just that was an epiphany moment for us but I liked it and we have the dumbest conversations in the world on here and I absolutely love I would rather be nowhere else yeah are you kidding me no that’s so true because because and most of the time that she’s just perfectly emulsified and you don’t have those little pockets of cheese that if you were baking it and you put those little cubes in there they would like stretch yep yeah but that that’s but you stovetop mac and cheese like you yeah you are making a stovetop mac and cheese you want the Comfort the creaminess of a stovetop mac and cheese but you also want like the aesthetic and the functionality and the cohabitation of a baked mac and cheese and you found yeah the perfect hybrid which to me maybe that’s the next step of mac and cheese Evolution did you drop your Chapstick oh my God you see that’s what you’re using Nivea again yeah it’s the weather yeah the weather um yeah again Switzerland it’s pretty good it’s a pretty good recipe I have you ever had a mac and cheese that you can like slice like like it’s not it’s not a full like Trinidadian macaroni like not intentionally not but like you go to you know a cookout a family get-together a potluck someone brings the mac and cheese that has been sitting there for like three four hours yeah and and you don’t scoop it there’s no run to it it’s a slicer there’s something super Pleasant about the density of that to me as a man who loves soft but chewy foods like Mochi I the ideal mac and cheese to me is maybe just made with mochi oh that would be a great test Mochi and cheese mochichi I’ve made that before chewy Cheetos oh yeah we did make that we did make that but um yeah I mean I I’ve been to a lot of potlucks and like friends givings yeah and just the disarray the disarray of mac and cheeses is just so fun and then everyone points at you because you’re the food guy slash Girl and they’re like try my Mac you ha Nicole you have to try I worked so hard in it and I’m like okay work harder next time why is it green so there’s a lot of that but uh but I kind of like how macaroni and cheese you know there is no right way to do it there’s wrong ways but there’s so many wrong ways I went to a let’s put my family on blast again uh Thanksgiving one year oh same thing happened somebody was like I got this new Mac and Cheese recipe Josh you’re a foodie you gotta try it I’m like okay and then I saw it in the pasta Nicole it was Bare there was there was no sauce on the pasta macaroni what they did no but there’s more oh wait there’s more they took cooked macaroni put it in casserole dish topped it with cheddar cheese more macaroni more cheddar cheese inexplicably just a ton of tomatoes and onions baked on top healthy it was like I I don’t even know how to describe it it was like if a Belarusian cookbook during wartime published a recipe for mac and cheese and they’re like this is it this is Belarusian or rations mac and cheese I don’t know we didn’t have any milk donkeys were killed no I didn’t tell them did now did you season the onion no just just raw and plain okay thank you did you think about cooking this so that the onions were warm no you just want a little sweat on them okay yeah interesting um no and so it’s just absolutely terrible and the funny thing is that your I brought a mac and cheese too and I was trying to be a little fancy um so I made like a wild mushroom gruyere baked mac and cheese we’ve all been there oh we all in end it’s this time oh yeah oh no the time was in the butter roasted mushroom oh and it was like fine but I was like nothing like a bomb ass mac and cheese correct and you know which one I’m talking about correct the yellow yeah the yellow and gotta be yellow and the brown on the top with the the oil Pockets from the cheeses that have lifted to the top that are also violently orange correct and then you you like you break the seal and then you see it and you look at all the flex like look at that seasoning like that is a proper seasoned dish and you’re like and you hear it and it’s like wow you gotta see Flex little flecks of red in your food or green whatever green yeah yeah or black it just put flex in your food they’re there because they taste good season your damn macaroni and cheese there’s one issue that we did not talk about what and it’s Nicole I don’t know if you’re ready for this controversial jelly how do you feel about breadcrumbs I don’t I don’t like bread crumbs on my Mac and Cheese I thought you just got I don’t feel about them at all unless unless uh it’s very rarely very rarely I will I will screw around with a little Ritz oh crumbled Ritz with a little bit of of cheese like a hard cheese like a Parmesan but that’s very rare I don’t I don’t need it it’s it’s pudding it’s putting lipstick on a beautiful Pig the pig was fine Peppa Pig was fine as she is we didn’t need to go see her up no no Peppa Pig is the planted Miss Piggy uh is Peppa Pig a child because Miss Piggy is sexually aggressive yeah yeah I think I can officially swear off breadcrumbs on mac and cheese I’m really proud of you because I know you like to do it for like aesthetic purposes yeah you don’t need it anymore no it’s like I’ve been there I’ve done that I I know that it doesn’t actually improve my life yeah at any point the correct thing to do is put a crust of more cheese on top correct that you can get the brown edges on yeah at the end at the end and the breadcrumbs they just they’re gonna soak up the grease now I want the grease my mouth should soak up the exactly bread crumbs don’t get the grease I get the grease I do I do yeah no more bread crumbs so so our answer is Honestly though that I think you found the next evolution in mac and cheese because to me baked represents community and tradition stovetop stovetop represents come from Nicole’s distract me the model posing stovetop represents comfort and convenience Nicole you have found the hybrid where you get all the Comfort the convenience the tradition and the communionship from all of that and I love that yeah if you’re listening to this podcast just make my mac and cheese and then report back yeah we’ll post a recipe uh somewhere on your front door go check your front door right now this recipe right there we’re dropping them off we’re going Untold we’ve been surveilling all of your houses uh if you’re listening on Spotify they’re watching you and feeding us the data [Music] on Monday November 28th we got some great deals for Cyber Monday if you head over to mythical.com we got 20 off site wide 30 off our Ultimate Gift guide and check out our new product the GMM plaid logo sweatshirt at mythicalsociety.com we’re taking 20 off monthly first and second degree memberships and 30 off monthly third degree memberships so this Cyber Monday head over to mythical.com for great deals on all mythical apparel cookware and more and mythicalsociety.com for incredible deals on all monthly memberships all right Nicole golden you and I have to say now it’s time to find out what other whack it is or rattling out there in the world all you crazy kids with your crazy ideas it’s time for a segment we call opinions are like casseroles [Music] Joshua she looks at me to follow my cue for this yeah cause you’re a natural born leader because I I’m a little bit crazy when it comes to saying if any of my casseroles ah Nicole you’re crazy you want to get us some voicemails I would love to let’s do it I all the time what’s their first time email or I enjoy your show uh I enjoy your shirt blueberries they’re in season blueberries very underrated excuse me very overrated out of seasoned blueberries underrated well blueberries are just about just as good regardless of you in January February or July August okay two quick cakes I was curious of your opinion though one where are you from but you didn’t tell us your name but where are you from because I love your accent he said it so matter of fact in a way that yeah he’s correct I don’t like blueberries they’re all was just fine which is I think what is taking they are like the most mid-berry this is the most funniest lukewarm take to me and in a way that I truly love because you look warm to him though no it’s not and I also believe it because um you know Nicole that thing that I do where I escalate intensity for no reason no you I’ll tell him why his takes correct we’ve conquered God not frozen iqf uh but by Chain literally changing soil conditions to be able to grow things year round because yeah California right it’s the most aggro rich um state in America one of the biggest agricultural regions in the world I thought you were like Angry Agro bro no so uh we can grow so many crops year round blueberries are I believe typically like a a cold weather uh Berry really right and grow in cold weather areas blueberries are native to America but we can just like kind of grow them Wherever Whenever because California has so many different microclimates and I know a lot of blueberries are grown outside of California and whatnot but just like we can get any produce at any time of year because we’ve conquered God the thing we can’t figure out is how to grow great out of seasoned Tomatoes they’re good out of season Tomatoes but man tomato seasoned Tomatoes transcendent all right back to him wait I have something oh Nicole has more I’m sorry I’m also on this podcast I know you paused for a long time you talk so much he forgot yeah real quick it was incredible I’d say yeah I looked at you you paused it’s like everybody melted away and it was only Josh speaking but yeah I like blue I don’t like blueberries continue wow wow Nicole profound I had more to say but now I don’t know what to say anymore do you want me to apologize no I’m sorry no your quick cakes I was curious of your opinion on one of these things that you see a lot walking pocket uh walking a walking taco it’s just nachos why would you call it anything else second is fruitcake of food or is it really just a holiday paper one thank you this was great yeah uh great opinions I didn’t mean to call your your take lukewarm walking taco AKA Frito pie eyes nachos I no it’s not no not for me same yeah I disagree with you Fritos are not stranger Fritos like he’s roughly correct I can see how he would get to his wrong opinion do you make your nachos with Doritos uh no I did not Nicole do you make your nachos with potato chips I do not Nicole do you make your nachos with Cheetos I do not they’re in mistake I do not agree with you know how like in school in a math class let’s bring you back there you would show show all the correct work show all the correct work and still get the answer wrong that’s where he’s at with walking taco because it’s mostly made with Fritos yeah Fritos are just a corn chip but it’s not it’s not the same it’s not a tortilla chips which to me is different but like there’s you know cheese and a saucy spice and meat on there it’s 99.9 similar it’s to nachos it’s been nacho-fied but it’s not a nacho yeah like humans share 99.9 DNA with chimpanzees but we’re different chimpanzee you know in a chimpanzee will just rip your face off and eat your children yeah you know Travis yeah you know about Travis the chimpanzee inspired the scene in the movie nope yeah Google that bro Google that yeah so um what was his other opinion oh uh fruitcake fruitcake not being a food simply a paper weight I like fruitcake I love how did fruitcake get so maligned it’s so good I like fruitcake I don’t even know if people send it in the holidays anymore yeah because it got such a bad rap now people are making weird stuff like stolen stolen stolen and and uh and panettone and I love don’t talk don’t talk about that it’s okay I love fruit cake is if you crushed a panettone into the density of a neutron star it is great and it’s so cute rum yeah so good I absolutely love fruitcake I will hear none none of that hi Josh hi Nicole hi Maggie this is Kyle from Portland uh Nicole on the which is the best ice cream flavor episode you recently said that you make charcuterie boards really well and uh I’ve always wanted to make a charcuterie restaurant that’s like subway called cutery um I have never worked in the Food Service before I have no idea how to run a restaurant but if you want to verbally commit to be my second employee after my girlfriend um just say yes thanks love your podcast is this person speaking to me specifically yeah I’d like to tag along though if I could just search um I don’t know if you’ll be able truly to pay me enough to just be your employee I would have to be some sort of manager Equity well you know you don’t have Equity too yeah I’d have Equity I would have buying power I would have a lot I you I can’t just be be able to liquidate stock when you want to yeah like I want to I want to be there making the big decisions I want to be board rooms yeah um I like the idea you’ll start sweeping pork fat off the floor but no five years no that’s what the girlfriend does what do you think what do you think of that idea though charcuterie so just a very premium form of Subway um I think it’s a good idea I believe a lot of cheese mongers already kind of do this but it’s not stylized as a Subway or in 800 Degrees but stylized like a Subway is that is what subway subway like there were sandwich shops before Subway the reason Subway took off in the reason places like Chipotle copy their model is because you could see all the fresh ingredients in front of you that was very new sure and you can point to what you want right yeah I’ve never been to a I’ve been a fancy charcuterie based sandwich shops that are all great but their stuff is very curated I can’t just like point at the Kalamata olive tapenade I can’t just point at the artichoke you know pesto really I can’t just point you can’t see them they don’t have them I don’t think I’ve ever been to a space like he’s talking about and it’s a cool idea it is a very cool idea and I think I think there’s Merit in it I don’t know exactly how to make it you know successful because there there is a next Evolution to Subway coming right sure we’ve seen that with stuff like sweet green stuff like kava Grill you know is the next evolution of Chipotle sweet green if you had like the Aesthetics of sweet green something that is elevated that’s very Millennial you have the app you have all this stuff it’s infinitely customizable yeah I had a very similar idea whenever I was first in culinary school actually so you’re you’re gonna you’re gonna Sue no no no no no no no no no no no no no never this is this is yours you’re seeing what I’m already no no I’m not suing anybody I don’t even have a legal I don’t even have a lawyer on retainer shut up my brother’s a lawyer personal injury that’s if I slip and follow these right just slip and fall while you’re sleeping the pork fat no like I was saying I think it’s a great idea and and if you can find a way to curate it and make it attractive and get butts in the door do it put up a neon sign that you can take Instagram pictures in front that’s like yeah yeah and it it’ll be it’ll say uh let me be your charcutie get it because it’s like sure cute charcuterie yeah we’ll Workshop the neon sign but you gotta have a neon sign or like or like or like um you I sharted at charcuterie okay I have one more thing to say about this hold on okay but like but like when you think of like eating like a like a like a boarded food a food with aborted food yeah aborted food I’m familiar yeah with the food the food of boards like you have to sell like like wine with it right yeah okay but like you have to be able to make that Subway model sexy because it’s a sexy food and it’s a shareable food and you’re probably gonna be either going on a day or like a meeting or like with a big group of people but you have to make your space attractive and it’s hard to do that whatever the other one like that kind of stuff is hard to make sex okay you follow the Wolfgang Puck model you start with spago your your Flagship you know you have the best record and then you can’t do that and then and then and then you get to Wolfgang Wolfgang Puck Express I also said wolf bang guck wolf Ben guck Express in LAX where you’re selling 15 tomato bisque that’s all you do and then that’s your Subway because that’s the money maker Panda did the same thing had the panda in went to Panda Express now Panda Express made them multi multi-millionaires okay yeah cutery we’re in baby I’ll officially invest five thousand dollars I’ll just show up hi Josh and Nicole hi uh my name is Mark and I have an opinion my opinion is that the only cream cheese that belongs on a bagel is don’t say it plain whipped cream don’t you dare say it none of that flavored stuff and none of that done with stuff only plain son love you guys son of a buy one say it too I want to say the full word um I love whipped cream cheese but I prefer block yes I’m saying no whipped cream cheese to me is in a front to cream cheese let me tell you it’s good with crackers it’s good with moth that’s fine crackers I eat in a bagel Nicole I don’t want the whipped cream cheese it’s good sometimes I understand the texture of it and not knowing that it was whipped just thinking that you bought cream cheese and a nice resealable container why are you so anti why what’s the big deal it dilutes the flavor when you mix Nicole when you expand volume decreasing density you dilute flavor right there’s literally less flavor molecules I want the denseness of the cream cheese and then you got and then you got you get a little whipped cream cheese mustache you got to put three inches whipped cream cheese on to equal one inch of normal cream cheese that’s just so much cream cheese to put on a pickle but I I really I am like vehemently against whipped cream cheese on a bit I like it sometimes Mark I’m Mark have an opinion and I’m Mark I can’t wait to do an episode of just this I’m just listening to people I can’t wait but no I I understand I understand the opinion I don’t necessarily love it but I get it and the only correct Bagel order is the cinnamon raisin bagel strawberry cream cheese maybe next week well it’s anti-semitic that’s the most self-adding Jew thing about me is that I will eat a cinnamon raisin pickle yeah that’s the one Josh hey guys this is Phil from Chicago well the suburbs of Chicago I can’t really say I’m from Chicago I’ve been standing’s from Evanston but um my opinion casserole is um if there’s no other dips available ketchup is suitable for regular chips I’m talking like okay ruffled Blaze or regular lays honestly um have to be a plane ship can’t be any others no Doritos no nothing else no extra flavors got to be straight up salt chip and ketchup I think it works my mother looks at me very strangely that might not be the only reason but not my business hope you guys are doing well bye Phil say hi to your mother for me Phil you don’t you don’t need your mother’s approval you’re a grown man living in the suburbs of Chicago you don’t need your mom’s your mom’s approval to dip your chips and ketchup you need ours I think it’s okay I’d rather just the best the best chip dip yogurt oh yeah yogurt Greek yogurt or regular yogurt not vanilla cinnamon raisin chips dipped in strawberry yogurt are my favorite no I as okay as I’ve gotten older Nicole and my tastes have matured I have now realized what I want out of the world out of my food eating experience I have learned that my life is improved by dipping more things in ketchup I will roast broccoli and just dip it in ketchup because it makes me happy because you know like kids love different music Oh I thought you meant like the voice like I’m seven years old that’s how we talked about it like I’m seven years old but I look like an old man I didn’t watch that movie because I I watched it with my high school girlfriend we was making out the whole time but I remember as we’re making out here in like Brad Pitt I mean like I’m I’m just seven years old I’m like yeah it’s a great film so yeah I love dipping playing chips and ketchup and I also hate dry foods like of course I love eating chips I don’t need to dip every single chip but as much as I love wetness I love dipping chips and ketchup this is this is perfectly valid and I’ve never thought to to verbalize it that way just reach for the yogurt instead fair enough you put hot sauce in the yogurt so what I do I put a I put paprika man pepper garlic powder and a little bit of whatever kind of like spicy vinegar I just got some Burberry spice so I put that in my yogurt well Ethiopian spiced yogurt I’m into that I’m into that all right is that our time do we have to stop I don’t want to do other things I like this place well on that note thank you for listening to a hot dog as a sandwich if you want to hear more from us here in the middle kitchen we got new episodes for you every Wednesday if you want to be featured on opinions or like casseroles you can hit us up on Twitter you know our handles already 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