are judges on food shows lying to you this is a hot dog is a sandwich ketchup is a smoothie yeah I put ice in my cereal so what that makes no sense a hot dog is a sandwich a hot dog is a sandwich Welcome to our podcast a hot dog is a sandwich I’m your host Josh sharer and I’m your host Nicole inaiti and today we are joined by Gail Simmons culinary expert food writer and television personality you may know her best as a permanent judge on Bravo’s emmy-winning series Top Chef since the show’s Inception in 2006 and I was right there watching the premier Nicole and she’s coming back to your TV on March 9th for Top Chef season 20 International All-Stars Edition set in London Gail welcome to the show hi hi guys I’m psyched to be talking to you too this is incredible thank you thank you I’d like to be talking to you uh psyched about Top Chef season 20 International All-Stars this is they should have just renamed it The Hunger Games because that’s what this reminds me of essentially that’s what it is yes I’m sorry Cutthroat to the death probably IP uh issues around that but tell me about the new season that is coming out on March 9th you’re taking All-Stars from countries all around the world that’s right so the most amazing thing about our little journey Our Little Engine That Could is that you know we started making Top Chef in 2006 we have now made 20 seasons and along the way different countries all over the world something like 29 countries all over the world up have licensed and made their own versions of Top Chef so there’s Top Chef Middle East and Top Chef Poland and Top Chef France in Italy and Top Chef Canada and Top Chef um yeah Lithuania I don’t know I mean really 29 of them in addition to our version which airs in you know 100 plus countries all over the world and so we were trying to figure out what to do for our 20th anniversary this kind of Milestone we can’t believe we’re still kicking around that’s right Milestone and we thought well wouldn’t it be amazing to gather winners and Runners up like the best of the best from all these different versions all over the world bring them to some sort of like neutral territory and shoot a top chef with them and that’s what we did so it’s called World All-Stars there are 11 countries represented all winners or finalists from their respective countries and me Tom and Padma hanging out in London for two months and it was amazing it was so fun it kind of changed everything it just felt really different and crazy and like something we’d never done before and I’m really excited for you guys to see it I’m I also Top Chef was my favorite sports season like my biggest Four Seasons go Top Chef then it’s like college basketball outdoor track and field yeah yeah yeah um most food competitions are like the best sports on TV no offense 100 but no there’s there’s a reason so a thing we wanted to talk about today is what makes Top Chef different as a cooking competition show because not only is Top Chef on its 20th season but every single season and every single competitor stays relevant like Top Chef is the only cooking competition show out there and I’m not just trying to butter your bread over here but that if you are yeah I will because I’ll absolutely guess I feel it I appreciate that yeah I mean every every I Chef testing it I know that’s a branded word I think it’s still a capital think we own the word but we did create the word I’m going to use I’m going to make Chef testing t-shirts then in that case but every contestant that’s in the top five I mean they are getting restaurant deals they’re getting opportunities incredible I’m one of those people my first date with my fiance was that Top Chef Boston winner May Lin’s restaurant uh Nightshade Boston report Boston downtown downtown the most beautiful restaurant oh I loved it I love her and you’re right uh you know we think about this a lot because we want to stay in our jobs and all of us not feel that person and I but all 150 of us really love making this show and so every year the question becomes how do we keep relevant how do we stay being able to do what we’ve created and and make it different and make it fresh and make people want to keep watching and I think there’s a number of things that have allowed us to do that I think you hit it on the head Josh in that it’s not about us it’s really about the contestants um our casting Department spends an inordinate amount of time I’m so wrong finding people who really speak to sort of our mission of the best of the best people on that like precipice of their careers who we know can change the industry and I think and also that they have a story to tell you know they need to be able to cook obviously at the highest level like these are all professionals these are not people who want to be chefs right these are people who have been practicing their craft for 10 plus years their chef to Cuisines they’re executive chefs they’re restaurant owners at this point on their own in their own right and they are um they have a specific point of view so they can cook but they also need to tell their story and you know those criteria have also changed and and sort of evolved and become even more important over the years as The Culinary industry has changed too so that’s the first thing we really make sure that it’s about them and and how to put them in a play a position just to make the most captivating you know storytelling and then also I think the fact that we’re not a studio show we’re on location we go around the world so every I mean this is the first season London was the first time we did an entire season abroad but we usually are in a different city in America every single season a different place all over the world for the finale we’ve been from Hawaii to Singapore to Italy um Mexico all over the place and so the backdrop is such a big piece of our story it um you know the backdrop really speaks to the food that we’re cooking the history the way we create our challenges it really becomes its own character in a lot of ways and it’s what differentiates every season you know we don’t tell the same story in Charleston that we tell of course skinny we don’t tell the same story in Boston that we tell in Colorado um because the ingredients the agriculture the chefs who built those cities The Immigrant populations that try traversed into those places through trade routes over hundreds of years like inform the food you eat in that place which inform the food that we’re going to get them to cook and learn and so every season is really different and that sounded sort of weirdly like a geography lesson but also that’s part of it is different right so uh I’m really like I think you know it’s the hardest part about our show because it we you know every year we have to start fresh and every year we have to build our kitchen all over again and pick up our families and um move to some unknown location but we also get to really like plant roots and learn about that place both on the show and off and I think that’s what kind of makes us who we are I think it’s such an important piece of what keeps us going yeah have you ever thought about having two internet chefs be on Top Chef Tell your counseling director Nicole Nicole well you know I know you guys know a lot about food I’ve listened to yourself and I love talking about food with you and hearing you guys talk about food but really this is about like the restaurant industry right absolutely yeah it’s really about Pros in professional kitchens I don’t call myself a chef I’ve worked in the restaurant industry for 20 plus years and [Music] um more 24 years at this point I’m really really old and I would never call myself a chef Tom is a chef he’s a chef chef he’s the you know the demigod of chefs but our show is about really um opening that kitchen door and seeing the real life and and the skills of true professionals are we’ve had franchises over the years right we did top shift Junior and Top Chef desserts and Top Chef Masters and Top Chef amateurs amateurs I mean you guys aren’t total amateurs or something why it was people who are not Pros cooking every single night online yeah but that’s what our Flagship is really about it’s about the trenches you know and that’s one of the things that I love about it so much is that level of professionalism so we get asked all the time we call ourselves chefs we both worked in restaurants but primarily yeah very very sparingly though yeah exactly that’s not what you do now exactly right and so but a lot of people yeah we’ll we’ll get questions just like why don’t you ever go on Top Chef one we’re not eligible because we’re not that type of chef but two I would get kicked off immediately and I would get kicked off specifically because your food’s bad bye Tom not because my food’s done no no like I fully believe that we can cook with the best of the best but the differences are I remember there was one season there was a person who identified as a quote private Chef in Napa he was a young guy and we in the industry know that the term private Chef means a lot of different things to a lot of different people so there was a um God I think there were like three different kitchens but they were doing it was the first episode it might have been a season where you started with like 30 contestants and then immediately cut half of them yeah well we did do that once God now you’re really stretching my brain I’m telling you I’ve watched I’ve rewatched every season it might have been in in in Texas I think in Texas we did that we started the first episode was like yeah 30 chefs in San Antonio and we immediately got rid of half of them and that’s where the season started and I think it was like Wolfgang Puck time and then another Chef we’re like I’m gonna put you through a technical proficiency round to weed you out and Tom had them like breaking yeah here’s fabricating chickens it wasn’t fabricating chickens no oh worse breaking down Primal cuts of beef oh and so yeah and so there’s Pizza like you said he’s I mean I’ve read his book think like a chef um total chef chef guy from New York totally and uh you know if I were faced with a butcher knife and hey break down the Primal cuts of beef I’d be like hold on let me watch a 40-minute YouTube video about it and then do poorly because that’s how we yeah even having information yeah playing a fish it’s like I can do it but it’s not something that I do do every day that’s it but that’s it you nailed it Nicole that’s what it’s about it’s about muscle memory it’s about people who are like it’s wrote for them right like they see people who are on the line cooking their guts out every single day and also lead like I was a cook for a long time and I’m a expert I’m an I am a professional in the industry but I’m not a chef a chef to me is the person who leads a kitchen team and if you’re not doing that you could be an amazing home cook you could be amazing Entertainer you could be an amazing knowledgeable person as I like to think I am but I am not a chef right it’s just a different it’s a different set of muscles it’s a different part of your brain and that creates like one incredible real very real drama on the show again I’m just gonna gush screw it I don’t care what we’re talking about that’s fun okay no a moment that I think about a lot is uh Kristen Kish who one of to me the best Top Chef contestants of all time um fully throwing herself under the bus with uh Josie um when Josie came back first thank you so much that was a very big moment for us it was crazy and and I mean none of that is staged none of that’s pre-produced that’s nothing no way we could never it first of all Tom would walk off the set in a second because he is you know our our North Star but none of us would want that that’s not how our show worked I don’t know I can’t speak to any other show any other food competition but our show is is not scripted it’s not planned and if our producers try to step in and um suggest something we all just give him the finger most days oh so much we gotta Nicole we need to have that attitude here who do we give them Maggie right here but I’m sorry no that was a joke but now it’s it’s on your fingertips it doesn’t feel right but no there was this one I don’t know if you know this moment so it’s during restaurant Wars okay again I know a recipe ten I want to say in Seattle I think so I think it was yeah yeah and um the team split up and then they have to make it yeah like if if the finale is my Super Bowl restaurant Wars is like my honor like my All-Star game and a dunk contest okay more Sports references my favorite okay um but Josie who is working working as uh Kristen kish’s is the headshots of the restaurant Josie messes up a dish Okay and like kind of waffles amidst the judges being like well I was told to do this but and you could tell she was kind of trying to protect herself and then Kristen just steps up and she’s just like I’m the head chef I should have had a better eye on it I should have been tasting while I was expoing you’re right I should go home I’m out and then battles her way back through Last Chance Kitchen which what another freaking wow I love people like that yeah yeah it ends up taking it you know and that was a momentous like season for all those reasons because for us that was the first time that that had happened really where where I mean other people had put themselves up on the chopping block and backed down but we all it was mostly always because they had sort of deserve to do it right like they but you know in Kristen’s mind as the chef that she is she was like I’m the head of this kitchen I take the blame that’s the job of a chef you celebrate when when things go great you celebrate the people under you and when things go crappy you take the fall like that’s that’s what a great chef does and Kristen was like you know what you’re right she screwed up but I should have known better because I was leaving her and I’m out I can’t like um you know she kind of fell on her sword yeah but then she battled back through Last Chance Kitchen came back to the finals and won the whole thing and that was the first time that that had ever happened and that food to us because Last Chance Kitchen 10 seasons ago was still um a social experiment you know it was something no one else had done and we were trying to do this sort of you know simultaneous online competition with our eliminated chefs we didn’t know if it would ever work or be relevant and when she won and came back and then won the whole thing it sort of proved our our hypothesis that that could really become something that could be integrated into the show so she was you know just a warrior a warrior human 100 and now I mean she’s off you know doing her own thing one opening up restaurants but also hosting multiple shows now yeah yeah she wrote a cookbook she she shot the proposal for her cookbook in my living room no oh my God she wrote half the book and this is a testament to the relationships that you um Forge with contestants after the fact she wrote she she wrote half the book she had a a co-author who helped her write the book who was based in Montreal and my husband’s family’s from Montreal and she wrote half the book literally in my husband’s childhood bedroom like she was staying in his childhood bedroom that’s incredible to work on the book with this woman in Montreal and so she would at night we would get like texts from her showing us you know my husband’s like stuffed raccoon from when he was 12 years old that’s incredible and then his mom would be texting us being like um I caught Kristen raiding the fridge at two in the morning making like grilled cheese sandwiches you know funny she found the white Anchovies and she was making in a month exactly so she was great she’s she’s amazing uh how many other TV food competition judges do you think have relationships like this with you know the people who have competed on it this seems really that’s like a Top Chef exclusive thing you think it’s a good question I’ve never asked here’s the thing again I think a lot of other competition shows that have different relationships for from the get-go sure with their contestants uh where they all kind of can hang out during the taping or some competitions are just every episode stands alone so the true contestants coming in you know chopped is like new people every single episode with us we sort of like you know go to a remote location with these people for two months but we have zero contact with them until the show has not only been shot but then aired we very specifically and our our producers very specifically do not let us alone in a room with them they are babysat from the second they wake up in the morning till the second they go to bed we are completely kept separate from them because we don’t want to get to know them we don’t want to have any relationship with them while they’re cooking we just want to know about their food we don’t care if their wife left them if they had a baby two months ago if they’re suffering from some sort of other trauma totally we want to be impartial because that’s the only way to get to a fair um final results in our minds it’s the only way to play the game well and we’ve tried we’ve thought about it a million ways and it’s just no other way works for us so we keep so completely detached and away from them that we aren’t even allowed to look them in the eye unless we’re on camera and they don’t even keep us in the same building most of the time except for when we’re in the kitchen or when we’re at judge a table or at a challenge so it’s only afterwards you know after it airs even we don’t even engage with them on social media or anything until after the show has aired wow and only that because we also then people see it and and they think that people don’t understand how little contact and they don’t even though once the show airs it’s many months I’m sorry once the show is shot there’s many months until it airs of course and all the decisions have already been made but when things come out or people get to know them while they’re watching the show they don’t know that timeline and it can just be not good we like to just keep things fairly clean but afterwards we do have the chance to get to know them we’re off often at events with them we reach out we you know celebrate them we do lots of things with them and that’s really special because there are so many of them now over 20 Seasons who have become big parts of our lives and huge parts of the restaurant industry so huge parts of my lives yeah I know first aid and yeah with an engagement there so we did it I mean thanks May Lynn yeah I mean honestly it’s extraordinary yeah um do you think so that level of like realism and the judging and you not getting to know the contestants in that way it’s funny because the audience is getting to know them in that way while you’re not that’s so true and so you almost end up imma bring up controversial most controversial finale of all time Nina Compton versus Nicholas elmy yeah that’s it and I mean that was and I remember why was it so controversial all right so Nina Compton I mean one incredible Chef uh and she had been dominating the entire season Nicholas El May from Philadelphia has a restaurant out there called Laurel uh super super Molecular Gastronomy I’m gonna make nine different types of carrots and different textures and whatever okay um But like everyone the whole season is just like Nina is gonna absolutely smoke this finale and then she really sort of like bit off a lot more than she could chew not only that finale I believe it was like either it was I think maybe a five course meal and she was like I’m gonna make seven courses and due to the rules um y’all were like well we’re only judging five because that’s what this was about and so some of her food like had to suffer because I made so much stuff oh and so Nicholas ends up winning That season and everybody was like can’t you see that she was the best chef the whole time and deserved to win it was like but we are playing it by the rules that we have set out from the beginning yeah well here’s the thing you’re you’re right and we still go back you know in the lore of the show and talk about that finale so often uh for a lot of reasons uh you know it’s there’s like precedence for like the Supreme Court you know and it sets presses um that we have to continue and here’s the exact thing about an example like like you suggest that season season 11 it was our New Orleans season we went to Hawaii for the finale and the issue becomes I think that another thing that makes the show special is that that’s exactly where the tension lies in the show between viewer and us we are the taste buds right you can’t taste the food like other shows you can hear their song you can see their fashion designs you can’t taste the food so you rely completely on us for that that sensory experience meanwhile all you see is once it’s all strung together and edited together you’re seeing their name their narrative up front before you see their food every episode right we meanwhile have seen nothing of what you see until the same time that you’re seeing it so when it’s happening when we shoot it four months before we don’t know any of that stuff we don’t know any of the what’s happening in the kitchen what’s happening in the house what’s going on in their lives all we see because we keep so separate from them is what’s in front of us at every challenge and if we are to judge cumulatively over the course of a season it becomes completely unfair if we were to say well yes you’re right Nina one more challenge is beat him more times in the past then how do you judge the um the actual qualities of the dish in front of you because then it becomes well she really screwed up today but she did so well yesterday that she should win well that isn’t fair it has to be our judging on our show has to just be what is in front of you every day and every day you get a clean slate and you start fresh otherwise we’re basing it on subjectivity on if we like the person on personal bias or on well he won four challenges but even though today he totally screwed up we’re just gonna give it to him so what’s it worth to like what’s the point right in in trying to do well every day what’s the motivation there and on the reverse it’s true too what if someone can’t find their groove for a couple of challenges but then they do and they nail it and they put it in front of you and you’re like yeah well this is awesome and it’s by far the best dish at the table but Nina did better yesterday so we’re gonna give it to her like that doesn’t make sense either right we’ve tried to think about this we’ve tried to think of a formula a million ways to do it otherwise and it’s impossible because it doesn’t speak to the challenge that we’re giving them that day in that moment and that was an example Nina versus um you know versus Nicholas all those years ago of how we had to stick to the rules or else it wouldn’t have been Fair do you know that we sat at that judges table until six o’clock in the morning get the hell out of it no way it’s like choosing a new person yes I was um almost eight months pregnant it was a big deal so painful but we could not we could not get up until we were all on the same page and really felt like we were making a decision that felt right and and yes there was in my heart things I wanted to say or you know to give it to Nina but in the end we knew that that episode that dinner that meal those dishes that particular day Nicholas had been more consistent and he had delivered a little bit more of a stronger cohesive meal and that had to count right so it’s safe to say so nerdy of meetings no it wasn’t nerdy it was so passionate I loved it so it’s safe to say you guys don’t really lie on the show we don’t because you can’t we don’t again honestly like I would say I would say you know it would be easier but we don’t want to lie because like look what we’ve done we there’s something that’s worked and here we are we’re still here I feel like it goes against the ethos of the show and you three as judges it just doesn’t make sense to lie because everyone’s like oh the food is cold or dishes are like or like no it’s not cold that see I had no idea I thought the food would be cold I thought I can’t speak to other shows yeah but I might put like a garnish at the end or like something you know like when time’s up they still put a little garnish so they cheat but you’re like okay whatever but you guys don’t do that timers go off when we say 45 minutes or two and a half hours that’s exactly what they get and our our rad and his team are so Vigilant that food is eating hot so you know Padma and I joke but it’s true that like if my dress isn’t done up or if I’m in the bathroom or if I’m busy sending an email when that timer goes off then I don’t eat like it doesn’t matter that food’s coming out the second it gets set down it’s not fair to them compromises their food on our very first finale season one we had an issue about the temperature of the food and it’s changing the consistency of that dish right okay food sits it gets it congeals it changes it weeps it melts it does a million different things and that first season we felt that because it sat around to wait for the lighting to be good and to wait for us to be ready that their food was compromised and Tom looked up and was like this is now happening again I can’t do it it’s not fair to them they’ve just worked their butts off they are sweating they are putting everything into it we have to respect what they’ve done and if we’re gonna be serious and want to get the quality of Chef testing that we are striving to get on the show then we need to prove to them that we give a a crap a poop crap I think crap is within our guidelines okay I don’t know I’m trying I’m stretching no I respect it so it’s so hard for us we were hoping to catch you in a big lie about how all the food’s cold and how it’s all food stylist tricks yeah but no I mean we so you know we make a YouTube cooking show and we’ll do a lot of competitions have you seen it that means so much oh my gosh you gotta come judge we gotta see what it actually takes Nicole all but Dumber destroy you so hard I’m gonna sabotage I’m gonna destroy you ready no no I’m gonna throw salt in your food I’m gonna throw sugar in yours [Laughter] so I mean you know you know uh you need to get beauties of the food and you’re trying to set up the lights and things get cold thumbnail photos Beauty photos you gotta pick get a picture of your own face wearing the same shirt you were wearing two days ago yeah it’s is that Relentless commitment that makes a good product and the thing I think about in food media especially today is the answer is always more not better you know it’s always like we need um we’re not calling listen I love Food Network I grew up on Food Network I still watch it it’s like over the top yeah yeah I mean it’s um and I think the president of Food Network once said it’s not our job to teach people how to cook it’s our job to get people to watch TV sure it’s totally true and we’re trying to get views on YouTube um and I know Top Chef is similarly expanding its brand into like a kind of Top Chef expanded universe I mean you’ve uh hosted Top Chef amateurs Top Chef Just Desserts what’s the future of top chef and how do you keep that consistency I mean that’s the hardest question I you know I I I joke that in season four we were in Chicago and our executive producer at the time creator of Top Chef Andy Cohen came to visit us on set um uh he you know he was our our Network executive at the time wow I and we we all went out for dinner we’re sitting around the table and it’s season four which by the way I thought would never happen and the fact that we got to season two was like a complete Triumph and we’re sitting at the table and I’m like Andy like how long could you imagine the show going on for like realistically like what’s my future here dude am I gonna have a job tomorrow or like should I start you know I had a different job I was working at Food Wine magazine and um you know should I keep the plan B what are we doing here uh and he was like I don’t know Season 11 he sort of said very nonchalantly and I laughed in his face I was like that is ridiculous that’s the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard I’m not doing this till season 11 there’s no way I can’t imagine that anyone is going to want us in their living rooms season 11. um and sure enough we’re making season 20 and we’re still deep in it and love our jobs uh so I think part of our future is not sticking too closely to what we believe our future will be and it’s to taking the temperature of the industry evolving and changing our show which we have done so many times you know we went into a pandemic and the restaurant industry basically disintegrated in front of our eyes and we sat down and said okay how can we address this and still make TV that feels relevant and that we’ll bring our community together and we’ve totally reinvented the show that season and did it somehow in a bubble you know it was a hell of a season too I remember you know and we cried every day like we literally it was the most difficult challenge we’ve ever faced because the world was like at war in five different ways sure and um but also our industry was in Peril and that sounds dramatic but it was true it truly was it is but it you know the pandemic exposed so many cracks in so many systems and the restaurant industry certainly was one of them so I think part of it is just being true to the industry that we serve and seeing where it goes and taking cues from there and then just you know giving people an escape because I love there’s nothing more I love like lots of people who are in the food industry like you guys watch the show and and understand what we do but to me the most satisfying thing too is for someone to come up to me you know on the subway or in a grocery store and say I don’t even know why I watch you guys because like I don’t like to cook I’m not a foodie we get that I don’t I don’t have anything but it’s their sport right to your point and um so I think it’s making sure that we’re inclusive and that word means a thousand things inclusive um in terms of our industry in terms of equality in the world include in terms of being able to tell diverse stories but also inclusive to a wide audience that like people can watch it with their families but also they can watch it at two in the morning um when they you know are I don’t know doing other activities I don’t know like there’s a million folding laundry I did a lot of 2AM Top Chef Industries I don’t know coming home after a bar like whatever they’re doing or in a pandemic they can go back to season one and watch it and find comfort in that um but also we can teach them some stuff and we’re not trying to be like uh condescending or educational but I do think there’s a piece of us that like empowers you to feel better about you know the world and it’s hopeful and it’s also uh you know fun because at the end of the day doesn’t matter if you’re not a foodie or love to cook or give anything about food at the end of the day we’re all human we all have to eat three times a day so everyone has an opinion and how do you engage that and keep it going and that’s kind of our challenge which we hope to keep doing here’s the top chef season 50 Gail we’ll see you back in 2014 Walkers Tom and I will just be like Padma will be like she’ll have an automatic one she’ll be nice zipper Vespa all the food is gonna be virtual reality and little pills exactly we’ll be right there with you [Music] foreign you just got two kittens a little while back and I gotta say you seem happier now that you have those little guys running around I am happy and so are Missy and Harvey because one I am quite the loving owner and two we use pretty litter which changes color to detect illnesses including urinary tract infections kidney issues and so much more he’s called Harvey because he looks like Harvey Dent because he has like two different colored persons he’s very cute yep pretty litter is not your conventional kitty litter they’re crystals trap odor instantly so I never have to worry about cat bathroom smell when I’m heading over to Nicole’s also Harvey’s a girl did you know that no that’s a cool girl name and my favorite part is how it helps me to keep my space clean no huge litter containers to keep and no mess Gathering up just small bags of litter shipped right to my door that last long and minimize mess pretty litter’s super light Crystal base also minimizes dust plus the crystals last up to a month which means less scooping and fewer trips to the garbage can pretty litter helps keep my cats healthy and keeps odors down you and your cat are going to love pretty litter as much as I do go to prettylitter.com hotdog to save 20 on your first order that’s pretty litter.com hotdog to save 20 pretty little.com slash hot dog you don’t need luck to find the best St Patrick’s Day Foods the people over at Spork did the hard work for you that’s right head over to sport.com for the Roundup of everything from the best beers to die green and for the best corned beef hash that’s sport.com s-p-o-r-k-e-d.com sport.com [Music] well Gail and Josh we’ve heard what you have to say now it’s time to find out what other wacky ideas are rattling around there out in the twitterverse it’s time for a portion we call opinions are like casseroles [Music] let’s get sold Nicole you want to take the first time all right it sounds good we’ll go uh let’s see at let let chacho feed you putting quote Cotija cheese on street tacos is a crime and don’t call it Mexican at this point also putting cumin in a dish because it’s quote Mexican talking about overuse of Cotija cheese and cumin in Mexican food how do you feel Gill okay let me think about this I I do think there tends to sometimes be an overuse of cumin more than cheese as I have seen it but I do think that cheese should not be everywhere you don’t want it on every Taco there are certain tacos that do not need cheese and I think is just to smother everything in cheese whether it’s gotita or anything um so I can get behind it but also it yeah I mean a little cheese it’s a good cheese there is a place there is a place for the cheese there’s a place for human but you need to have a light and delicate hand do you know what I mean oh sure because often I think more about proportion than overuse yeah in my humble opinion an intention to me it’s like why is it like my my favorite yes when I read the Cotija thing my favorite application kotija nataka right now is at a spot called Los torados never there’s uh tacos torados most people in America would call them taquitas um but they are the the flautas shaped tacos torados and they are smothered in multiple different kinds of salsa and then the final thing to go on is just a hefty dusting of cotijis so the kotia is the first thing that hits your palate and then you’re just like kind of blasted by the freshness and the acid with the crunch it eats like um like Pani Puri like sure explodes yeah juiciness so yeah and then yeah it sounds great cumin is uh that’s really Taco Bell’s fault humans used in Mexican cooking but yeah I wouldn’t say it’s like the star flavor yeah it’s Lowry’s taco seasoning people associate that yeah for whatever it’s like black olives and green onions it’s like yes at some point white people in the 70s started throwing it on their quote-unquote Taco dips and now it’s a thing yeah yeah so I get it that’s a good opinion yeah okay Alyssa period Orozco says animal fat is disgusting the leaner the better okay if you don’t care about Flavor that’s correct yeah I love cooking things in Tallow I love cooking things and it’s butter considered an animal fat I’d say so yeah it’s not necessarily fruit is dairy I mean it’s not protein yeah it’s not right from uh marbling yeah Lardo tallo Schmaltz give me a give me it all give me it all but not even that just cooking a piece of meat there is inherently fat in it and you can’t cook the meat otherwise and the meat will have no flavor without fat fat holds the favor molecules so the more marbling in a piece of steak for example the more fat in a chicken thigh that is why a chicken thigh inherently takes on and is more flavorful than a chicken breast which is incredibly lean and basically like a uh a piece of white bread there’s no flavor there sure you can add flavoring but it doesn’t taste like chicken um and there’s just that’s that’s where the flavor lies let alone the ability to keep moisture in so if you enjoy no flavor and also um eating really really dry almost unswallowable things then no fat is for you yep and may you know what maybe they’re living maybe they’re just dipping their chicken breast into a cup of water and and and that’s all there’s for that I’ve started I start in my in my home I’ve started pulling away from like uh oils so I don’t use like like what is it called hydrogenated oils or like grapeseed oils and stuff I’ve started removing it from our diet and now we do we do butter Tallow avocado oil or olive oil so it’s just pressed oils and like animals yeah we don’t do we don’t do any more neutral oils in my house that is almost all that I cook with and I’m ashamed because it’s just so easy and I’m trying to easy get off the all we were all raised uh from watching Food Network shows that olive oil is what you should be cooking with all the time no matter what you’re doing yeah and then at some point I like red pilled myself and I was like my my tipping moment was watching a Food Network chef and again I love Food Network I love food network but I watched it never Chef making like an Asian like it was a Korean recipe and they’re like start with a glug of olive oil and it was like I don’t think historically that was part of the Korean cooking Cannon and it’s very strange that you’re doing that um Schmaltz though is the best animal fat to cook with it’s so unique I’m learning how to use Schmaltz more it needs to be more readily available yeah go to your butcher though your butcher yeah if you have a good quality butcher I do I do they usually keep switchmalt or can can get it yeah I go to the Sephardic butchers they don’t really do that stuff but I’ll find a good Ashkenazi one you want the next opinion Josh I got it I got it uh at father of imps diced jalapenos mixed with grape jelly smothered on a hot dog it’s so good jalapeno grape jelly hot dog Gail where we at personally I am not big into grape jelly number one number two but if that’s okay like it has its place for sure with some peanut butter I’m all for it but also I don’t you know I’m not a salty sweet mixer by Nature it’s not my go-to but I will say this I’m willing to accept that combination mostly because my daughter who’s nine years old and very opinionated about I wonder where she got that from yes I’m actually the easiest eater in my whole family to say the least judgmental most easy-going eater in my family saying something because wow cooking for them is a pain in the butt that’s not true they’re actually really good eaters all to say one of her favorite things to eat since she was about four years old that she created herself is a bagel with strawberry jam and capers cute and I’m like girl that is problematic in this that’s my kind of girl right there no I love that she is like mama if you do another cookbook this is in it it is amazing and I tasted it and I get why she likes it because there’s that hint of salt and brininess and then the strawberry and the curviness and the whole thing it’s kind of good so you know what um father events yeah I’m not gonna knock it because I haven’t tried it that’s fair I this this Bears similarities to a delicacy that I grew up go ahead which are you know what it is Swedish meatballs no no no it is uh I don’t even know if it has a name but you take a little smokies Hillshire Farms oh yeah jump into a crock pot with equal parts barbecue sauce and grape jelly oh we did apricot jam Oh Canada apricot jam which is kind of weird but also not terrible yeah that’s good I would eat this the salty with the sweet I mean it it kind of is a lot of sweet sausages out there in the world that I do love I would absolutely eat this no problem I you know what I would do I wouldn’t eat it with a bun do you think these are fresh jalapenos or do you think they’re canned jalapenos I think the Pickled canned ones pickled canned ones for sharing and he’s getting some of the brine in there yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I would I would simmer the hot dog for anywhere between 10 minutes to four hours that’s your problem simmer it you need to I’m telling you store it and throw it in the pan now I want because I want the purple the food dye from the grape jelly to or at least the concord grape juice to seep in I want to see like a instead of a smoke ring like a grape jelly ring uh Jesse grave period s says Takis dipped in Nutella is actually delicious Takis Caleb you had a Taki oh yes again I have a nine-year-old daughter oh who loves a Taki she loves a flaming hot Cheeto she tried to get me to buy these blue Takis the other day and I’m like absolutely not I have to have some sort of standard I put into your body tell her they’re not even that good they don’t they’re not like they can’t even talk about it um you know again it’s kind of the same thing I haven’t tried it I love Nutella I understand the lure of a Taki I bet that it sort of you know makes it a little creamy it sort of coats your mouth so that the the acidy flame is not as yeah that front forward uh you know I love you trying to justify this I like I don’t know I mean it’s incredible yeah you can say it sounds bad it sounds terrible yeah it sounds like what I want to know is how he got there in the first place I know so he probably oh they whatever they probably had one of the Nutella with the bread Dippers oh that’s what happened and then their brains you know you know whenever you have like intrusive thoughts like they were like I don’t need these breadsticks I’m gonna dip a turkey in there and then the interesting thoughts one and then they typed the stuff and we responded yeah we gave it our time and our energy yeah you don’t think they went through multiple different Dippers no I want to dip talkies and just condensed milk now Takis and condensed milk because it’s the chocolate that’s bothering me on this right I don’t like chocolate and acid to me I just don’t like the combo I don’t even like chocolate dipped strawberries all that much and so that’s where the takis are bumping me but you just get the sweet and the creamy on there fat someone once said fat transmits flavor you know uh we got one more um this one says question specifically for Gail who is the greatest top they didn’t even know how they know she was gonna be on the show uh who if you had to say there was one Top Chef contestant if you put everybody together in one competition who do you think would win and you gotta hurt some feelings here you go oh God that’s crazy I gotta pick one because I’m really curious getting hives just thinking about you asking this question I know that is I mean okay I’m gonna say something that might be controversial here okay it just it might be I have a few opinions I mean there’s a lot of people here but let’s say if you mean like people ask have asked us a lot like why don’t you do a Winner Circle competition and the main reason is because they’re all winners and like this season has a lot of winners but it’s International so it’s different but the reason that our you know 19 seasons of winners we’re not doing one is Because unless they all do it like they’ve already won they don’t need why would they risk losing actually one and they can just like say I’ve won and walked away but I will say if we put them all together I’m going to say Stephanie Eiser Stephanie Izard hell yeah I think maybe and there’s a lot of reasons like I could justify a lot of people here but I’m gonna say Steph because she went on after us to win everything she became a food my best new Chef she won a James Beard award then she won like some Iron Chef Gauntlet situation then she won some Championship other thing like she just is a pro heavyweight Champion wow and she not only deeply understands because I’ve now eaten also at all of her restaurants and she has a million I mean she is like an incredibly successful chef and restaurant to her but she inherently understands how we as humans like want to eat and she nourishes that part of us that is like Soulful and interesting and crazy and delicious but she also is like the craziest Warrior professional killer fighter human damn with the biggest smile you’ve ever seen so that’s my vote right now I don’t know I’m making it up but I do believe my own words I again Top Chef season 50 that’s going to be it Stephanie Izard versus the world I love that uh and we gotta go to the girl on the goat um oh I’m sorry you’re cool yeah I actually haven’t been to the LA one so Josh again thank you so much for being on the show everybody March 9th Bravo Top Chef World All-Stars in London sounds like an incredible season uh Gail you got anything else to plug where can people find you thank you I mean often in my pajamas but also um I don’t know at Gail Simmons eats on Instagram Gail simmons.com but um I’m around I have a few things up my sleeve this year so just keep watching and also you know stay tuned in London because we have the greatest time on top of Chef 20. um I’m clear now and that there’s this on the calendar uh and thank you all so much for watching and listening to a hot dog is a sandwich we got new Audio Only episodes every Wednesday and then YouTube video drops on Fridays and if you want to be featured on opinions I like casseroles you can hit us up at 833 dog pod one the number again is eight three three dog pod one Gail you gotta call the hotline and leave us a voicemail I think I have to I have opinions nice uh all right and for more mythical kitchen we’re on YouTube new videos every week you know the deal see you all next time [Music]