Josh, you need to stop using my scissors to cut up your food. Well, how the heck am I supposed to cut my office galbi into perfect bites? There’s meat juice all over my packages. This is an intervention. And this is “A Hot Dog is a Sandwich.” Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what? That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. What? Welcome to our podcast, “A Hot Dog is a Sandwich” to the show. We break down the world’s biggest food debates. I’m your host Josh Scherer, And I’m your host Nicole Enayati. And today, we have two very special guests joining us together in their new cookbook, “Koreaworld.” They’ve taken an insider’s look at the exciting revolution of Korean food through the stories and recipes of chefs and home cooks alike. Please welcome Deuki Hong and Matt Rodbard. Whoo! Hey, guys. What is up? What an honor to be here, love the show. No, thank you so much for having us, man. Thank you for being here. And thank you for having us at your cookbook release party a few days ago. It was litty, it was litty. Yes. It was so litty it was litty, as the kids say, yeah. That we never spoke to each other, because I was ripping ube horchata filled with rum. That’s right, that’s right. Yes. There was rum there, I didn’t see you, but I heard your fit was, let’s go over your fit check, because the fit check, Yeah. Like, indexed high with the audience. Let me say my part of it. Wow. ‘Cause he just told me, like, “Oh yeah, that guy was me.” I was like running around, saying hi, and all of our friends, Sure. It was a litty party. Yes, yes, yes. And I see this guy, he’s just like, great fit, and for me, I just gotta recognize. I always recognize game, yeah. Sure, real recognize real. I get it. I don’t know if I’m real, but I was just like, “Dude.” Sure, sure. “Awesome fit,” or something along the lines, like, “Dude, it all works, man.” Yeah, we dapped each other up, Yeah. And said no words to each other. And then I’m out. Which is how it should be. Are you still wearing your kitty cat anklet? Yeah, yeah, I had the, Oh? I don’t know if you saw. Can you show it up? Oh no, right now? No, oh, it’s not No, I don’t just wear it. A casual anklet? No, I don’t break out the anklet for a Tuesday podcast. Sorry. Sorry. But y’all have an incredible cookbook, and it’s the follow up to “Koreatown,” the cookbook. We have titled this podcast, “Does Korea Have the Best Food in the World?” We know it is a foolhardy errand. Well. Yes. To try and measure one culture against another. Absolutely, yeah. However. We’re gonna do it. We gotta do it. We’re gonna do a little bit. Yeah. I’m clocking out. We’re gonna do a little bit. I gotta… But no, tell me about why Korean food means so much to y’all, and what makes it special? Well, I’m Korean. Yeah? Nice. And I am not, just know this stuff, just to be there, yup. It means so much to me, I mean, it’s my culture. Sure. I grew up with it, you know, my mom made sure, like, language and food was something that we never forgot. Sure. And I think she knew at an early age, like, “Hey, you’re gonna learn English, you’re gonna eat a lot of hot dogs and hamburgers in your life. When we come home, we only speak Korean, and we only eat Korean food.” Great. So, yeah. I mean, for me, as a journalist on the projects, I’ve really just found, like, the cuisine is not just delicious, like galbijjim and jeyuk-bokkeum, dishes like that, but listen, the culture, there’s pages and pages to write about this amazing, you know, moment we’re having in America, in the world around Korean food. Sure. So, there’s like, both the food, and then, like, the more journalistic side, so, yes, it is the most amazing food in the world, and probably the most interesting food in the world, I would say. There was a phrase So interesting. That I’d never heard that I learned from “Koreaworld,” actually, is it Hallyu? Yeah, sure, Hallyu, yeah. Tell me about that process. Like, I would say direct translation is Korean Wave, but what we’re talking about is, sure, the food, the culinary revolution, as we put it in “Koreaworld,” Absolutely. The cultural, the arts, the music, it is a wave that is sweeping through not only as it expands outside of Korea, and the impact, and Matt puts it beautifully, you do the whole Indiana, size of Indiana. I’ve heard it, like, recently. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the impact that it has, right? Yeah, for a country that’s the size of Indiana, that has 50 million people, Uh-huh? I would say, the influence that Korean food and Korean culture has in the world is outsized. I mean, it is incredible It sounded dope. To think about in East Asia, in Southeast Asia, in America, in the world, everyone knows about all the K-pop songs. They know the K-dramas. Oh yeah, of course. Are you a “Woo” fan? Do you watch “Attorney Woo”? “Attorney Woo,” yeah. That show on Netflix? I’ve never seen, I’ve never really listened to K-pop, and I’ve never really dabbled in K-dramas. Yeah, but- But maybe I will after this podcast? I’m big Neither do I. On a Korean reality show right now. Oh really? And you could probably, potentially guess. What is it? It’s on Netflix. Oh, “Physical: 100”? “Physical: 100”, baby. Oh, I’ve seen “Physical: 100.” You would. is that a- If I had to take a wild guess. “Physical: 100” doesn’t count. That’s just like, Ooh, what? It’s not a K-drama. I mean, it’s a Korean, It’s not a Korean drama. It’s not a K-drama, no. It’s a Korean show. That’s part of Hallyu, though, right? It is, it is. Absolutely. Okay, fair, fair, fair. 100%. ‘Cause they wouldn’t do that in America, and if they did that in America, the show would absolutely flop, because it would suck. Oh really? Like, it would- Yeah. That was a great show, that was a great show. It’s the amount Yeah, yeah. Of reaction shots from people that they show per thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it’s like, very, uniquely Korean. It’s a very Korean thing, yeah. But not only that, like, I’ve dove deep now into the Korean sporting culture behind this, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m involved in all the Reddit threads about the drama, but like, America, right, all of our highest-paid athletes are football players and basketball players. Yes, basketball. Sure. In Korea, they have, what’s the wrestling called? Like, ssireum? Oh yeah, ssireum, yeah, yeah. And ssireum, yeah, yeah, like, you have wrestlers, you have track and field athletes, you have pro CrossFitters, and they’re all sort of in the same realm, and they’re all competing against each other. We couldn’t have that in America, No way. Because all our best athletes are already making millions in the NFL. Oh my God, and but back to the wave, you know, the idea that all of this culture is hitting, you know, the shores of America, you know, as a tidal wave, the food is getting wrapped up in it. Yeah. So I think the K-dramas are highlighting kimbap, and highlighting, you know, jeyuk bokkeum, and dishes that we really love, and it’s all kind of translating to having this major moment in, like, LA, New York, Atlanta, Georgia, all around America, so, it’s really, really Yeah. Like, part of it, yeah. Yeah, where did you grow up? I grew up in West Michigan. Mm. Kalamazoo. Kalamazoo, Michigan Kalamazoo? Cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I grew up in Kalamazoo, so, I feel I didn’t really experience Korean food until I went to college in Madison, and my friend, Jason, kind of introduced me to Korean food, and that was, like, Right on. The start of my journey, but yeah, we didn’t have a lot of Korean food, but guess what, now, in Kalamazoo, there’s two Korean restaurants. Yeah. Right on. It’s pretty cool, yeah. Yeah. Like, I mean, Nicole, you grew up in Los Angeles. Yeah, born and raised. So, you were probably going to Korean barbecue from, like, a very young age, right? Oh, for sure, yeah. We’ve been going since we were, like, what, like 14 years old? Oh wow. We would just get our allowance, and just go to KBBQ. Actually, before the “Koreaworld” party, I had Korean barbecue the night before, and I was like, “Oh man, I’m gonna go to this party.” I had it the night after. You did? Yes. Oh yeah. And I was telling myself, I’m like, “Damn, I had Korean Korean food already,” but I didn’t even care, because I use so much Korean food and Korean influence in my cooking at home a lot of the time. Oh wow. I always have, like, gochujang at home, I have a ton of stuff at home just to make Korean or Korean-inspired food at home. Yeah. So, I do find myself cooking a lot of foods that are reminiscent of it, which is why I never get sick and tired of it, you know? You just did describe the “Koreaworld” wave, Sure, yeah. Which is like, you attend one of our parties, you read our book, and like, you’re gonna want- You’re gonna go get Korean barbecue after. That’s for sure. You’re gonna be eating at a Korean barbecue restaurant, you’ll maybe be cooking with some of these ingredients. Absolutely. I actually showed up, I had 14 friends at a spot called Prime Barbecue downtown, Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. And I showed up after they were almost done eating, but they still had all the food on the table, and it was, is it yukhoe? Yukhoe, the beef tartare. Oh, I love yukhoe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I showed up to, I was a little drunk, I had to go to another party and meet up with them, and I think I ate a full pound of beef tartare. How do you do that? Wow. I had- I mean, proteins, gains. No, actually it was, Oh. And so, but I mean, Yeah. That kinda leads me to another point. Like, Korean food, it seems incredibly healthy, right? We talk a lot about fermented foods, a lot probiotics. Ton of fermented foods, yeah, yeah. You know, kimchi itself as like, one of the emblematic, obviously, dishes in Korean culture, Sure. And now, you’re seeing that at like the Erewhon and all that. Yeah, I know, I think it’s just naturally probiotics, fermentation, it’s like, I also think, I don’t know many… I don’t think Korean food is, like, very bread heavy. Like, there’s no, Agreed, yeah. It’s not like Europe, and there’s, like, a beautiful bread, like, Italian food, French food. Yeah. So, rice, I would say, is, Mm-hmm. But mostly, it’s a lot of vegetables as we grow, like, Sure. It’s kind of the land impacts the food and the culture, and that we don’t have a lot of meat, like, land to raise cattle and pig. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So, we have a lot of vegetables, and we ferment things, and you know, quite frankly, 70 years ago, like, the country kind of hit a reset with the Korean War. Yeah. So, give a country 70 years to, like, kind of not only come back to status quo, but, you know, to be one of the world powers, it’s like, it’s pretty impressive. And I would say, you know, Korea is a peninsula. Yeah. So, there’s like, water everywhere, and so, the seafood is really important. Like, seafood is like, fundamental in the culture, you know, the seafood stocks is, like, essential in most of the tangs and jjigaes. Absolutely. To be honest, also, temple cuisine, which we cover in “Koreaworld” is, you know, not what you’re gonna see on Netflix. Like, that one chef has done a lot of work, and that’s great, but there’s so much more to say about plant-based cooking in Korea. We spent time at a temple down in Jeolla-do, and, you know, we found this really cool thing. We found these, like, work-a-day chefs cooking for the monks, and, you know, they were like, we have this cold broccoli salad with doenjang mayo, so, like, doenjang’s brown tub you find at H Mart. It might have had some eggs in there. it might have been regular mayonnaise, but- No, it’s vegan mayonnaise. It’s Vegenaise. The point is, it’s a little Who’s checking? More flexible than that, Yeah. That like, chef’s table Sure. Yeah. Temple food, and there’s a huge movement in Korea around temple food for wellness, for mindfulness, but also, like, the food is really delicious, too. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned something, and I believe it was actually an old interview that you did with Serious Eats about the way that Korean food has been in America for a long time, but like, Deuki, you said, you know, you went home, and your mom was like, “We’re only eating Korea food.” True. But it didn’t exactly get the, like, Panda Express treatment, right? Yes. That you have all of these fusion, like, Chinese American, Italian American, Yeah. Indian American dishes, but Korean food, like, didn’t really get that, or did it? Are we seeing that now? What do you think, you’ve really seen it. I’m Korean, so, it’s really tough to be like, “Hey, let’s look at Korean food,” Yes. Because that’s just food. This is just called food. Yeah. Yeah. For Matty, he’s a journalist, he respects the culture, Absolutely. He is a student of the game. I’m a super fan, I mean, that’s all I gotta say. I mean, truly, I’m a fan boy. I’m like, the number one fan, I wear the hat, you know, Damn. I wear the T-shirt, I wear the sweatshirt. You’re army, but for Korean food, Army for Korean. Yeah, yeah, and, I mean, back in the ’80s, you know, Korean food was a for-us-by-us cuisine. You know, the restaurants weren’t marketing themselves as really for Westerners, it was more for the Korean populations in the Koreatowns. LA is such a great example. You drive around Olympic, Mm-hmm. You can still see so many of these old-school places still operating. Sure. Now, gentrification has happened in places like New York, where 32nd Street is now all about, like, cosmetic stores, and we’ve lost all these great restaurants, but frankly, it’s been only in the past five years to 10 years where the chefs who run these restaurants, the generations have turned over, younger folks have moved in, and there’s been a sense of marketing, back to Hellyu, like, thinking, “Okay, well, Korean culture is big, we’re gonna make this restaurant very modern,” and like, now, you’re finding Korean restaurants all over the country. They’re like some of the most modern places you’re gonna find, they’re in spaces that look like cafes, they look like bistros, they look like… Coffee is amazing in Korea. Hmm. So, there’s been this, like, movement towards marketing better, and like, really, again, back to culture of only 50 million people doing all this work to make Korean food truly the biggest food story in America right now, writ large, writ large. Deuki, you were the executive chef at a place that I think meant a lot to both of us. Yeah. Like, growing up and being young in LA, Sure. Kang Ho Dong Baekjeong, right? Baekjeong, yeah, yeah. Tell me about the way that, like, Korean barbecue specifically has, like, influenced the way people eat in America? ‘Cause that’s obviously the first thing that we think of. I feel that was my first exposure to Korean food, yeah. Same, same, same. Oh, really, awesome, Yeah. I mean, yeah, yeah, but, like, I think, for me, like, Korean barbecue, like we said a little bit before, for me, it’s just food, right? Sure. But I do have to, especially with writing “Koreatown” 10 years ago, really having conversations with Matt, you start, like, taking a step back and analyzing your food, which you’d be like, hey, if you guys wanted to analyze, I don’t know, a hot dog and a burger, you’re like, ‘I’d never think about it on a day-to-day basis,” or a sandwich, or a hot dog. Yes. We think about it. We live it everyday. But for me to think about it, and I did, especially when we ran the Korean barbecue restaurant for, I did it for, like, about three, almost four years, and I think there’s so many elements outside of just the food, the convivial nature. Hey, you’re sharing from one plate, it’s being cooked in front of you, the interactive element of it, Right. It’s a never-ending, at least for our experience, it was a never-ending, like, it’s this cut, it’s that cut. This is with marinade, this is without marinade. I think there’s a lot of, like, in terms of senses, there’s no, like, resting of the senses, whether that’s just like, “Hey, pour me,” you know, even our drinking culture is very like, “Hey.” Sure. It is weird to pour for yourself. It’s actually, like, kind of like, everyone just stops. Like, “Why are you pouring for yourself?” Right? So, it’s always about the people and the community element of it, Sure. And I love the convivial nature of Korean food, or just, more specifically, the Korean barbecue experience, yeah, Yeah, when I was in college, I went to UC Santa Barbara for two years, and transferred to UCLA, but when I was at SB, lived with a Korean dude, and we used to pack, like, 12 people into two cars somewhat legally, and drive down to LA Somewhat. For the night. Oh, fun. And we used to go to, we would drink, like, Makgeolli Yeah. All the time outta bowls, but like you said, it’s more fun, man. You don’t do that at the Outback Steakhouse, you know what I mean? No, no, no. Like, I mean- Y’all order your steaks, and that’s it, but then, it’s kind of like, “What do we eat?” What do we want to eat? Yeah. Not what do you want to eat? It’s kind of like, what are we eating altogether? Because we genuinely are eating, like, the same soup, we’re gonna eat the same meat, and sharing. Yeah. “Hey, pass me that lettuce wrap,” so, yeah, I didn’t think about it growing up. I was like, “This is just how we eat.” Yeah. And then realizing, and studying, going to culinary school, learning from Matt, too, it’s like, that’s not always the dining experience. Josh, you had a KBF, you had a Korean Best Friend in your life. So, if we write about this in the book, everyone has- What’s this? I wanna touch you. Shout out. Shout out Daeseong Kim. Wow, yeah. What’s up, man? Yeah, shout out. So, everyone, we joke about, but it’s actually very true and important. Everyone I feel who has a, like, life, and has, like, a lot of friends has a Korean friend in their life, and that Korean friend is often very proud and very, like, cool about sharing culture, so, taking you to the restaurants, and explaining the nuances of Korean food, and I think if you look all your listeners and and viewers have a KBF out there. So, listen, you gotta, like, Mm-hmm. Hug your KBF. Yeah. This is mine. That’s weird. Jiho Kim, that was mine. I’m not your KBF. Nicole has a KBF! Hey, can we clari… Everyone’s just shouting out This is my KBF. Their KBF? I had a KBF, his name was Jiho Kim, and he was my friend in culinary school, and he taught me so much about Korean food, he used to take me out all the time. But I’m not his KBF. That’s okay. That’s what people, contrary to popular belief. Yeah, yeah. Everyone’s like, “Oh,” We don’t know each other in real life. “You guys are,” yeah. We just met over there, I’m like, “Matthew?” “Yes.” But Jason O. is my KBF. He was my friend in college. He lived with us for a while in New York when he was in medical school. He is the guy who took me around and explained all the restaurants. Sure. Was like, definitely, like, correcting my pronunciation, which I love, and that’s, like, the best thing, is like, “Okay, yeah, it’s not gochujang, it’s like, other words,” Sure. And I think it’s just a real gateway into Korean culture when you have a KBF. Absolutely. Absolutely. Did you have, like, a white guy who is like, “Hey, here’s Kraft Macaroni and Cheese”? is that- That’s Matt. Matthew Joshua Rodbard taught me a lot about non-Korean food. Yeah, Ashkenazi food, you’ve learned a little bit for that. Yeah. Oh, I’m so sorry. Oh, nice, nice. I’m so sorry. Yeah. You’ve had the gefilte fish? You like the gefilte? Yeah, I was gonna say, gefilte fish isn’t too bad. Beautiful, anything, but, like, honestly, Ashkenazi catching strays. As we’ve traveled, and we’ve been traveling for maybe more than two weeks now. Yeah, yeah. And obviously, I think when people are like, “Oh, you guys want Korean food?” Like, we don’t want Korean food. No, no. Be like, you don’t see that. And we go to LA, we’re like, “Where are you gonna take, Korean restaurant?” We’re like, Tapping out. “No, sometimes we want a good slice of pizza,” Can’t do this, yeah. You know, like, Yeah. Yeah. That’d be nice. Yeah. I made a giant tub of chopped chicken liver for Pesach the other day. Very nice. I’m out here doing my part for Ashkenazi fare. Are you doing, so, Or Jews. So, what kind of wine are you putting in that? Are you gonna put sweet wine or put dry wine in there? Sweet, I did like, a Sauternes or something. Oh, yeah, ooh, Sauternes in there is nice. You did? Interesting. ‘Cause I think chopped liver is underrated. I mean, sorry, this is just- No, this is the podcast now. Not at all. Yeah, yeah, a small, little tangent. Is chopped liver, is Ashkenazi food the greatest food? I mean, no. No, sorry. Wow. Is it top 35 in the world? Sephardic is coming in to say, “No.” 35? Sorry, guys. Sephardic is coming in hard. Sorry. I’m gonna say, like, you know, Gonna have to say no. Labneh, and za’atar, and sumac. Yeah, there we go. That’s showing off now. Just showing off here. He’s just showing off. I was gonna ask you guys, how do you feel about places like Trader Joe’s, like, capitalizing on frozen Korean food, like the frozen H Mart, Mm-hmm Korean kimbaps, and stuff like that? Yeah. How do you guys feel about those kind of- Can I be honest? Yes. I’ve never had it. Really? Have you had it? I’ve had it. We just wrote a big piece The kimbap one? Yeah. On “Taste” about Trader Joe’s stealing IP from, like, founders of color, so, Sure. Let’s just be clear, Oh, funny. I’m not a huge Trader Joe’s fan. Okay, fair. Sorry, guys, if it’s sponsoring the show, but I would say, outside of that, I just had to recognize that, you know what, I think it’s fantastic that Korean food, Mm-hmm. Like, you go to the quote, unquote, “Ethnic food aisle,” and, you know, Mm-hmm. Right now, and Deuki has a great story, like, it’s changing. The dynamic of the ethnic food aisle has changed tremendously. Yeah. I think you have a good anecdote about that, yeah. Do I? No, but- Just toss it over. He’s teeing it up. About that. He’s teeing it up for ya. You know, how the gochujang, like how basically, Yeah. Gochujang used to be just one, like, literally, Yeah. If you go to, like, a Meijer- Sure, it’s different now. No, it’s a great point. I think, as a Korean, like, how do I feel about it, forget the chef part, forget the co-author journalist part of it, is, as a Korean, it’s cool. Like, it’s like, Sure, yeah. And when you go to Trader Joe’s, I went, ’cause I wanted, I was like, it’s over the trend now. I was like, “Great, I’ll go now,” and they were sold out, right? So, for me, They’re always sold out, yeah. It’s like a point of pride more so than like, Right. Sure, BTS, and the Emmys. The Emmys, the Oscars? Yeah. For the “Parasite,” like, Yeah. Super, like, proud moment, obviously. How could we, like, is any Korean mad at that? I don’t know. Yeah. But for us, like, the people that know kimbap, right? Like, there’s gonna be some family in the middle of Kansas. I always use Kansas, I mean, you know, right? Me too, I always use Kansas, too. I’m gonna go to Kansas one day, and be like, “Oh, this is great.” Never been, yeah, yeah, exactly. We just have poutine. A lot of Koreans in Topeka. So, when I think America, I just think, like, Kansas, you know? Yeah, you’re not alone. Is which town the center of food in America? Yeah, that’s like- That’s gonna be the next episode. Center of the USA. Yeah, and if they’re talking, like, “Wow, I had Kimbap for the first time, Yeah. And through whatever means, through Trader Joe’s, through Costco, H Mart, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, Costco has Bibigo dumplings, CJ, hello, hi. I got that CJ money last week. Right, nice. But like, if any introduction, right, whether that’s bulgogi. We had a recent conversation of, like, “Hey, do we want talk beyond Korean barbecue, bulgogi, bibimbap, like, the ABCs?” I’m like, “I don’t care if you know the ABCs,” it doesn’t matter, at least we’re talking about it. And as a Korean, it’s just a point of pride, to be honest. Like, we’re so proud of it. Yeah. To put a point on the ethnic food aisle, truly, it used to be one gochujang, and now, there’s like, four or five. Yeah. Different flavors. Doenjang as well, Different formats, different sizes, and I think, you know, H Mart has done such a great job. They’re not sponsoring us, maybe they can in the future? I feel like it’s definitely a great example of how Korean food has really infiltrated the way we cook as Americans, and Nicole, your point Sure Is really sound, like, using these products, and you, and Mythical, you guys always are thinking broadly about using a international pantry. It’s like Korean pantry is incredible to cook with, writ large, Mm-hmm, totally. All around the world, yeah. If they start vac sealing Ghormeh Sabzi at Trader Joe’s, I might freak out. What, yeah. I mean, well, how do you feel about that? Do you feel like, would that be like a point of pride? Or would it be like a little bit- You know, it’d be interesting. I think there’d be a lot of online taste tests Yeah. Of like, my mom versus Trader Joe’s, and I think it would blow up. Oh my god, yeah. Trader Joe’s, do it for our content. We gotta get Shahla in here. Yeah, we would love that. Ooh. That’d be great. I don’t know. I mean, when I see it, I think once I see it, like, IRL, then my emotions will fall into place, but right now, I think I’d be pretty proud, too, to see that in the world. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned, like, Korean barbecue bulgogi being, like, the entry points, ABCs, yeah. What do you think are, like, other Korean dishes that people should know about who haven’t maybe been exposed to a lot of Korean food, who’d never had their KBF? Yeah, I mean, we just talked about kimbap, I mean, you can get it at Trader Joe’s. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, the accessibility is, Yeah, yeah. We can’t help you out much more than that, and, you know, like, dumplings, mandu is what we call it, Mandu, sure. Like with the beef bulgogi. I’m not saying it ’cause they paid me last week, It’s really actually- Sure. Like, it’s actually one of my favorites. Sure. And it’s something that, you can get kimchi at Costco, right? And I think that’s… Right. It’s a good start to it, and dabble in, and it’s not just about Korean food. Like, even Costco, even Trader Joe’s, like, the ethnic food we talked about, like, go crazy with it, right? Stay, like, my whole thing is like, you have a certain amount of meals per day. Quite frankly, today, we didn’t have a great lunch, and I said that- Aw, it happens. It happens. We gotta talk about the sub sandwich shop down the street near your studio. Yeah. Yeah, it wasn’t- We won’t name them, but we’re like, we need They’re like, the famous one that people love. A meal, yeah. The famous one down I know. The street. The reviews were misleading. That place was not- The only thing about it is the food doesn’t taste good. The food does not taste good. They don’t season anything, yeah, yeah, but it’s great. So brutal. Rough hang before hanging out with y’all. And that’s why I feel like we wasted a meal, right? Sure. And that’s how I look at it. I was like, I have a certain amount of meals left in my life. I don’t know how many, God willing, He’s gonna, hopefully it’s a lot more than, you know, whatnot, but I always, what I mean, going back to that thing, like, why not put some flavor in there? Right. Put different things. You might not like it, or you might really find something that you love. My great gateway dish is gamjatang. Now, gamjatang is a good dish, and you have Gamja Gol here on Olympic in LA, but it is pork neck, potatoes, and wild sesame seeds or perilla seeds with large perilla leafs with a pork stock. So, like, to me, that’s not really a kimchi flavor profile. There’s no gochujang in it, it really, it’s like a porky, peppery, it’s black pepper, of course, I forgot about that. And it’s like a Mexican pozole. It’s a version of, and kind of, like, transcends a lot of cultures, so, to me, Korean food is like, all about these, like, different styles of dining, and also dishes that kind of aren’t like the traditional, sweet kalbi, and like, in our books, Yes. “Koreatown” and “Koreaworld,” we write about it very frequently, yeah. Yeah. Nicole, what’s your- What’s up? What is, like, the best Korean food experience Ooh. You have ever had? I’m curious. Like, what was the moment- LA rep right here. LA representation, yeah. I know. What was the moment where you were just like, “Oh, this is the greatest thing I’ve ever had? Oh man, I’ve… Are we angling it There’s so many. As the best? I know, I’m thinking. I’m going into my brain, and I’m thinking about all of the Korean food I’ve had in my damn life. Well, I find myself going to Gardena a lot, surprisingly. No, definitely. So, my- Love that. So, my sister lives in Marina del Rey, and her husband works in Gardena, so, what we do is it’s me, my mom, my dad, my sister, my brother, my brother-in-law, my sister-in-law, my niece and my nephew. Oh my lord, how many? We all mob to Gardena, and we go, and we sit at this place called Yellow Cow, and we sit there, and it’s just the best. My dad eats, my dad has a very sensitive stomach, so, he doesn’t eat everything, but at Yellow Cow, he eats everything, all of the banchan, he eats all of the food. Again, it’s Korean barbecue. Yeah. It’s just so versatile, and it’s just easy to eat, and it’s a crowd-pleaser. Yeah. So, I love meals that are crowd-pleasers, where everyone from, like, a 9-year-old to 60-year-old Yeah. Can just sit there and enjoy the food. Yeah. So, I’d say, that’s probably my most memorable Korean food experience. How about you, Josh, what do you think? I remember going to Sun Nong Dan in LA, Okay, yeah. That’s a classic. And it was at 2:00 in the morning, and there was a 45-minute line. I was there with just one other friend, not the KBF. He’s actually Greece’s national record holder in the shot put. Sure. Oh wow. So, he and I were- Cute buddy, yeah, yeah, yeah, there you go. But like, actually, right? We were like, we’d gone out drinking after just a day of lifting, and we’re like, “What is just the biggest, most satisfying food we can get?” And we’re like, “A giant bowl of galbi jjim.” Yeah. Right, but we also got it with the oxtails in there. Oh, got extra meat, baby. Yum. Uh-huh, you gotta, and like, the oxtails are shaved thin, they’re like fidget spinners, but we’re like, you know, we’re like, smoking menthol cigarettes with, like, Korean teens in the parking lot. Oh no. People are brown-bagging, honestly, Waiting 45 minutes. People are brown-bagging liquor, you know, there’s, like, a nightclub Oh yeah. Next door. Dan Sung Sa is nearby, which is a pocha late night, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. Very classic, and I feel like you got this great vibe in LA Koreatown after 2:00 AM. 100%. I mean, you can’t repeat that anywhere, it’s such a scene. That’s true. And then we go in there, fully packed restaurant, super bright lights, and we just kept this giant stone pot just filled with spicy, Oh, yum. Braised meat, just covered in like, scallions, Mm. Gochujang, and that is, to this day, like, maybe the best thing I’ve ever eaten. Mm. Like, one of my favorite meals in my entire life. Oh, I feel like… I feel like galbijjim is, like, technically difficult. It’s like, a challenging dish to do, especially at scale at a restaurant, so, I think this is something that we should point out. Like, Korean food is not, like, simple in many ways, Yeah. Especially a restaurant, like, it’s a long-braised short rib that has been marinated with, like, the orchard fruits and soy sauce, but then you gotta like serve it hot, and like, you’ve got your potatoes cooked perfectly in there, and I feel like Sure. This is a great example of, like, the technical prowess of Korean food, Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And you’re the chef, you know, like, how much goes into it, it’s pretty amazing. I mean, I always say, like, even when we’re traveling for this book for two, two and a half years with Alex Lau, our photographer, incredible, so, it was just three of us. Honestly, I never lived in Korea, so, I immigrated Mm-hmm. Here when I was one, so, I don’t know Korea. So, I’m like the guy that I can speak Korean, so, I’m like, being the tour guide, but I don’t know where I’m going either, but it was more of just, like, going around, and what we’ve noticed, and so, I’m learning just as much Sure. As like, okay, these dishes are familiar, I’ve had it. And one thing we realize is, and what Matty mentioned, is there’s simple dishes. I would like to say, Korean food is simple, but it’s not easy, and what I mean by that is I think it is harder even as a chef, and as you guys will know, you give a chef a whole pantry, he can mask it with a lot of things. Okay, this is this, yeah. I’ll, you know, add seven different spices. You won’t, you can’t even tell. You give a chef three ingredients, it’s all technique, and it would… You’re so right. In comparison, it’s simple, right? Sushi, it’s simple, it’s three ingredients, but it’s all technique at that point. I think Korean food has a lot of that, has a lot of that finesse element to it, too, where you will know, like, bad fermented kimchi. Sure. Like, it’s just, yeah. Oh yeah, and that’s, like, a matter of, like, probably days that it’s gone bad, from like, great to bad, so, it’s like, very, very important. I think in our book, “Koreanworld,” we are all about both sides of the coin, but really, a lot of the home cooking for Korean food, it can be quite easy. It’s like stovetop cooking. Yeah. Like doenjang jjigae, for example, you’re building, like, doenjang, garlic, ginger, basically in your pot, you’re adding water, rice water, stock, and adding meat to it, like cuts of… We have a really beefy one in our book, and it’s like, cuts of short rib, and you boil it for 15 minutes, and then you serve it, and then you’re good. Yeah. So, think about, like, You’re done, yeah. Most Western soups, it’s like a long, long, long, you know? But this is like really fast. It can be the same with Yeah. Kimchi Jjigae with kimchi and bacon or pork, and stock as well. And Koreans’ not a fan of, like, waiting. We’re not really patient people. No, yeah. Like, what do we, let’s go, yeah, let’s go, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the food’s still on the grill, just bring it to the table. Yeah, let’s just eat it. Yeah, you just bring it. Come on, guys, let’s eat. Bring the grill to the table, yeah, how’s that? Oh yeah, that’s true, bring the grill to the table, yeah. I love this. A lot of people say the same thing about Japanese cuisine, where they’re like, “Yeah, sushi, it’s all,” or what is the… Annaka, they do? Kaiseki. Kaiseki cuisine, right? Like, Japanese food is all about the seasons, and then you see the dichotomy with, like, yeah, but also, their 7-Elevens have the best, like, fried food in the world. Yeah. I feel like a lot of the Korean food right now, you’re getting this dichotomy of, like, you know, meats marinated with orchard fruits, and cooking the stews Sure. With fermented ingredients, and then you got Korean corn dog, Oh yeah. And you got fried chicken covered in honey butter. Gamja. Amen. Yum. Yes. Fantastic. Do you think that that stuff is going to sort of, like, infiltrate popular American food culture, say, quicker than something like then doenjang stew? Hmm. I mean, I would say, on the surface, like, face value, probably, just ’cause there’s a familiarity, like, Yeah. I don’t even have to put the Korean part in it. I can be like, “Hey, how do you feel about a corn dog?” Great, and how do you feel about a Korean corn dog, which is, you know, it’s got a sugar coating, it’s got the cheesy pull, and whatnot. Mm-hmm. You put french fries and sugar on a corn dog, somehow making the most American dish Yeah. Uniquely Korean. Yeah, that’s what, like, it’s not a hard sell, I would say, you know? And a lot of these chicken Korean fried, like, fried chicken’s not a new concept to Americans in general. It’s called Chimaek, right? Yeah, chicken Yeah, yeah. And beer, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, Americans like beer, and Koreans like- Hell yeah. Sure do. Not a hard sell, you know? So, I would say, in that terms, like, yeah, you don’t really have to package it too much, and just be like, “Oh, this is our version of that,” and yeah, like… Yeah. I think it definitely has infiltrated now, and I think it’s a great gateway, ’cause hopefully, you chimaek, and you do some Korean barbecue, but the next day or next week when you wanna do more, and go to, like, the AP level of Korean food, you’re gonna maybe go and have, like, bossam, or have, like- AP level? Yeah, AP level, yeah. It’s cool, yeah. Go a little bit higher level, but I feel it is a great gateway, and we have to celebrate anyone who goes to Korean fried chicken restaurant, but has, like, a little bit of, like, mu kimchi, like a little bit of radish, Mm-hmm. Which is like, definitively Korean. Mm-hmm. And that’s, I mean, I love it, I can’t stop eating that when it’s in front of you, a bowl of radish, you know, it’s amazing. So, I think, like, hopefully, more, like, younger Americans who are like just starting their journey as a foodie are definitely gonna start thinking, “Okay, well, this food is cool, like, this Korean food is here to stay.” And, I mean, it’s all like a net positive, truly. Yeah, and as both of you said, it is the best in the world, and every other country Yeah, that’s right, that’s right. Has the worst food. That’s right. I’m clocking out. I didn’t say any of that. I didn’t say any of that. I have one last KBF question. This is mostly for Deuki. Yeah. My homie, Daeseong, used to come up behind me when I wasn’t expecting, he’d put his hands kinda between my legs, and rummage it around, and he’d say, Do you know anything about that? Sorry. Is that a real thing? Do you know about that? That might be a Daeseong thing. No, no, no, I’m joking. Oh, well, me neither, okay, so, you know, you can… No, it is, the Koreans know what it is. Oh really? Oh man. He gave you the nice version of it, let’s just say that, yeah. You could talk about it in therapy later. I might have to. I just got back from Japan, and let me tell you, Rosetta Stone helped me so, so much. Being in a foreign country for two weeks could have been tough, but having an understanding of the language helped me and my husband navigate all around the country, especially at restaurants. I was able to ask for things like if you know, you know, with ease and confidence. Rosetta Stone is the most trusted language learning program available on desktop or as an app, and it truly immerses you in the language you want to learn. And right now, they’re offering a lifetime membership with access to all 25 languages for 50% off. Rosetta Stone has been a trusted expert for 30 years with millions of users, which makes sense, because they offer so many languages, and you can switch between languages at any time. It also gives you feedback on your pronunciation with its built-in TruAccent feature. If you screw up, you can try again, so you can be sure to get it right. Rosetta Stone is convenient to use, and right now, they’re offering a lifetime membership for 50% off. That’s a steal. Don’t put off learning that language. There’s no better time than right now to get started. For a very limited time, “A Hotdog is a Sandwich” listeners can get Rosetta Stone’s lifetime membership for 50% off. Visit rosettastone.com/hotdog. That’s 50% off unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your life. Redeem your 50% off at rosettastone.com/hotdog today. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. It’s hard to believe 2024 is basically halfway done. I feel incredibly proud of myself for picking up a new workout to enjoy. Working out helps me slow down and focus on me. When life goes so fast, it’s important to take a moment to celebrate your wins and make adjustments for the rest of the year. Therapy can help you take stock of your progress and set achievable goals for the next six months. Utilizing therapy has helped me set boundaries and learn how to stand up for myself. It’s so, so important. It can be tough, but let me tell you, learning this skill is worth its weight in gold. It empowers you to be the best version of yourself. Boundaries are a positive way to ensure you are protecting yourself and your best interests. If you’re thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It’s entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Take a moment. Visit betterhelp.com/hotdog today to get 10% off your first month. That’s BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com/hotdog. All right, Nicole, Matt and Deuki, we’ve heard what you and I have to say. A lot of people. Now, it’s time to find out what other wacky opinions are rattling out there in the universe. Well, it’s time for a little segment we call, Opinions Are Like Casseroles. It takes other guests to come on your show to make you realize how many weird little jingles you made up. It’s a jingle, it’s a jingle. It’s so normal to us. ♪ Opinions are like casseroles ♪ I’m fascinated. I am fascinated. Also, Josh, you were a little pitchy. Oh, ouch. Sister, I’m always pitchy. Let’s get into the first opinion please. I have an opinion. Hi, my name is Nick from Michigan. Hi. I’m a longtime listener. My opinion is that while getting authentic food authentically, the way it’s supposed to be made is always incredible. There’s something super unique, and fun, and important about the melding of different foods from regions and cultures. Mm. Okay. Like doing chicken and waffles, but with Korean fried chicken, and using, like, a spiced syrup, or doing biscuits and sausage gravy, but with chorizo sausage. Mm-hmm. Excellent, excellent stuff. I like the accent. I’m sensing it’s like a little bit West Michigan? going maybe up towards- Kalamazoo guy. Yeah, Kalamazoo, maybe up towards, like, South Haven, Grand Haven. That’s what I’m thinking of his accent, you know? That was definitely a South Haveny lilt to it, yeah. South Haveny accent right there, yeah, yeah. What do you guys think about that? I completely agree, I think it’s… We get that we got that question a lot more maybe in the first book, and there was like, “What is Korean food?” And we’re like, “We can only, you know, how dare we say to Chef Tory Miller of Madison, Wisconsin that him using a local, like, the cheese in Madison, Wisconsin in Korean food is not authentic?” Because it is. Mm-hmm, yeah. He cooks there, he doesn’t cook in Seoul, Korea, you know? You’re so right, yeah. And so, I think, for me, I love it myself. I myself am a fan, I’m fascinated by a lot of things, I’m weirded out by a lot of things. I was like, “Why would you guys add that?” And you taste it, and you’re like, “Oh, I see why you guys would add that,” and my thing is, at the end of the day, is it good? Yeah. Or is it not? And if it’s good, great. I don’t want authentic bad food. I’d rather have not authentic, really good food. Yeah, and I think it also flexes creativity, and we have to, like, really respect the culinary arts. And I think when a chef decides that they want to do, like, tteokbokki, but add a little bit of cream to it, which is something that is big in Seoul, and we have in our book, Sure. It feels like that’s just invention, and that’s just like really making more delicious versions of, like, more traditional cuisine, and I feel like we can never hate on someone trying to, you know, be creative or take the next step. Yeah, the question of when something becomes authentic or inauthentic is really fascinating, and even if you were to use time as a scale, right? Yeah. One of my facts that will not leave my head is that carbonara is a newer dish than chicken parmesan. Yeah. You know, like, and so many Italians would come here and be like, “Chicken parm is not authentic. It’s melanzane parmigiana.” It’s like, carbonara, it’s like a weirdly fascist invention. That’s a vast overstatement, Yeah. But I’m saying, like, people view carbonara as authentic and chicken parm as not, but it’s simply because there was a diaspora, right? Yeah. And also, cultures have been changing time and place for literally forever. And I think a lot of the gatekeeping around what is authentic and not probably had very good intentions. Yeah, of course. And I think we are really on the tail end of that, where people are like, Yeah. “Hey, man, as long as it’s good, and you’re not being a schmuck about it.” Exactly. Yeah, I think when you need to preserve culture, you need to actually say that there is an origin here. Korea is the origin, but outside of that, you know, gatekeeping beyond that is kind of impossible task, I feel. Yeah, my name’s Nicole, and I love fusion food, and that’s it. Put wasabi in the mashed potatoes again. Yeah. My name is Matt, and we have a whole section of fusion food in our book, Exactly. “Koreaworld.” YOLO, life’s short. I love just chopping up some kimchi and put it in my quesadilla when I’m drunk. Come on, it’s beautiful. Yeah, same, who doesn’t? We’re all just exposing ourselves. Yeah. Hey, lovelies, I adore the show. Aw. Adore you guys. Called us lovelies. Aw, she’s talking to you two. Here’s a not so hot take that I have somehow gotten a lot of backlash for recently. In my instant ramen, I like to add cheese. Okay. And that’s like, a very common thing in Korea, but I have been told that it is absolutely disgusting and abominable, Hmm. But it’s absolutely delicious, and I think that more people should adopt the mindset of don’t knock it till you try it, right? Anyways, love you, have a good day. Lovelies. Ooh, a little air kiss at the end, nice. We have great listeners. We have a very intimate fan base. Yes, very. I love it. I told you- We’re all lovelies, I thought that that’s, like, your fandom name? Is that what you guys call- I’m telling you. It is now. Our hotline was very sexy. Yeah. It’s not a joke. Oh yeah, you guys gotta It opens up at like, 2:00 AM, like yeah. Call it. Probably, probably. Yeah. I mean, I would say, you guys, it’s both right. So, there’s no names, I guess? They’re not saying their names, I guess, but- This person didn’t share their name. Lovely,, I’m gonna call you lovely. Yeah. You’re right, it’s delicious, and then the person that was yucking their yum? Yeah. That’s good. Yeah, it’s a gentle one, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I got you. I like that one, I like that. They’re right as well, right? And what I mean by that, Sure. Is it might not be your thing. You just might want, like, okay, I eat pho, I don’t put anything in there. I don’t put the cilantro Yeah? They gave me, I don’t put anything. Some of my people are like, “What are you doing? That’s just broth.” I’m like, “Yeah, I just want to eat the broth.” Sure. I don’t wanna, some people with the ramen, ramyeon, Yeah. Might not wanna put cheese, but it might be really good for some people. It’s your preference. There’s no, like, I hope you’re not getting too much of a backlash where it’s, like, bothering your day. Yeah. Really beating your day, but like, I get it, like, and the beautiful thing about food is that you might not like spice, you might love sweet, you hate, he doesn’t really like spice. Like, I don’t like cheese, right? Sure. But that’s all good. You’re right, you’re right, you’re right. Yeah. Well, I’m right, too. And I love the question. It brings up Korean instant ramen, which I think, and ramyeon is the correct term for Korean style, and like, it is a moment right now Between Shin Ramyun, which is obviously the kind of gold standard. Yeah, for sure. But then you got buldak, this, like, crazy- Oh my god. Oh, that’s taken off. Buldak’s covered. All over the internet, it’s crazy. Buldak is everywhere, and that’s a Korean company, and it’s just amazing to see this, like, ultra spicy, like, kind of based around buldak, which is, like, fire chicken, but it’s like this version of it in, like, a very, very easy-to-make form. Absolutely. And I think Korean instant ramen is, like, on fire, pun intended. And do you like? So, have you guys tried buldak? Yes. Yeah, yeah. You guys like it? I tried the the black container. Yes. And I needed to eat a banana afterwards. Correct. Josh, how about you? I love it, man, I love, spicy noodles are… Oh, really? I can’t mess with it. I really can’t. Yeah, hate it. Yeah, yeah. I hate, I can’t. It makes me really uncomfortable. I was like, “Why do people eat this, right?” But you know, that’s the point, like, and I think the whole point of, like, food, like, the fact that we could have conversation about it, and I like it that we all don’t like the same things. Yeah. I think it’d be a very boring- It’d be boring. Yeah, be very boring. Yeah. Yeah. I just feel bad for the people this person’s surrounding themselves with. I wish they weren’t so- Backlash, that is like… I wish they weren’t so hard on you, because- Girl, put cheese on your ramen all day, yeah. Yeah, put cheese on your ramen, you don’t need to listen to the non-believers. You got four foodies over here telling you to do it, so, live your truth, enjoy the cheese on your ramen. Again, life’s short, YOLO. Yeah. I think that’s just the vibe for today. Oh yeah. I think that I hate when people, you’re talking about not putting, like, the herbs in your pho, et cetera, Yeah. That’s like if you go to North Vietnam, it’s typically not served That’s basically true. With all that stuff, right? No, really? I didn’t know that. Very clean, it’s unfamiliar. Yeah, and so, like, when a lot of people are criticizing people in food, others end up, like, weirdly catching strays. Yeah, And a big thing, So true. We made a video, we were cooking, it was, like, during the pandemic, too, so, we’re just trying to make videos showing people how to cook, and I was like, “You can just boil rice and then strain it.” We got a ton of people, Ooh, people were so mad at you. Ton of white people specifically, being like- Oh yeah, wasn’t that the whole thing with the internet, and like, straight, like, they were like- They were upset that people were, like, straining their rice. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were like, “No, you have to steam it, and use the finger method, and this,” and again, it was, like, a lot of white people in there, Yeah. But like, there are so many other cultures that don’t steam rice. Yes, correct. Like Persian food, Persian people, West African food. That’s how you steam your rice, yeah. India, like, you know, there’s so many different ways to do things, and for anybody to get hung up on this is the one way to do it. Quick question, cheese on ramen, what are we doing, what kind of cheese? I want to get your take. It’s gotta be American. You’re doing cheese on ramen? Kraft. Kraft American Single, Kraft Single? Right on there. Yeah, Single. I don’t care. Josh? I’m not a cheese guy either. People would think Yeah. That I would be, and I’m not. No, I mean, I personally, I like doing, like, a pepper jack. I think it’s a great melting cheese. Oh, nice. Yeah, Deuki’s face- I’m a zero cheese. I’m a keep it pure. Zero cheese. I mean, I don’t put anything in my pho, so, why would I? Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. We did do a recipe though, and this is during the pandemic, ’cause I was cooking with whatever I could find, but we did, like, a French onion ramen. Ooh, I love it. So, we just caramelized, like, four onions, It was so good. Hit it with the seasoning packet. Good times. Hell yeah. Shot of whatever liquor you have, put in the seasoning broth, You had the liquor, you gotta… What else were we supposed to do when we’re This is an intervention, right? Stuck at home? I’ve heard like, “I went and I drank at 2:00 AM.” Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ve heard that a lot. It’s all the events in life, you know? Amen. But then when you put the, like, you know, cheese on top, and like, broil it, Love it. And that’s a fun time. I get that. Yeah, that’s a fun time. Into it, into it, yeah. Yeah. Hey, Josh and Nicole. First off, I just love your guys’ interaction, the relationship you have. It’s excellent. Lovelies. Don’t touch me. But going to my question, so, I’ve got some, like, conservative eater friends, right? Mm. And like, here’s me, This is not a political show. Loving, like, Now, it is. Hot pot, and Korean barbecue, and like, some like, different ways of eating. What’s your guys’ recommendations to, like, get my friends into that that are maybe, you know, not so into, like, this different style of eating, or trying different kinds of foods? I have one. Yes? Honestly, I feel like Shabu-shabu was probably the easiest, just ’cause it’s easy, and you’re just dunking meat in water, and what’s more conservative than that? Nothing. Yeah. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy. Yeah. The flavors aren’t too, they’re not too competitive with one another, they’re not too crazy. Mm-hmm. It’s just a boiling pot of water with beef and whatever vegetables you want, and I feel like that’s pretty simple. Yeah, very approachable. It’s approachable, yeah. I don’t have a lot of friends like this. I’m your friend. No, conservative eater friends. Oh, oh, you don’t? I tend to not have any friends like that. No ketchup on steak people? No, so, it’s tough for me- No well-doners? No well-doners? I think conservative eaters, it’s like, fried rice. Like, if you’ve got, like, Oh yeah. Flavors that maybe are a little more challenging, if you add, like, rice, and add oil, and you know, like, fire it up, and get a little bit of that wok hei and stuff going on, Mm-hmm. It’s gonna taste like fried everything, and Americans love fried, so, Sure. Add a little oil to it. To me, it’s like frying it up is gonna maybe bridge that gap a bit? Korean fried chicken, I don’t know. It’s fried chicken, y’all. Like, what are we talking about? Like, how do you hate? I have not met a person that hated fried chicken or Korean fried chicken. Yeah. But also, I just don’t make friends with people that don’t eat fried chicken. That’s right. That could be a self-filtering thing, yeah. That’s right. I think you gotta, like, find the commonality in the food that they do like. Yes. I remember taking a friend who I thought was a picky eater to a Birria de Chivo restaurant, and so, you know, a lot of little goat bones in there, and I just watched this dude ask for, like, sour cream at like, a legit taqueria, right? Yeah. And I was kind of scared, and then he, like, cracks the goat neck bone, it just goes , and slurps out the marrow. He’s Nigerian, so, he grew up eating, like, goat pepper soup, Wow. Yeah, yeah. So, he knew what he was getting himself into. It wasn’t that he was picky, it was just he had the foods Yeah. That he was used to, He knew. And one of them had to be, you know, goat marrow in spicy broth, Goat, yeah. And so, birra was I love that. The exact crossover. So, find what things they do like, and it probably is fried chicken. Think about format, too. Yeah, hopefully. Format is it, like, if people don’t like meat on the bone, find a version of it without bones. Yeah. If people don’t like the smell of Korean barbecue, and some people are really adverse to smells, you know, like, go to a Korean BBQ place with, like, those fancy vents, you know? Like, think about Sure. The diner and format. You can really sell lots of cuisines, especially, like, some people are, like, scared of like, going into, like, those little, darker places that are, like, a little, you know, like, less polished dining rooms. So, just think about the vibe, I guess, the environment. That might be a great way to get your more conservative friends involved. Good point. Hey, you two, Zach Willard here, amateur food scientist. I have just Wow. So many convictions about Wow, Zack. Food for someone who will eat anything. I don’t believe any food’s I love that. Inherently bad, and that any food can be made to fit someone’s taste, but anyway, the conviction I’m here for is a discovery that I just made, and it’s that instant coffee with a sprinkle of salt and cinnamon, and a little dab of butter frigging slaps! Ooh. Ooh. He is very passionate It’s really that packaging quality that turns people off About this. From instant coffee, Wow. And the newfound sweetness and richness will make you Wow. Sewer drink. Oh? But anyway, try it out. I hope you like it. Love you, bye. Wow. This dude is 10 cups of instant coffee deep Yeah, yeah, he’s had 10. Right now, and he’s wired. I think he had it, wild. Wow, he was definitely He had a lot of it. High on his own supply. Okay, this is just Bulletproof, but sexier. I’m dumb, whatever. That guy is smart. It sounds good. My only comment on that, I’m sorry, and I’m not a Gen Z person, it’s ’cause I just got corrected on it from my Gen Z employees or my team members, Uh-huh, uh-huh? Music slaps, food smacks. Yes, yes! Into it. Oh my God, you’re so right. I hate that. I refuse. I just… Zach, try- I’m a language descriptivist, Damn it. Not a prescriptivist. Damn it. Zach, pour-over. Being 30 sucks. Think about your coffee beyond instant. Just saying, you’re a scientist. Scientists have a Chemex, go there, buddy. Oh yeah. I drink instant coffee, and I’ll tell you why. Yeah. So much of the world runs on Nescafe Instant Coffee and when I’m going to the gym, and I don’t want a belly full of liquid, but I do want caffeine, I’ll mix it into a sludge, Oh! And then I slurp it with a spoon. Ew. I’m here for the caffeine, but coffee is acidic, Nasty. And incredibly bitter, so, salt and a little bit of fat, it’s gonna counter both of those. You’re just making buffalo sauce, baby. That’s good. I love it. Food scientist to food scientist, love it. What a perfectly unhinged opinion to end that. Yeah, that was a great way to end it. Matt and Deuki, everybody check out their new cookbook, “Koreaworld,” it is fantastic. It’s beautiful, a lot of incredible recipes It really is. In there. You guys got anything else to plug? I think we’re gonna be on tour. We’re going to Dallas and Denver later in June, and we’re gonna be in Atlanta, as well, so, those three cities. Check out our Instagram, our socials, we’ll be posting it. Hope to see you out and say, hey, and, you know, like and subscribe this show, please. I’m just gonna do that call out. I know it’s gauche for the host to say that, so, I’m just gonna say it as a guest, like and subscribe. What a great show, I love your show. Aw. You’re so cute. Thank you for having us. Thank you. No, thank you guys, real. Thank you for being here. And thank you all so much for stopping by. We got new audio-only episodes every Wednesday, videos come out on Sunday. Yeah, and if you wanna be featured on Opinions Are Like Casseroles, hit us up at 833-DOG-POD1. The number again is 833-DOG-POD1. You guys should call it, You gotta listen to the voice messages. It’s sexy. Bye, lovelies! See you, guys.