I want my baby back, baby back, baby back, baby back. I want my baby back, baby back, baby back, baby back. Chili’s baby back ribs with barbecue sauce. This is a hot dog is a sandwich. Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal. So what? That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. Welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog Is A Sandwich, the show we break down the world’s best sandwiches. Biggest food debates. I’m your host, Josh Sharer. And I’m your host, Nicole Anaiti. And we have a very special guest joining us today. Please welcome Michelin starred chef restaurateur, co founder of Chain, an immersive dining experience that reimagines familiar chain restaurant favorites, Tim Hollingsworth. Welcome to the show. Hey, guys. Thanks for having me. Of course. We did not add, um, Tim, you won maybe my favorite and the most underrated cooking competition show of all time, The Final Table on Netflix. And I want to give you your props for that. Thank you. I never saw it. But congrats on winning it. So today we’re going to be talking about what’s the best chain restaurant of all time. Or we’re just going to talk about how much we love chain restaurants and how important they are. Well, I, I want to get into the psychology of chain restaurants because Tim, what was, what was behind starting? So chain, you know, originated from an idea that my partner BJ Novak had. Um, and he wanted to, to create a chain restaurant that, um, wasn’t necessarily a chain, but like paid homage and felt like a chain when you were going in and had like, um, food that was, you know, executed at an extremely high level. He secretly thinks that, you know, rather than going to all of these, you know, different chefs restaurants and whatnot, people really want to go to a chain restaurant. And, you know, I, for me, chain restaurants were, uh, like a A special occasion kind of place growing up, you know, grew up in a very rural area. And I had, you know, we lived like 45 minutes to drive to like town. Um, so it was like in the middle of, uh, kind of a national forest, to be honest with you up in, um, near Lake Tahoe. And, you know, so for us, my mom cooked the majority of my meals growing up for us going out to a restaurant was special occasion, you know, and chain restaurants were typically the ones we went to. Interesting. What was the chain that you were most excited to go to on those special occasions? Because I think that tells a lot about someone. Yeah. I mean, so, you know, for me, You know, whether it was driving to school and like hitting up Burger King in the morning and getting like the, the sausage and egg sandwich with hash brown, orange juice and a coffee, whether it was wrapping up football practice and getting a couple of Big Macs on the way home, um, you know, or going to Sizzler, you know, for like that fancier style chain, um, you know, Definitely hitting up like Wendy’s, um, back when they had like the, uh, the salad bar. I remember loving the salad bar at Wendy’s, getting those like sesame seeds, the ranch dressing, tomatoes. Um, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, for me, there’s all of these, all of these different ones. One of my first dates was going to Outback Steakhouse. Oh, same. That’s so funny. Still romantic. Or going to, going to Chili’s, you know, whenever I went down to towards like Sacramento area and Folsom, um, I was stopping at Chili’s and that was like another fun place for us to go to. So, you know, there each, I feel like each one, each one is like had its, had its moments, you know, had a special time, have, have created memories over there. I think there’s this general thought that people have, which may or may not be true that chains say 20, 30, even more years ago. We’re better that like in their heyday in their heyday, right that they were using better products that as they start expanding as private equity firms took all of them over as they start consolidating into these like gigantic mega restaurant monoliths that their quality got a lot worse. So it seems like a lot of what chain is doing is like what if chain restaurant food. But still back in the day when things were actually good, is that a fair presumption that people have? Yeah, you know, I think so. I think, you know, I think food as a whole, you know, all of our ingredients that we eat, um, we even go into the grocery store and picking out, you know, different, different ingredients. You’re getting ingredients that, you know, aren’t really seasonal. They come from all over the world. Um, and I feel like, you know, it’s, it’s a lesser quality than it used to be for sure, depending on where you shop, the shop and stuff like that. Um, but I think, you know, I think chain restaurants, the food back in the day, like for me, like creating these dishes, it’s like, it’s not even necessarily like going there and eating there. It’s like, it’s like creating it off the memory that I had growing up and eating it, like we did pizza, have pizza and, um, That was one of our partners, um, a while back. And, and for me, it was like, that’s one of my first food memories, like sitting in Houston, Texas, um, flash flood being stuck at pizza hut and like smelling, I can still smell like that buttery pan pizza crust. You know, I can still see the red cup. I can still see like the video games. And, you know, so for me to recreate that pizza, you know, wasn’t going to Pizza Hut and having that pizza. It was like based off of my memory of what it what it was and how it existed. It’s so funny. I literally remember reading New York Times food writer Tejal Rao’s review of your Pizza Hut pizza. And she said that it tasted more like Pizza Hut. Then pizza, which is really freaking cool, right? That’s the power of food. We’re not just talking about create that kind of experience. It’s not about the little molecules interacting with your palate on your tongue, right? It’s about creating the emotions that you had. And so many of us have these strong emotions. With chain restaurants. I know I certainly did when I had the, uh, I believe it’s called the Cruncho Supremo that you guys made. Yeah, we had that. It was so good because the Crunchwrap came out. It was 99 cents. I, my high school, not to brag, was next to one of Taco Bell’s top three, most important locations in California. Nicole’s going to giggle, but that’s where they tested all of their new, those are, they tested all their new items. And I’m from Orange County. So it’s like 20 miles South of their corporate headquarters. Right. And so the Crunchwrap Supreme came out, and God, I mean, this would have been like 2003 maybe? BFD. Yeah, before it ever hit venues. Big fudge and deal. And we used to, oh man, we’d mob there after, after football practice and we’re like, What, it’s a hexagon but a tortilla and there’s a tostada in it? But it was something that I have such strong memories with because I had like a 45 year old man screaming at me as I was a 14 year old, you know, um, um, committing violence against other 14 year olds. I’m talking about football. I’m not, I’m not talking about getting in knife fights behind the taco bell, though we did see that sometimes. But you have these strong memories associated with it and I think that’s what one of the most interesting things. About chain restaurants. Totally. Nicole, what memories do you have and how does that lead into your favorite chain restaurant? Damn. So, um, I agree with you, Tim. Whenever we were growing up, uh, going to a chain restaurant was kind of a fancy ordeal. My mom was, you know, she was a stay at home mom. So we were eating a lot of home cooked meals and she’s like a good cook, you know, so I wasn’t complaining necessarily. But every now and then I’d be like, I want to go eat out mom. And she’d be like, all right, whatever. So. I grew up around a CPK and an Islands on Beverly Drive, and um, the Islands was on the corner, and our school would do a lot of fundraisers with that Islands, and I remember it very vividly, I would go, I would drag my parents down to to these like fundraiser things because they were not about that they’re like immigrants they don’t care so they would take us and my dad would get the sandpiper sandwich which was a chicken sandwich my mom would get a turkey burger and then I would get whatever I would like get a quesadilla it was like the best thing ever I was so excited. So excited to even walk in there because first of all they would set the scene so nicely about islands I loved everything about it. It was like rainforest cafe light, you know They had these beautiful these like hawaiian shirts and like it was so cute And they would just give you so much like attention and I love I just loved how much attention like even the bathrooms were like Called Hawaiian names for boy and girl. Like wahine and like, I don’t even know what it is now. But something about like, that attention to detail. Even as like a, as like a fourth grader, I loved so much. Cause it really felt like it was curated for like a kid to just love hanging out at islands. But now at 31 years old, I hate islands. Every time I walk by one, I’m like, boy. No, when’s the last time you opened your heart and walked into an island? Three years ago with my knees? My sister, my brother, and my parents and I said this is terrible like what a fake vibe, but But I don’t know something about being a kid in islands and just like loving going out with my parents was like obvious. Same for CPK. I think CPK was like two steps above islands. CPK was a little bit classier, you know, it was California fresh, you know, they had cool pizzas like Thai chicken and Mexican, like, tostada pizza, and I was like, oh my god, culinary inventions. It was truly incredible, their, their pizza game. To this day, it’s still pretty iconic. I love it very, very much. I think we need to give CBK so much credit, and I’m fascinated by the fact that things aren’t chain restaurants until they are, right? A lot of these just started small and CPK was founded by Ed LaDue who was Wolfgang Puck’s pizza chef at freaking Spago, right? One of the places that crowned what California like Nouvelle cuisine was and he was doing what the is the Peking duck pizza and I believe the smoked salmon pizza were the two. And this guy was like, we can take that same ethos and like California barbecue chicken, uh, Thai peanut sauce. And like, that was incredible at the time and still to this day informed. So much of what other people are doing. Cpk is a good one to really put on that, that top tier of the obelisk. Cpk is delicious. Again, I haven’t been in such a long time. So I think that magic might be a little bit gone for me, which sucks a little bit. But I think I just got to go back to Cpk. I think I got to go back and get one of their, their barbecue chicken pizzas and just live my life. Barbecue chicken pizza for sure. I got to do it. And then, um, I also. Well, I’m not going to tell you my favorite yet, but, and then also, um, I grew up going to the Panda Inn for special occasions, which leads to Panda Express. Panda Inn was great. I loved Panda Inn. It was like, how many were there? Like, maybe like four? Was there like four? I didn’t know there were that many. I thought there were, was it the Pasadena one? No, I would go to the one next to the Beverly Center. It was like right across, I’m sorry, right across from Westside Pavilion actually. I’m being very LA right now. Um, and then that turned into a love of Panda Express. I mean, to this day, I will. Go to Panda Express and I will get the orange chicken. I’ll get the veggies. I’ll get the chow mein. I think it’s so It’s just standardized in a way that no other chain or fast food restaurant has has done and it’s delicious and it’s It’s it’s delicious and no matter what Panda Express you go to doesn’t matter if it’s in an airport It doesn’t matter if it’s in Vancouver. It doesn’t matter where you are The food is the same a hundred percent of the way and I love that about them and then also when I was younger, I used to go to Kmart with my mom a lot and if you went to Kmart, you would know that they always had a Little Caesars in the Kmart. And this was before Little Caesars was like, you know, hot and ready and all that stuff. They would like have like pizzas out like on trays and stuff. And you could like take a slice and you could just eat it. And it was like me and my mom’s like special little treat. So I’ll always love Little Caesars. But the number one greatest chain restaurant of all time is cheesecake mother effing factory. I, let me tell you, the freaking menu is thicker than the Bible. Okay. And you can get, oh, I love it so much. I used to poo poo it a lot. I used to hate it a lot, but at this age, I love the idea of the cheesecake factory. It’s like, It’s like this crazy design in there. It looks like the Taj Mahal and like Versailles like threw up in there. There’s so many options of food. The drinks are phenomenal. The cheesecakes are stunning. I mean, whatever they got going on at Cheesecake Factory, they do it to the nth degree and I think it’s perfect. You can go there as a kid. You can go there as an adult. You can go there on a date. You can go there for any reason whatsoever and have the greatest time. There are more than 250 items on the Cheesecake Factory menu. It’s like a Bible. It’s beautiful. That’s insane. Yeah, so that’s how, that’s how I feel. Uh, I think a good hallmark of a chain restaurant, Tim, correct me if I’m wrong here, is that it, uh, it touches every single facet of society, right? Every, every class, every tax bracket can enjoy that. That’s what I’m saying. Everything’s getting more, more expensive and Cheesecake Factory certainly isn’t there too, but the fact that like Justin Bieber is dining next to like a blue collar family from Ohio who’s vacationing in LA. Absolutely. That’s kind of incredible. And I think it shows universal appeal, Tim, what chain restaurants have your heart? You know, I have to, I have to go with Tana express. I think, you know, the consistency, um, and I, you know, the fact that there’s still family owned as well, I think is like super cool. Um, you know, it started, started in, uh, Um, I believe it started in California. Um, I went to the headquarters the other day, you know, I’ve, I’ve been to Panda Inn in Glendale, I think it was the first Panda Inn, um, and you know, for me, it’s, it’s, it’s one of those restaurants and they, I mean, they, they invented orange chicken, like orange chicken. Like they created that and that’s like probably it’s such an iconic dish and the fact that you know, they, they, they created that is just like such a cool thing. Um, and I feel like chain food in general, it’s just, it’s just a, it’s a, it’s a, it’s an equalizer, right? You have people, just like you were saying, it’s like people from all over. Um, doesn’t matter what class you are. It doesn’t matter where you grew up. You’ve been to chain restaurants. You have, you have, you’re influenced by these restaurants. And, um, I think that’s what’s really cool about, you know, chain and what we do is because we pay an homage to that. Absolutely. What about you, Josh? You got a favorite? Well, I think we’re all big panda heads here, and you can’t not be the interesting thing about the consistency at Panda is that they’re still like really walk firing a lot of their stuff. They cook their stuff hella fresh. They’re like actually for what? What other chain fast food restaurant at that scale is like? actually like oil blanching ginger and garlic fresh like as they’re making the dishes that’s nuts like so many fast food restaurants right it’s about you’re taking a pre formed frozen burger patty throwing it into a little steamer disc thing but the fact that panda still has consistency while having such a variable process is insane and there’s McDonald’s, right? They’re forcing other people’s hands. McDonald’s is trying to cook raw beef again in their restaurants, right? So they’re cooking quarter pounders from raw, which is something they haven’t done in a long time. I went to, I’m going to leave the name of the chain out of it, but they were, uh, I got invited to some event. Um, and they were like, we’re making our guac fresh in the store now. And I was like, that’s pretty crazy to do at this scale. And they did a demo and they have like chopped tomato, chopped onion, chopped jalapeno. And then they take these giant, just squidge go gurts of acidulated avocado puree and go into a giant bowl and they mix it. And they’re like, see? And I’m like, that’s, I’m happy for you, but like, God, is that what we consider fresh these days? You know, just like acid treated avocado in a vacuum sealed pouch? Uh, so the fact that Panda Express is still able to cook fresh like that, that’s really cool and should be celebrated. Yeah. Also, going to the Panda Inn for their buffet is really exciting. Such good times. Because it’s just like, you’re just let behind. the actual steam table line at Panda basically. So fun. To make your own plate. Which is fun, so I love Panda. Um, for me though, I think one of the most exciting restaurants to go to for me, because that’s what I’m trying to judge this off of, is what was I most excited to walk into. Okay. It’s the Olive Garden. Really? When you’re here, your family. When you’re here, your family. Because, like, I, similarly, we just grew up without a ton of money, and so going out to any restaurant was an experience. Special shout out to Sizzler’s 99 Cent Kids Buffet, because that’s how we ate there on every birthday. But going into the Olive Garden, You were transported to the hills of Tuscany through the eyes of a nine year old, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Transported to the hills of Tuscany. You see the bottles of Chianti with the little, uh, Candle? You know, the candles in it and then the little wicker basket around it. That was incredible. And then dishes that I’d never had before, right? Mezzaluna. Mezzaluna. Why do we both remember the mezzaluna? Well, the mezzaluna is my favorite kitchen tool, but that’s for another podcast. But that, and then, and then I think so much of, I think it’s a very American relationship to food to, um, think of the, the deal, right? To be like, oh, we have a, America is the only country that had 99 cent value menus, like, as a consistent policy. Like, as an incentive to get people in? Yeah, and we’re one of the, we’re the world’s leader in all you can eat buffets. Olive Garden had unlimited soup, salad, and breadsticks with the purchase of a 12. 99 entree. We ate like kings, and you only, only one person at the table had to order salad. All the other ones could get soup. So me and my family used to draw straws to see who had to order the salad. How many times did you get the salad? A fair amount, but still, but no, I could still eat. You didn’t want the salad, did you? I could still eat the bowls of soup from other people, because if one person got salad, everybody And the point is Oh, you’re sharing. You’re sharing, yeah. Okay, good, good, good, okay. Yeah, but then I had to beg my brother for the soup spoon. You’re sharing soup, it’s weird. But the soup with the spoon, it was good. But the point is, like, you go back to Olive Garden and eat now, and Olive Garden doesn’t salt their pasta water, as a matter of policy, because they think it’ll degrade the pans quicker, right? And so, like, Objectively, does the food taste great now through the lens of somebody who’s Eating at, you know, some of the best restaurants in the world. Absolutely not. But do you still go there and you feel bounty and you feel taken care of and you feel like you’re back in the womb as a child and you’re safe? And you’re celebrating your grandma’s birthday? Hell yeah, you do. And she tries to order hot tea at the end of her meal and they go, this is an olive garden. It’s weird. And then she doesn’t care. Um, so Olive Garden holds a special place in my heart. Were either of you, uh, purveyors of the NeverEnding Pasta Bowl? No. Have you? Is that Olive Garden? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can eat as much pasta, you literally order a NeverEnding Pasta Bowl and they bring you as much as, you can’t tap out, huh? What do you mean you can’t tap out? You think they’re gonna You could infinitely eat, like, 20 bowls of pasta. If you wanted to, however, you really tap out. You shouldn’t. I, I did do the never ending pasta bowl. You did? I used to, and this is disrespectful, but I was a teenager. Me and my buddies, we used to, like, go to the beach in, like, like, San Clemente, T Street. And we used to go skimboard all night. We would pack, like, 15 peanut butter sandwiches, eat that all day. We’d skimboard until the sun went down, and then in our like wet, sandy board shorts, we used to roll up to the Olive Garden for the never You suck! Oh, and of course, oh, we tipped four percent, of course. We were poor, man. Took a lot of gas to get to the beach, eating peanut butter sandwiches. I have since, um, you know, given my recompense to You really have, you really have. so much. Uh, but, uh, we used to get the never ending pasta bowl, and then we’d just eat. You really get sick of it after one and a half bowls. Nobody needs that. But how many did you clear? How many bowls did you clear? Uh, six was the most. And they limit the, you know, you’re not getting the mezzaluna with the Madeira reduction, whatever. No, no, no. You’re getting like, you either get like meat, tomato, alfredo. White. Yeah, or like maybe pesto as an option, but limit one per person. Right, right, right. You know, so it was not great, but it was such a marketing tool for Olive Garden. Yeah, I know. That’s what I always think about whenever I think of Olive Garden, like never ending pasta bowls, baby. What about that? Didn’t, uh, what was it, Red Lobster have like endless shrimp as well? That’s why I love chain restaurants. They just do these like silly little gimmicks just to get you in. And I love it so much. Well, Endless Shrimp is bankrupting Red Lobster currently. Straight up. No, an actual story came out, I think on Bloomberg a couple days ago. Tim, are you, were you a fan of the all you can eat? Yeah, but my all you can eat was more like the salad bars, you know, going to salad bars growing up But like sizzler salad bar going to wendy’s salad bar. I never had like the all you can eat shrimp I never had we didn’t go to red lobster very often. Um an olive garden I won’t I literally have only been one time and funny enough. My wife took me there And so this is like, after I had left the French laundry for working there for like 12 years. Like she, she takes me on a date in LA and uh, this is why I married her, right? She takes me, she had a gift certificate, like a gift card to Olive Garden. She’s like, you want to go to Olive Garden? I was like, yeah, sure. Why not? I’ve never been. And so she takes me there. So I’ve only been one time. Do you remember what you ordered? I remember, I don’t remember what I ordered. I’m sure some sort of probably chicken Alfredo. I That’s hard to pass up, right? Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s the way to go. But you can also get the, uh, the tour of Italy, which was the most exciting. Josh loves the tour of Italy. It was a tour of Italy, which is chicken parm, some sort of fettuccine alfredo, lasagna, and then ravioli, I believe. Wow. I don’t know what regions you’re literally I’m about to be like, where’s the P Pop region? It’s literally the tour of New Jersey. It’s literally the tour of Tour of the Sopranos Season 1. Like you get a little bit into East Philly, but then you’re back into like Asbury Park. Going down a trip. But then they started a tour of Northern Italy. Oh nice! They’re doing so much. I mean, people are interested in that kind of stuff, so why not? Oh, they certainly are. I’m not, I’m not opposed to it. Tim, talk to me about the Sizzler Salad Bar because that is something that the Sizzler has, I believe, declared bankruptcy. They’re still around, they’re still hanging on, but I believe they have filed Chapter 11, so not long for this world. But describe to me how beautiful the Sizzler Salad Bar was in its heyday. I mean, it was like, number one, I mean, it had, it was surrounded by kale, right? Like, it was like, ornamental kale. Weren’t they the largest purveyors of kale? Pizza Hut. Pizza Hut salad bar was number one. Sorry, how could I mix up my salad bars? And it had, I mean, just, for me, it was like one of those things where I still, to this day, love a good salad. So, you know, going there and getting lettuce and just like picking whatever you want on there. I mean, it was like tomatoes, the croutons, the sunflower seeds, the ranch dressing, um, You know, it was sometimes put a little olives in there, you know, it’s, it’s one of those things that, um, that, you know, again, we didn’t, we didn’t have a lot of money, so we weren’t ordering like big things, but, you know, I would go to the salad bar many times. And that’s like basically how I filled up at Sizzler, right? Uh, never allowed to order a steak there. Yeah. Correct. They got ground beef in a vat near the taco station. That was your steak. That was yeah. Well, they had a whole taco station. They had the tortilla warmers. They had a vat of yellow liquid cheese and they had, they had carnitas or some sort of shredded wet pork. Didn’t you used to make like little, um, dishes with your brother to your grand? Can you, can you tell Tommy a little, uh, a little anecdote? It just means so much. My grandma went to her grave, God rest her soul, 101 years old, uh, loving the sizzler and she lived next to one and my brother and I, and he is. You know, he was a sommelier at some point, so we’re both little bougie food boys at this point. And so we go to Sizzler with her, you know, we might have eaten a gummy or two, and we decided to have a little cooking competition to see who could create the most unhinged dish at the salad bar. And so, I mean, we were like, You know, using a butter knife to scrape like lemon zest off the, the iced tea lemons. Um, we made a little like imitation crab, kind of like ceviche, leche de tigre situation. Uh, Leche de tigre at Sizzler. Talk about a class act. Gotta go to Sizzler with you. I know, right? Let’s go, man. Let’s party. You put the meatballs in the taco shells. That’s very fun. Uh, but it was like a create your own destiny thing. Tim, do you think there’s any way to quantify? What the best chain restaurant of all time is like, who did it the best? Who is your North star that you’re following? And why is it TGI Fridays? I think, you know, I think you got to go with the golden arches. No, I mean, I mean, McDonald’s is so iconic that, you know, for me, it’s, it’s, it’s everywhere. It’s, it was, you know, were they the first people to have like the, you know, The playpens and stuff like that. Oh yeah. You know, I just remember going as a kid and being able to, you know, to, or the five for a dollar hamburgers or something like that. Oh my God, they did. I should go. Remember that? Ten for a dude. It was on Saturdays and Sundays. It was ten for a dollar at some point. And Filet O Fish Fridays. I would like literally crush five by myself. We used to buy them and freeze them. We used to buy them and put them in our freezer. And when my dad was working late, we’d microwave them. Wow. How do they reheat? Uh, so, I’m so glad you asked him. As a chef, you’ll know that, uh, the wettest items are going to heat the quickest. So that means the one single pickle on the hamburger would be completely molten. So what you gotta do is you gotta take the frozen pickle out. Onions are fine, they dissolve. But you take the frozen pickle out, nuke it, and then you throw the frozen pickle in the latent heat from the hamburger. We’ll, uh, get your pickle back up to room temp. And then you put some Sweet Baby Ray’s barbecue sauce on it. And barbecue sauce. I mean, McDonald’s, yeah, it’s, uh, it’s tough to argue that they’re not. Number one. Truly, they’ve done incredible work. They invented the business model, too. Yeah. And that’s the business model that has powered a majority of chains. I think we’re, we’re seeing that change up, though, now. Where like, Chipotle, I think, Chipotle’s going through some weird years. Chipotle’s going through some weird years. But over the course of the last 20 years, they’ve had like the most. Impressive rise as far as the model goes, as far as adopting tech goes, right? Something like 60 percent of their orders are coming through through an app right now. Uh, Chipotle did a really good job of like showing people all the food in front of them. They took what Subway, Subway did. Subway was super instrumental in that and being like, Hey, look at our vaguely rusty iceberg lettuce. It’s right in front of you now. Uh, and Chipotle was like, we can do that, but with better looking food. And so I think they would be in the contention, but I think they’re sort of ready to pass. You think so? Have you tried their brisket? No, I tried their brisket the other day. Pretty fire. How’s it? It was really good. I mean, I don’t know when I when I think of Chipotle, I think they they did something so unique. They made fast food kind of sexy in a weird way and I’ve never ever quantified fast food as being sexy, but the idea that I could choose my salsas and like I could get so much guac. I could get as much guac as I like. There’s something about the way that they would schwap it in front of you. It was intentional. Like, I don’t know, Subway was never, I don’t know, Subway, I feel like You’ve been a bad burrito. Shut up. But like, I don’t know, Subway, I feel like people would just throw it on there without care, but I’m, like, the training facilities of Chipotle, I feel like, before all the videotaping and the GoPro ing, but in the beginning, I feel like they put a lot of love and care whenever they would actually assemble it, in the beginning. And it made you want to go there more and more. But now it’s kind of, just kind of, uh, disintegrated and they are just kind of like, not failing, but they don’t necessarily care as much as they used to. You don’t get the same vibe that you do. No. Tim, what do you think is next in the evolution of chain restaurants? Cause we see like, the Arrival of ghost kitchens for instance, right that are making people even question what a restaurant is It’s no longer a place that you walk into, you know outback is putting their wings on ghost kitchen menus under completely separate labels Um, but what do you think is next in the evolution? Does it excite you? Does it frighten you? You know, I feel like, I feel like they’re all going to, they’re all kind of going to go back in time a little bit and try to, and try to try to like visit their origins and how they used to do things. I feel like, I feel like, you know, they’re, they’ve sort of industrialized so much sometimes that I feel like, you know, they’re, they’re looking back at like how, looking at the processes and of course streamlining things, but also Thinking about how they can create more quality and what and what they do. Um, or at least that maybe that’s just a hope but I you know, I think that you know I think I I think that that’s probably the next iteration of of change. I mean they have I feel like they have to acknowledge the fact that like there’s so much love and nostalgia for these these places that like like We don’t necessarily want them to evolve and create new dishes. You know, we want to, you know, yes, that’s part of the process, but we, we still want the things that, you know, that we grew up on. We still want, we want the items that maybe have left the menu and they come back, you know, those types of, of marketing moves for them, I think are key. Nostalgia, baby. That’s what it’s all about. Down with all kings except King Ludd. I’m a fast food Luddite, man. Go back in time. Start frying the fries in lard again. Taco Bell, you know, you don’t gotta make, you don’t gotta make chicken into tortillas anymore. You know? That can just live inside of them. Stop innovating. That’s beast. Reject modernity, embrace tradition. We’re doing it. Nicole, I’m going to Italy this summer. Oh wow, sounds fab. Can I come? Absolutely not. But you know that sense of anxiety you get when you try and order food in a different country and you don’t know the right words? Oh my god, of course. Happened to me on my last international trip. Well, no more embarrassment to be had, Nicole, because I’ve been practicing my Italian with Rosetta Stone. Rosetta Stone has been a trusted expert for 30 years with millions of users and 25 different languages offered. With Rosetta Stone, you get fast language acquisition, speech recognition, convenience, and more. And all at an amazing value. That’s right. You can get a lifetime membership with access to 25 languages like Spanish, Polish, Korean, and more for 50 percent off. You can learn anytime, anywhere. Learn on the go with the mobile app or at home at your desktop. Plus, you can work on your accent with Rosetta Stone’s built in True Accent feature which gives you live feedback on your pronunciation. You really learn to speak, listen, and think in that language since there aren’t any English translations. You’ll be picking up a new language with words, then phrases, then sentences for better long term retention. So don’t put off learning that language. There’s no better time than right now to get started. A Hot Dog is a Sandwich listeners can get Rosetta Stone’s lifetime membership for 50 percent off. Visit rosettastone. com slash hotdog. That’s 50 percent off unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your life. Redeem your 50 percent off at rosettastone. com slash hotdog today! Alright, Nicole and Tim, we’ve heard what you and I have to say. Now it’s time to find out what other wacky idiots are rattling out there in the universe. It’s time for a little segment we call OPINIONS ARE LIKE CASSEROLES! Sorry, I stayed in the same pitch. Alright, Tim, so this segment we have our Fans have actually written us controversial opinions about their own chain restaurants that they love and hate. We’re gonna read them out, and you are gonna get first chance to respond to all of them. You ready? Yes. All right, Nicole, you go. Sure. So, at Dala Sizena says, Sonic’s mozzarella sticks with their honey mustard is a god tier combination and a way better, and way better than dipping them in marinara. How do you feel about mozzarella sticks and honey mustard? No, that’s a fail. I don’t agree with that. So passionate. I haven’t had it, but I’m eating it in my mind right now. And I feel like I gotta go with traditional marinara. And by the way, I love mozzarella sticks and I love marinara. And the two are together like, you know, put it in a fine dining restaurant. That’s what I say. Hell yeah. What about ranch? Ranch everything. Okay. I love ranch. Great. I’m glad. Ranch on pizza? 100%. Yes, very good. I would eat this and I would be happy about it. Is that weird? Like, I don’t know. I love Honey Musty. I put Honey Musty on a lot of stuff. Honey Musty on chicken nuggets is like my jam. McDonald’s Honey Mustard is one of my favorite fast food condiments out there. I have never had the Sonic ones either, but um, I feel like I would enjoy this. But maybe as like a first bite. But not like as a continuous bite, you know what I mean? I’d probably go for the marinara and the ranch. TBQH. Nicole, you know me as a bit of a world traveler. You? Yeah, yeah. Where’d you go recently? Well, I was recently in Sardinia. Oh my god. And there’s, shut up, dude. There’s a, uh, there’s a dish in Sardinia. It’s a dessert. It’s called seadas, where they take a young pecorino, but a very stretchy one, not like a pecorino romano. It’s not aged. So it’s like a salty cheese, not dissimilar from matzo in a lot of ways. They wrap it in pastry, they fry it, and they drizzle honey on it. These are the same flavors going on there. This is a dessert, you know, the fried cheese with the honey mustard. That’s a dessert and that’s fine that you’re eating it. But the mustard is the turnoff. It’s almost like Knafeh. I was about to say it sounds like Knafeh, but it’s the mustard is the turnoff. I went to Providence once and they made a honey mustard dessert. And if they can make a honey mustard dessert and the Sardinians can put honey on fried cheese, then the Sonic mozzarella sticks and honey mustard is a dessert. And that’s my own fault. You can die on this hill. Alright, uh, we got, we got at Sherrod Ethan, if you’re going to make fried food, you should not be changing the oil. Let the flavors of the past live on. Tim? I think we all gotta say no on that one. Uh, I mean, look, dirty fry oil is something that you can taste. Like, it, it like, comes through in the food, and it’s a huge, huge turnoff for me. Uh, I’m gonna say no on that, but I will pivot and go a dirty grill, like a dirty griddle that has been seasoned cooking tons and tons of burgers. That, that you can, you can, you can cook a better burger on, I think. Wow, I agree with you 100%. Like Bill’s Burgers in North Hollywood. Oh my gosh, I love Bill’s Burgers! Yeah, I had it like, what, I had it like, Three months ago, after like a long hiatus, it was so good. Oh, gee, man. Bill lives on. He’s like 95 years old now. Yeah, he’s old. He’s an old, yeah, old man, old griddle, great burgers. So good. Wow. I agree with you a thousand percent. That’s like the best take ever. Well done. Proud of you. The dirty Frylo thing. I can taste it. It’s one of those things. I can smell it. I can taste it. Well, in culinary school, we used to have to like, empty out the grease trap. Yeah. That’s a fun. So I can taste it, I can smell it, I can feel it. I, I am part of it. Yeah. I think, to me, that’s, people who don’t like filet o fishes have only had them in dirty fry oil. I love filet o fishes! Cause, cause the dirty, the dirty fry oil somehow accentuates the fish flavor and makes it worse, right? Oh my gosh, yeah. And so I think that’s the key to a good filet o fish, which I love a filet o fish. Canola oil, when you heat it up too much, it ends up smelling fishy. Yeah, canola past the smoke point? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s weirdly fishy. Into the 90s says, When you live out in the middle of nowhere like I do, the chains taste so much better. Sorry. Dim can relate. Yeah, you know what, there’s, there’s, sometimes, sometimes you go to these chain restaurants and I feel like, like for me it’s like on a road trip. And, you know, you’re traveling, you know, maybe you’re, my family lives up in Northern California so I travel. Um, up there drive up there all the time. And so, you know, sometimes stopping into these small towns that you know Don’t really have other other restaurants and are far from everything. You might have like the best taco boat you’ve ever had Um, and it’s like the the proportions are right like the heat the heat on it’s correct Um, you know, whereas, you know, maybe Late night in L. A., you’re not going to get that same, uh, taco supreme or nacho bell grande. So true. I remember I was, um, in Bentonville, Arkansas for a business meeting and me and the people I, I was like working with, they’re like, okay, let’s go to a restaurant. I’m like, oh my gosh, we’re going to go somewhere cool in like Arkansas. Like I’ve never had food at like, from like the South before. And then we walked into Olive Garden. I’m like, all right, This is what it is. But I was kind of, I mean, I’d love to try like regional unique foods from like different like towns and whatever. But I understand this mentality because of the consistency and the QC that goes into chain restaurants. So I kind of agree a little bit. Fresno, California. I waited 45 minutes for a table at Texas Roadhouse. That was the greatest meal of my life. Greatest meal of my life. Texas Roadhouse is good. When you’re smelling the yeast rolls for 45 minutes in the lobby. Texas Roadhouse is really good. It’s very good. Big fan. Uh, we got, we got a good one here. Uh, we got at Grufferstein, Chili’s was only worth it when they had the original chicken crispers. Tim, are you aware of the change that Chili’s made to the chicken crispers in 2021? What was the change? So they used to be a wet batter and it’s not, it’s not like a tempura. It was like a, almost like a Gorton’s frozen fish wet batter that the steam from the chicken would kind of leave it a little pancake y sometimes. And. In between the layer. In between the layer and the chicken and then they would be utterly oil logged every single time and they’ve since changed them to being a more like dry wet dry double dredge that’s probably coming from a freezer. But the OG soggy greasy wet battered chicken crispers. Um, I, I don’t, I’m not a chicken crisper person. I’m a type of person that goes to a restaurant specifically for like, whatever my order is. Like I, I, like I get the same thing. I, if I go to Chili’s right now, I’m going to get chicken tortilla soup. I’m going to get fajitas. I’m gonna get a big margarita. And like, that’s, that’s exactly, that’s exactly what I’ll get. I won’t, I won’t veer out and get. Like the, get something that I haven’t had before necessarily, um, might take a bite of like, you know, whoever I’m with, but, um, yeah, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t know. I haven’t had either one of them. I, I’m, I’m the, I’m the opposite where I go to any chain restaurant and I get whatever has the like, Capital N E W exclamation point. Yes, you do. On an angle next to the, uh, next to the name. New! Uh, Chili’s had a, god, it was like double stack quesadilla Santa Fe burger. It was a burger, but the buns were quesadillas and it had all the stuff on it. And you know exactly what that’s going to taste like and you know it’s going to be a little bit worse than either a quesadilla or a burger. You know what I mean? You’re like, I don’t want it, but I had to get it and I had a perfectly fine time slopping it down with a couple Coors Lights. I don’t know. I’ve never been. Is this Chili’s? Have you never been? I’ve only been to Chili’s once before in my life and I need to go again. I don’t know. I went one time. I think I got their like chicken Santa Fe salad or something like that. They loved Santa. Santa Fe was a massive buzzword from like, I’m gonna say 97 to 06. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was that like pepita cilantro dressing that everyone like had a hard on for. Bobby Flay was on every single Food Network show. The premier Mexican chef in America, El Bobby Flay. I just never, I never dabbled in chilies, but um, we did recreate these. We work on a show called Last Meals on the Mythical Kitchen channel. And we did remake the OG chicken crispers and they were good. They were pretty damn good. Not my, not my cup of tea necessarily. I’d rather just eat like a Popeye’s chicken tender. But like meh. It didn’t really do it for me. I don’t like wet batter with skinless, boneless chicken. Like a wet battered southern fried chicken, I think, like um, Gus’s does a wet batter but it’s a thin, lazy one, but like, a pancake y batter on a chicken tender, it doesn’t do Doesn’t do it. Doesn’t do it for me. Tucker underscore Steven says, a vanilla frosty is better than a chocolate frosty. Yes. 100%. Haha. Haha. And then you gotta get french fries and you gotta dip it in . Yeah. Yeah. Vanilla frosties were new. That was a new thing. They didn’t, they didn’t have those when we were growing up. Oh really? Vanilla frosties. This is like the mandala effect. I’m gonna estimate you talk. I’m gonna estimate 2002 is when they came out. I love vanilla frosties. I think the vanilla lends to the frosty consistency. And of course I agree with you regarding french fries and dipping ’em in Did what’s up? Not until oh six Oh huh? Not until oh six to the vanilla frosty come in. Impossible. I don’t like chocolate frosties. I like vanilla frosties. I also had a strawberry frosty whenever that was a new new new ticket item. Um, and I really like the strawberry frosty, but I will say it’s vanilla strawberry chocolate. The, the origin of the frosty is so funny to me because Dave Thomas, who was very intentional about everything. Wendy’s didn’t come out until I believe 69 when a lot of these other big chains, Burger King was like early, early fifties in Florida. In N Out, 48, McDonald’s, like, 46. Wendy’s is kind of a late player to the game. That really took off from, uh, from Columbus, Ohio, I believe. But Dave Thomas invented the Frosty. It is literally half chocolate, half vanilla. That’s the whole shtick of the chocolate Frosty. That’s why it’s not particularly chocolatey. Okay. And, uh, he stole, not stole the idea, but got inspired. Tastes like Swiss Miss. It’s nice. But he got inspired by, like, a racetrack that had an ice cream bar that would serve something similar. But he didn’t want a strong chocolate flavor to, quote, distract from the burgers. And so that was the whole origin of the Frosty. I think I understand a little bit. I get I’ve never I’ve never drank a chocolate. I guess I’m not a big chocolate shake guy. Well, whenever you eat a burger, do you eat the burger and then drink the milkshake at the same time? Like. You would at Johnny Rockets, would you? That’s another chain we didn’t bring. Oh, that’s a good chain though. When you eat a burger, do you also drink your milkshake? Together? No, but I finish the burger and I finish my fries with the milkshake. Yeah, the milkshake is the dessert. It’s not the accompanying drink. The Diet Coke is the accompanying drink. The 68 ounces of Diet Coke. God, I like went to In N Out the other day and it had the milkshake. You know, just a half hour wait inside for food. It was some high school football game must have let out and it was just mad crowded. And I just sucked down just three. You do 90 percent diet Coke, one pump of root beer, one pump of Dr. Pepper. Cause then you get the aromas of all of the, of all of the star Sparilla 23 flavors. Very intentional. Just sucked down. So intentional. Three of them. Oh my God. Oh, you’ll change it up to a little Arnie Palmy. They got new, uh, yeah. They have new white labeled lemonade for them, I believe. All right. We got time for one more. Let me find something. Here we go. Here we go. Living in New Jersey where there’s a plethora of good pizza, there’s still value on having a Papa John’s Pizza Hut or Domino’s. They serve two different purposes. I don’t even think of them as the same food. Uh, I agree with that. I think that, uh, it’s a, it’s. It’s not a normal pizza, right? There’s lots of different types of pizza, and I think that chain pizzas, like a Domino’s pizza, um, like a Pizza Hut pizza, like a round table pizza, all of those are like, they’re kind of like Little Caesars, they’re all like their own, their own thing that you can get a craving for, it’s not, it’s not like, you know, here in New York, I had a slice of pizza last night, you know, and it’s, it’s, That’s a New York pizza, you know, it’s a New York slice. That’s its own thing. To me, it has nothing to do with like Domino’s or Pizza Hut, and that’s like, you could have them both in the same day, and that’s not considered eating pizza. Yeah, it’s uh, taco, it’s the same relationship with Taco Bell and Mexican food. I disagree with you very, very much. It’s, well, it’s the same, it’s the same genetic makeup. It’s crust, It’s tomato sauce. It’s cheese. It is the same. It’s tortilla. It’s beef. It’s salsa. Yes You think Taco Bell has anything in common with a Sonoratown? Do not giggle at me. A soft taco from Taco Bell serves the same purpose as a street taco. The fact that you even said soft taco though is insane. What do you mean? I’m clarifying because I knew you would bring up street tacos. Hold don’t fight in front of our guests. The fact that you would even assume that it would just be a hard crunchy taco Is your problem not mine. It’s not my problem. It’s the top selling item at taco bell number two Uh, so what I think what tim’s I think there’s a lot of validity. There is a unique It’s like Subway’s bread smells like a dentist’s office. Yeah. There are these sensory memories that correspond to chain restaurants. Nobody could ever recreate perfectly, like, the way that that hydrogenated, butter flavored fat that soaks into the Pizza Hut pan pizza crust. No one can perfectly recreate that. Does it matter? It’s the same fat. Food. It’s just done. It’s the same food, but it’s different purposes, but it’s the same food. Period. Point blank. Sorry. But it’s like been run through a That’s fine. A fa a clone fax machine all around the world. Yes, you’re right. It’s an appropriation of, an appropriation of, but at the same day, Andy Warhol piece, it is an Andy Warhol piece, but that’s fine. It’s still edible and still serves its purpose and you still enjoy it. Yo, round table, Maui Zowie Pizza. I ate that after, uh, after winning the JV basketball summer league championship. That’s right. Go Mustangs, baby. Suck it El Toro. Oh God. I think that’s a wrap on after suck it El Toro, Tim. Thank you so much for joining us today, man. Where can people find you? They Instagram at chef Tim Hollingsworth. Hell yeah. Thank you so much for coming on. It was a pleasure. Yeah, everybody check out Chain. They’re doing really incredible work, man. I’ll never forget the time you did, uh, not the orange chicken, but you did actually a rainbow chicken skewer with an orange green. Did you not have that? We were at the same event. Roy G. Chicken. Roy G. Chicken. That’s right. Where was I? Was it Chain Fest last year? Was it? Oh, I didn’t go last year. Shabbat. It was Shabbat. Sorry. Tim, you gotta make kosher friendly, Tim. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha And on that note, thank you for listening to A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. We’ve got new audio only episodes every Wednesday and a video version here on YouTube every Sunday. Yeah, check out Chainfest. It’s coming back to LA October 5th, Tim? October 5th. Woo hoo! We’ll be there, man. Everybody come check it out. It’ll be fun. We’ll be signing autographs for 15 bucks. Nicole, how much are you charging? I don’t know. Free, baby, free 99. Free 99