[Music] welcome to ear biscuits the podcast where two lifelong best friends talk about life for a long time i’m link and i’m rhett this week at the round table of dim lighting we are continuing our conversation about the enneagram i do think that if you didn’t listen to the last episode you should listen to it before this one but if you’re not the kind of person that wants to do that if you’re an eight an enneagram eight and you’re like screw you i’m going to do what i want to do then you can listen to this one it’s fine because i do think it will stand alone we’re going to be talking more about how the numbers relate to each other specifically how a three that’s me a one that’s linked relate to each other some of the strengths and the weaknesses in that pairing and we’ll also talk a little bit about some other relationships in our lives probably just our marriages and uh and then maybe what we can do to grow based on what we’ve learned that sounds like a good plan i will measure the success of this podcast based on that criteria at the end i’m sure you will before we uh get any further we do want to remind you that episode four of ron statt is out now and in this episode ronstat and faye his love interest uh finally get some alone time all right yeah so if you’re into you know a long time people getting alone time and listening to it uh episode four is for you of course listen to episodes one two and three before you get to is that where the mouth sounds came in uh actually i think the mouth sounds coming a little bit later but boy well there are some mouth sounds oh my goodness i’m glad i wasn’t there for the recording of those mouth sounds i heard about it yeah i think i think we have some b-roll footage maybe at some point we’re releasing not but we’re not gonna cut to it now nope no no um i wanted to kick this thing off just by talking about how i how i’ve been thinking about the previous episode um it just struck me you know i had to and i mentioned in the episode that i had to go to the dentist right after we recorded last week’s episode and and i so i the appointment was pretty close to the end of the episode as a matter of fact i knew i had to be there so i was kind of like shutting down the making the decisions like hey i got to get out of here let’s we got to start wrapping this thing up so in in as graceful a way as possible i tried to get us to that point so that i could get to my dentist appointment and then when the show was over i immediately left got my car and like rushed over there and i just started to observe because i was totally in the headspace of observing my oneness that the entire way to the to the dentist i was just just beating myself up about and ending the podcast and analyzing it well that was that’s where it started like i was like i really don’t like how i had to truncate our conversation and you know if if rhett did that to me i would feel like you know that i was being rushed and that instead of processing and having like a nice gentle landing to the podcast which is always important to me we had to rush it and i just felt like man this is my fault and i’m like driving down the road i’m like you know i’m going to text rhett right now i just want to apologize wow for having to you know having to speed through the ending and i think the reason why i wanted to do that is a very one reason and that’s okay i didn’t meet the standard of how i wanted how i envisioned the episode wrapping up what it would not necessarily what would be said but what it would feel like that that was actually the criteria that that i felt like was missing i didn’t like that i didn’t like i you know i assumed that you were thinking the exact same thing but i was projecting that and i was like i want to apologize because i want to pre-acknow i want to acknowledge that i know that so instead of receiving the criticism later because that’ll really hurt that really hurts the one when it’s hey this wasn’t this wasn’t good enough this didn’t meet the standard it’s like okay yes i knew that i was going to say that first you know so that that was the first thing and then i start getting into the whole you know and i’m sitting there and by the time i get to the dentist i’m experiencing this this anger this frustration and i sit down and she hands me an ipad and she’s like i know you’ve been you broke it i know you think what almost you broke it over your knee she was like i know you’ve been coming here for years but um we are on a new system and i need you to re-enter all your information in again oh that makes you mad and i was like seriously and so it’s like create a username create a password oh this is the worst thing and i’m like okay i’m supposed to create a password on your device how am i supposed to store that password i have a system for storing my passwords so that they i don’t have to remember what they are and they’re all unique yeah this is bad news for a one and then i open up my app to to to create the password and then i’m going to manually transfer it to their dumb ipad that’s the worst so and then what maybe maybe there’s maybe they’ll have my password i don’t know yeah and you’ve accidentally used it for something else the next thing you know your dental hygienist is getting money from your bank account yes siphoning my bank account i have trust issues i don’t trust hygienists you know they say if you if you spend that much time in somebody else’s mouth something’s got to happen to your brain to your morale if there’s anybody you should trust as someone who’s shoving both hands in your mouth i think they’ve gained so much trust from people that they exploit it my app my password app wouldn’t work i tried it three four times i’m sitting there and now i’m just steaming and i say you know i stood up and i and i said you know what can we just do this next time i’m just i’m having a day that makes it where i be i’m basically incapable of creating of filling out this information this reminds me of the time my mom took my kids to the place the trampoline place where you jump yeah and you know how you have to like fill out a computer screen that just like registers the child there and says that there’s a waiver right it’s your fault yeah she got to that screen because my kids tell the story they’re like mom and dad got to the screen and she started realizing she was gonna have to like put our names in the screen and she was like y’all do this she’s like i’m not about to do this yeah i had gotten to such a i i’d gone into super anal critical mode in analysis mode of the last episode that i mean the app didn’t work that wasn’t my fault and but it kind of saved me because i’m gonna i’m gonna switch dentists anyway after that i don’t want to put my information in here this is a good point to break off from you guys well you’ve been talking we go to the same dentist and you’ve been talking about it well the hygienist switching again the hygienist doesn’t follow the strict protocols that i’ve come to uh expect because when you there’s no flossing the last time i went she didn’t floss well that’s your job but she told when you told me that you were thinking about switching i was like this would never cross my mind that i would switch dentists unless like the dentist was you know like asking me to commit crimes or something but and then i told Jessie i was like link’s thinking about he thinks we should we this dennis is bad now and i’m like and she’s like how like both of us couldn’t understand i can’t answer that question okay i want to hear the pitch for why i should switch well because i’ve experienced meticulous dentistry where they’re like they’re measuring your gums and they’re like flossing your teeth and like uh again giving you lectures on your gum health and the last two times i went none of that happened or maybe you’ve improved maybe maybe you’ve gotten better there was no assessment hmm well i got an assessment last time and it was bad it changed my it changed my ways man and i floss every day because people in there are different they’ve changed and and they’re literally different they’re literally different people and i think it’s changed hands and they don’t have the same procedures okay all right and i wanna i wanna feel the pain because i wanna know that i’ve done everything i could to for for my for my health i want i want their i want them to hold themselves to the highest standard because only then can i relax what am i hold on i’m walking out and they didn’t do this that me teeth gonna fall out it is a very one thing right yeah and plus they weren’t really they also weren’t that nice oh okay interesting well i wasn’t thinking any of that about the episode uh i was not thinking uh i would you know i was thinking a lot of other things too but here’s the interesting thing there was one thing there was one thing that i was thinking i’m gonna save it uh i’m gonna save it until we get into the conversation about ones and threes because i was like it’s interesting when i read about this because i felt this at the at one point during the episode and it’s the only i mean it’s not really a criticism it’s just it’s so something you said that made me feel a certain way that i think is indicative of the one and the three yeah but i was not thinking at all about you cutting the conversation off because i knew that you had to go and i know and we had a part two and i also was not um thinking about like oh that didn’t go well or that could have been better but what i was thinking apart from what i’m gonna get to later is i can tell that link is having a difficult time with the this podcast there’s tension yeah because any time there it’s not just a conversation and it’s like there’s information that needs to be presented and even like so we typically don’t have many conversations about the conversation that we’re going to have right but when we’re going to present information it’s one thing i’m just like okay this is your episode where you’re going to talk about your deconstruction story yeah and then it’s just like it’s all in your head and it’s all on your plate and you just do it and then vice versa and we kind of know that the other guy is there to be supportive and to be a listener but there are fewer and far more and further between there are these episodes where it’s like i’ve got something and you’ve got something and we have to coordinate the presentation yeah and every conversation we have about that is tense there’s a tension in that conversation and I’m like Link is really he’s very tense about us coordinating this podcast presentation yes and it’s like and i and i want you to just relax i want you to i want you to just relax so you can enjoy it getting on the same page is what i think gets me to that point and if it’s and if that doesn’t happen well this is the other thing that i said i wasn’t going to go into but like we should go into this yeah you’re exactly maybe we should maybe we should move ahead and talk about the threes and the ones because i think it actually will illuminate the con for people who are like what are you guys talking about you seem crazy seem like a couple of dental hygienists I’m really throwing dental hygienists under the bus i love them they’re great i don’t think they’re criminals they don’t get enough credit because the dentist just comes in and like looks at your teeth and like gives a thumbs up dinners are suckers they’re the ones who suck he brings out a couple of tools yeah right but it’s the hygienist that does the real i mean all that measuring all the stuff that I’m critical of is of the hygienist because like they’re the key in my mind right right right um and yeah i did vent some of this to Christy and you like you talked to Jessie i talked to Christy and then Jenna came by and since she was sitting in the room like Christy was like i got it you know link’s not happy about the episode and uh i was actually encouraged Jenna what you said was very helpful because what she said was i thought it was just a classic exhibition of each of your numbers in full force in that episode and that’s and that made me feel better because i felt like it redeemed everything that i was critical of because it was like i was critical of things where it’s like oh i was too controlling or this didn’t or you didn’t meet my expectation or my standard and or didn’t go the way that i felt you know all of that i I’m I’m assuming as they listened there was like a smile on people’s faces that was like because Jenna said this they we don’t even know how much we are like going into our numbers you know yeah we’re very we’re some people are not as pronounced and they’re not so selfish it’s so ironic that we were talking about it yet having this level of like i was more aware of it but still it’s it’s it’s a lot of work to be aware and to um to respond to and i think that’s the other thing through the lens of our number interactions that we can talk about like our paths to growth and integrating this this information yeah but let’s take a a quick break to talk about the uh the hat right there okay the mythical trucker hat this is my favorite we actually requested that this be made because let’s just be honest uh we were making hats in the mythical store that were uh and we still are they’re like dad hats right and they’re the cool hats that the kids wear right but we are actually dads and so dads don’t wear dad hats dance irony dads wear old-school high crown trucker hats that are made of foam and when it gets hot it’s got built-in ac right i mean this is a classic cat uh and it if you throw it overboard your dad boat it floats it floats well i think it floats for a while until it until it maybe 20 minutes kind of like a sponge mythical.com um i thought we could just start reading through the this relationship description any the enneagram institute has a really uh again i’ve already plugged the website but i love the website because of the way it’s organized and it’s simple and you don’t have to read a book to kind of understand the basics of the enneagram but one of the things that they have is this section under the learn tab where it says relationships and then you can click on your type and then you can click on the type another type and see how those two types interact and so this is the enneagram one the reformer that’s link with the enneagram three the achiever that’s me and if you click on and it doesn’t matter whether you go from one to three or three to one it goes to the same page okay good uh because i could tell that you were you were like are we going are we doing that i was just curious if one’s first is it is that something different it just it it i mean it has them in numerical order on each page read through and i’ll a minute or or i’ll be like maybe not yeah we’ll just see where we relate and when we get to the thing that i was talking about earlier i’ll tell you what it was maybe maybe you’ll anticipate it enneagram ones and threes are both competent serious-minded and idealistic yes this serious-minded thing which i think we’ve shared a little bit before okay yes we’re comedians and we may cut the fool constantly uh as we interact with each other in front of you but as jenna could probably tell you this um if you just hang out with us as we’re doing our work it’s not fun we’re not our creative process is not fun we’re not like these fun happy-go-lucky guys constantly making jokes constantly laughing like it is like two people working on a serious problem even if it’s a really dumb thing that we’re working on i’ll go beyond that i’ll say even when we are just hanging out with our friends if if a mythical beast were to hang out as a fly on the wall with with us and our friend group i think they would be surprised at how serious we are how serious we are you know it’s like we i mean we have a good time but it’s not like i i think they may think that we would be on but we’re not and i think the thing is is that if we were as unserious as we tend to be when we’re in our performance mode all the time we can’t live with ourselves you wouldn’t be watching there would be no podcast there would be no ethical entertainment that none of this stuff that we’ve been doing for over a decade would actually have happened which okay let’s get into that because this back to the website this is a highly task oriented relationship with both partners driven to hard work and to be intensely aware when individually and collectively they are not measuring up to their own expectations and high standards yeah so it goes without saying it’s pretty self-explanatory and very true of both of us but i would say we push ourselves and we i think we’re pretty good at supporting each other like even in a recent conversation we had i was talking to you about like how sensitive i am to pulling my weight at this as i described a few weeks ago we’re at this phase creative phase where a lot of things are speculative and we’re just you know we’re just writing things we’re just kind of pursuing concepts we’re not executing and producing as much or taking one project through the whole thing and i was kind of i was experiencing uh just feeling like i i want to make sure that you know that i am sensitive to me pulling my own weight and your response was well i’m not thinking about that because you’re thinking about you holding yourself accountable to to to what it is you want to achieve but so we’re both good at that we’re both hard on ourselves yeah and we’re actually not that hard on each other i know that i project that sometimes uh but it’s not actually the case because we drive ourselves so much yeah and and we also have been in this relationship for a very long time and in this business relationship for a very long time so that there’s this level of trust where it’s not i’m no longer like we’re not feeling it out anymore to be like hey what’s he doing with his time you know it’s like there’s nothing both parties can bring selflessness self-discipline good work habits and the ability to put aside their personal feelings for the sake of the objective good that needs to be done both types are used to working so hard that they often succeed garnering admiration from those around them and attaining places of leadership and responsibility the one in three combination can be so dazzingly dazzlingly accomplished dyingly accomplished dazzlingly accomplished dazzlingly high energy extraordinarily competent and impressive both individually and collectively uh so we really we really stumbled into something good man i mean it’s not like when we were in first grade we were looking through the class to see who we could team up with to cr to create like a uh a digital studio and aspire to a media empire in the future i mean i wasn’t like who can who can team up with me to make us dazzlingly what uh accomplished it’s not like i didn’t say it three times but i you know you know people ask the question a lot of times now and first of all we’re going to get to the bad parts of our relationship and in the pitfalls of the three and the one it would just it kind of starts with a positive so we’ll stay there for a second yeah let’s dazzle a little man um a lot of time you know a lot of people are in this business that we’re in right um but uh uh a minority of people who are in the creator business sort of take it to the level that we’ve taken it to and i’m not i’m not patting ourselves on the back i’m just saying that like there’s plenty of creators who are just like guys i don’t want a company with a hundred people that’s not what i want i just want to create yeah and i think that maybe even sometimes against our own interests because we can we should right we’re just like this could get bigger this could be more successful yeah we could make this company bigger we could have a bigger idea we could take this further and there’s very little evaluation of whether or not we should it was it’s just a given that that’s what’s going to happen and it’s been that way since the beginning and that’s why it’s continued to grow because it’s almost a maniacal and sometimes pathological and self-harming um instinct to just keep pushing because neither one neither person in the relationship they’re now we’ll talk about how the threes and the ones balance each other but neither one in the relationship is really holding you back from continuing to move forward in general there could be some frustrations which we’ll talk about but it isn’t like the one is like i don’t want to move forward the one is like i want to move forward but in a particular way and the three is just like i want to move forward because when we move forward we’ll um they both strive after excellence both as an ideal and as something to personally embody sometimes they succeed so well that this pairing virtually glows with self-confidence and the thrill of their own talents they strive to make each other proud of them someone the other can look up to and show off to his or her friends and family they enjoy planning and organizing them you know sometimes i invite you over and i’m like look at my friend they’re right they enjoy planning and organizing their lives dividing up responsibilities after seeing who is objectively better at which tasks both thrive on respect and give each other personal space so this idea and this is this is really interesting it talks a little bit more specifically about this in a second but the idea in comparison to you uh in so much of my life is in relationship to you and in contrast to you i’ve kind of given off this air of like i’m not i don’t really my life is not organized i’m not a planner link’s the planner but again in the spectrum of organization and efficiency and planning and pragmatism i’m actually i would say in the top 10 percentile of organized efficiency and i know this because i live in a family of all the my all the members of my family are on the opposite end of the spectrum and not my wife is perfect example not a planner not organized she’s a procrastinator and yeah and she will gladly admit that we both know our way around a spreadsheet it’s just the fact that well i might be in the top 10 percentile you’re in the top one percentile you know what i’m saying so in contrast there seems like a big difference but we’re both actually in this almost engineering mindset when we the way that we approach in the way that we schedule things and this whole idea about dividing things up this is something that especially over the past like five six years right we’ve begun to get very just because there’s so many things going on we had to do it out of necessity we have these meetings where we’re like evaluating all that’s on our plate and it’s just like you take this i’ll take this you take this i’ll take this there are struggles associated with like dividing things up but but it’s overwritten by there’s like a there’s a it’s freeing there’s kind of comfort in knowing oh yeah yeah it’s like you can you can take this i’ll take and i’ll take this kind of a thing right um as long as there’s as there’s enough and there’s things that we can both get excited about that are different that’s especially when it works right which is what you were getting at earlier yeah sometimes it doesn’t it’s not that clean yeah there are only two other equally goal oriented pairings a one with a one and a three with a three now i think i experience a one with a one because i think that stevie’s a one i think that stevie’s a three really yup wait i mean she i don’t think she’s looked into this because she’s not and you know okay so i’ve always known that she’s into i’ve always thought that stevie was a one and then when i dove back into reading about a three i was like you know what i think that stevie’s a three well only she can say for sure yeah and and and you shouldn’t you shouldn’t pigeonhole somebody else you can’t put you can’t put a number on somebody and that’s why it’s up to her to but it’s interesting because but go ahead because she definitely has one tendencies and ones and threes can be mistaken for each other a lot of times yeah i think when it comes to like our creative interactions to me she feels more like the way that i interact systematically like if we’re thinking about ideas i tend to think of structure first and like i i create boxes to then check it’s like all right in order for this to be a good idea it has to meet these criteria and and and sometimes we get so bogged down in that that we don’t come up with any ideas whereas and and maybe that’s less of a three one thing and and just more of a creative mindset going on but like well things like that she’s very systematic the reason i think that she’s a three uh is because no no offense to the ones ones have a tendency to give superfluous feedback and stevie never gives superfluous feedback and also threes tend to have this almost uh again to the detriment of their own health commitment to doing doing doing doing doing and that’s stevie and and also threes have a tendency to do things themselves before they give you the opportunity to do them yourself i do that and stevie does stevie’s gotten better at that because she’s so good at so many things the ones also do that yeah so it’s i but i do think i mean when you when you add her into the mix you see how it still works because it’s it’s it’s within this framework that you and i and whether she’s a one or a three it still it works the three of us together create this um it’s like a pr it’s like approaching a tornado i believe that i could imagine what it would be like for somebody on the outside if we were in the middle of a creative process to be like i don’t i don’t know how to step into this tornado i feel like if i step into it i might get hit by a piano do you know what i’m saying because there’s an intensity i would love to do the process i would love to know because i’m then i start to think i wonder what jacob is like stevie works so closely with jacob and then i start to think i think jake was the one i start to think you know it’s like maybe maybe we need to drop everything and everybody needs to go every all right we did strengthsfinder at one point a long time ago okay so goal oriented pairings the one and the one and three and three although since these both are same type pairings they typically have blind spots that these combinations will need to be aware of because the one three is a mixed pair this produces a powerful coalition that is capable of dealing both with ideals and with practical matters they will try to solve problems in the relationship by discussing the issues involved since neither likes emotionally charged bickering or unresolved issues so we can talk about that because this is something that i mean again these are a lot of these are principles that would it be true to any personality combination but we have had sort of a hypersensitivity to having the conversation about the conversation to having the meta conversation about our relationship and it usually we’re both so busy and so focused that sometimes more time than needs to pass passes before we have another one of those conversations that’s a conversation about our relationship yeah this is something that happens on a very regular basis and in the friendships and the business relationships that we have sort of been exposed to uh that’s the advice we always give is that you got to have a conversation about the conversation you got to talk about your relationship and i my uh instinct or my my observation is that a lot of people have not made the decision to have the conversation about their relationship and it has not worked out yeah i mean the the thing that strikes me about everything that we’ve read is that it i mean it it resonates so much with us in a professional setting and like having these dreams that we want to accomplish and goals that we’re going after like so for like it’s a good combination for people starting up starting a business or or working closely in partnership now i mean the enneagram institute makes a point that like if you’re talking about any type of relationship it you can make any combination work it’s not like well you shouldn’t you shouldn’t be in business with with if you’re a certain number you should only be business with other numbers no that’s not the case it’s just there’s certain strengths and certain pitfalls with all the combinations and also with um you know relational i think it’s just huge in marriage which we’ll get to in a second but exactly it doesn’t mean you can’t be in a marriage or a relationship or a business partnership with another number it’s just it brings a level of awareness to and i guarantee you that nine times out of ten if you were like my i’m a so-and-so and my wife is so-and-so i’m so-and-so my business partners are so-and-so and then you read about these and you’re like oh damn we always go back to these same trouble spots and i think for well we haven’t even started reading the trouble spots but i do think that we have a tendency to get so focused on on the goals and that we’re headed towards that we couldn’t neglect our friendship the health of it and that’s specifically listed in here and i feel like we’re doing good if we have the conversation about the conversa how we converse and how we relate once a quarter but then if it if it goes to only twice a year or once a year then those conversations get to they they tend to take a lot of time and then you get and we do get through it because it’s it’s it’s the same conversation you know it’s just you know oh it’s just it’s nine months later than the the last time we had it right one step three is to be more grounded and realistic three’s help one stretch themselves and not be so perfect perfectionistic they are both industrious and persistent efficient and concerned with excellence and with making a real difference in the world i mean again this is like i feel like somebody is reading the exact this is they’re reading our mail well let’s talk about the trouble spots though yeah tim we’ve congratulated ourselves enough even for a three i’m so dazzled i need to take some of the sheen off if this relationship gets into trouble it is often over time commitments lack of emotional attachment to each other and a creeping sense of competition now as you remember very well we did a whole um we did a whole episode where i was accusing you of being as competitive as me uh and i again i regret some of the things that i said and the stance that i took in that but i do think that and again i think that we’re learning more about what what’s going on inside your mind when you do things that externally present themselves as competitive yeah um but that whole pulling each other’s weight and um pulling pulling your pulling pulling your hip pulling your own weight and like the don’t pull my weight the balance that we have in the things that we do yeah um definitely speaks to this we both are like i don’t okay we’re doing a meeting where we’re talking to everybody in the company well i want 50 of the words don’t you you know what i’m saying and it’s like there’s always been this just like okay i’ll take this point then you take this point i’ll take this point we just divide everything up in that way yeah and as we talked about in that competition discussion which by the way was never we never knew we were going to have it it just happened uh it was but that was an interesting that was an interesting moment but yeah i was just trying to explain like okay if you take our the meaning it’s like we yeah we set up this system where it’s we’re going to divide up how we’re going to present everything to all of our employees and then that becomes a and to me the reason is uh it’s a it’s valued to present a united front and for them to hear from both of us and kind of you know know where we’re coming from yeah and then there’s certain things that one of us can uh feel more passionately about or can communicate more concisely or more effectively so there’s a there’s a divide and conquer type thing and then all of it in my mind goes into the definition of what means the meeting went well when it’s over and i’m analyzing it the second we turn off the the camera on the video try to walk out of the room when we get back into the board room right i hesitate to then say and i think you think this way because i also think we tend to characterize the other person’s motives it’s really hard to do that because our motives are so different that it’s very easy to mischaracterize in a way that seems like well for me that i’m being critical of you yeah and you might uh try to characterize my motives in a way that seems again you would have to say is it competitive is there more of a comparison there it’s like i i think that i well we’ll get into that in a second when we talk about how threes respond to ones and ones respond to threes okay but my and i think where my mind is out at after a meeting like that is not and i think this is pretty you know enlightening given what you just said is you said you can’t you’re immediately analyzing how the meeting went and what i am analyzing is what our people think about us as leaders the meeting is a sort of a conduit for them to perceive us in the right way as leaders right yeah that’s what the three goes to the three goes to is how did we and how did i individually no i’m not it’s not just like how did i i’m not i’m mature enough at this point for it not to be how did i come across versus link it’s more how did we come across as leaders did we did we put a picture out there and again there’s the whole there’s this deception thing which the three deals with which is we kind of just pass right over whether or not we are good leaders and get right into do people think we’re good leaders because that’s what’s really important right and again this is not a conscious process this is like this intuitive emotional sort of under the surface thing that if i really step back and think about where my mind was after a meeting i’m like oh i was actually hoping that our employees would walk away from this meeting and think these guys are engaged these guys these guys care about us and that you know they’re giving they’re putting you know uh establishing a great vision for our company and thumbs up to those guys good good good leaders good bosses and and all of that resonates with me but i go back to the the way that i know that we’ve gotten there is by measuring the process the the process right and i think it’s more about the specifics i think it’s more about the performance right and again the funny thing is is that when you sit and look at the external execution it’s a pretty pretty similar external yeah result you know what i’m saying what we do it we do have your ultimate goal is not to look good is to do the things that yeah and my ultimate goal is not to have a perfect meeting our ultimate goal is to uh lead wisely yeah but my belief my underlying belief my orientation in the world is that a big part of effective leadership is them just thinking that we’re good leaders you know what i’m saying like uh and i’m not saying that it’s true i think you need to you i’m not actively trying to deceive and trying to lie it’s just again i’m being vulnerable about the way the threes work okay so there’s two sections here and instead of this will take forever if we go through what i want to do is i want to read the way ones tend to think about threes which would get to this paragraph and then just let you respond and say this resonates that doesn’t resonate and then we’ll do the same okay ones tend to find threes too workaholic pragmatic and too concerned with their image and their reputation rather than with principle ones can see threes is tending to cut corners and ethical matters willing to exaggerate or fudge the truth in order to achieve whatever they’re after they can also become critical of threes if they change their goals pragmatically dropping efforts or switching positions when something does not work for them ones may also have issues with threes attempting to reinterpret ethical questions and with not owning up to their personal behavior including their behavior regarding fidelity in the relationship itself all of the middle part about like are you are you deceitful are you doing things underhanded are you are you lying to people or do you do i question your integrity it’s like no no um you know we’re both we’re both good boys as your mom would say and my nana would say y’all are such good boys you work so hard i’m so proud of y’all that’s what what nana says but i mean the very beginning the very first thing and the very last thing resonates so the very first thing of like okay is he doing this for effect because you know to uh image management i think that that that comes up for me yeah and and this is why when we go back to that that conversation about competition you tend to uh analyze someone else’s behavior according to the way that you’re thinking about it so in other words like what we talked about before like if you come to work with a weird pair of pants on and it’s like those pants are short and baggy yeah and you know objectively they don’t look good is what i’m thinking right okay but they are quirky and cool and fashion forward and so what i interpret is link is trying to seam fashion forward so again because if i were to put those pants on i would be doing it the same fashion forward right i would be doing it to maintain an image of like hey i’m trying i’m mixing things up and look at what look what rhett’s doing now about his appearance in some way oh rhett grew his hair out he must be doing that because he wants to be a guy with long hair right and i have something i definitely fight against in myself but then i interpret any choice that you make in the same way i i think this this gets to the to the thing that i thought was the moment in last week’s podcast and maybe it wasn’t it so i’ll just throw this out there uh the thing that rubbed me the wrong way was i yeah i felt like the kind you know the typically an ear biscuit conversation is more of a conversation but because it’s more because of the way that we set up last week and we’re bouncing back and forth and we each have things that we want to convey um you you directed more of the things that you were saying to the audience than to me and uh you know there’s two things one i’ve i i recognize that kind of rubbed me the wrong way because i was like is like he seems really caught up in in really getting something across and is that i don’t know is that related to what you were saying about then how you would be perceived you know i the thing that i’ve i’ve said for years like people like what’s your pet peeve about rhett and i say well he he’s a know-it-all you know it prick it pricked that uh pet peeve again because and i was i was thinking well maybe there’s an image management part of it like he’s got this thing that he he wants to come across in a certain way and i could be totally wrong it’s just i was in my own head about it but i and i think the bigger thing and maybe it’s because i think that may have been smaller and maybe i’m even reaching okay because i’m i get a little nervous kind of putting that on you because none of that may be true but i know the part about me is that there’s this uh you know i took it personally that you didn’t want to talk to me you didn’t want to talk to me about this like there was some uh what was the last thing you read because the word was an abandonment but there’s definitely an abandonment well the thing yeah that comes a little bit later and and that’s that that’s in play for once and definitely for me you know if you look at um my childhood and it’s like okay my dad wasn’t there i got a i got a great relationship with my dad now i i don’t like throwing him under the bus but you know it it it happened and i think there was a seed of it you know i really respond to that of like if if you’re asserting yourself or your point of view and i just and i disappear am i going to be left behind or am i going to in this conversation or work or relationally really it feels like a relational abandonment when he’s not talking to me anymore he’s talking to them it’s like i might as well not even be here right well okay so it’s crazy how we’re about to address these exact the same things but what i’ll say is i mean first of all so long as there is a camera on me i am thinking about the audience for sure right and it also in in a negative way being a three being a performer who actually has an audience who actually has a camera on him all the time right if you there’s not a day that passes that you can’t go on the internet and see something new that i’m in so there is this image that exists of me that’s been built over over a over a long time over a decade and it is if i was only concerned about my personal health like if that was if the only motivation in life was personal health i would stop all this i i i would i would be like i need i need to have no image i need to have no social media i need to have absolutely no interaction with an audience at all i need to go to a monastery shave my beard shave my hair and live in a robe with a bunch of other dudes who kind of look exactly like me um now there’s other things in life i think what we’re doing i think what we’re doing creatively is awesome i think that what we’re doing as a company and the things that we want to do in the world are great and i’m not gonna and don’t worry i’m not about to stop doing that but i’m just saying that so that’s a constant thing that i’m thinking about and battling is my demons right but i think another big i think one of the reasons that uh i tend to i mean it differs but in this context one of the reasons i’ll talk to the audience is because the same reason that when we did our deconstruction stories i tended to kind of talk about the thought process that i had gone through and kind of talked about it in a persuasive way even when i’m trying actively to not be persuasive and to try to bring you onto my team and try to get you to think like me i tend to just present everything as if i’m trying to convince you of something yeah threes are the ultimate persuaders right and so we just can’t help it we speak in a persuasive way now when it comes to the enneagram there’s a practical side to it which is you already know all this stuff right and so i feel like the audience is listening into a conversation about us and they’re getting they’ve been asking for this conversation about the enneagram you haven’t been asking about it because you we’ve been talking about it on our own personally for years so i think i tend to just direct my attention to the audience because it’s just like hey this is you know this is new information for you but let me read through the ways threes tend to find ones because it’s going to talk about what you just did and then i will tell you exactly the thing that i was hinting at earlier which is kind of related to what you just said on the other hand threes tend to find ones too rigid and judgmental in their attitudes and inflexible in various areas while threes generally value one’s organizational ability and ability to get things done threes can feel that ones are too narrow-minded and methodical too perfectionistic and focused on details rather than results we don’t need to get into that you already know that that’s that’s something that we talk about a lot but threes may have issues with ones about feeling they are being stifled or judged both for their attitudes and for their actions so i’ll stop here because i think that that was the only issue i had with the last podcast was in my mind what i have been doing throughout the conversation and again i’m not saying i don’t fall into the trap of image management and i gladly readily admit that it’s probably never going to go away but what i is but then i spent some time talking about like being in the feeling triad and being like i know y’all don’t think i’m i feel anything you i know y’all think i’m insensitive i’m actually feeling a lot of things and i’m just coming to grips with the fact that i’m feeling all these things and that was one of the things i spent some time talking about and so then at the end of the conversation you were like seems like you were pretty concerned about like correcting some misconceptions about you right and you said and so the way i felt in that moment was judged right i was like i made a decision to be vulnerable right i made a decision to kind of go a little bit deeper and pull the curtain back in a way that’s vulnerable and kind of exposing myself and saying that like yeah i have this inner performer who’s constantly trying to put the best foot forward who’s feeling a lot of things who’s figuring these things out who’s going to therapy for these things and then you kind of took the opportunity to be like it seems like you’re managing managing your image right now right and so the judgment and i yeah and i i think that was my yeah so you know i’m sorry for that because the one thing that i did think about because again on my car right back i’m like you know what at that point where rhett was like really getting worked up about how he doesn’t feel like he’s worthy like i wish i would have said you’re worthy i wish i would have just stated it and i felt like yeah this is another point where it’s um i think i was i was being critical of like as we weren’t the the episode wasn’t going the way that i wanted to go conversationally it was when things get more presentational it it it doesn’t um that’s not a mode when i feel like i can contribute to making a good product i can make a good episode so i think there’s some underlying things there that i was like i was starting to get frustrated that like this isn’t going well because it’s just we’re not listening to each other we’re both just taking turns saying whatever we thought we needed to say about ourselves and a good air biscuit is when we connect with each other and if we don’t meet that criteria i start to get frustrated and i was like he’s not listening to me but i’m also not listening to him and it’s just you know this must just totally suck and then i’m like i’m just gonna i’m gonna throw something out there that is going to uh i think part of it was a dig because i was frustrated and then part of it was a way to at least it was like i’ll throw something juicy out there that he can respond to that’ll that’ll get us out of our notes and it was so it was manipulative so you know i i tend when things don’t go right i tend to like i said sing sink my teeth and my claws into and start to control what’s happening in order to right the ship to fix things uh but i’d you know i’d i’ll admit there was like i was i was starting to like feel a little hurt there was like some emotion there and ag and again it was like that’s not really i think everything you said and explain to where you’re coming coming from without how you’re presenting information and stuff like that my growth is in terms of our relationship one of the things is trying to celebrate your strength even if i’m not an active part of it in that moment like if there’s moments in a podcast where you can play to the strength of presenting information and being persuasive or taking a risk and being vulnerable that’s actually what you were doing there but my i was in such a headspace that by that point i wasn’t listening enough to appreciate that that’s what you were doing you know i was so i was kind of writing you off all of these things were going on in my head but it’s not and and then it comes across as judgment so the last thing i’m trying to say right now is i admit that those things were you know i was judging the episode and i was i was also doing the other things i’ve already said uh but you i i understand you weren’t you weren’t doing you weren’t doing anything to dig me like whenever you look at your notes or you decided to address the audience directly that like it’s nowhere on your radar that that would hurt my feelings and i also know it actually shouldn’t hurt my feelings it should be something that i should i should celebrate because it’s at moments where we can lean into our strengths we should both do that you know yeah and you know to be clear the only reason i brought it up is is because of the way that it’s so perfectly speaking you should i know but i think you should have brought it well you can say that it hurt your feelings well no it can also that could also be a reason to bring it up well i know it did because you because like you said you took a risk but yeah but you’re being vulnerable i just want to be clear that it that it wasn’t like i mean this is a tendency this is a tendency in our relationship and something that we have you know comes up from time to time where i’m like i kind of feel judged for thinking that or doing that in that way but it but it’s also something that i’m very aware is a dyna it’s a personality dynamic so i don’t spend a lot of time like letting resentment build up it was it was more like oh this is actually as i read through this i was like this is a good opportunity to bring that up as an illustration i’m not yeah of course what i’m getting at is yes i hurt my feelings it didn’t hurt my feelings and to such a degree that i was like apart from us doing this second part of the podcast i would have never said anything about it i think i mean right or wrong i would have never said anything about it i don’t know that that’s a good thing so i mean you see i so i don’t think that redeems anything no i actually think i mean don’t you think growth for you is is is confronting me about it well yeah but the point i guess the point is is that because that’s those feelings if every single time i felt judged by you i said that hurts my feelings and brought it up we would never get anything done and which is exactly what’s like that’s what i’m saying too every every single time that i feel like something you do that has a a side effect of it that it it pricks my insecurities you know i shouldn’t point that out to you even because that’s for me to work out it’s it’s you’re not doing anything wrong but i think if if there was a little part of that that got a little tense because maybe i was maybe i was doing something wrong ones tend to search for things to confess so that they can get the criticism out of the way too so maybe i’m also doing that maybe um but let me i want to finish reading this paragraph three c ones critiques of them well threes thrive on praise but stressed ones are unable to give any credit to themselves much less to anyone else three c one’s critiques of them is nitpicking and time wasting so again i think one of the things that happens with me is if like you’re going to critique me or something like that like what i did in the moment is you said it seems like you’re protecting your image or whatever and i and i just owned it and said yeah i’m all about image management which was kind of a joke but also kind of a confession like yeah we’ve been talking about that and yes that is an element of what i’ve been doing um but there’s also but there’s there’s also a part of it that is just a general vulnerability but it’s the that’s the that’s the crazy the crazy internal battle is like you make a decision to it’s just like i was talking about with meditation the moment that i begin actually doing meditation in the right way and focusing on my breath and not being preoccupied with the thought is the moment that i begin observing myself doing that and giving myself a pat on the back and being like look at you look at you all the people who are watching you meditate right now which is no one you know what I’m saying yeah so I’m constantly dealing with that on this on this podcast as any conversation that I’m in the moment that i choose to be uh oh a perfect example like um you know we had Christy’s uh birthday thing at your house and Jessie had the idea which is very Jessie idea a very two idea which is let’s go around and say things that we like about Christy yeah some people are comfortable with that and some people are not I’m not information circles I’m typically not comfortable with that I’m I’m not I’m you would think that as a three i would be comfortable receiving it but i’m also not comfortable receiving it in that context right because it feels unwarranted and it doesn’t feel like i did anything to receive the praise it just feels like you’re all gonna just sit here and tell me things you like about me yeah because that’s you’re worthy without because i don’t do anything yeah right if you want to talk about how good my paella was or something like that it’s like okay i’m okay with that but you just want to talk about me i’m not so but i have been in therapy i have been you know i’ve been trying to address these things and even before therapy i was aware of some of these tendencies i just couldn’t label them and analyze them in the right way but it was just like okay i want to say something about Christy that means something to Christy but i also want to say something about Christy that no one else says about Christy right i want to say something that’s unique and original about Christy um and then in the moment of saying it it’s like there’s two things happening there’s like i am enjoying being able to tell Christy the things that i appreciate about her because that’s meaningful to her she’s enjoying this she’s not completely comfortable with it either but she’s got she is becoming comfortable with it and as we go as we go around the circle and do it but i’m also thinking i wonder how that stacked up to what everyone else said and then of course when science mike went it was just like he’s on another level of being able to deliver that he’s like in his absolute element oh yeah like he pulls things out in these africa if he wants to he gave in and that he gave three analogies like there was a sunrise analogy a tree a tree analogy and i don’t know a wolf and a wolf but the crazy thing i mean in fairness he did go last which that was that was no but like and and of course but he probably could have gone first and what am i thinking in that moment i’m like damn mike is so good at this i’ll never be as good as he is at that well i’m the one that everybody made fun of when it was over i mean i think that my wife is hot and fun [Music] i mean i could go into a lot of other things and did i did well did i think about it the rest of the night her defense yes in her defense you misspoke a little bit and you were talking about when y’all met and you said you were hot and fun it’s what you said and i know that’s not what you meant but that’s what happened trust me i know that’s what everybody likes you know what christy never said anything but i’ve been she knows you very well and she knows how to appreciate the things that you have that you that you bring to the team she’s so hot and fun now um two okay uh but okay getting into the one the one thing like the very next sentence is eventually threes start to avoid ones uh because there’s so much nitpicking and criticism then that triggers one’s abandonment issues which triggers more anger and criticism which is exactly what happened during the podcast yes so you felt like i was abandoning you by talking to the audience and you judged me it felt abandoned and then you criticize me and and also but also my definition of a good episode is when we connect and they’re just listening in and you know and plus i don’t have i don’t work in that mode of talking to the audience i’m i don’t feel like i’m good at presenting information so it’s like i then i’m i’m left out you are good at acknowledging and taking into account the audience in a lot of in different other other mediums like okay this is what what is the camera seeing right now i’m going to look into this camera it’s like i’m kind of like i don’t care about looking in that camera well the the work that i’m doing on if we talk about good mythical morning is like i believe that the show is its best when we are at most ourselves in connecting with each other and being as honest having the most honest fun we can have but ironically the more so the more that i assert control the harder that is to happen like when i can just go with the flow is is is when it starts to work yeah and um so that’s my work is reminding myself of that i mean if just a couple of notes i made about my my growth is the more that i understand myself it’s like not taking those things too seriously like using humor to lighten up about my tendencies my perfectionism um so starting to harness those eccentricities for comedy uh it allows me to acknowledge that it’s a bit ridiculous and that it’s a bit overboard and that it’s that’s what makes it funny and so it disarms it some within within myself and i actually think that you harness in terms of growth you harness your tendencies for comedy too when it’s like you know the whole artist thing where like you’re really just just making something up and like that’s that’s harness that might be harnessing um you know image management or just being able to pres that whole deceit thing like it sounds so nasty but you found a way to turn that into an a comedic angle and i that’s just something i thought of i don’t know how on the show or in terms of comedy if there’s if you’re able to to to use that as your path for growth well i i i well i thought i don’t necessarily think it’s a path for growth but i do think that the uh the three’s ability something i read in one of the books was that um threes are the best of any of the numbers at reading a room and like knowing this is what’s required in this space right now to rise to the top to rise to the top right um so one of the things that ends up happening is just like i i feel like i could hang out with anybody any group of people and kind of assimilate right so there’s one thing about sort of assimilating and then sort of figuring out what is the pecking order in this group and again this is a subconscious thing this isn’t something that i don’t manipulate you know to have this like manipulative uh strategic mindset it’s just you find yourself just oh that’s what happened i saw when i got into that group so i think in comedy just the ability to uh know the mode that we’re in and again like i have to commit to it but if oh i’m gonna commit to being this guy that doesn’t believe that finland exists i can go i can go all the way right and you might actually at the end think maybe feeling doesn’t exist a couple other things in terms of my growth in oneness you know they talk about a one can move to two every number can move to two different numbers in growth so a one can move forward growth and stress one is good and one is bad oh okay one is one is the integration one is disintegrating okay so i can move forward to a four and for me that’s pursuing artistic expression without evaluation right you know so i mean we pursue so much artistic expression but i evaluate all of it so it’s actually saying well i’m just going to sit over here and i’m going to doodle just for the hell of it and bad example but you know looking for those things and then talking about a one moving back to a seven there is a positive spin um on that 2b growth which is to reclaim a playful and spontaneous impulse of childhood which again i think that’s that’s kind of the best vibe of good mythical morning when when i’m able to do that to to give myself freedom to say the best thing i can do here is to not control and not analyze and think about is everything in the right place on the desk is everything is this moving at a fast enough pace or is this episode going to be too long when i start trying to be a producer i’m doing other people’s jobs and i’m no longer doing the job that only i can do which is be like unhinged me in the moment listening and i think everyone will agree that that’s the from an entertainment standpoint that’s the link that we all want yeah and it’s so i know that my tendency is to not do that so it’s like whether it’s in gmm or in my entire life just working hard to relax more you know uh make room for pleasure don’t fix things that don’t need fixing um and as we’ve talked about on other podcasts treat myself with the same kindness and respect that i show to others and have this question in my mind of do i want to be right or do i want to be happy and or even if i want to make a really good product that means letting go i it’s it’s great that we have a team and we’ve we’ve set up an environment where i can actually like if i’m the healthier i am the better it is yeah and that’s what’s so tricky as we talk about the the growth and the stress for a three so for you your growth uh for whatever reason directly feeds into you being uh you know more fun more spontaneity spontaneous uh spontaneous and a and b you become a better performer but my problem is being a performer right so that’s why many entertainers are threes lots of actors are threes because they know how to get into a situation and assume an identity right they’re the masters at it and so uh they actually are rewarded in entertainment by detaching from their authentic self and becoming something that somebody else wants them to be so that’s the irony in what we do as entertainers is that i could actually be really good at our job and be very unhealthy because on the opposite end of the spectrum so the disintegration uh sort of the stress arrow for a three is to go to nine we become disengaged and apathetic uh which is like an unhealthy nine and this doesn’t happen many times in my life but there are times when i feel so overwhelmed so stressed out and there’s a common theme with threes is they’ve worked so hard that they become physically ill right that’s why i went to therapy because of what was happening with my eye and my back and all that stuff yeah um but in in integration and growth uh threes become more cooperative and committed to others like healthy sixes so again threes tend to be just ruthlessly independent and not have time for people we don’t have time for relationships we don’t have time for people and and this can be of great detriment to friendships and marriages right my wife because those are people yeah we’re not it looks like we’re not gonna necessarily have time to talk about the threes and the how the three interacts with the twos but i mean basically you can give them a little we can give them a little bit of um okay so twos i mean i cut the other one short because of the dentist two is what my wife is so twos fundamentally feel that threes put work and career before them their children and home life primarily uh primary values values for twos they feel that threes are too focused on success and that they are missing the really valuable things in life freeze on the other hand can feel stifled by the two’s insistence on the need to spend time together threes field twos are smothering and emotionally manipulative making them feel guilty for working hard and making the most of themselves now this is a generalization of course but this is the thing that Jessie and i end up fighting about right because again i go on vacation and I’m not present I’m not it takes me three days before i can be present on a vacation and even then if you give me a little bit of time alone I’m going to be writing something I’m going to be coming up with an idea i can’t it’s just i and and I’ve talked to my therapist about this and he’s like well first of all you don’t need to judge you don’t need to judge yourself for going into creative mode if you’re because you are also a naturally creative person and that’s something that brings you joy and you’re learning how to become even a better more efficient channel at kind of receiving ideas and bringing them into the world but you have to know when to turn that off and when to turn that on and if it’s specifically happening to the detriment of you being present with your wife and being present with your family then it’s a problem you need to turn off and focus on them because ultimately like i said last night last time for me it’s I’m do do do do do and i need to be b b b i need to be present and specifically it’s kind of ironic since i talked about this being the reason that i grew my hair out and what i was trying to do in therapy and that was before i even really understood how important this was to a three but this is from the wisdom of the enneagram the goal of the three is to connect with the heart when they are able to reconnect with their hearts healthy threes model the essential gift of authenticity like no other type their behavior becomes genuine not trying to be more or less than they really are they become simple and available revealing their true selves with honesty and humility again this whole idea of not being concerned with what you think and what the image is not over identifying with the image that i am projecting into the world and just be like who actually am i you know we don’t threes a lot of times we don’t even know what we want because we’ve made a game of our entire lives of figuring out what you want and figuring out a way to to bring it to you and so i have to be able to stop be like i don’t have to do anything right now i can just be i could be present and being present in relationship with the people that you know that’s going back to that sixth thing being available doing something for someone not just doing something for someone because it makes me like again everything that i do i can make it about me or i can make it about you i love to cook for people i’m discovering that cooking for people brings me joy when everyone is sitting there eating and they’re like this is great it brings me joy but the unhealthy and there’s a healthy service in that it’s like bringing joy to people and creating environments where people can have truly joyful experiences of eating food and having great company that’s all great all positive what i have to resist is that now you think something about me because i made this for you right that’s the constant battle but it doesn’t mean don’t do things for people in fact the more i can in fact the more you can choose to do things for people where it involves kind of folding in and doing something that’s not about bringing attention where you’re not doing something special where she’s like hey i’m just going building this house with these folks and i’m do i’m i’m got a hammer and that guy’s got a hammer and no one’s no one’s in charge i mean there’s another person who’s in charge it’s not me so kind of folding in and and being with people serving alongside people those are things that are good for me to kind of get out of that performance mentality um was there anything else in relating to Jessie because i think it’s you kind of you kind of hit him maybe i mean i the the one thing that we’ve always talked about is how Jessie is sort of the personal personable one in our relationship and i kind of a long time ago it’s like Jessie’s going to be the one who’s going to like talk to people and you know if we have somebody staying with us like she’ll stay up and talk to him i’ll go i’ll go to bed because somebody’s gonna do it and it’s like twos in particular bring a more personal individual focus to their interactions with others they are thoughtful and follow up exchanges with genuine kindness and compassion threes bring flexibility charm practicality and goal-oriented vision for ways the couple can improve twos like to feel proud of their loved ones and threes want to make their partner proud i think you you know you have a good you have a that’s the you throw a good party for that reason yeah you know and the the to the two three combination is like the most um socially i don’t know what the word was but basically exactly what you just said they’re gonna be the couple who’s gonna throw a party and everyone’s gonna have a good time because the two both the two and the three are both image conscious and so they’re actually thinking about how good is the party that we’re gonna throw and if you’ve got two people who are committed to each other in this way or where it’s like you know we’re going to do an awesome party for everybody and it might there might be some unhealthy motivation in there which is because people will think we’re great the benefit to being friends with twos and threes is that well there’s going to be a great party you know what i’m saying right um for me and christy she’s a six uh so ones and sixes both excel at analytical thinking and both worry about things going wrong ones tend to feel anxious about making mistakes and sixes tend to feel general anxiety related to many things potentially going wrong in life so for christy she gets worried about the things that she can’t control and i i only worry about the things that i can control i’ve got an assignment i’ve got a test i’ve got this thing i need to do planes christy hates planes because she has no control and there is a she can she can visualize a worst case scenario even if the movie playing on the plane is not about a plane crash she can she she’s watching it right um but for me i love plane flights because there’s nothing i can do right yeah and i ignore the fact that there’s wi-fi on a plane now like i don’t even want to have wi-fi i love the fact that you put me in this shell where it’s like for x number of hours i can’t do anything i’m just like i’m not being measured to anything i’m sitting here and i can i can read i can listen i can think i think so freely on a plane and then i look over at christy and she’s like shaking this is a great idea for if not a book like how each number approaches a flight there’s so much in that because the way a three approaches the flight is i’m like okay i’m flying across the country i got four and a half hours what am i gonna accomplish you know what can i come up with right in this four and a half hours and i’m like and if i can i can finally relax and if i make the choice to watch the movie and not write i think that i’m worthless i feel bad about myself um and also i don’t talk to anybody next to me whereas a two jessie she’ll start she’ll start a conversation with somebody like oh she’s talking to somebody yeah for i mean christy and i both have a strong sense of duty and honor we like showing up on time we like following the rules we both love um organization and cleanliness having our house in order a lot of these very practical things about putting our lives together systematically um she has a it gives her a sense of security and and it gives me a sense of um control that like this is i i can i can perfect this because i’m i can control it and so that really plays out really well practically we don’t argue about those things like a lot of those pet peeves at home type stuff we’re almost always on the same page and you know i was giving myself a hard time of like um not allowing myself to just just fall in love with christy and that be enough for us to be together i was so i had to have all the right answers and be able to to defend my decision to propose with data but i do think i was picking up on our compatibility as ones and sixes when it comes to a lot of the practicalities yeah the things that we’ll argue about um now ones will come to decisions quickly because we’re more sure of ourselves and our opinions and tens sixes tend uh to be unsure because there’s so many things that could go wrong so there’s there’s the indecisiveness sixes bring a warmth and more emotional responsiveness and availability so there is a bit of that like what what you you were describing with you and Jessie there’s some of that with me and Christy too in terms of like uh that emotional responsiveness and being able to being able to be warmly connect with people yeah is is something that she really helps me with but sharing burdens and chores that’s totally equal both are steadfast loyal and faithful to each other wanting to build a solid foundation together both can count on the other and that gives both of us room to relax and but sometimes my criticisms can fuel uh her six insecurities in our relationship so there’s there’s in the same kind of like our dynamic i can kind of push her away with perceived criticism right even more to myself but it’s people only hear that no it’s perceived as a threat so we have to work through well you talk about the whole like initial sort of attraction uh compatibility thing and again not to say that any number can be compiled in compatible i mean like some are going to be more challenging if you’re both eights like that’s gonna be a challenging relationship i mean but there’s all kinds of different challenges two and a three so Jessie tells the story so again the three is the performer and the two is the the helper and again there’s better ways to describe that but that’s how it’s often described um one of the ways that this sort of works out is the three loves being in the spotlight and the two loves having someone who’s in the spotlight that they can put into the spotlight and Jessie remembers uh pretty much the one of the first times we ever interacted with each other you know we had met like at church one time or whatever i ended up inviting her up to the campus crusade meeting which i was emceeing and i knew i would be emceeing it and not only that it was one of those uh it was one of those those times where we had made a video where it was me going and finding greg somewhere on campus and like bringing him into the thing yeah and uh and so there was this video that played and then i like danced down the aisle and then took the microphone and started speaking to everybody and she tells the story of like that’s very attractive to a two this guy just came in and like performed for a few hundred people and danced down the aisle and then took the thing and started doing a monologue and that was like the moment that she started to fall in love with me good bad or indifferent what the reasons are but like she was attracted to that and then once i saw the way that she responded to me exerting myself in the in in those places i was like oh she likes this specifically she exactly she’s a she is a fan of what i’m doing and she appreciates it right and again there there’s it could this could seem very shallow but it there’s actually this whole idea of the two so you uh this this is like a lot of political honestly a lot of political couples are the politician is a three and the spouse is a two um i’m i think barack and michelle are or this combination but the but there but the the um i thought michelle was a one yeah maybe they’re not no she’s maybe she’s a three but the they may both be threes but the uh this has been a source of strength in our relationship but the thing that has been a source of strife at the same time is the fact that twos actually also want to be the center of attention right and Jessie Jessie was a performer like she she was she was on stage she’s always been a performer and so there’s a resentment that can build um when you get into a relationship and the three continues to sort of exert themselves and kind of be in the spotlight and the two is doing is loves the fact that they’ve got somebody who’s in the spotlight somebody they can be proud of and somebody that they can keep pushing into the spotlight and first of all as i’ve said many times Jessie was is a huge reason that i’m doing what i’m doing she directly encouraged me to pursue this career and along the way has kind of directed a lot of the decisions that i’ve made and but she can also tweet but she wants she but as a two she wants credit for that naturally she wants she wants credit for that and so if it gets to a point where i feel if i start to be like well i’m the one who’s doing all the cool stuff and you’re supporting me in that and that’s actually the way that i would communicate that then the relationship begins to disintegrate we both have to give each other our props in other words you know in in a healthy a healthy way and if we don’t do that then these these can become very toxic that’s where the the two and the three becomes very toxic if they’re competing if they’re competing for attention and they’re both unhealthy thankfully we’ve we’ve been aware of this dynamic and have been able to harness it and and uh and Jessie of course is also in therapy and dealing with all her own too and so we both are able to um you know have a healthy marriage for 20 years michelle obama is a one by the way and josh groban is a two oh so this is the josh groban barack obama relationship i know i can’t remember there’s a two three relationship that is in some book and i can’t remember who it is um okay we we should wrap this up huh we did it we did the enneagram episode i’ve got a wreck um there’s you know so much of this enneagram stuff can be the test and it can be pretty heady and i wanted to recommend uh an episode of a podcast called sleeping at last sleeping at last is the moniker of according to his website chicago-based singer-songwriter producer and composer ryan o’neill he’s friends of friends but we’ve we’ve never met and maybe it’s better that way this um this dude he he he has all these series on his podcast which again is sleeping at last but he had a sub series where he wrote a song for each number of the enneagram and you can as you’re digging into this if you want more of an artistic processing something that’s kind of it’s more heart first than kind of head first way to approach it um the first song he wrote i mean it was back in october of 2017. so if you just start sleeping at last and then enneagram and your number that the episode will pop will pop up but the one agent elvis presley is a three and priscilla was a two oh elvis and person elvis and priscilla that worked out well yeah so if if you start sleeping at last enneagram in your number like for me one it’ll pop up and the song that he wrote i hadn’t listened to it in a couple of years every time i go back and listen to it like you know i don’t like using the phrase but like i feel so seen like it taps into the emotionality of your number in a way that like even sitting here on the website and just reading the lyrics to myself i can just feel my throat start to close up like i’m about to burst into tears well i was on the treadmill at the gym with a lot of people and Jessie was like oh you got to listen to the he just released the three song i put the three song on it’s amazing i was weeping on the treadmill i’m starting to just tear up right now not only is it incredible music uh but and i think the three is the best song but but also um everyone who contributes musically on each song is that enneagram well he goes through the entire process it’s crazy and but again it’s like a different way into experiencing it’s so such an empathetic treatment of your number to feel like you’re known and accepted for this another way to know it’s another way to begin to discover what you are if you burst into you probably will if you if you read the lyrics and you understand the lyrics listen to the song and it’s like that’s me you’re probably that number hashtag ear biscuits um appreciate all the enneagram conversation that’s happening using that hashtag so uh let us know how you how you’re responding to this and you know i i feel i feel good i’m not gonna analyze this thing because well because i already have and i feel great about this episode i feel like at the end of every episode could be linked to are you cool with this one and i would i would have an answer for you uh this one’s eight plus man you can make all the comments you want and it redeemed the last one which i gave a d to and i shouldn’t have but i’m going to resist the urge to go read the comments because i don’t want to find my self-worth and your approval oh snap we’ll talk at you next week to watch more ear biscuits click on the playlist on the right to watch the previous episode of your biscuits click on the playlist to the left and don’t forget to click on the circular icon to subscribe if you prefer to listen to this podcast it’s available on all your favorite podcast platforms thanks for being your mythical best 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