Welcome to Ear Biscuits, the podcast where two lifelong friends talk about life for a long time. I’m Rhett. And I’m Jessie. Woo! This week at the Round Table of Dim Lighting, it’s not Link. It’s moi. It’s my wonderful wife, Jessie- Me. That’s me, right? Lane McLaughlin. I’m your wife. You might be a little bit confused because Jessie is sitting where I usually sit, which was her request. I don’t really understand it. You don’t know why. Can I tell you why I did that? Yeah, I will say, you’re making me feel a little uncomfortable on my own podcast. And that was the point. This was a power move. Okay. You did it. Because, you know, I’m the guest here. Although I have been a main character for many years. Oh! Uh-huh, yes. Mm-hm. I can’t disagree with that. And, you know, you’re comfy. When I was nervous about this, you were saying like, “Don’t worry, it’s not a big deal. It’s nothing.” And yeah, it’s nothing because you do this literally every day. So are you saying that when somebody is entering into a situation where they might be a little bit nervous, it’s not best, I’m just minimizing. I’m just doing what McLaughlins do. We minimize things. If somebody gets hurt, if somebody dies, if somebody is going through something very difficult, we’re like, “Yeah, but yeah. I mean, but look on the bright side. It’s not that big of a deal.” I just wanted you to feel a sliver of the discomfort that I felt. Yeah. And feel. I’m not used to talking to people on the right side of my face. That’s right. And so, you know, it was, it was a power move and I’m proud of that. Do you feel comfortable? Are you good to go? I do. I actually do feel much more comfortable doing this knowing that you’re gonna be here ’cause you’re gonna make me laugh and- Well, don’t speak too soon. And that is gonna make me feel more like myself instead of being, like, a weird person that’s on camera. The weird person part is fine. We were talking about that. The on camera part’s a little tough. Well, let’s just pretend- Mm-hm. That we’re just at our house in our, not in our bedroom. Just let’s just be in the kitchen. Okay? Okay. We’re in the kitchen. I have my tea. And we’re just talking. Thank you, Jenna, for making me tea. And this is like, we find out later that someone is taking the Nest cam footage and putting it on the internet. But really we didn’t know what we were being filmed. We didn’t know what these things in front of us were, these microphones. Do you know what I mean? I do. But that sounds like it introduces a whole other set of problems. Who is this person in our kitchen or with access to the cameras in our house? Apparently, it’s actually pretty easy to get access to the cams. That’s why when I’m at home, I’m always acting as if I am on a TV show. Have you noticed that? I never say or do anything at home- It checks out that. That I would not want captured for a reality television show. It’s like I basically live my life as if I am on “Big Brother”. And that’s one of the things that makes me such a great life partner, right? Totally, babes. We asked you to ask us, and especially Jessie, questions that we are now going to go through. So, I mean, basically it was anything, anything that you wanted to ask. And some are voicemails, some are tweets. Mm-hm. My fave. You wanna get started? Or would you like And I’m gonna continue to call them tweets. Let’s just Oh yeah, I’m not gonna call them excretions. I don’t call them whatever the other thing is. Yeah. You wanna talk about how you feel about that whole thing? Not really. I don’t wanna start this off. You’re mourning the death- I am. The slow death of Twitter. I am. And it’s been difficult for me just to be a part of. You love Twitter so dang much. You’re so good at it. You really are really good at it. That’s very sweet. I don’t think that’s true, but I think I just care about it more than you. No, you really understand it. You understand it. I like it. You just don’t go to Twitter to look at what people are saying about you like I do. I like how, and I guess this is really true for any social media app, but for some reason it feels especially true on Twitter, that I can look at like, news, fashion, find out, like, some celeb gossip, talk to somebody about their spiritual, what they’re going through spiritually. Like, it’s such a wide array. Like, I can follow scientists. I just followed this NASA, female NASA engineer. You know, that’s exciting. Yeah. And it’s good for somebody with ADHD. But I will say, you’re kind of making your, and I do think that your Twitter experience is rather sophisticated. But I will say, it is not uncommon for you- Uh-oh. To show me something from the internet, often Twitter. And it’s always very sophisticated, what I show you, right? No, no, no, no, no. It’s super sophisticated stuff. I would say that. High level big brain stuff I’m showing you. No, I would say 25 to 30% of the time, the thing that you show me is something that is amazing you, that then when you show it to me, I’m like, “Baby, that’s fake.” That is a lie. That’s not real. That is a lie, I thought That’s CGI. No. That happened once. That audio was put on there by somebody else. That happened one time. I am good at spotting fakes. I thought you were gonna say, that’s why I was laughing ’cause I did not think you were gonna throw me under the bus, I thought it was gonna be cute. I think it’s wonderful. I love that about you. I love being able to spot fake things. I thought the thing that you were gonna say is that I show you animals doing various things and I’m like, “Can you believe this animal is doing this?” Yeah, and sometimes, but sometimes you show me fake animal things. I think that was, like, once, like, three years ago. Anyway, let’s get to the questions. I love the way you use the internet. Thanks, babes. It’s very sexy. Yeah, what did you tell me, you said recently, you told me I was showing you something you said, you know. I said you’re amazed by a lot of things. Yeah. And you didn’t mean it as a compliment. You said I was amazed by a lot of things, but it felt like a backhanded compliment. It felt like there was a little jab in in there. No, no. I like being around someone who, there’s a sense of discovery that is constantly. A sense of wonder. Yes, it’s a sense of wonder. And I really appreciate it. Uh-huh. How about we get started with a question? Okay, great. This is from Twitter. This is just_a_belle. What do you find annoying, let’s get started with that, but secretly endearing about the other? Annoying, but secretly endearing. Now, I had a tough time with this one. Oh, I’m sure you did. I don’t find you annoying. I don’t find you annoying either. I really enjoy your company. I feel the same. We have a really good time together. We like dating one another. We like traveling together. But of course, we’ve been married for how many, 23? 2. 22. We’re coming up on 23 this year. 22 years. This coming year. And so, of course, I mean, there are things that eventually may become annoying. But, well, you wanna go first? No, I want you to go first. Okay. And again, annoying, but secretly endearing. I just wanna, I wanna clarify that. So when Jessie is talking on the phone to someone okay? I know what you’re gonna say. Okay, so. I’m just gonna sit over here and drink my tea. Sometimes it goes like this. She gets on the phone and then all of a sudden, it’s like, “Oh no. Oh no. Oh. Oh, I am so sorry. Oh no.” Kind of like that. I’m probably not doing it as well as she does it. Well, that’s true. And then I’m like, “Who died? Who died?” ‘Cause obviously someone very close to this person died or they were in a horrible accident, or they just got a horrible diagnosis. And then you get off the phone and I’m like, “What happened?” And you’re like, “Christy stubbed her toe.” And then other times, you’ll be on the phone and you’re like, “Oh no, I’m so happy for you. Oh, that is wonderful. That is so wonderful. I am so happy for you. Oh. That brings me a lot of joy.” And then I’m like, “Okay, all right. Somebody won the lottery. Somebody got a promotion.” How many people do we know that have won the lottery? None. But I don’t know, but it seems that way. Something incredible has happened. And then I’m like, “What happened?” And you’re like, “Christy found her keys.” So what I mean by this is that you are so expressive and you are so empathetic on the phone. And in life in general, that of course, the thing that’s annoying about it is I feel like every time, you fool me. Every time I’m like, “What is it? What is it gonna be?” And then it’s something rather insignificant. Mm. Which is, you know what, the reason it’s endearing is because it’s way better than not being emphatic and empathetic. Emphatic? Hm. Mm-hm. And also, this is not what I give people when they talk to me on the phone. That is true. If you’re listening to me talk on the phone, it’s like, okay, either someone died or he’s, like. changing the nature of his cell phone service. You know, you don’t know what There’s a lot of, “Mm-hm.” Mm-hm. I’m a businessman. Link’s the boy, I’m the businessman. So I keep it all business when I’m on the phone. I have something to say about you being a businessman. Hold on, but I think that’s, again, I think it’s wonderful. Mm-hm. You love that about me? I love the fact that you, no. And I think I end up, I end up using this in the context of our coupleness. Because sometimes I’m like, okay, somebody’s telling us, this in person. Somebody’s telling us something right now that’s difficult or great. And I just know that Jessie’s gonna give everything they need. And so I can kind of just nod. And it has handicapped me a little bit, I do believe. I believe that maybe when I have someone, something happen to someone that’s good or bad and I’m only one there, I start panicking a little bit. But I think that was happening before I came on the picture. Yeah, it’s not, my family is not great at this particular trade. I am not talking about your family. No, no, I’m just saying that like we, again- I love your family. We could be pretty stoic is what I’m saying. Like, you know. And so, but we’re all learning, we’re all trying to get better at it. Now what about me? What’s annoying about me? Lots of things. No. One thing I have realized that I just wanna preemptively apologize for is that I am swiveling in this chair a lot. I think me having a swivel chair is probably a bad idea. Oh, I like to watch you swivel. So if it’s making anybody nauseous, I’m sorry. But it is soothing me. So, you know, I think this is a common thing. We’re driving in the car. Uh-oh. You’re driving. Yeah. Because you always like to drive. Yeah. Uh-huh. I like to have something to hold onto. And- The steering wheel. I’m doing something on my phone. Looking at amazing things on the internet, being amazed left and right. Or being very empathizing with someone on the phone. And we drive past something, often an animal, a cow, or a house or an interesting- Are you getting a phone call? I think I am. I turned my phone off. Well, why don’t you answer it and empathize with this person? Why don’t we get a real time demonstration of how good you can make somebody, how cared for you can make someone feel? Oh God. What if it’s a telemarketer? Do you wanna turn your phone on do not disturb? I can. I can do that. Should I get up and do that? ‘Cause this lady gets all kinds of phone calls. Well, if you empathize with people, you get phone calls. She’s a businesswoman. She runs her own business and she’s constantly on the phone. We took that trip to Big Sur. We were on the road for six hours. You were a businessladying things up over there for three and a half hours. I was like, I gotta just sit here and listen to the one side of a business conversation. How the turns have tabled. Ha! Ha! Yeah, I don’t like to take my work with me- Ha! To Big Sur. Aha! You want me to turn my phone off or not? I think it’s fine. I don’t think I’ll get another call. If I get another call- If you get another call, we’ll turn it off. Then I’ll turn it off. Okay. What were we talking about? Okay, yes. On the road. So there’s something that in the immediate environment that we’re passing that you think is noteworthy. Yeah. And you will say to me, “Look at that.” But when you say it, and I don’t, you know, I’m a slow processor. I’m a little bit of a slow processor. I didn’t play, like, basketball. But I’m just asking you to look at something. No, no, no. But sometimes it takes me a second. I’m not asking you to comprehend it. And then you might, there’s a very specific spot. So you’ll say, “Look at that.” And I’ll just look at the first spot that I’m thinking you’re talking about. But no, there’s a specific spot an exact amount in the distance that you want me to look at. And then you get very frustrated if I do not look at it immediately. And there’s a little bit of shaming happening- I don’t believe that. That I am not already, in the car, looking at everything you’re looking at, waiting for you to say. But I’m, first of all, I’m driving. I’m not looking. Do you also see this? But it might be, “Look at that tree that looks just like a goat. Look at that. No, that one.” Right, but maybe that’s what you are looking at because you’re driving and that’s an experience for you. And my experiences might be digital. But I wanna share my experience with you. Well, and this is exactly why I find it, see, I’ve reframed this now. 22 years into our marriage. You know, there’s that Gottman Institute stuff that I’m a big fan of about relationships, communication, marriage. And they’re the ones who did the study where they could tell you within, like, nine minutes or seven minutes of watching couples talk- I think sometimes it’s like- On film- 30 seconds. On video, if they would, how likely they were to stay together. And there’s some just things, ways in which we communicate that Is it like touching like this helps? I mean, I’m sure that’s nice. I don’t think that’s one of the things. If there’s caressing like this- I do like it though. Then that means you’re gonna stay together. I like it when you caress my arm. Oh, let’s not do that. Okay, so I’ve reframed this because one of the things they talk about is in relationships are bids for connection. Yes. So it can be with your kids, it can be with your spouse, it can be with a friend. You know, when you say, “Hey, Jessie, look at that cow. Look at those cows over there.” Sometimes I just say cows. Right, right. Got a shorthand. Sometimes I just say the thing. The implication is, please look at it. And I don’t look up. What you’re actually saying in that moment is connect with me. Yes. See what I see. My love language is, “Look at that.” That’s right. And so now instead of being like, “Oh my gosh, he thinks what he’s looking at is the most important thing. It’s more important than what I’m doing.” I’m like, “Wow, he is wanting to connect with me as he’s driving down the road.” Mm-hm. I get lonely over there navigating, navigating the world as you do business. And I see things like, we went to Big Sur and on the way, we passed the lavender fields. And then the lavender’s dead at this point. But there’s lots of signs about lavender tea and lavender gifts. Well, you were very interested and enamored by the- Pistachios. Pistachios farm. Yeah. The Wonderful. That’s the brand name. We passed through the Wonderful Pistachio Farm. Yes. And they had pistachios. They had just trees and trees and trees. And then they had new places that they were growing little baby pistachio trees. I’m just so fascinated by that. Yeah, and you wanted to share your fascination. And it’s the same, it’s actually the same as me saying, “Look at this crazy giant squid that they found.” Right. But that’s why I tell you about things in real life. Because those pistachio trees are not fake. They were real. It was very, and that’s one of the ways we know that they were real, is we were driving by them. And so what I’m doing is, I’m trying to- This is not a bid for connection. I’m giving you an opportunity to learn. Telling someone that they look at fake, that they show you fake things, that’s not a bid for connection. You see those trees? That’s not photoshopped. That’s real life. And if you start learning the difference between photoshopped things and real life things, then nobody can dupe you. I’m just worried about you getting duped. Uh-huh. Okay? If somebody sends you a picture of me doing something that’s clearly photoshopped, you gotta be able to spot it. This sounds like you’re preparing for some, preparing me to get some kind of bad pictures. Here’s the thing is that CGI and AI- I know about AI. And the convergence of those things. I know about AI because there was a period where that is, I know about AI because I’m a person who lives in the world- Right. And I read things. You’ve seen a movie or two. But there was also a period where every date we went out on, the only thing that you would talk about is AI- It was during the beginning- And how concerned you were Of the revolution. And what we were gonna do about it. And we’re not gonna do anything about AI. We are going to be AIed. I haven’t solved it. In whatever way that means. Okay, next question. Okay. Would you like to do a voicemail? Yes. Let’s do that. We have that capability as well. Hey, Rhett and Jessie, my name is Mia and I’ve been married for about four years coming up this November. But you know, we all know the secret to, well, not so secret to a long-lasting marriage is communication, loyalty, all that good stuff. But I wanted to see if you guys had any secrets for the little things or silly things that you think has made your marriage last so long and keep it fun. Thanks, guys. Bye. So watch this. I’m gonna do a kind of a cool professional podcast thing. And I’m gonna say, we’ll answer that question in a minute. I’m just trying to impress my wife. But first, do you know about this? I don’t know if you know about this. Well, tell me. You do know that we’re releasing a cookbook. Yes, I know about this. Yes. So this is something that everybody out there in Mythical Land has requested time and time again. When are you guys gonna have a cookbook? I mean, you’re making all these, not us, but Josh and the team are making all these incredible recipes. When are we gonna have a cookbook? And we’re like, well, when we can do it right. You know how we do things at Mythical. We don’t like to be first. We like to, you know, be third or fourth and then do it right. And so “The Mythical Cookbook” written by Josh with the support of the entire Mythical Kitchen team. This thing, of course, features a lot of the fan favorite recipes that we have enjoyed on the show. And then a lot of new stuff that they have developed. You know, they’ve been, I mean, it’s like a lab over there. I mean, it’s like a kitchen, but it’s like a very scientific kitchen. Yeah, you actually came home telling me how good the cookbook was gonna be and how excited you were and how- She’s not making that up. I’m not. And how we were gonna have to make everything in the cookbook. Well, because I went to the photo shoot, which was very fun. We did a really awesome photo shoot. The visuals in the cookbook are gonna be incredible. And also the cover, which I’m on. I mean, but so is Josh and so is Link. And so is a lot of food. And we had a lot of Mythical people inside this photo shoot. But also just the way the food looks. We had to have the food there and we were eating the food in some of the shots and it’s just so good, they do such a good job. And now you can do that at home and you can pre-order. This thing doesn’t come out until March of next year, but you can pre-order it. So you will get it in the mail as soon as you possibly can. It also helps with sales numbers if you pre-order it. So do that. Mythical.com/cookbook. We made it very simple. Mythical.com/cookbook. You can go over and pre-order it right now. And also, as we’ve been asking you lately, if you enjoy this podcast, not just this particular episode, which I’m sure you are because- But especially this one. Because I have a much better co-host this week. But if you enjoy this podcast in general, please rate it and review it wherever you enjoy it. That’s also very helpful. Hmm. Ear Biscuits is supported by Rosetta Stone. You know why learning a new language is so good? Well, there’s multiple reasons, Link. I don’t know which one you’re about to say. Because it helps you communicate with people who don’t speak- Ah, yes. The language you speak. The most obvious answer. Yep. Yep. That’s a good one. It’s also really good for your brain to learn a new language. Yes, it can keep your brain from aging. In comes Rosetta Stone, the most trusted language learning program that truly immerses you in the language you want to learn. They’ve used trusted experts for 30 years with millions of users and 25 languages offered, including, but not limited to Spanish, French, German, Korean, Japanese, Dutch, and Arabic. It’s built for fast language acquisition, having no English translation so you really learn to speak, listen, and think in that language. And it’s super convenient with both desktop and app options, with audio companion and ability to download lessons offline. And it’s an amazing value as lifetime membership has all 25 languages for any and all trips or language needs in life. A $299 program, but with our code, you can get it for just 179. Don’t put off learning that language. There’s no better time than right now to get started. For a very limited time, you can get Rosetta Stone’s lifetime membership for 40% off. That’s $179 for unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your life. Redeem your 40% off at RosettaStone.com/Ear today. See how I did that. That was so good. Did you find it a little bit sexy? Yes. Thank you. Okay, Jessie, do you remember the question? I do. I got, it’s like a lockbox in there. The little things. Yeah. Not the obvious things- Right. Like communication and loyalty. Boring. What are the little things, the silly things that are a secret to a long-lasting relationship? You wanna start or you want me to? No, I’m just teeing it up for you. So many. First of all, I would like to preface this by saying, I like to preface a lot of things ’cause I don’t wanna be misunderstood. I will not give advice. None of this is advice. I think that there are very few people that I’m, no, there are a lot of people I’m willing to take advice from, I shouldn’t say that. I just don’t wanna be one of the people who gives advice. I will say what has been helpful in our relationship. Okay. Every situation is different. Thank you for couching that. Yep. In our relationship, I think, and this is actually, I think this goes back, everything goes back to the Gottman Institute, of little affirmations, little positive things. When you come home from work, I always feel really happy to see you. And we usually give each other a hug or a kiss. And it’s a, it weaves positive interactions. Even if after that I’m like, “This happened today”, or I’m pissed or, “Why did you do this?” And da da da. Like, it started off in a safe, positive place. And I think when there are a lot of those, when you have those in the bank, it creates a level of comfort and trust and safety. Mm. That was a great answer. It almost sounded like advice. It was not advice. Just so you realize. FYI, no, not advice. I don’t necessarily know if this is, well, I’ll ask you if you perceive this as a good thing. Because sometimes it might feel a little bit like an escape hatch from a difficult situation. But, well, the nature, and I’ve talked about this on the podcast quite a bit. The nature of our conflict over the course of our marriage is I don’t know, I’m just spit balling here in terms of like, as it is compared to the average couple. It’s probably high frequency, low amplitude, right? There tends to, most couples tend to be on one side of that. Sometimes there’s like, we never fight, but when we do, you better watch out. Or we have lots of little disagreements, but very rarely, like, a big blow up. Which we’re a little bit more on that side, which ’cause we both kind of speak our minds. And so it isn’t unusual in a given week of interactions for me to do something that makes you mad, right? And I have found that if I can make you laugh in that moment, it’s very helpful to me. Yeah, no, I think I do it and I feel like it’s, like, the button that I push a lot. I love that. I think laughter is like one of the most, being silly, we talked about this recently, how being silly is one of the most healing things. Mm-hm. And I think especially in the middle of discomfort, there’s a way to be silly, which is bypassing an actual hard conversation. It’s like not listening to somebody. I think you and I are at the point where we’re like, if you’re being silly and it feels like a bypass, I would just say that. But I think usually it can just bring you back to the love you have for that person. And I think it, most things are not that serious, like. Yeah, I wouldn’t do this if it was like a real serious thing. Right. But there are times when you’ll get mad about something and I’ll do an impersonation of you, which might, it might seem, me saying that might sound like, it feels patronizing or minimizing. Well, I think the thing that’s funny is I get mad and you kinda like it. Yeah, I kind of do. You don’t- Is that what it is? You’re not scared of me getting mad. That has, in our relationship, we’ve always had, like, we talk about stuff. I like your passion. We talk stuff out and we sometimes. But we get very real. We do. I’m not trying to not make it real. Anyway, so I don’t know if that, again, I don’t know if that was advice and if it was, I don’t know if it was good advice, so. Well, I mean, it’s knowing When your partner gets mad at you today, laugh at them or make them, no, make them laugh. That’s the advice. It diffuses the, sometimes it can diffuse. Laughter can diffuse the anger. If it backfires though, it’s bad. And you didn’t tell them to do it if it backfires. You gotta know when to pull the trigger. Okay. This is a, this question is kind of in the same vein, but the thing I’m interested in is the second part of the question. Okay. So we can give a fresh answer. This is from ValidityXP on Twitter. After being married for so many years, how do you keep the romance fresh? Or were there periods of zero romance? And how did you overcome those? Periods of zero romances. That’s good. Do you recall any of these? I do. Fleeting moments. I do. I mean, I think we’ve had, you know, this is, in any marriage, it’s, my mom would say it’s like the ocean, you know, there are waves and you kind of have to learn to ride the waves. And I love that because we have this idea. I mean, I don’t think anybody actually has this idea that it’s always perfect, but I think the longer you’re married, the more you see that there are, it’s kind of like seasons. And hopefully, it doesn’t last as long as an actual season does. But I do remember specifically, I think it was 2017. Okay. I spent a lot of that year mad at you. Mm. Maybe it was 2017 going into 2018. I’m trying to, it probably started in 2017. That was the year you were working a lot. Yeah, that was a rough year. And it, there was, you had everything you regularly do, “GMM”, all of that. But then you guys But the “GMM” was the “GMM 22”. It was when we were doing the five, or five episodes a day basically. And for a really long period of time, we were shooting multiple things every single day without pausing. But then on top of that You were writing a book, you were touring, you were, was it “Buddy System” also? There was a “Buddy System” season in there. It was, any of those one things would’ve been enough. It was too much. It was too much. And that was the year you started having the thing in your eye that World War II vets have where they start to lose, or they first saw it in World World II. Central serous retinopathy. Yeah. And you started kind of, your eyesight was being affected. Couldn’t see in the middle of one eye. Right. But I had another one. Uh-huh. And they said, the doctor was like, “Well, you need to reduce your stress.” Mm. And I said, “You’re going to therapy.” Yeah, you did. And so that had already begun, began that year. Uh-huh. But then you were on tour, it was Valentine’s Day and you were in London. And I was going through some hard transitions with the kids, going through some stuff. And I was eating, like, really bad pizza. Mm-hm. London, come on, y’all. And it was a personally really challenging time for me. And it was coming on the end of like, the year had been challenging before. And you sent me a huge bouquet of yellow roses. Thank you for your service. And now this is, I don’t know. I might be perceived as a bitch after this or like as a spoiled, I don’t know. Oh, come on, girl. I don’t know. You can’t do that. But at that point, we had been married, what, 18 years? 17 years? And one of the things that you should’ve known about me, and I think you did, was that, like, I’m not a huge flowers girl, but I’m especially not really a roses girl. Mm. Double whammy. Uh-huh. And it felt- But they were yellow. And yellow. I don’t know where yellow came from. Yellow was fine. Yellow’s not my favorite color. Yellow’s not, you know. Well, I’ll explain it in a little bit. Okay. So I, it really just gutted me. You did not feel seen. I did not feel seen. It wasn’t, like, some flowers might be some, roses, yellow roses might be somebody’s romantic dream. You know, for me it was like, I feel like I’ve been holding down the fort all year long with a semi-absent husband. You were doing the best you could, but it was a lot. And he is not here on Valentine’s Day. And not only is he not here, he’s sending me something that you could literally send to anyone on the street. Like, you don’t have to know anything about a person to send them these yellow roses. And in fact, it kind of means you haven’t been listening at all. And so. So it wasn’t a romantic gesture- I did not feel romanced by that gesture. In your perception. And I actually told you I was gonna talk about this because this was a hard thing. So I don’t want everybody to think Let’s act like I didn’t know. Okay, so. Oh, I’m so surprised you’re sharing this. I think you called me. I don’t know, but I basically said, “I will speak to you in a therapist’s office.” Ooh. And like. I had never heard anything like that. I will not speak to you until then. And you know, I am not a proponent of, like, game playing. If somebody’s out of town and just saying like, “I’m not gonna speak to you.” But it was kind of a crisis point for us. Maybe, maybe, we’ll probably have more. But that, I feel like when I look back in our marriage, that was a really big point because there was a way that we had both been doing things, me included. I mean, I am a pretty emotionally needy person and I think I was looking to be, have a lot of my needs met in you. And while that’s normal, wanting your spouse to meet emotional needs, I think I wasn’t doing the personal work. At least, I hadn’t been for some years. At that point, I had started therapy, and had started- You had been in for a couple years. Figuring out- I was a newbie. Trying to figure out what my own stuff was. Well, and I, one of the things too, and this is looking back on that time, sometimes when you have been, I mean, first of all, we both have been changing and growing over the course of our entire lives, right? It wasn’t until, it wasn’t like, oh, and it, up until we got into therapy, like, there was no personal growth at all. Right. But I think that sometimes when it comes to therapy or anything that is beneficial for someone’s personal growth, you kind of lose perspective. They’re like, I don’t know what’s, I don’t know what’s changing about me. I can’t perceive the change. But when you tell this story, it definitely feels like you’re talking about a different person, right? So first of all, to further contextualize it in your defense, so people don’t develop this idea that it was like, oh, I got the wrong gift. And then you said, “I’ll only talk to you in a therapist’s office.” Which if you just take a surface level analysis of this, that might be what you walk away with. But the reality was is that it was a very difficult time. I was leaving you to deal with a lot of things on your own as it relates to our family. There wasn’t a lot of connection. I knew already that you were having a difficult time. I was having a difficult time with being so busy. And then I knew I was gonna be, you know, across the country on Valentine’s Day. So I had plenty of time to prepare. And I think that you had set up an expectation, well, this is an opportunity, again, some people are like, I don’t believe in, you know, card company created holidays or whatever. But it was an opportunity to express my love to you, but moreso specifically to show you that I saw you and appreciated you. Yep. And then I did this thing that did not communicate that. So now just very briefly in my defense, just give you a little bit of what I was thinking. So I knew you didn’t really, really like flowers. I didn’t know that, the thing I knew you really didn’t like was potted plants because I made that mistake really early in our marriage with getting you a very unromantic potted plant. Which now I would probably prefer a potted plants to flowers. You would now. But I knew you didn’t really like flowers a whole lot. And I knew you didn’t really like roses that much. But when I went to the website for this place. Yeah ’cause it was definitely a website. You did not go in person anywhere. Anyway, go ahead. Right there at the top of the website, there was this incredibly impressive, and it wasn’t that it was a bouquet of roses, it was that they had somehow put the roses into a sphere, this spherical shape. Have you seen this thing? It’s quite phenomenal. It’s not a bouquet, it’s like there’s a thing on the bottom. And then they’ve made the roses into a, and it looked bigger on the website than apparently it was. No, it was big. It was really, it was a big- It’s a big sphere. It was a big sphere of something that I did not like. Right, right, right. No, but I’m just telling you. I’m sure it was expensive too. I’m gonna, I apologize and I will get back to it, but I’m just telling you, I wasn’t a complete ding bat. I was sort of like, this thing is very impressive and I think you have to use roses to make this thing. And so I got to the place where I was focusing on the wrong thing and I quit seeing it as a bouquet of roses and saw it as a flower sphere that was very impressive to me personally. Which I know what I’m getting you for Valentine’s Day this year. And I thought that you would like this rose basketball and that you would be like, that’s pretty impressive. ‘Cause I love basketball. And it was, like, one of the more expensive things there. Yes. So I was like, well, this is, and then the reason I got yellow is because I was like, well, getting her the red ones, I know she doesn’t even really like roses, but most roses are red, but if I get her yellow roses, maybe they’ll pass as something else in this sphere. It was, I’m not, I’m just telling you I shouldn’t have done it, but- I mean, there are- There was a convoluted thought process that led to it. There are much worse things. I think it was emblematic of where our relationship was at that that point. Yeah, there’s a million different things I could’ve done. Yes. And also, there’s a million different things I could’ve done leading up to it to show my care. So anyway, what I ended up doing was, like, we did not talk on the phone for maybe three days while I was overseas. Which was highly unusual for us to not touch base every single day if I’m traveling, you know. We have our little check-in. And then I was, like, kind of scrambling ’cause I was like, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? I can’t make her laugh from over here. You know, so I ended up finding a cool shirt. You did, you went to a vintage store and got me a shirt that I loved and still have. I mean, the shirt didn’t fix it. It wasn’t the shirt that fixed it. That was the We ended up having a session. A few, I think, or at least one. Yeah. That was actually, we had some breakthroughs. And I think one of the breakthroughs was we were both already having individual breakthroughs. And that was one of the things that my therapist had said early on when I talked about some of our marital, the things that we struggled with was that he felt like it would be more beneficial in the beginning for us to work on our own individual issues and that that would spill over into the marriage. And I kind of didn’t believe him. That seemed crazy to me. And it was true. And I think the benefit for me was that, for both of us was that we were both working on things individually. I think it would have to be really hard to be in a relationship where, you know, only one party was willing to do the work. ‘Cause it’s hard. And there are many days where I say like, I feel like I’ve grown enough. I don’t feel like I need to grow anymore. I’m tired. I just wanna get in bed. I don’t wanna face the stuff inside of myself that is gross or is scary or. But anyway, having somebody who is also doing the work and looking at the things that, things that are challenging or the things that are hard. And I mean, you did that. Like, I think one of the big epiphanies that you had during that time is we had always had this idea that when hard things were happening in our, you know, in our little family or with me, that somehow work also happened to be really busy. And that was just weird how that happened. It always synced up like that. And then I think what you saw is because work is something you’re really good at and you know how to do, you would actually maybe retreat into work instead of face the things that were hard in our relationship. Because kind of like what we talked about earlier, maybe the emotional plain is one that can be a little more challenging for you. I don’t think that’s true anymore. Like, I really, when you say you feel like that was a different person, I kind of feel that way too. Mm. Because I think the way that you have, in the past few years, done so much work to be able to be present emotionally and to be vulnerable, even though that’s a hard word for you to say. I don’t say it. The V word. Vulnerable. Did I say it wrong? It is hard to imagine that specific scenario unfolding for a number of reasons. I mean, first of all, I just know I’m never gonna get you a rose basketball again. Like, specifically, I’ll never do that again. But also, I think that, well, practically speaking, Link and I have gotten better about not overcommitting to things. Yeah. We still work very hard, but it’s not just a maddening amount of things all at once. And it was, there was a couple of years there, 2017 might be the pinnacle- Yeah. Of just the number of things that converged. Well, and I think I’ve done work around, like, I do think gift giving is a big thing for me. And because I really like to give gifts and I think because our relationship felt challenging in other ways, I was putting all of this expectation around whatever gift you gave me, that that would somehow be a way that you saw me. And like, giving gifts is not easy for everybody. And you know, some people don’t care. You don’t really care about gift giving. And so I think as we’ve worked on the other parts of our relationship and they’re more secure, I also am not needing the gift that you give me at a holiday to be It’s not a test. It’s not a, yeah. It’s not a test that I’m supposed to pass or whatever. And it wasn’t then either. But yeah. And I think that we’re just a lot more on the same page right now. And a lot of it has to do with the fact that it does have to do with the fact that we’re in therapy. And so, and then we talk to each other about the things that, oh, what did you, what’d you talk about in therapy today? And we kind of, we have a different kind of connection. Our connection is stronger. And I kind of feel like I know where you’re at in any given time moreso than I did six years ago- Yeah. For a number of reasons. But enough about that. Let’s talk about my music career. One question and because in very rewarding ways, my little venture into James and the Shame has been able to involve you and been a way that we’ve been able to work together in a way that we always kind of wanted to but never had worked together. MythicalMissB says, what is your, this is for you, what is your favorite James and the Shame track from Human “Overboard”? And will we get to hear you on the new EP? When does this come out? What day does this come out, Jamie? On 10/9. Okay. Okay. So yeah. So yeah, so at the end of this week. Okay, yeah. All right. So we get to talk a little bit about something here. Or you do. Well, my favorite track is the last song on “Human Overboard”. It’s not the one that’s about you- I do love- That you sing in? I do love that. But that seems kind of like egomaniacal if I say that. And I also love the one about our kids. But the last song. That you also sing on. Yes. Letters. “Old Letters”. “Old Letters”. I cry sometimes when I listen to that song. Hmm. Because I think it just really encompasses the person you were and the person you are and how they’re very much the same person and not the same person at all. Mm. And I think, you know, you kind of went through that little bit of an angry atheist phase early on. Mm-hm. And I think anytime you go through any kind of spiritual or major, like, paradigm shift, often you do kind of go, people go through an angry phase. And I don’t think all atheists are angry. So I’m not, this is not saying if you’re an atheist, you’re angry. I do not believe that. But I think yours was specifically stemming from just some of the pain that you were dealing with. And I think as you’ve gotten further from that, I think for both of us, there is an openness, more of a spiritual openness and more of a peace and less of having a view on things that is a reaction to an old view and more of a like, what, where am I right now? As opposed to, you know, what am I reacting against because of where I was? And I think “Old Letters”, it ends with that openness. Mm-hm. And sometimes that makes me cry. Hmm. Well, thank you for saying that. And we will hear you- Yes. On the new EP. The song that comes out, if you’re listening to this on the week of October 9th, I think it’s the 13th, is that right? Is that what I said? It comes out on the 13th. Is a song all about you. You don’t sing on that one. Actually, I did a six song EP and two of the songs are about you, so- That’s a pretty good percentage. It’s probably a little excessive. I’ll take it. I’ll take it. It’s kind of excessive. 33.33333% of my songs on this album about you. We had a seventh song that we were singing together that we just never quite cracked. And time ran out. That will probably be on something in the future. But the second song that would just be a part of the EP is about you and you do sing on it and you sound so good. But it’s funny because the song, I talked about this at some point on a previous Ear Biscuit when I was talking about the songwriting process and how sometimes things come, sometimes songs come very, very quickly, almost fully formed. And the song, “The One I Love to Find” that comes out Friday was based on an experience that we had together of me kind of finding you and saying that you’re the one I always love to find. And then realizing as I said it, oh, that’s a good country song. I think I actually said that. I think I told you that sounds like a song. You said it. Okay. All right. Well, you made it seem like it was my thoughts. I’ll take credit. And then we got, I got back home and the song, like, came to me, like, fully formed. Like, basically melody and first verse and chorus, like, in the shower. And it was like, okay, I’m just singing this song. And then got out of the shower, clothed myself, and wrote the song. And so that one’s for you, it’s about you. But I wanted it to be very like, this is just my thought about you given to you, so I’m not gonna ask you to sing on it. It just had a purity to it. That’s really sweet. But I’ve enjoyed working with you in that capacity. And also us, like, you know, getting to perform together like we did at Mythicon. Yeah. No, it’s been a nice, it’s been a big, nice and big thing, that’s very descriptive, a nice and big thing for me to, I don’t know, I’ve had to deal with a lot of, like, my performance anxiety. You know, I was a music major and performed as a kid a lot and was a little theater kid. And then, as an adult, kind of retreated and didn’t do a lot of that. And so it’s been, I think, healing for me to revisit that in a different way, in a different space, and figure out how I relate to that part of myself. Mm. Well, I’ve had a lot of fun with you. I had fun with you. Thank you for asking me and singing about me. Thank you for saying yes. Okay, let’s do another Twitter question. I’m turning, this is from Sam. I’m turning 40 in February and it’s freaking me out. Not so much the getting old part, but the running out of time for things part. I feel like my church background made me miss a lot of things. So I guess my question is, what advice do you have for what ifs of turning 40? Hey, Sam. I think I met Sam at Mythicon. Okay. I love this question ’cause when I turned 40, I had a mini existential crisis for sure. It was 2020. You know, the last year we had spent in the house with COVID. Everybody was in the house for most of that year, not us specifically. But I just, it was like I could not accept that I was gonna be 40. This thing that had always seemed so far away was upon me and I didn’t know how to deal with it. Well, and when we were growing up, Link and I were talking about this the other day, when our parents or our parents’ friends turned 40, they would do the Lordy, Lordy- Right. Diane’s turning 40 party. Which had the over the hill cake. Everything, the death. Everything is is black. Yes. The funeral. Right. Totally. It’s like, I mean, listen, we were in the South in, like, the ’80s, so people would be dropping left and right in their 40s. That’s horrible. But I mean, that doesn’t happen anymore. Well, that happens. That does still happen. But I do think that- But 40’s not old anymore. 40 is not old. And I do think that, like, we have a different, I don’t know, we think of adulthood and of aging differently than we used to. But I do think that there is a lot to be said for grieving what could’ve been. And that can be in any, in tons of, there’s tons of examples of this. Whether it’s, like, a job that you maybe could’ve had that you didn’t, or a relationship, or children, or a house that you love that you missed out on or whatever. And I think that process for me, because I definitely relate to that, you know, I mean, I took a very specific path based on the culture that I was in and what I thought I had always wanted. You know, I was a homeschool mom. I was moved across the country to support my husband’s career. Like, it was a very others focused first part of my life. And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. Like, I think that’s beautiful. And I think it, there comes a point where you’re like, man, do I know myself? Did I miss out on me? What are the things I could’ve been doing that I didn’t do? And so I think. Well, because in the culture that we come from, a woman deciding to pursue some of those things that are her interests, pursue her dreams, follow her curiosity, those things are deemed selfish. Well, and I don’t think that’s Whereas a lot of times, those are the things that are It can be. I’m just saying. Right. I don’t think it’s true across the board. Nobody gets mad at the man for following his curiosity. Exactly. Right. And so I had to, I think allowing yourself that time to grieve, like, it’s one of those things that there’s no way around it. You just have to go through it. And so really giving yourself the time and the space to be like, man, this is hard. I am sad. I don’t know what that life was that could have been. Like, the country song, “What Might Have Been”. I don’t even like country music. Right. Except for James and the Shame. But the flip side of that is, you know, you don’t know what hard and tough and bad things happened that you, could’ve happened that you missed out on too. So that works, that goes both ways. And then the other thing I like to think about is that I’m as young as I’ll ever be from here on out. And you know, that great poet, SZA, says, “Half of us chasing the Fountain of Youth and it’s in the present now.” And like, I’m young, I’m 42. A baby. And I’m a little baby. And when I am 90, this was a, I was listening to a podcast recently and they were giving tricks, it’s Hidden Brain. They were giving tricks for savoring, how you savor the present and how we make our life last longer. And how we motivate ourselves to do things that sometimes we don’t wanna do. And one way is to play a trick, a time trick on our mind. And to pretend that, like, we are our 90 year old self. My 90 year old self gets the chance to come back and sit at this table with you- I use this trick. Right now. Yeah, I’ve used it before too, but it was very confirming to hear it in this podcast. But like, how if 90 year old Jessie was in this body right now, what would, I would think I’m young and vibrant and I would think I had my whole life ahead of me. Right. And so moving forward, I just wanna savor the moment and be excited about the possibilities. That is a great answer. There’s very little to add. Think about the what now, not the what ifs. How about another voicemail? I’m gonna make you stick around for a little bit because- Okay. We don’t get this opportunity very often to talk to you, so. Hey, Rhett and Jessie, my name is Sandra from Jersey. I love “GMM” and Ear Biscuits. Okay. So I was raised in a very religious household. I went to 12 years of Catholic schools, followed by four years at Catholic college. Should be noted around 10th grade, I personally stopped being religious, although I was still in that lifestyle until I graduated college. My question for you guys is how do you navigate family members? I honestly, I get so angry sometimes and I just wanna go into it with them. But they’re not listening and I’m just making myself sick with anger or what have you. I wanna respect their beliefs, but they refuse to respect mine. But I still wanna be the bigger person and not let it get to me. So is there any advice that you would give me? Cool. Thank you. Mm. You want me to go or do you wanna go? Why don’t you? I like listening to you talk. I think I would broaden this question to just include talking to anybody that we disagree with or that is coming from a different place than us. It doesn’t have to be family. It could be friends, it could be neighbors, obviously anyone that has a different perspective. And especially now, I mean, we are very, very polarized in this country. And it’s something I think about a lot and I fail at a lot, is talking to people who see the world differently than I do. And you know, I talk about it in therapy a lot. I like to think of myself as, like, passionate and fiery. And my therapist has used words like combative and I don’t know that he said aggressive, but similar words. At times. At times. And so it’s been interesting for me to be able to kind of step outside of myself and see that part of me. ‘Cause I always kind of thought I was, like, this very, this rule follower who is very submissive. And that is in me. And then this whole other person is in me too, who’s, like, down to debate. And you know, when I was an evangelical, that looked a very specific way. And I think I have kind of just transferred some of that passion now to the other side. And so I’ve been taking that apart a lot in my own work and questioning why I do that. And why does it, sometimes do I come away from those conversations. I had a conversation last week with a guy, not a family member, but a guy that, you know, we disagreed on some pretty big things and I can often come away from those conversations feeling like they were pointless or they actually did more harm than good. And while, sure, it’s great to stand up for what you believe in. And I think people have to, you know, it’s really important to me to stand up for marginalized people or for injustice. But there is a way to do that, that, as my mom would say, she uses this phrase, and I love it, takes a chunk out of you. Sometimes we get into these debates with people and you walk away feeling like- Wounded. Wounded. And so one thing I’m working with, I mean, the biggest, my biggest, the biggest thing I would say about this is like, I’m the problem. And when I’m in these debates, they’re like signs pointing me back to the stuff that I have to work on in myself. If I’m triggered by something somebody says, and things are triggering, people say triggering things. But I think the more grounded and healthy of a place I am, the more I’m able to, like, actually listen and actually be curious and see that person as the way that I wanna be seen. I don’t wanna be seen as a set of ideologies and beliefs. Like, I wanna be seen as a full person with hopes and dreams and a history and wounds, and you know, who’s trying to grow, but who’s fucking it up a lot. But I want there to be grace for me as a person who is also able to change. And I hope I keep changing. I hope I keep growing. I hope I don’t get so stuck in any of my ways that I can’t see myself and others for who they really are. So I think for me, when I have those conversations, I’m trying to get better at really being curious and seeing whoever I’m speaking to as a full three dimensional, four dimensional person- Yeah, I don’t know how many dimensions we’re in. Who is worthy of, of love and respect and deserves to be heard. Well said, and I think that, you know, for me and you obviously, it’s not like we are, it’s not the same as if you are a marginalized person, if like, if you’re a queer person and you’re having a debate with your family trying to legitimize your own existence- Yes. Or a relationship you’re in- Right. Your identity, that’s a very personal thing, right? But for most of the conversations, especially a conversation, like, if I’m having a conversation with somebody, I don’t check any of the marginalized boxes, right? Right. I don’t know if long hair and beard is one of them, but- It’s not. I don’t think it is. It is not. Maybe really tall. No, that is not Even that. That’s an asset. Okay, all right. So I don’t check any of the marginalized boxes. Please Lord. So any debate that I get into about any of these hot button issues that everyone wants to talk about, the thing that I’m thinking in the moment is like, you think me and you’re gonna solve, like you and me, whoever you might be, you think we’re going to solve this issue right now? And actually, do you think that that’s what this conversation is about? Because most of the time, it feels like an argument is about two people trying to justify their own beliefs, right? They’re not really interested in changing their mind. And so, and usually there’s a fear behind a very passionate belief. It’s like, what do you, like, what are you really, what are you actually scared of that drives the passion about this particular thing? I mean, I think you have to be careful and it’s a very fine line to walk between using, like, that as an excuse to not engage an issue, and this is what you’re saying. You know, that we’re not gonna solve it. But I think there’s some humility in that. That is what you’re getting at. That is, like, coming to any of these issues, realizing that we aren’t gonna solve it. Don’t get me wrong, this doesn’t keep me from debating these issues. Right. I can’t help it if somebody brings something up. But I try to see it in a different way and be like, okay, well, I actually think it would be more fruitful to make a connection. To make a connection, right? Because if we, if I can say, let’s not talk about this exact thing right now, can I ask you a personal question? Can I ask you about something that’s going on in your life? Because if our relationship ends up boiling down to our difference in opinion on this thing, then that becomes the subject of most of our interactions. That’s not a relationship. So we need to have a relationship so we can develop mutual love and respect so that then we can maybe have a fruitful discussion about something that is actually, like, seeking to understand the other person, not just trying to go in into the defensive. Yeah. And again, I say in this, I say this as someone who’s not, I’m not trying, I’m not defending, I’m not being oppressed. Right. I’m not defending anything. Right. And I will say when I get into these debates, my M.O. is going to be to try to identify where the power imbalance lies and where the marginalized person is in this situation and root for them. That typically, you end up being right most of the time, I think, if that’s the way you follow these things, but. Well, I think too, you know, as we talk about this in therapy, the energy is, it’s such a, like, whatever, woo idea, but yet continues to be true in my life. My sister and I always talk about how energy doesn’t lie. And you know, when the energy behind me debating someone to be right, which I have done much of my life and continue to do, and I’m actively working on not doing it that way and failing, I’m working on it and failing. But the energy behind that is very different from the energy behind seeking to understand. The energy behind seeing somebody as a project whose mind you have to change is very different from, like, seeing somebody as this full person who’s worthy of love, even if you disagree. And so I do think when you look at the people who have made the most strides in justice arenas, you know, or the people who are doing these incredible, people who are serving people, often they are the most grounded people because they know how to, how much energy to give and when to preserve their energy. And so that’s something I’m just, I’m thinking about more and failing at. And I think it’s a great thing for us to talk about because it’s tough. Well, I’ve seen you exercise this in real time and I am, I think you’re doing an incredible job. Let’s do one more kind of serious one and then one really fun one. Like, we’re taking photos and we wanna do a fun one to end on so everybody goes home feeling good about themselves. But I never feel good about myself for those fun pictures. I always am like, I don’t know what to do. Oh, okay. Well, then you’re gonna feel good about this one. Okay. Okay, so this one’s from Kyle. What was the exponential rise in popularity for “GMM” and Mythical like for Jessie? Were there any sudden life changes due to the fame and what was adapting to that new lifestyle like? Interesting. Jessie? I don’t think there were any sudden, I mean, I guess the most sudden change would be moving to LA all those years ago. That’s when it all fell apart. But- That’s when we lost our way. I do think something that I’ve had, have had to learn how to work with and am continuing to learn how to work with, is dealing with criticism. Not for myself, but mostly, like, for you and for Link. You know, there is, I think we both would say this is like, I feel all the time so blessed, so grateful, so thankful and lucky and just happy to be able to be on this ride with you, to walk alongside you as they used to say, to do life with you. What other bad analogies can I, metaphors can, anyway. Get on the horse with me. Yeah. But I think it’s one thing that is challenging is seeing everything that happens behind the scenes and then seeing somebody log on and criticize a decision that you spent so much blood, sweat, and tears trying to, you know, coming to, or and this isn’t, I’m not talking about, like, moral failings. I mean, that’s not, not that your deconstruction was a moral failing. It was the ultimate moral failing. What are you talking about, Jessie? That was challenging in its own way. And that’s kind of even separate from this. Maybe connected, but you know, it’s like, you change a logo or you change whatever. Oh, nobody said anything about that. And I, you know, it’s like you’re often eating and sleeping and breathing these things. Maybe not for the logo change. I don’t know, maybe that was a bad example. But you have put so much thought and energy and there’s so many, even other people and you know, there’s so many different elements that come into the making of some of these decisions. And as your wife, and as somebody who loves you and has a lot of respect for you, it’s just really, really hard to see somebody say that you, to assign negative motivations to those things. And I think, like, that’s such a small thing to have to deal with, but it’s hard because often, as your wife, I do wanna jump in and say something. Don’t. And I don’t. Don’t get into the fray, Jessie. I do not, and I’m pretty good at not. But I think that continues to be something, like, I wanna defend you. Well, I appreciate that. I wanna defend you. And you letting me vent to you when I get home and we do our little hug and kiss and then I immediately start wringing my hands. It’s funny because I was thinking about this exact thing in relation to, you know, it’s football season right now. I watch football, I watch college football and Did you see Taylor Swift? Well, that was NFL. Okay? Oh. Travis plays for an NFL team. Well, yeah, but you said. And yes, he’s wonderful. You said you watched football. I’m not much of an NFL fan, but yeah, I’m all about the, what is that couple name called now? I don’t know. Do they have a couple name? ‘Cause his name is Travis and her name is Taylor. I don’t, yeah, I don’t think it’s been decided as of this recording. Okay. But yeah, this will be old news by the time this comes out. They’re called something very specific or Oh no, we’re all gonna be invested. Or they may be broken up. They may be broken up. We don’t know. I’m super invested. This is NFL Taylor’s Version. I have never cared about the NFL until now. Ever. I can’t, I mean. Yeah, right. It’s probably all engineered by them. Not to burst your bubble, but this is probably, the commissioner is behind this. No, she having was fun. Did you see her? She was having fun. She was eating her little chicken strip with the Seemingly Ranch. And I loved it. I don’t know what you’re talking about. But back to college football, the real deal. You know, I follow NC State Football because I went to NC State and I’m a big Wolf Pack fan. Another word I’m not great at saying. Unfortunately, that’s our mascot. And you know, like, people just criticize the coach, you know, after, even after, like, he wins a game. The way that he goes about it. And then the conversation gets so toxic. And it’s funny because I’m not coaching a college football team. You’re not? And it’s not like once a week, we either win or lose. That sucks. You know, that sucks. Like, I have a content stream and it’s like very subjective and it’s just like, is it gonna get views and we’re gonna make other decisions like logo changes or events or changes to services or all the, you know, hundreds of decisions that we make in a year about specific things that people enjoy. But the thing that I always say is, and I actually think this applies to, you know, it’s funny to get back into the polarization, political polarization in our country, since we haven’t talked about that enough. There tends to be this idea that people on the right are patriotic and people on the left are not patriotic. But actually, like, when you are a fan of a team, you tend to be pretty damn critical of the things that that team does because you love that team. You are invested in that team. Right. And so I tend to take the investment that people have in what we’re doing and the things that we’ve built. Even when it gets critical, I tend to say, you know what, I’m gonna choose to see this person’s concern about this particular thing that we have done, I’m gonna see that in the light of them actually really, really caring about the things that we do. And it’s a privilege to have anybody even give a damn. Well, and that’s healthy. That’s a healthy way to look. I’m not as healthy as you. Well, but I will say the thing that, the part that really gets in my girdle is Where’s your girdle? It’s just, it’s a figurative girdle that I wear at times that keeps my tummy in so I don’t have to think about holding it in. I don’t think that’s the expression. It gets your goat. I just invented a new one. I like it. Okay. And is when they assign intention. Right. Negative intention. Right. Oh, they’re doing this because flagrant assumption about our character or the way that we see- Right. Our fans or whatever, that’s the part that is upsetting. It’s like, well, okay, I’m not gonna get into it. I can tell you all the reasons that we made this decision, but I like the fact that you care. I don’t like the fact that you assume why we made this decision and then begin spreading this idea. But I can live with it. It comes with the territory. But I really appreciate the fact that you care because I do think, you know, like you said, we are hashtag blessed. Is that still a thing? No. I’m bringing that back too. It really gets in my girdle that we don’t use hashtag blessed anymore. And we have, all of our needs are met and most of our wants are met. It’s like, got nothing to complain about. But that doesn’t mean that there aren’t difficult things that I face or you face that you still want somebody to commiserate with, you know? And I appreciate you- I’m a good co-commiserator. Being there for that because again, you’ll “Oh, tell me more. No.” I really like that about you. Pretty sure I don’t sound like that. You don’t do that to me as much as you do it to your friends. But I’m not asking you to, I’m not asking you to exaggerate your empathy for me. You do it just right. Do you wanna end on a fun one? Sure. Okay, this is from Fast Acting Glue. Not a brand, not a sponsor, just a Twitter handle. If you had to eat a stick- Hmm. And this is not a sexual joke. I didn’t do this to set up a sexual joke, okay? If you had to eat a stick, would you microwave slash steam it or eat it raw? Hmm. I would, we just got those, not a sponsor, but we got those, what are those pans? Anyday. Is that what they’re called? Anyday? Anyday. It’s David Chang, right? Yeah, they were on TikTok and somewhere else and they’re the, you can, these microwavable containers. It’s a glass container that looks like Tupperware, but it’s glass and it’s With tops that look like they have some aluminum, but you can And they can release, they release a little steam at certain pressures so they don’t pop off. And you can cook anything in these things. You can. It’s crazy. They should be a sponsor because you can turn your, and I think it is David Chang, I think I’m right about that, right? Yeah. ‘Cause he was doing this on TikTok where he’s using these glass things to make his family food. And he’s, like, putting, like, salmon in the microwave. Salmon, you can cook salmon in them. Like, are you sure you can do that? You can. We have. We have. It’s delicious. And yeah, I would put a stick in that with a little, like, Lawry’s seasoning salt. Oh yeah. Back to the stick. I forgot that’s what this is about. Yeah, we’re talking about the stick. We gotta put a wet stick in there. Well, little twig boy should be all about microwaving some wet sticks. Right. Well, again, I didn’t think that this was gonna get sexual, but the little twig boy, the little twig boy is not expecting the forest queen to eat his stick. Like, that’s not. Are we? Lord. No, I’m just saying. Are we- That’s not. I wasn’t talking about that. I’m not. Are we gonna dress up as little twig boy and forest queen for No, no, I’m saying he is expecting that, but that’s not what this is about. He doesn’t have to expect it. We don’t even have to make it about that. Can we go to recs now? I have some recs. Oh, I thought you meant the hospital where our kids were born. Rex Hospital. That would be a long trip. Okay, yeah. So do you wanna do that? Like, if we talk about it now, we’re gonna have to do it, dress up as the forest queen and the little twig boy as our Halloween costume? I don’t know what else we were gonna dress up as. So I think it’s a great, I love when people give me Halloween ideas, costume ideas. It’s such an inside joke though, like, people. But that’s what makes it fun. We’ll never make it into People Magazine with that. We won’t be next to Heidi in her worm costume. I don’t think that’s what’s keeping us from making it. No. Okay, I don’t know what the, I can imagine what the forest queen would look like. I’ve got some ideas. The little twig boy. Little twig boy needs some, like, lederhosen. But the little twig boy, remember, is the big bad wolf, but it’s just the big bad wolf. Well, you know. It’s just the twig boy pretending to be the big bad wolf. Our first Halloween together- Was a big bad wolf. You dressed up as- Grandma. The big bad wolf dressed up as grandma. It was a big bad wolf in a dress. It’s full circle. And I was Little Red Riding Hood. Yeah, it’s pretty close. So. We can dig those up. Mm-hm. But back to eating the stick. I think what I would do, I don’t wanna make this not fun anymore, but I would grind it down- Hmm. Into sawdust. Hmm. And I would slowly insert it into soup over the course of a month. Soup was not an option. I don’t, he didn’t say anything about soup or she. No, technically I would eat it raw, but it would be used as a thickener in soup and it would go unnoticed. I would enjoy fiber. I think you’re cheating. I mean, I did add some Lawry’s seasoning salt, but I don’t think that that’s cheating. I think soup, putting it in soup. Well, I would put it in a cheesecake then. Okay. Well, you can’t just put a stick in a cheesecake. You gotta make it into dust. I would make it sawdust. Jessie, it has been so fun having you here at the Round Table of Dim Lighting. Thanks for having me. Can I sign it? Do I get to sign it? Well, we don’t really do that anymore, but yes. Okay. We’re breaking all kinds of traditions. We don’t really have guests anymore, but yeah, you’ve never signed this table, so we need to make that happen. But I would like to, you said you had two recs. Oh, I do. I have two recs. We’ve already rec’d Anyday, Tupperware stuff. Our dear friend, Jacob, actually rec’d this book to me. And it is called “Your Brain on Art”. It’s by Susan Magsamen and Ivy Ross. Ivy? Ivy Ross, yes. Ivy Ross. And it’s exploring what art does to our brain and how necessary it is. It’s bad for it, isn’t it? I knew it was bad for it. Dang it. It is fascinating. And there’s this whole new field of study called Neuro Art. Neuro Art, I believe. And it’s basically the study of what art, what being in nature, even doodling, what all of these things do to our brain. And it’s amazing and confirming and exciting. Mm. “Your Brain on Art”. Is that your only rec or do you? No, I have, well, I have a lot. We could do recs forever, but. Okay, well, you need to give these to me so I can do them next time. I just finished a podcast called Girlfriends and it is, I’m not, I don’t listen to a lot of true crime. I like cult podcasts. I like scam podcasts. 42 year old lady talking about a true crime podcast. This is- Uh-uh. This is such a cool podcast. It’s about a woman who went missing in New York in the ’80s and all of these incredible women who came together to convict her plastic surgeon husband. But it deals with like- It’s always the plastic surgeon. Domestic violence. And it’s a really beautiful tribute to women who have been murdered or been abused through domestic violence. But it’s also weirdly an amazing look into these women’s lives and there is a lot of laughter and the music is incredible. In fact, the music was so good that was composed for this podcast that I downloaded the music on Spotify. But anyway, I just, I love it. I think everybody should listen to it. The Girlfriends. Yep. And speaking of listening to music, I will take this opportunity to plug the song that’s coming out this Friday, the second single off of the upcoming James and the Shame EP. This one’s all about you. And if things go according to plan, which at the time of recording, none of this is finalized. So this is a real risky thing to throw out there. Ideally, the physical album, the vinyl, the CD, and the cassette, along with some special merch for this EP will all be available for pre-order. I’m trying to get a little bit more of a headstart than I did last year ’cause I waited until the album had come out and, like, months passed and then I, and so I would like it to coincide a little bit more. So you can pre-order, having not even heard all of the songs, you can pre-order the album. And I’m also trying to make it where you can, I’m promising a lot here. You got a lot going on. I’m trying to make it where you get a digital download of the songs when you buy it, but it won’t come out until release day. So just because people asked for that last time. Anyway, I’m just taking this opportunity to promote it ’cause it’s a song about you that I’m very, very, very happy with. You’re using me. I get it. And I went out into the wilderness and I recorded myself singing a song about you. And I actually, for this one, I think I did a pretty good job. I actually sang it good. So I’m gonna actually show that instead of just showing all the fails. This was fun. This was fun. Remember, if you would like to make a comment, ask a question, you can do that by calling our line. We have a line. 1-888-EARPOD1. You can only say nice things though. That’s right. That’s how that line works. I mean, I think most of the things are nice, but that is not a requirement. But it is, if you’re gonna I think it should be a requirement. Jessie’s making that a requirement. Yes. That’s right. Only say nice things. Ask nice questions. Only sweet things. And keep the conversation online with hashtag Ear Biscuits. We’d like to know, even though Twitter is slowly dying, we do like you to still have conversations about Ear Biscuits in places like that. Hashtag Ear Biscuits. Hey, Rhett and Link. This is me and my, me, John and my wife. Kimmy. We went on vacation to North Carolina, Topsail Island, and we decided to make a pass through Buies Creek. You know, for you. Anywho, hope you guys are doing awesome and I love you guys. I love what you’re doing. Awesome. Bye. To watch more Ear Biscuits, click on the playlist on the right. To watch the previous episode of Ear Biscuits, click on the playlist to the left. And don’t forget to click on the circular icon to subscribe. If you prefer to listen to this podcast, it’s available on all your favorite podcast platforms. Thanks for being your Mythical best.