Channel: Mythical Kitchen
YouTube Video ID: KR_e1IY3S4k
Episode Post Date: March 17, 2026
Transcript
I'm Hilary Duff and this is my last meal. >> [bell] [music] >> Every person has exactly two things in common. We all got to eat and we're all going to die. Today's guest is actor, author, entrepreneur and multi-platinum recording artist whose new album Luck or Something is out now. You [music] can catch her in a city near you on tour and most importantly, she's the inventor of the gross food game in her own kitchen. Hilary Duff, welcome to the show. I really appreciate that title that I am the inventor of this game. >> Can you describe to me the intricacies of the gross food game? Is this competitive? Are there winners and losers? There's one If you spit that out, you are a loser. You have not won. Yeah, so you and somebody else generally your your son Luca, you design the grossest bite of food possible in the fridge and then feed it to each other and it's all about who can keep it down. Is there any artistry to it or you're just going for sheer grossness? You're going for absolute sheer grossness. You want the other person [music] to be on the floor. Usually it's like capers with peanut butter and like a healthy sprinkling of some kind of herb or spice like a dried herb or spice. We also like go for texture so like something wiggly could go on top. >> I'm seeing the wheels turn. >> You really need the full fridge in front of you so you can just, you know, suss out your options. You know we're setting this up for by the end of this meal, we're going to rummage through that fridge and we're going to play the gross food game. >> it. As long as you feed me a martini, I'll do it. >> [laughter] >> That's a deal. That's a deal. But had you thought about your last meal before this moment or was this kind of a fresh exercise for you? Well, isn't it like something that people say like if you eat something really good at a restaurant, you're like, "This might be my last meal." Right? This is the best thing I've ever had. It goes on the hypothetical list. >> It happens a lot. >> Were any of the choices surprising to you? Like you didn't know that food meant that much but then here it is in front of you. I would say that maybe like the corn agnolotti from Giorgio Baldi. It's not something that I eat so much anymore but it was like the dish of my like 20s. Just that like specific 10 years of my life was like I wanted that every weekend. Are there very specific memories associated with it? Well, I'll tell you when we eat it but speaking of which, you ready to eat? I'm ready. >> [bell] >> All right, Hilary, for the first course of your final meal, we have the martini, the ruffles with caviar and creme fraiche and then we have the off mayo farm egg. Yes. The Have I been saying this wrong all along? Is it off? Okay, yeah, it's definitely off. You play tennis. Yeah. The score zero >> Yeah. is Oh, is the love? Uh-huh. >> Love is actually >> for me to respond to that? >> Yeah, a little bit. Okay, no, no, run it back, run it back. Okay. Okay, when you're really bad at tennis, so often you are stuck at zero which in tennis is called love. Love is actually l'oeuf cuz tennis is a French game [music] but they Americanized it or or Anglicized it to love. So yeah, this is the the off mayonnaise >> [music] >> is what it would be called in French and now I've outed myself as being tremendously pretentious. I'm so into this. You just taught me so much. >> Where where do we start? I feel like we got to start with this the horrifyingly dirty martini. >> Yeah. Does [laughter] this disgust you? It doesn't disgust me but it is a very particular lens [music] to view a drink through. That was a lot of judgement. I love it. I love [clears throat] it, too. I love it, too. I love that it bridges the gap between salad dressing and cocktail. >> [laughter] >> The blue cheese. I think that someone's martini preferences are maybe more accurate than their horoscope. >> So okay. >> What do you think your martini preference says about you? Well, it definitely doesn't match my horoscope because I'm a Libra which is all about balance and that is not about balance. >> No, it's not. Is this like your your moon rising? Maybe which is a cancer and I don't know too much about that but maybe this is more accurate. >> The vermouth rinsed on this so there's no actual vermouth in the cocktail. This is literally just vodka shaken with Castelvetrano olive juice and then some of the blue cheese fragments get in there. >> Okay, so when you read it, were you like, "What's wrong with this girl?" Were you like Okay, yes. I think this is frankly like this is a pervert's martini and I and I use >> [laughter] >> No, and I use that phrase like lovingly. Somebody who loves fish eggs and you know, fermented fish on top of normal eggs. I think this shows that like you're not afraid to kind [music] of get dirty in a meal and ask for what you actually really want. >> Which is clearly salt factor. >> Which is clearly salt factor. So we have the ruffles potato chips with a little bit of creme fraiche and then we have some golden kaluga caviar right on top with just a little bit of chives to garnish. Is my Texas [music] roots showing that I want it on a ruffled potato chip? It is. I respect it, though. There's not many better things in life than that. I agree entirely. Do you remember the first time that you had caviar? I think my mom maybe offered me money to try it. Interesting. And then I think that I really liked it but I acted like I didn't so I kept getting money for trying it. Which is really smart, don't you think? For a third grade dropout? Yeah, I mean you were really always you had that business acumen. >> money. >> The Harvard extension school like really paid off. >> [laughter] >> You know what I mean? I think you had a good racket going. >> Mhm. Mhm. We called Chef Maeve McOliffe over at Roy's place >> [music] >> and we got the recipe from her. Shoutout to Chef Maeve. And so this is a soft boiled egg just so the yolk is kind of fudgy. The mayonnaise technique here is really beautiful. You put it on an ice bath [music] to actually whip more air into the mayonnaise because proteins stiffen when they're cold. Like this is an elite dish right here. My manager whom I love doesn't like mayonnaise, even the word mayonnaise and I'm just like I trust you with my life but the fact that you don't like mayonnaise really bothers me. [music] You've described yourself as like a grubby Texas kid. There's something grubby about mayonnaise in a very specific way. There was actually a scientist who tried to do [music] the psychological study on people who don't like mayonnaise and found that it comes down to the fact that it resembles bodily fluids. No, truly. Well, not not even just not not even just that one. I mean like like pus and and mucus but also I I am that gross person who loves mayonnaise. I I love fish that has been cured especially when you can see [music] the entire spine. >> Yeah, 100% me, too. You're not going to one time it, right? I was going to one time it. Do you bite this in half? >> going to bite it in half but I'm a lady. >> I'll do it. I'll do it. I can be demure, too. >> All right. Hot damn. The anchovy. That's just a combination of textures, Mhm. salt, the mayonnaise is like fluffy. Yeah. And this is like a very French dish but also feels very Californian with like the herbs and the pickled mustard seed. Do you think that amid all the worlds of like Grey Goose martinis and caviar, have you had to fight to keep some of your like blue collar grubby Texas roots? Is that important to you? For the most part, I eat healthy. Like I do eat a lot of healthy meals but I love to get dirty. I also love McDonald's. That's like a really big downfall of my personality and I feel like it's also like a product of how I was raised. Like I love a box macaroni and cheese. >> Well, how do you deal with raising kids in a caviar environment coming from a boxed mac and cheese world? Okay. Are you worried about them getting too kind of bougie for their britches? >> So Luca, my 13-year-old son loves caviar. And now Banks, my 7-year-old who last year would have thought that was absolutely disgusting is getting down on the caviar. Maeve Maeve, my 4-year-old won't touch it. One of Maeve Maeve's best friends like asked for caviar for Christmas. A 4-year-old. I know she was just like She has really fantastic taste in in food. >> It's funny your your new album is called Luck or Something and you've said that it's the response to the question of how did you make it out of the industry alive from getting in at such a young age. And the luck is self-explanatory. It's the or something where it gets pretty interesting but I think a lot of it might come down to this like foundational myth that we have and I think yours has this foundational myth of like [music] a grubby barefoot Texas kid surrounded by all this that feels very foreign. It seems like it'd be something that was really helpful. Do you think it was? Yeah, I think it was and I think that I had a very normal childhood where like my dad would >> [music] >> cook steaks on the weekend and we had family meals, you know, um every night and we spent a lot of time together. [music] We had we had the foundation and that was really nice and it kind of stresses me out that I'm raising my kids in LA but um I think it just depends on like the the things that you make important within your household and underneath your roof, you know? And my son goes to camp where I went to camp in Texas every summer. Yeah, and there's no electricity and those were like my core memories and they're becoming his and they'll be my my girls, too. So, you know, it's just Yeah. You got to like make your choices and stick to them and me being from Texas and being in this world uh definitely has helped, you know, also I didn't like my parents didn't take all my money or You know what I mean? Like that was that was I but also >> [music] >> I am who I am and you know, I got to take some credit for that, too. Yeah. I'm curious about your relationship to the word luck cuz [music] to me there's almost an arrogance in saying that luck doesn't exist. All of this is because of my own resolve and and hard work but then there's almost like an I do work hard. You Hey. >> [laughter] >> You do work hard and but you know, there's also this I think it's almost a false humility to saying like, "Oh, it was all luck." Yeah. >> you fall in in that spectrum? How much was luck and how much was just pure resolve, sense of will and people around you? >> I think that the title of the record means a whole bunch to me and it is answering that question of like, "Oh, how'd you make it out alive?" You know, I don't know how [clears throat] to answer that. There was no particular formula I followed to be okay, you know? I think that also part of this record for me is when I was making music as a teenager, I was [music] an actress and I was coming off of a really big show, obviously Lizzie McGuire and no one wanted to accept me as a singer like in the music industry >> [music] >> and the amazing fanbase that I had from Lizzie McGuire who like followed me into music like made me >> [music] >> very successful and like just fought for me to like have a position. And so I think it's a little nod to also talking about that because I I feel like that kind of stage in my life I never really got my flowers and getting [music] to like come back around this time and be like I don't know was it luck or something or something [music] to me like I don't you know it's a whole it's a whole layered title and I really like that because I think a lot of people arrive at their life at 30 or 40 and it's such [music] a mixed bag of how you got to where you got. Yeah. I do think there's a lot to being in the right place at the right [music] time but it's also like what you put in. Yeah. It's funny because your fans that would have been young at the time generally watching Lizzie McGuire they're now in their 30s and they're in their 40s and they're dealing with all of the problems of relationships and children and thinking about the large you know scope of the universe and everything [music] and so now it's almost like they've grown as you've grown and now you're speaking on an even playing field. I think that's the biggest why factor you I'm sure I'm going to get asked a whole bunch you know during this this [music] kind of like press cycle and releasing the record and having it be being out in the world like the why like why now why now why now you waited 10 years >> [music] >> and I think I'm mostly just excited to meet people again where they're at where I'm at >> [music] >> where they're at I think we've been through a lot of the same things whether it's becoming a mother getting a divorce navigating just the world and life and figuring out your identity outside of [music] motherhood or adulthood or whatever you know it's going to be really cool to like see those people again who I I knew as a as a preteen into my teenage years and not that I've had like a private life since then I've always been very public but it's just going to be cool I feel like we have a lot in common [music] and we have different things to say to each other. Ready to go on to course number two? Yeah. Let's do it. >> [bell] >> All right Hillary for course number two of your last meal we have a burger fries and a coke. Yeah. So this is an In-N-Out cheeseburger this is mustard fried >> Yeah. grilled onions >> Yeah. extra pickles no tomato >> Yeah. but not because you dislike tomato >> Love tomato. You love tomato. >> Yeah. I don't need that watery unsalted tomato on my burger from from In-N-Out. That is elite ball knowledge though that you would say unsalted tomato cuz every chef or accomplished home cook knows you salt the tomato before it goes on. >> I feel seen. Thank you. I have to eat one of these fries. >> You want the fries so the fries from Petit Trois however we did make these in house. I want this shape. Mhm. I want this amount of like I don't know what I want the size. Yeah. Always. I want crisp on the edge and like wiggly in the middle. And salt I want to see the salt [music] on there. These fries are blanched and double fried in a very classic French style and >> is that I'm having right now is that I'm looking at yours and there's a french fry in yours that I want to eat. >> Okay this is your last meal. Right. >> your last meal. >> it's this one right here. >> want anything from my plate I mean I'll trade you for one of the olives left in your martini cuz apparently I just sucked all of those down. >> I will share that with you but this is my dream fry. You can tell it's a little wiggly but it's like crispy on the end and it was like calling my name you can have yours back now. >> Thank you so much but you want that little bit of burn on there. >> Uh-huh. People don't understand what goes into a french fry. No. It seems just like a basic side. Do you think there's a kind of metaphor there for like people not seeing on the surface how much actual work goes into everything? Yes. Do you think that's been like a lot of your life and career and you look all put together? >> gone yes I definitely think it's a metaphor. A good french fry it goes down easy in the same way that like a good song on like a pop or pop adjacent record it goes down easy but also there's so much that goes into it. >> There's so much that goes >> And especially with your husband being a producer and writer and somebody who Okay I read comments which is so psychotic I should not. Sometimes I do sometimes I don't I know. And it's like you know for every like 20 comments there's like a bad comment and your brain is like obviously magnetized towards like grabbing that bad comment and he's like we have to just make what we think is cool know all that goes behind it like making these delicious french fries and know that we're like selling this to the people who like you and there's like tons of people that don't like you and that's okay you can't be liked by everyone and like [music] you know as it gets bigger the noise gets louder and like what you create and once you put it out isn't yours anymore so you just have to make sure you really like it for the specific time that it's like yours or ours Mhm. and then once you put it out you're just like now it's not mine and now like it's fine like whatever whoever likes it likes it and whoever doesn't doesn't. Tell me about the burger you had your mature single release party catered by In-N-Out at the roller rink. Oh okay I kind of forgot about the lettuce. Wait do you got no lettuce too? Well I'm going to take a bite with the lettuce and I'm going to see how it does me okay? Well we we didn't talk about this. We can talk about whichever thing you want to talk about first. Is my face getting hot yet cuz the martini is really hitting the bloodstream. >> Hey you and me both cheers. The diet coke is sober yet. >> So a mom like a mom hack is to like order a glass of wine and a diet coke at the same time and I used to be like who would like water down their little like wine buzz with a diet coke and now you? Yeah yeah moms and me. You and >> [laughter] [sighs and snorts] >> Do you know why a diet coke from McDonald's hits different than a different diet coke? I want to hear your answer. This is what I've heard is that diet coke has a lifelong contract with McDonald's they get their liquid pre-mixed and delivered by truck to the McDonald's. Everybody else who serves diet coke gets like the cartridges that then their machine like cracks or whatever and then does the blend on at the restaurant. >> Yeah. I've heard I've I've heard that too. I I don't think that has been verified by anyone one because I think trade secrets are a little Go find out. I Someone someone get Mr. McDonald on the line. Mr. McDonald >> We'll get him in but I my theory is that it's a lot simpler it's that their straws are bigger. What? >> are .02 inches bigger than any other fast food straw and if you think about it >> gets hit with the You just get more of it. There's a lot of there's there's so many theories behind this and I think this kind of came at a time when you couldn't fact check things as readily. Right. But that was almost like viral now you have to fact check so many things. Yeah and trust that the fact check is I don't know it's all very complicated. I don't like the internet. Here I go. The mustard fried Mhm. is really good. Also I don't think my bite is big as yours. Your bite is so much bigger than that's incredible. I want to get all the flavors at the same time. I don't like the first bite that's just bread. Mhm as a born and bred Texan Yeah. you chose In-N-Out over Whataburger which I think a lot of people would be offended by. We've flown in Whataburger for last meals Hillary you could have asked for it. Would you have done that? I've got to be honest my Texas people I'm going to let them down right now. I had a Whataburger not too long ago and it didn't it didn't hold a candle to In-N-Out. Again I told you I like my roots I don't know that I would like go back there. Hillary you're speaking truth to power right now and I think that's very brave >> Thank you. >> and I really respect that you did that. >> Thank you. I want to go back to your new album. As your husband Matt posted an Instagram post that said this album is you stepping into a voice that you didn't get to have [music] when you were younger which I thought was a really interesting phrasing. Were there any songs on your new album that surprised you in terms of the voice that you found like oh I didn't know I needed to say that but now that I'm here it's sort of flowing out of me. There's a lot of themes on the record that are about like abandonment and um um anxiety about becoming like complacent in a long-term relationship. >> It was like a very deeply personal album that I was I don't know very grateful to hear cuz frankly I wasn't expecting it in a [music] way. That's really kind thank you for saying that and you know I don't want everybody to think it's like not a pop record cuz it very much is a pop record and I think that's kind of my magic trick in music is like pairing the tracks with something that feels like >> [music] >> dreamy and light and Hillary Duff Mhm. but I'm saying things that affect me as Hillary Duff who's 38 years old and you know has a lot of life under her belt. You know making this record with Matt was like really the only safe way I could do it. I had just had Townes who's our our last baby. I was like so desperate to like find that version of who I was um no who I am and like start to express that and you know not be like the mom that stays home and packs lunches and I love that side of motherhood too but I I I've been working since I was 12 and I really needed like more. Yeah. And so it was cool. It was really cool and and there was no way to do it without like being 100% like open and exposed you know like the raw nerve and and and there's things I say on the record that like I'm nervous about sharing. Yeah. think that's that's like art and that's why you do it. You know what I mean there's healing and there's connection in that with people. Yeah. It's really interesting having the bop of it all stuck in my head but then as I sing it out loud as I'm like I wish that I could sleep on planes and that my father would really love me. I'm like oh this is catchy this is also like tremendously heartbreaking. The the optimist is my favorite song on the record. It is. >> It is because the imagery is so vivid you talk about this splinter in your finger that is taking up so much of the weight in your mind of like you know these abandonment issues with your father and really getting raw deep on that. >> Yeah. And I think that's something that as you talked about your fans aging up with you we've all dealt with that amount of personal loss in In >> Yeah. But are you hoping for for resolution from that or is the point of art just to get your feelings out there and whatever comes from it comes from it? Am I hoping for resolution? Of course. [music] I think that anybody who has a family who has like complications and difficulty finding their way back to each other. I talk about my childhood and my life in Texas and it being like so solid. Like, a lot happened since then. And I think a lot of people at my age have also experienced that. And um as raw as it sounds and as exposing as it sounds to talk about those things and just give people like like lyrics um it's really real. And it's like the most painful part of my life. And um and I always do hope for resolution. And you know, this is my truth and my side of the story and my my things to tell and and then and that and I want to share that because I think that a lot of people are are also struggling with that. Yeah. You know, if I hadn't been in the public eye for such a long time people wouldn't pick apart your lyrics and know exactly what I was talking about. They might be able to connect to them in a different way. Mhm. But, since I've been a public person since I was 10 years old, everybody knows my family and everybody assumes kind of what has happened or what we've been through and um and that's really hard. It's a really hard place to be like, I want to be vulnerable and share here and I know that as soon as I put it out, you know, TikTok talking heads will have >> Oof. so much to say about it or assume about it or this thing that they want and this thing that they want for clicks and um >> [clears throat] >> it's really hard. Yeah, you almost like can't make art anonymously anymore. Not necessarily anonymously, but that's an interesting thing that I'd never considered that if you come out with a song that has one slightly vague reference, that slightly vague reference means a whole lot to people who have known yeah. >> Yeah. And and there's, you know, maybe a 38% chance that they're right, but that doesn't matter because that's going to spread and spread. So, the cool part about that is that now I'm a mother of four. I have a like husband who I freaking adore and love and who's like the funniest person on the planet Earth and I love that like when he walks in the door at night, I'm like, he's home. I'm so excited to hang out, you know? And I'm so excited to do our family things. And I think back to the 16-year-old me or the 14-year-old me who didn't have that. And I like send her love because [music] now like the noise matters, of course. Sometimes it gets under my skin and I'm a human being, but like I go home to my family and that's what matters the most, you know? My kids are like a wild good time. My house is my favorite place to be. My husband's like my best friend. It's just it's safe. You know, and that feels a little bit different. So, being able to be truthful and make music and just say what's bouncing around in here is a different experience than like the girl who was making music and like hoping it was on the radio and like of course I hope all of those things, but like I get to go back to a really safe place and know that I'm loved and cared about. What the hell is the radio? Yeah. >> [bell] >> Hillary, for course number three of your final meal, we have the corn agnolotti from Giorgio Baldi. And then we have your mom's chicken and dumplings. >> [laughter] >> I like you said dumplings. Dumplings. With, of course, the blue cheese martini and the daiquiri. Are you still eyeing my olives? I'm willing to give them up. I would love at least like one olive. I think we can share. Okay. >> All right, I'll take one. >> [snorts] >> This is kind of a tale of two cities in a way because this is like these celebrity hotspot restaurant for a very specific moment in time and this was the dish that you get there. Yeah. And then we have a recipe that I believe originates with your grandmother. Oh, yeah. Before your mom. >> Yes. We actually made the corn agnolotti ourselves. There's a little bit of black truffle chopped up into the sauce, but then it's an egg yolk pasta dough folded over with like a sweet corn emulsion, just a little bit of parmesan and mascarpone in there to sell that sweetness. It's insane. Such a good dish. It's so delicate. Do you remember like the first time you went to Giorgio Baldi and what year it might have been? I ditched my shoes. Taking my shoes off, too. It definitely went for the first time with my ex-husband. And so I must have been 19. If anyone wants to do that math, I'm 38. Doesn't say. >> And by the way, Giorgio was still alive. Wow. And used to chase the paparazzi with a wine bottle when he would try to like when we would try be like pulling out leaving the restaurant and people would be like snapping snapping snapping. Giorgio, sweet little old man, would come out with a wine bottle like he's going to beat the paparazzi. >> Hell [laughter] yes. The last true defender of truth and justice in Los Angeles. >> Right? He's like, they just want a good meal. So funny. I remember I had two Italian roommates right when I moved to Los Angeles. So, I'd have been 20 years old and on a fake ID said I was from 51 Caesar Road in Storrs, Connecticut. Still remember the address. But, I went there with my two Italian roommates. One had written a screenplay >> [music] >> in Rome and he printed out a laminated copy of the screenplay and said we're getting dinner at Giorgio Baldi and I'm going to leave this screenplay on the table in case Martin Scorsese comes and eats there. Stop. And so I went I drove them. They didn't have a license. >> have the dough to eat there? Oh, we did not and I'll tell you what happened. We literally [laughter] went there. We drove my '95 Ford Taurus to Giorgio Baldi. Did not We like the valet stopped us and went, "No, no, no." And we went and got street parking. And then we went in there and we got the cheapest glass of wine and we got this pasta to share among three of us. And by the way, the pastas are like tiny tiny. This is like twice the portion that you get at Giorgio Baldi. And then yeah, he left his screenplay there with a waiter and said if any famous directors come in, tell them I gave this to you. And they're like, we don't with famous directors. This dude. This waiter's face was just so confused, but Giorgio Baldi is very much a moment in time in Los Angeles. >> right? Does that feel like a simpler time, a better time? Things feel weird now. Is it just that we've gotten older? >> want to go back to luck or something, there's themes on the record that really toggle between if your younger time was simpler for you or like, you know, when you're you go out and you have those nights with your friends and like someone definitely is like tears in the toilet by the end of the night. >> Mhm. And you're like, that was a horrible time. Like, so-and-so kissed so-and-so right in front of my face. This happened, that happened. Like, just that like dramatic going out night of your 20s. >> [music] >> And then you like look back at it with such like rose-colored glasses that like you were like, that was the time. That was the best time ever. And you're like, that night was horrible. What am I talking about here? >> to actually relive that now, it would be a horror show to you. Right. But, like you look back with such fondness and every I I feel like we're all just like searching, but now I'm searching with like my feet planted on the ground and like, you know, my life like figured out and I feel >> [music] >> like happy and not like so there's not like so many question marks and like, you know, but you but looking back on that time is like such [music] a fun experience. Yeah. And everybody should feel good where they landed, but I everybody should also look back and be like, remember when it felt freer? [music] Yeah. And it's funny how closely associated you and your work has been for so many people in my generation growing up. For instance, my wife went and studied abroad in Rome primarily because Lizzie McGuire movie. >> Hopefully a boy gave her a ride on a Vespa. And he never did and you know what? That's totally okay because I was that boy coming in with a '95 Ford Taurus swooping >> [laughter] >> swooping hard. But, like I feel like you deserve the key to the city of Rome because there were so many people. She realized she talked to other people on her trip and they're like, "Lizzie McGuire movie? Yeah, Lizzie McGuire movie." Yeah. Do you remember anything you ate in Rome shooting that? Was it like a four-day shoot in Rome and everything else was shot in a No, we actually were there for quite a while. Like, we were there for three weeks. Mhm. Okay, I'm going to get into this while I'm talking. Please. Cuz this is like this is my childhood. So, what we did, we did use Bisquick. We did a nice little like classic béchamel with a bunch of that chicken renderings in the gravy. Broke down all the chicken. Your classic mirepoix in here. This is as comfort food as it gets. Okay. So, yes, we were there for quite a while. It was a wild time because the Italians work so much differently and we were like all still kids and they'd like go drink wine on their lunch break and like take a two-hour lunch break and then there's like basically an hour and a half left to the day with kids. You know? So, it was hard to like get all the things that we needed. >> I stand with the Italians on this one. Now I do too. That is so good. Did you get chicken or did you go dumpling? Oh, I I went dumpling immediately. Also, to me this is just called matzo ball soup. My potato potato, it's the same thing. And so, this is also comfort for me. Got it. So, my mom used to tell me that this is off topic, but what one of the things I love so much is my mom was so playful with us as a kid and I feel like that's the thing that I learned from her. Like with my kids, I always am just like, I want to play. I want to play. I want to play. And the fourth kid, not so much. I was like, I'm kind of tired of watching like shapes go in a basket, but like love you so much. >> What do you just hand them Tolstoy and go figure it out? >> Yeah. Well, the other kids play with them. Play with her now. And I actually I do have a that little part of Trad in me where I love to cook dinner and I love Matt to come home to like a a dinner that's made and like we're ready to eat. >> Yeah. But, she told me she was like, "Anytime you're in a pinch, just throw a mirepoix on. Everybody will think you're way more into the like give someone a glass of wine and put the mirepoix on the stove and like it'll smell like lots is happening in the kitchen." It's so true. That's so smart. I um onions frying in butter. Don't even need the the carrot and celery. Without fail, somebody walks in the door and goes, "That smells so good." >> Yeah. Do you still have your grandmother's cookbook holder in your kitchen? Mhm. How important is it to you to like keep those reminders for the people that came before you? I will have it forever. My grandma was an amazing cook. Southern, so heavy heavy food. Her egg salad, [clears throat] her chicken salad, like I'm pretty sure my mom makes her chicken salad, which is one of my favorite things to [music] make. And tuna salad also, which has like pecans in it. One, putting pecans in anything is a very Texan thing to do. And I think pronouncing it You're pronouncing it correctly, right? Pecan? But they don't call it pecan. They call it pecan pecan. Do they call it pecans in Texas? I don't know. It's like roof or ruff, who knows? I I think I toggle between both. When I first got to LA, I was like teased so much for having an accent and being from Texas that you just drop it. Yeah. You just forget about it. People like didn't think that we had um like paved roads. And they would be like, "Do you ride a horse to school?" >> Houston's like the fourth biggest city in America. >> I know. It always gets like like food praise and you know, we have like amazing restaurants and stuff, but Also, accents sound different when you're younger. For instance, the last time I watched the Lizzie McGuire movie before last night, probably would have been 20 plus years ago. >> Mhm. Your uh uh co-star as Paolo, um he's just a Jewish man from Miami. And the Italian accent does slip a little bit. But anyways, I was like I was thinking about the plot of that movie. And um Paolo trying >> Very disturbing. Like very true crime, right? Like Paolo trying to frame Isabella, who's missing, might have been kidnapped. You come in as like a doppelganger kind of face switch situation. Very young. Very young. Yeah. Um yeah, both children not I don't know about the Italian legal system and how that works. But the implications are frightening. But my first thought was like, "Well, this plan would never make any sense." Um but that's sort of through a modern media lens cuz back then, if Paolo had enough close ties with [music] the Italian media and he can get his story out first and he can maybe even offer something on trade for other journalists to keep quiet. >> Mhm. Isabella tries [music] to tell her story, she's branded as crazy because that was the era of media that we're in. And there was this kind of horrifying realization of like, "Well, this could maybe work because it's like 2004." >> [music] >> And that was how media functioned back then. Yeah. Did you feel trapped in that constantly as a young person? Cuz you were in a very very specific time. I'm thinking about the sort of Vanity Fair cover called It's Raining Teens. >> [laughter] >> Does anybody know what the hell I'm talking about? It was horrifying. >> Oh, yeah. I feel like actually we were a part of a very important movement that like made space for teens to like get treated seriously. Oh, interesting. It's kind of like horrifying to think about like young kids working as adults anyway. No, agreed. And it's weird that that's the only industry where they're allowed to. It's cuz like, "Well, we need a child to be in this movie, so surely we can break the child labor laws that were protecting kids for 100 years to not die in factory accidents. But now we need them and sometimes we need twins because one starts crying and we need to replace them." So, I got replaced off of a TV [music] show with twins because they could work double the time that I could, right? >> [music] >> I know. And I was like I thought I got fired and I was like literally 11. And I was like, "I'm horrible. I suck at my job. I got fired. Nobody likes me." And it was like my mom was trying to explain like, "This is why this happened, you know?" >> Yeah. It's funny just having like a teenager now and like Luca will he's a great soccer player, but you know, he still has to try out for his [music] spot for his school team. Mhm. And every time I'm just like, "Hey, just so you know, rejection is like a part of life. And like I know you're going to go and smash it and I'm sure you're going to get a spot on the team. But if you don't, there's always like going to be another opportunity or there's always, you know, and that and that's just the truth of the world and I think maybe that's what they start to prep you for. But being like a child actor, you get prepped way too soon. Sure. And it's a really harsh like judgment zone to live in constantly if you give it enough weight, you know? >> Did you let that rejection really weigh you down when you were younger? Like have you gotten And I and I and I was never like pushed into acting and I was never pushed into singing. My mom, you know, knew that my sister and I loved [music] performing. And so when you see that in your kid or you see them like geared towards sports, like I understand giving that what your kids are interested in, giving that energy. You know what I mean? Cuz like God knows we do so much driving in our family for Luca to get to all the soccer that he needs to go to or for Brinkley to like make all of her dance classes or whatever it you know, whatever the interest is. You want to help feed that. Yeah. Back when I was doing it, no one was acting and or where I came from, maybe no one was acting. So everyone thought it was like she has a stage mom or she has like, you know, what are they doing? It's It was just different. So um [music] there's no way to really prepare yourself for the industry, but we [music] were you know, I definitely knew what I wanted to do. Yeah. It was so interesting that you really were the forerunner for a lot of what seems like it became a model from Disney. I didn't realize that you were effectively the first person to go from a Disney Channel show to uh like a Hollywood Records contract, sort of paving the way for your [clears throat] your Demis, your Selenas, but that sort of means that you had to write the playbook informally as it may have been. Did you ever feel like you were out there in the Wild West? Did you know that you were launching something or you were just trying to get through every single day? I think I was just trying to get through every single day. Yeah. And then by the time I was like on tour um and like Hannah Montana came out, um like Wizards of Waverly Place or Demi's show, everyone was like, "Oh, like the the playbook is different. The guidelines are different. The the you know, And that was a weird thing to be like attached to cuz it wasn't like on purpose. It was just, you know, it was really nice that I had my mom in my corner being like, "What's happening here? Like this is, you know, Yeah. And for better or for worse, like I think there was obviously mistakes made and like a learning process, but it's hard to be like a family up against like a machine. Of course. >> think that it was like a war at all. Like I have a great relationship with them, but um >> Is everyone competing for self-interest in a certain way? You're trying to protect yourself. They're They're also on a learning journey and you're like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. Unprecedented things are happening [music] here." You know, and like crazy amount of money is like being made in one direction here. And so, you know, when it came to like my record deal, it was it was really nice to have people figuring out how it to like also serve me and and serve the artist, which is so important and so hard now, especially now, you know, to. It's so nice to have like a platform [music] like social media for people to get exposure and to get eyes on them. But past that point, it's so [music] expensive to launch a career. Were there things that your mom did that back then you would have bristled at and then now as you're a mother yourself and you're older, you're like, "Oh, I really appreciate what she was able to do for me." Yes, of course. I mean, [music] 100% I'm super grateful for her. Yeah. You know, and there's things my parents did that I'm like I definitely am filing that in the like I won't do that, you know? >> Sure, yeah. And then there's like a whole pocketbook full of things that they did really really right and I'm really appreciative of, you know? Yeah. So. Ready to go to dessert? Yeah. >> [bell] >> Hillary, for the final course of your final meal, we have Aunt Rose's pineapple upside down cake. And then we have the Cadbury [music] mini eggs. And can I serve you a slice? >> Yes, I would love it. So, I love this cake and oh wow, it's got a mini egg on top. >> god. Okay, this is such a Southern thing to do. Canned cherries is very Southern. Okay, I'm so [music] excited. It's like a butter cake, but with fruit. Not a fruit, but fruit from a can. [music] Which is >> it time to really break down and absorb the sugar. Which it really makes it nostalgic. Uh and then here, of course, we have the Cadbury mini eggs. These are um old chocolate, but covered in very hard candy. >> Yes, yes, yes. The chocolate is old, but the candy, it's very hard, which is what makes these so special. Why are you saying the chocolate is old? >> [music] >> I'm glad you asked. When was Easter? I always forget if it's in March or April. I'm not going to lie. Is it April? Early April, late March? Is it the same every year? What month are we in now? We can break the fourth wall here. What month are we shooting this in? We're in January. [music] This is from the previous one. You know? This is from April 2025. >> I don't I don't accept what you're saying. These are fresh and they're delicious and you know it. What I love most is that they mean a lot to you and that you're being vulnerable and sharing this with me. That and that's the most [clears throat] exciting thing. >> I do not accept that. >> It kind of What What's the burning in my throat? What's the burning in my throat? Why does it do that? You're not getting that >> like your own acid reflux problems. I don't know. That's not from the mini eggs. >> We've eaten a hell of a hell of a combination of things. >> [laughter] >> That came into my life because my assistant, hi Lo. She's been with me for 14 years now. She's a deep integrated part of my life. Her family is my family. She grew up on these. Mhm. >> And she would make a big deal out of it every Easter. She's like, "I got to go get Cadbury mini eggs." And I was like, I didn't grow up with this. Yeah. I am so deeply obsessed with these now. There's something different about them. I'm curious what you've learned over the course of your life in terms of what's actually important. Cuz almost every person that I've sat across from at this table, they've come to the realization, especially older ones, that money, wealth, success, even in artistic pursuits, don't actually matter. The only thing that does is relationships. [music] It's the time you spent with family and friends. Yeah. Have you come to that realization as you've gotten older or was that always something that you held very close to you? It's always something that I've held really close to me. I've always believed in quality over quantity. A lot of my best friends I've had for almost 20 years now, which is something that I am very proud of. Yeah. Um just like living authentically, right? As you grow when you start to be like, this is what I really like. This is how what fulfills me. This is rewarding to me. This is like it all boils down to like friends and family. [music] And um and I think just like living it sounds so dumb, but like honestly just like living your truth, like living authentically, creating authentically. Um it's really hard to not get like caught up in the rat race, and I think a certain amount of that is like healthy. You know, it's great to have aspirations and goals and dreams and to like be enthusiastic about that and energized around that, you know, cuz it feels good to be successful. >> [music] >> Of course. But it feels even better to have your people around you, your tried and trues, your ride or dies, your like your circle that you share you share the same like you're going for the same outcome constantly, and I think that's really important. Yeah. [clears throat] I'm curious how important the idea of blood relation is to that because there's the idea of like a family and then a chosen family, your friends of 20 years. But you also had a song on your album called We Don't Talk that made me reflect on like my own relationship with my brother, Mhm. you know, of um how many things have gotten in the way of us actually communicating over the years. >> [music] >> Is like maintaining that relationship with your sister something that's really important, or do you think there is a point where you can say, "Hey, we have different beliefs, we have different lives. We can separate this and understand that we have that love. We're you know, all the same lock with a different combination." I think that's a really hard question to answer um because it's constantly um changing. Like day to day brings on the different feeling around it, you know? And sometimes it's a really settled feeling of acceptance and like, you know, obviously hope that things will change sometime someday. Um but there's like anger or hurt or, you know, things I can't control um that that surround that topic as well. You know, that's that [music] is the most lonely part of my life is like not necessarily having my sister in my life right now. >> Yeah. What makes it easier is being a parent Mhm. and having my kids. Um and I hope it changes [clears throat] one day, but it's not it's not changing right now, and um and that's okay. Like I think that I just have to continue to try to send love spiritually or, you know, energetically, and I hope the same thing is happening on the other end and and um you know, families are so complicated. Yeah. And some things are in your control and some things are out of your control, and it takes two people to you know, make choices to come together again or separate or whatever. So. In the equation of luck or something, it's the or something where it gets really interesting that complication >> the weight is. Truly, yeah. >> what I mean? That's where all the weight is held in. Hopefully it's always it hopefully it's a wave. I think life tends to be cyclical in a lot of ways and come back around. Yeah. Um it's tradition we ask every guest on the show, what do you think happens after you die? I mean, I pray to God. I'm not really huge on like uh organized religion, but I I believe in my angels and my God, and part of me is just [music] like we have to enjoy every single moment here because like when it's over, it's over. Yeah. And then part of me like feels too that's too final and forever feels like so long, and so I'm like, you know, we we're all like learning our lessons, and maybe this is like our multiple, you know, we've been here a few times before [music] and like I always love to say, "Oh, for some reason this is my cross to bear in my in my life." Yeah. [music] And I wonder if that's from like previous lifetimes, or you feel so connected to someone that you're like, "We just This isn't the first time we've met, you know?" Um I I'm not sure exactly what my answer is [music] to that question, but I hope I get to leave feeling this full. I just love the idea that you might be >> [laughter] >> on your >> You might be on your third go-round in life and [clears throat] whatever cosmic course >> before, by the way. >> Guys, another round. Let's do shots of Fernet Fernet. Great great. Fernet Fernet. You ready to get in the lightning round? Yes. Who's the one person dead or alive you'd want to share your actual last meal with? Matthew. What song do you want to be played at your funeral? I don't know. I like I love the Tears for Fears song Everybody Wants to Rule the World. That's one of my fave songs, but like do I want it to be like Mmmbop? That's also one of my favorites. Mmmbop would be crazy. I feel like Hanson needs it more than Tears for Fears. Let's give it to Hanson. >> Hanson. Give it to Hanson. Do you think King George the First was right to grant Alexander Spotswood naval assistance to deal with the growing piracy threat in the Virginia colony? Back then there was no fact-checking, so sure, they probably thought they were on their correct mission. >> [music] >> And maybe they were. Fair point. And he held Blackbeard's head in his hand. Right. That's kind of dope. >> It's kind of dope I get to tell my kids that. Um who's your dream eulogizer at your funeral? My husband's best friends with Christopher Mintz-Plasse. I love him. He's McLovin. [music] He married us. He married us. Are you kidding? No. Hell yeah. I hope I outlive him, but like maybe we just got to take this thing full [music] circle. Have you ever worn a skirt as a shirt? I'm sure I have. What's >> But not not I was never like talking about the gays while I was doing it. But now I want to say it more than ever cuz like I am obsessed with the gays, and I love them so much, and I'm like, now people don't want to say it. Now I just want to say that's so gay to everything that's like this is so gay. This is so gay. This is the gayest most delicious cakes. These are so gay. These are actually like disproportionately gay. These are gay. You need This is the new PSA. Get me a skirt as a top. Let's go. Bring in the skirt. What's your biggest fear? Anything happening to my family. I love On this note, my my daughter just got her teeth jammed back up in her mouth. >> Oh. I know. That that was a light-hearted like like it could get way worse than that, but that those are my biggest fears, yeah. Who is the father? We never found out. That was so sad that we got canceled during the strike. It was horrible. Do you want to just make it up canonically right now? Sure. It's um I was just going to say Josh Peck, uh but the real Josh Peck, not as not in character, but >> Right. I was just going to say Jason Segel. Oh, that'd be good. Um a lot of people said it was Seretse. Like [music] and I was like, "Whoa, that's a hot take because my like that would be like sleeping with my [music] who Well, actually I can't even remember what some of those about. It's about the martini. I don't know who [laughter] the father was. I don't think it was any of the people in the room. That makes sense. >> It was going to be like an extra walking by. Like I know we started the season by being like, "The father of my child is in this room." But I don't think it was any of the main characters. [music] I think as the season progressed we would have like zoomed in on like an extra in the background, and it would like would have been that person >> Yeah, yeah. Yeah, sometimes living in the mystery Maybe Kim Cattrall knows. Call up Kim. Figure [laughter] it out. Uh finally, Hillary, are you happy? Oh, yeah. You seem like This is the stance of somebody that is happy. >> [laughter] >> Um I'm incredibly happy. Thank you so much for spending this time with us. Um this is really incredible. If you want to deliver your last words to that camera right there, Thank you. That would be my last words. Thank you. This is so incredible. You can take home the cake if you want. >> Love. And everybody, make sure you check out Luck or Something, and you're going on tour as well? I am. That's exciting. Yeah, we're packing we're packing our family up and going all summer. >> God. Yeah. We have unsettled business though. We got to play the gross We got to play the gross food game. Go go. >> [bell] >> 30-second chef. Hey, none of these are like dangerously expired, right? You are going so down. >> a major onset accident in like months. What happens when you get a party in me? I kind of think mine works on a certain culinary level. >> Are you ready? Wait, do we do it at the same time? Okay. But But the part is is you have to try to depict what's in there. I'm so scared. You have to take the whole thing off. Exactly what I WANTED. OH, NO. WHERE AM I LOOKING? OKAY, THERE'S FISH. THERE'S A LOT OF FISH. What is that? There's imitation crab. It feels like imitation crab. Is there something sweet? What is the sweet thing? It's like It's got to be the >> It's the diet coke. >> coke in there. That's what that is. It's the aspartame. What's [laughter] the crunch? There's a onion. >> There's some ham. There's What's the ham? I thought it was Is there no imitation >> Strawberry sauce? It was an onion. Yeah, yeah. Oh, you found You took a paring knife? An onion? And also this. What is this? Is that the fish? >> That's Korean ssamjang. That's the rice. >> What is this? What is this? What is this? What is this? What is this? Ganjang gyejang. So that's that's uh just pure rice mold. >> Okay. Okay. [laughter] It's better than I thought. Do you have any like extreme fears of like uh crea- No, you're You're a Texan, you're good. You're fine. Salty. That was my bad. Now I feel guilty. I don't like that I did that. That was so mean. >> [laughter] >> This is like when you were a kid and you were bigger than all the other kids, and you played too rough, and then you felt bad, and then you ruined Thanksgiving. You played so rough. It was oyster sauce, guajillo and chili paste, Kraft Parmesan cheese, and then crickets. >> [laughter] >> You're lying. That was the That was the crunch? A lot of cultures eat them. YOU'RE SUCH AN >> [laughter] >> THERE'S a metaphor for here. I'm sorry. >> many crickets in my mouth right >> I'll get you a diet coke. I thought we were playing the gross food game. >> Also, I didn't get you. That makes me sad. I want to read [music] you next album. Same time, same place? >> Mhm. I'm in. We all got to eat and we know you're dying to get your hands on a Last Meals apron and pin. 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