Josh, are you a tinfish girly? Please, Nicole. I’m a tinfish woman. Give me those sardines. Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum. Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum. Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum, yum. This This is a Hot Dog is a Sandwich. Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what? That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. What? Welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. The show where we break down the world’s biggest food debates. I’m your host, Josh Sharer. And I’m your host, Nicole Anaity. And today, Nicole, we’re taking a little throwback to the mid nineteenth century where they first started packing fish into cans and sealing them up to be consumed later. Women didn’t have rights! Women, yeah, they had certain rights, not for They still are lagging. They couldn’t open credit cards. Couldn’t open credit cards in 1854 when they canned the first sardine in Portugal. That’s true. They couldn’t vote. That’s not nice. They couldn’t vote in Swi I think it’s not nice. They couldn’t vote in Switzerland until like, I think the late 1950s. Are you kidding me? Luxembourg, I don’t believe they could vote until like 1971. Uh, pretty incredible stuff actually, look at that. Uh, but anyways, we’re talking all about the tinned fish movement. And when I said I’m a tinned fish woman, that was a reference to the fact that, uh, hot girls eat tinned fish. Now, Nicole, can you explain that to our audience? Can you explain are you calling me a hot girl who eats tin fish? I feel like you are I didn’t I’m not commenting on your looks. I’m merely Asking if you identify as a hot tin fish girly. I am a hot seafood girly Okay, I just like to eat go out and eat seafood Interesting. So, I mean, tinned fish falls into that category. I think a lot of hot restaurants in LA right now do have a bit of a tinned fish craze. I mean, there’s, there’s found oyster, there’s salty girl, there’s all these great places that have, uh, like conservas and like tinned fish. Aside from like the classic, you know, raw bar stuff. Yeah, yeah. So I think tinned fish is having a little bit of a renaissance right now and people are obsessed with it. Oh, big time renaissance. Um, I have a question to pose to everybody, everybody in the room weighing in. Meggie, you’re included in this. What’s up? Uh, when we say tinned fish, are we referring to a simple can of tuna? No. Are we referring to a simple can of salmon? Well, when you say simple, what do you mean by simple? Because when I think of like the tinned fish movement, it’s like the hot girl brands like Fish Wife. Fish Wife is the hottest girl brand as of right now. Fish Wife is the hottest girl brand. So it was founded by Becca Milstein in, God, I think 2020. And a lot of this actually did weirdly coincide with COVID. COVID saw a big rise in tinned fish. Canned salmon spiked like 300 percent or something. And I don’t 100 percent know how to explain that. Oh, Yeah, I forgot we were doomsday preppers for a couple months, huh? Oh, yeah, I was a bit Do you know how many cans of salmon and tuna and like, packets? Like, those StarKist, they’re delicious. Those, like, StarKist packets I bought? Insane. You buy the packets instead of the cans? I bought packets and cans. The packets are so much less cost effective. There was an emergency, what do you mean? I know, we grabbed whatever we could, but the I’m asking, like, when you say Tin fish girly that does not refer to like I eat canned salmon or canned tuna that refers to I am somebody who takes aesthetic and cultural value From a fancy or exotic seafood that has been preserved in a can many times with other flavoring agents added Well, that’s not to say that there aren’t delicious cans of canned salmon and canned tuna, but we’re not talking about, like, chicken of the sea, starfish. That’s another, I would almost consider that another food category. I agree entirely. Completely from, like, the tinfish craze that we’re handling. That’s canned fish. Canned fish. This is tinned fish. That’s a really, that’s a great point. Right? Yeah. So now there’s this big movement of people, like, spending a fair amount of money. Yeah. I mean, uh, what is it? A fishwife variety pack. I think it’s like six cans for 72. That’s expensive. 12 bucks for a tin of fish. But I’m saying it’s now become a luxury thing, which is really interesting because of course, the genesis of all this was, I mean, one, it was trying to get food to troops, right? Yeah. And so cans of sardines, uh, were just, you know, sent out to troops in World War Two, uh, can of sardines in like a packed factory workers lunch was super, super common back in the day. Um, but now we seem to have superseded that, but it’s almost as like ironic flip back in time. Right. So true. I think it has a lot to do with kids. Well, the way that I see it is, I think a lot of the times we were raised on like PB and J sandwiches or ham and cheese sandwiches. And the fact that we can make our own lunches and make it aesthetic, like you said, like make a little bento box and like, you can eat a can of sardines and like, I don’t know, there’s like, there’s like a level of like aesthetics and like cuteness that goes with it. And then I also think there’s another side where people are talking about eating more protein in their diets. And a can of sardines has like 20 grams of protein. I don’t think it has anything to do with the protein. Well, that’s why I eat it. That’s why I started eating sardines more recently. It’s because they’re an easy source of protein. And they don’t taste bad. I used to think they tasted bad, but I think I’m 31 now. And I’m okay with eating sardines. I don’t think this has anything to do with convenience anymore. I don’t think it has anything to do with nutrition anymore. No, not, no, this has to do simply With Instagram? With hot girl aesthetics, right? I think this is like post ironic Uh, what is it? Dimesquare, like Dimes? Well, I don’t know what Dimesquare is. The hot girls wearing the Harley Davidson thrifty, thrifted VSCO girls? Like, no, but this is post that, right? This is now like the Gen Z, post ironic, I’m wearing a 90’s band t shirt, um, that I’ve never seen. Uh, you know, uh, not to put, not to name any co workers, but someone was wearing a tool crop top in our kitchen. Well, no, I, and that’s fine, that’s fine, because I know if you say that, if you ask, hey, if you actually listen to that band, then you’re like the worst person in the world. I have a rule that I don’t wear shirts of bands unless I actually know their music. That’s my rule. I think the tinned fish craze is somehow connected to ironic 90s, late 90s nu metal band t shirts. Like Deftones? Correct. I think they’re same, I’m dead serious. Wait for me. The Deftone girlies are eating tinned fish. Correct. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Absolutely. Okay. But can you break that down because you’re around a lot more like hot girls than I am. And I don’t mean hot girls as in like, I find them physically attractive, I mean The hot girls I hang out with do not enjoy tinned fish. No, no, the hot girls I’m around don’t enjoy tinned fish. They don’t. Fascinating. I’m sorry, I know I give off that vibe that I’m around those kinds of people, but I really don’t. I’m the only tinned fish enjoyer out of my hot group of girlfriends. You’re kind of currently wearing, this is like an ironic Name three songs about YouTube! Uh, Gangnam Style, Baby Shark, uh, Despacito. That’s right! That’s pretty good, that’s pretty good. What has been your favorite tinfish experience? Like, sell me on your fancy tinfish that you have really loved. Okay, so, um, recently I went to Sprouts the other day, and it was my day off, and I’m like, I am going to be the coolest stay at home mother of none right now. And so I literally bought one can of Fishwife Preserve Lemon. It’s sardines and preserved lemons. And And I’m like, okay, I’ve never tried this before. It was, it was like 11 and I’m like, oh, fine, I’ll spend 11 and then I also bought some anchovies from another company. I was like, oh, the can looks cute. Whatever. I’ll just get it because I use a lot of anchovies when I cook. But I was like, I’m going to have a sardine salad today. Okay. So I go home, I make myself a salad with these beautiful butter lettuce greens, I make a really beautiful, like, mayonnaise y, lemon y dressing with, like, sumac, I mandolin some radishes, I put some cornichons in there, and I had some leftover potatoes, so I almost made, like, a pseudo niçoise salad. With the preserved lemon? With the preserved lemon sardines. Shoot. And I just ate it. ate this salad and I’m, and I was sitting in my balcony and I’m like, this is what life is about. Like, this is what life should be. I should be able to do this every single day of my life. Eat salad with sardines at a balcony. I think one, that sounds beautiful. Doesn’t it? And I love this stay at home mother of none. And I, was with my kitties. I have this obsession with like trying to make nostalgic foods as good as possible, right? That’s kind of the, this behind shows like fancy fast food that we do. Where it’s like, I love the Western bacon cheeseburger from Carl’s Jr. Who doesn’t? I think it’s, it’s iconic. I love that. One of the best like architectured burgers in history. And then you ask yourself, what if you use the best possible bacon, the best possible ingredients for barbecue sauce and try and do that. Right. I think the tin fish thing for me, Because I have enjoyed it. I don’t mean to poo poo it here. There are 10 fishes that I’ve had that are like utterly spectacular And I will do stuff like I’ll make a tuna melt or a tuna melt, you know sort of Form with a really good tinned fish and it had something very different right in a way the best tinned fish I’ve ever had is from fish wife. Mm hmm, and it was a collab which this is all It’s like crossover events. It was like when Audio Slave was formed after Chris Cornell, R. I. P. I visited his grave this past week, actually. Oh my god, I was listening to him on the way to work today. I was listening to, uh, Doesn’t Remind Me of Anything on the way to work today. You know, Chris Cornell, boom, hooking up with the band from Rage Against the Machine. Tom Morello going, Whap! Whap! On like a stone. Incredible. That was this tin of fish for me. It was Fly by Jing and Fish Wife. This isn’t sponsored by Fishwife, by the way. No, it’s not. No, but they’re responsible. They’re the epitome of hot girl tin fish. They’re the epitome of Hyper Bowl. Is it epitome? No, I’m kidding. Anyways, uh, they are, yeah, like you said, they’re the epitome of, like, the hot girl tin fish movement, because they have really aesthetic cans, and they make a really premium product. Really delicious. Uh, and they understand their branding, they understand their audience, which is why when they collabed with the hottest chili crisp maker, Flyby Jing. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Hot smoked salmon with chili crisp, tucked in a can, and it’s not like the same as if I were to have just taken smoked salmon and mixed it with chili crisp because it all infuses in there. It infuses the oils in there. It was almost candied, right? It was almost, yeah. It was just like, God, super sweet and nutty, but aromatic, firm, spicy. Yeah, I get it. That was the tinned fish that made me believe in all 10 fishes. And I, you know, whipped it up with a little bit of mayonnaise, had some, I don’t know, like a Fontina or something that wasn’t gonna be too salty and overpower the smoke cheese and fish is an incredible combo. I made a little freaking salmon tuna melt with it and it ruled, but similar thing with like, But here’s an ultra premium ingredient that rules. Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. You know, I’ve been seeing a lot on the internet. People have been, have you seen this where people light paper towels over their tinned fish to smoke it? No. Have you never seen, we actually did this ourselves. Lily V and I made a TikTok where we literally lit a fish. a paper towel on fire over the oil of some anguillas, which we can talk about anguillas after this, but it literally like it’s like this slow burn and I don’t know, I don’t know if it’s safe. I’m going to be honest with you. You’re just lighting paper towels. Yeah, we’re lighting paper towels on fire and then consuming the food that is inside of the tin that the paper towel was burning over the top. But to be fair, paper towels are just wood bleached wood pulp. I didn’t know what paper towels were. Oh, you didn’t? No. I taught you something today? Yeah. Wow, look at me. But yeah, we did that. And let me just say, the virality of this video. Thing of lighting paper towels on top of tinned fish has also made it incredibly popular too for the algorithm That’s all I wanted to say It’s not that I dislike Deftones sure, but there’s like a couple other bands that like I don’t know any Deftones song I want to um My own summer also known as shove it shove it shove it shove it coal chamber Why I feel like more people should care about coal chamber Uh, more people should care about snot. You know, snot by snot? Of course I do. SNOT! That song? Yeah, of I told you, of course I do. It’s a good song. Um, I got a question about the tinfish movement. Oh, but can you tell people about Anguillus before you Oh, Anguillus. Anguillus are This is Josh’s favorite tinfish, or the one he likes to talk about most. It’s my favorite tinfish, or the one I like to talk about most. Uh, mostly because They were featured in the season two finale by chef Ilan Hall of Top Chef. He broke them out and they are tiny baby eels from Spain. Um, I think we mentioned them once on a tick tock and someone said that they’re bad for the environment. I don’t know about all that, but they’re like, we’ve got to apologize. Oops. I don’t think it’s the biggest deal in the world. Uh, but anyways, they’re baby eels and they’re like tiny, tiny, tiny. They’re the size of like little maggots. And, uh, you can see pinworms. It looks like pinworms. You see the little eyeballs, and that’s it. It’s an eyeball and a slightly translucent thing of flesh. Right. It’s like the size of a grain of rice. You put it on some toast, some crusty bread, olive oil, and eat it. And like, they’re pretty good. I liked it. I don’t like the world. We had it together. Yeah, they sell imitation anguillus as well. Nice. Which is just like, ceremy that they’ve sort of riced up to be the size of anguillus. And then they put little eyes on them, like beep beep. But it’s very expensive, and you and I went to a restaurant. We went to Salty Girl. And to Salty Girl. Salty Girl is, it has a wine list of tinned fish. Like, all the regions broken out, all the types of fish. There’s probably a hundred different tins of fishes. It is really cool, but we got three tinned fishes, probably all at an average like 35. Which is highway robbery. Highway robbery. We were balling. We were balling. We were having a good time. We were having a good time. Sometimes we’re gonna spend money, Josh. You know, drinking a little bit. It’s a part of life. We all shared a single bowl of clam chowder, um, did any of the, do you remember the tinfishes that we had? I don’t. And what they tasted like? I don’t remember anything from that night. I remember we went up to the House of the Hollywood Hills, that’s all I remember. And I just kept asking for Crayshon to be played. But what I’m saying is like, I don’t think even had you been entirely sober, I don’t think you would have remembered any of them. They were all somewhat unmemorable bites, and they were served with like a fun little Herb salad and grilled bread and little pickled thingy things. That was fun. Yeah, I remember that part. But to me like I would, I am never again paying for a restaurant markup on tin fish like that. I don’t think I will again. I don’t think I will again unless it’s like A special occasion. What special, like Arbor Day? What do you mean? Jacques Cousteau’s birthday? Like if someone’s like, oh, like The Gordon Fisherman died? Someone’s like, oh, for my birthday, I want to have like a tinned fish birthday. You’re the only one that would do that. You just established that. You’re the only friend who would do that. Are you planning on doing that? Maybe. My birthday’s May 28th. Don’t forget it. But maybe it’s, I mean like, hmm, that’s right. If I do go out with, yeah, no, I’m just being crazy. Don’t listen to me. I’m just being a silly, goofy girl. I don’t know. Um, how much do you think the advertising of tinned fish not only affects you, but also has affected a soul? 100%. Almost a thousand percent. Almost a hundred percent. Tell them about fish wife’s aesthetic. It’s beautiful. Fish wife’s, fish wife’s beautiful frickin containers did not have those wispy things and they didn’t look like tattoos from like the 1904, like sailor tattoos. They look like Americana tattoos. They do. Like. Is that what they’re called? I think there’s like a style. It’s like American classic or something. Yeah, American classic. Like pin up girl style. As someone who watches a lot of, um, what’s that show with Dave Navarro? Oh, like Ink Masters. As someone who watches a lot of Ink Master when she’s like, uh, doing her makeup in the mornings. I don’t watch it. I just listen to it. Let me tell you, the packaging sells me every single time. It does, I don’t even care what’s in it half of the time. It’s the packaging that really sells me. You’re listening to Ink Master’s reruns while doing your makeup? It’s just, it’s just nice to listen to in the background. Isn’t most of the value seeing their tattoos? Yeah, sometimes I glance over. I like, you know, you know, I’m like, I’m like, I’m like mid eyeliner and I’m like, How long have you been doing this? Years, like two years. You’re telling me that every morning you wake up and you just listen to Dave Navarro. Not every morning. Excellent host, he’s an excellent host. Not every, I also listen to Dead Meat. What do you mean? I have something, I need to have something to do. Uh, there’s actually a fascinating history behind designing canned fishes. Oh really? Uh, which is incredible. A lot of the canned fish stuff started in the late 19th century in Portugal or all along Iberia. And when we think of Tin fish. We think a lot of Portugal in Spain. Me and you do. Yes. You know, and we all think of tin fish. When you think of tin fish, you probably think of chicken in the sea. Um, but in like the 1920s, there was one like advertising visual artist dude in Portugal that started designing custom labels for fish canneries. Which is really rad and so it kind of became known for the style and a lot of fish wife’s products kind of harken back To that and you’ll still see that all across Europe with these older brands. Yeah Ortiz has really beautiful It’s like yellow and it has like a little sailship, right? Yeah. Yeah, Ortiz is great if tinfish is of the moment in 2024 right now and sales are projected to rise like north of 10 billion dollars going into like the 2030s But there’s gonna be something else. I know what it is to replace it. What is it potted meat potted meat? Bring it back. What’s your favorite potted meat? I don’t have one yet. Not yet, not Hormel corned beef. I’ve never let me tell you I haven’t delved into it because it’s scawy It scares me. Do you actually think potted? I don’t think potted meat is actually gonna be. I think if it’s sold the right way Anything is possible. I think if you slap the right label on it, anything is possible I think maybe like liver pates could come back. Well, isn’t that like potted meat? It’s like potted meat but potted Oh, oh, yeah, I guess you’re right because you could do like, um What’s that one thing that I don’t really like? The one that always tastes like tuna salad even though it’s made from pork? Rillettes. Rillettes. I love rillettes. You could do, like, yeah, charcuterie. Because that’s what, like, the stuff we’re talking about, right? Like, you would go to a fancy restaurant, and you would get some sort of smoked trout marinated in chili oil, blah, blah, blah, served with stuff. But then now they’re doing that, and they’re putting it into cans. Yeah. Things you also used to get at fancy restaurants. People just simply aren’t going out as much. I think that’s nice. You know why we saw canned fish really blow up during the pandemic and then people kind of realize, Oh, I can sit in my home a lot more and do stuff like that. Um, entire charcuterie board stuff just tucked in a can. Maybe people are going to start, you know, doing their own sausages. People are doing that whole homesteader thing. Do you? People like make their own sourdough now. Damn. People like, like to make their own cookies with sourdough discard and whatnot. Maybe people are going to start making their own like saloom, saloomy in their house. Not even making, I’m saying like brands that could do it really well. Yeah, make it cool. And marketed that. I feel like I would be very liable to buy that. You don’t buy salami in your house, do you? No, but I’m not even saying salami, like, I’m saying stuff like, uh, a liver pâté. Yeah, it’s possible. But in a can, so it’s cool, you design the cans all nice, you have an anthropomorphic pig on there. You know, it’s kind of like cutting out its own belly. Oh, oh, that’s an obese ad. I know, I think it’s cool. But I do think, I think potted meat and liver pâtés will probably make a comeback. I think we need to make canned vegetables cool again. I Don’t see that happening. But like, you can do cool stuff with canned vegetables that you couldn’t do. What do you mean it’s expensive? I’m saying like, people would, the markup for the canned vegetables being fancified a la Fish Wife, I don’t see that. You don’t think people would spend money on vegetables, but you do see them spending money on fish. Yes, I do. Yes, I do. Because I think fish can be seen as like, almost a luxury to some people. It’s, it’s really interesting how, Canned tuna is so cheap. It is. Right? For the amount of like protein and nutrients and fish flesh that you’re getting, it’s so incredibly cheap. It’s shocking that Fish Wife, and there’s other brands, I’ve just been, Fish Wife has been my Roman Empire for quite a minute now. But like they were able to take a product that was incredibly cheap and then just like really make it expensive Without people completely dropping off and going like hey, that’s canned fish. That should be cheap. Sure It’s incredibly turned something that was commodity to luxury. Yeah. Have you ever seen the glass bottle tunas, dude? How do you feel about glass bottle? Oh man last glass bottle tuna. I had was really good, dude I know I buy it on sale There’s a big quality difference. I swear. It’s like night and day Damn, like the thick, like you can literally take the tuna out of the glass and it’s like you see the actual like flakes of fish Whenever you get the loins, the kind of hole, the thin slices. It’s gorgeous. Whenever you get the canned stuff Sometimes it’s just like mush. It’s pulverized mush Doesn’t really doesn’t really hit the same like I would feel comfortable putting a glass tuna out on like a board like a food board Like not a charcuterie board, but like a tinned fish board I’d feel comfortable doing that, but I wouldn’t do that with like, Starkist or whatever. Should we throw a tinfish party? I think it’s only fair. Maggie, would you come? Of course. We should do that. I think, I think the problem is, is I haven’t fully leaned into it. Because I’m obviously tinfish curious, right? Okay. I’ve had like, meaningful tinfish experiences, but I don’t know if I’m, you know, really, ready to go all the way in. You know? Uh, I just think I need to like really dive in fully into the deep end of this tinfish thing. I mean, V, Lily, and I, whenever we have an extra can of tinfish, we go absolutely feral for it. Like gargoyles come to life. Truly, you should see, we get bread, we get lemons, we get We get whatever we have, and Calabrian chilis, and crackers, and we go ham, and it’s the best, and we eat with our hands, it’s feral, and it’s, you can come next time. I would love that. You’re invited. Um, what are your top couple favorite tinned fishes? Like in terms of the actual animal that they tin, because there’s a lot that they’re doing out there. terrible like tinned uni. Don’t know why that exists. Um, tinned razor clams just taste like rubber bands to me. They’re so tough. But what are like the good things to tin and the bad things to tin? I think anchovies are great to tin. I love, I love eating them. I eat them out of the jar. And those are heavily salt cured, right? Yes, yes, yes. Salt cured ones. I don’t like the bocorenos. Boquerones. I don’t love boquerones that much. I like the really salty, oily, like, like. Blackish dark one. Yeah, Boca Ronas are like fresher and whole and they’re meatier which some people like but to be honest I just love that salty oily umami anchovy flavor paired with like a cracker or like a piece of cheese or something like that Yeah, so I love anchovies I love mackerel, canned mackerel. I love there’s this great one. I forgot the brand of it. Mackerel keeps the skin on. I love it. Mackerel you can eat the bones too, which is fun. Yeah. I love mackerel. I got this and I don’t even know what brand it was. It was like a Mediterranean mackerel with olives and like tomato and sun dried tomato. I don’t even like sun dried tomatoes, but sun dried tomatoes, olives, oregano, really good quality olive oil. That was great. And then honestly, I just love that lemon preserve sardine that I had. I still think about it and I’m like, do I really want to spend 11, 12 on this? Yes I do. So that’s probably my other favorite. Canned? I had a really great canned smoked oyster the other day. I’ve never actually had a canned oyster before. Or smoked oyster. You know what I think what Tinfish needs to accomplish? is it has to be something that can like only be done in a tin. Because otherwise, like, you get a can of tuna. If we’re talking about superseding the idea of convenience into luxury, right? Because convenience, I don’t have to buy a tuna filet and cook it and chill it and shred it, whatever. I can buy a can of that, open it, mix it with mayonnaise, slap it on bread. That’s convenience. And it’s like delicious enough, right? But with like the fancy tin fish, this needs to be something like I can’t do on my own. It only can happen in a tin. I see what you’re saying. So something like Tinned smoked oysters are incredible, because you get a smoked oyster that like, is sort of dehydrated from the smoke. And then you pop that in a can with oil, with flavorings, and it creates just like, this perfect, shmearable thing that you can put on bread, that is unlike any other experience. That’s a purely unique experience. It’s not just I need to have it. Like a fancy, you know, anchovy or whatever from a different region in Spain. Sure. There’s been like craft and strategy into this camp. I really want to try I’ve never tried like smoked shellfish. I think I’ve only tried fish. I’ve never had the luxury of trying You weren’t gobbling down the cockles at Salty Grill when you weren’t there? Oh yeah, I had cockles! We were all gobbling cockles that day. Oh my god. The cockles were really good. The gobbling of the cockles, my god. The cockles were We went on a cockle gobbling rampage We really were I just flashback. Those were like brined nicely. They they weren’t like like typical tinned in oil They were like brined and it was good, right? Did you enjoy it? It was chewy, it was a little chewy, right? Chewy for me like canned clams are really Common and you make a clam chowder at home you dump in a can of clams, but it’s never actually good The canned clams are never actually good. They’re always too Well, I don’t again like I don’t I don’t go searching for clam chowder the way that you think I would i’m, sorry I am i’m different now Like you said you’re a seafood girlie. Like i’m also i’m more of an untinned fish girl I think i’m i’m telling you i’m a seafood girl But i’m not the biggest tinned fish girl Like I like tell them what we did like last like last week or last month When we went to eat oysters by the beach. Oh my god, we went to the greatest place in the history of the earth. We were up in Napa for the Cookbook Fest, which is a fantastic event. Josh’s fiancé was there too. My fiancé was there too. I was there reeling. Yeah, we were all there. It felt right. Uh, Nicole made it weird by saying that. It wasn’t weird, it’s the truth. We took this incredibly romantic drive up the coast to Tomales Bay I was in the back. It was called The Marshall Store. And we got a dozen raw oysters. You can see them dragging in oysters from Tomales Bay It’s right next to another famous spot called Hog Cabin. But I like The Marshall Store. And then we got 6 barbecued Oysters Rockefeller. With the spinach, and with the cheese, and then we got six, what were they called? Oysters Kilpatrick. Oysters Kilpatrick. They were, they like changed, I think that was like one of the best things I’ve had this year. Barbecued with Worcestershire and bacon, and they served it with crusty grilled garlic bread. And you take the barbecued fresh, fresh oyster, with the Worcestershire on it, and you just take the bread and you smear it on, you get the oyster liquor on the bread, and you And we got, oh my god, we got that lovely sparkling Albarino. Oh my god, that was really nice. So good. Right? Everyone goes through champagne. No, I’ll give you a sparkling Albarino. It was dry. It was crisp. Same thing. 11 a. m. That’s right. We had that salad. The smoked salmon salad. Smoked salmon salad. We were living. It was smoked trout. Smoked steelhead trout salad. I’m so sorry. I’m sorry. But the point is like Seafood, fresh seafood, it’s one of the most beautiful things on earth, right? That was one of my favorite meals I’ve ever had. Do you think if we had like an, an, a set, a melange of tinned fish that would, um, expand our experience or miniaturize our experience? Oh, that, yeah. If they had it. I think it would have taken away from the experience. Because that’s like one of the things about seafood, right? Is that it’s, it’s so much better fresh. It really is better fresh. Tinned seafood, right? Convenience, all that. But we’ve now superseded the idea of convenience in society. We’re post history, right? We’re at the point where you can get sushi in the desert. That’s really high quality due to deep freezes and all that. So I guess that might be like my only initial issue with tinned fish. Again, you’re making a different product when you smoke it and you preserve it and yada yada, but like nothing is going to beat just raw oyster fresh out the bay. A raw oyster versus a smoked oyster. Let me tell you, I’ve never had a smoked oyster, but I’m going to pick the raw oyster almost every single time. We gotta answer the question, is tinned fish overrated? Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. We have not reached the inflection point. Nope, not yet. We’re almost there though. We’re at the apex. Anything can happen. Again, I think we’re seeing, we’re seeing a bunch of the tinfish curious climb up to the ledge and decide if they really want to take the plunge. Right. And I think we haven’t reached that point yet, but we’re definitely rising to it. Can’t wait. And I’m curious to see where it goes. And until then, we’re, we’re banking on potted meat, 2030. That’s right. Coming to town. We should start our own dude. I don’t think we’re allowed to. Nicole. What’s up, buddy? I got a trip coming up. Where are you going? Five days across the island of Sardinia. Stop! No way! I know nothing about Sardinia. I’ve never been to Italy at all. I took one semester of Italian in college and had roommates that were from Italy for a couple months, but I’ve completely lost any language. But I really want to at least be able to do the basics. I want to be able to ask for a check, ask for directions, order the food, and also learning a new language is just great for personal development. Well, that’s where Rosetta Stone comes in! Rosetta Stone is the most trusted language learning program. It’s available on desktop or as an app, and it truly immerses you in the language you want to learn. Yeah, I wasn’t too good in classrooms. But, Rosetta Stone has a built in true accent feature that gives you feedback on your pronunciation. 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Visit rosettastone. com slash hotdog. That’s 50 percent off unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your life. Redeem your 50 percent off at rosettastone. com slash hotdog today. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you’re anything like me, your schedule is packed with social gatherings, big work projects, and so much more. It’s easy to let your priorities slip. It’s tough to juggle at times. But when you feel like you have no time for yourself, non negotiables like therapy are more important than ever. I personally take time once every two weeks to talk to my therapist, to really ground myself, and Have someone to bounce ideas off of. I also do the same thing. For me, non negotiable number one, gym. Gotta blast the metal music while getting all the energy out of your body. But then two, also therapy. I’ve also become a bi weekly therapy guy. And honestly, BetterHelp was a huge part of me starting therapy. Because I’m someone who really struggles to, like, book appointments. But the fact that there was an app, that I could literally just click with my thumbs until I was finally connected to a therapist. I’ve been waiting, like, years. to start therapy, but I kept putting it off until BetterHelp. Therapy isn’t just for those who’ve experienced major trauma, it empowers you to be the best version of yourself, no matter your background. If you’re thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It’s entirely online, it’s designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and switch therapists anytime for no additional charge. Never skip therapy day with BetterHelp! Visit betterhelp. com slash hotdog today to get 10 percent off your first month. That’s betterhelp, H E L P dot com slash hotdog. Well alright, Nicole! We’ve heard what you and I have to say. Now it’s time to find out whether whack yetis are rattling out there in the universe. It’s time for a little segment we call Opinions are like casserole! You always rag my coattails, why don’t you let me shine? Just let a woman judge. Uh, opinion. Opinions are like casseroles. Was that so hard? Do you want to do another take? No. No? You’re satisfied with that? That was your, what you consider to be your best effort. Don’t laugh, Meggie! Don’t laugh! Before we get to opinions are like casseroles, which as we all know is people’s third favorite segment, we’re going to jump straight to your fifth favorite segment, which is called Review a Review. This is where we try and bait you into writing more positive reviews on Apple Reviews, which might Help the podcast. We don’t exactly know how. This one is written by Akachandice, and they gave us five stars. They said, great podcast, comma, great hosts. In each episode, you’re guaranteed to laugh, be entertained, and learn something new about food science or history. One of my favorite podcasts. I give this a three and a half. Stop being so obsessed with us. Uh, three and a half as well, but this sounds like it was written by an AI bot that I programmed to write a positive review once every three weeks. No, but really, thank you so much. We appreciate it. It means a lot. Still, you’re getting only 3. 5 stars. Hey Josh and Nicole, it’s Alex. I’m from Tucson, Arizona. And my hot take is that no one really likes candy canes. The peppermint candy canes. Does anyone actually eat them? I don’t think so. I do enjoy the other flavors. Like they have Sour Patch and Skittles and all these other flavored candy canes. But the peppermint ones? No. Thank you. Bye. Yeah, someone’s propping up the peppermint candy cane industry. Oh, interesting. Well, I like how you can whittle it into a shiv with your mouth. It’s one of the best stabbing candies. What that mouth do? Make a shiv out of candy canes. And it does. I’ve seen it. Uh, a great stabbing candy, a pretty bad eating candy. I just, but the thing is, I love peppermint things. Like I’ve always loved like little peppermints, like the little pillowy, you know, the little pillowy ones that you get from the MGM Grand. The buttermints. I’ve never been to the MGM Grand. That’s a weird reference. That’s the only place I’ve ever had them. I love them. The ones that you can crunch there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They’re so, and they’re just like, Mmm, I love that. I love little, the little pinwheels. What about the starlight mints? The ones that are the sort of, uh, no, they’re like the red and white ones with the stripes. Yeah, I was saying the round ones. Yeah, the round ones. Yeah, I like those. Well, that’s the thing. Here’s the thing. Round things can fit in your mouth pretty easily. Yeah. At that size. Yeah, yeah. This long cane structure. It’s one of the worst structures to try and eat. I know, but it’s, it’s meant for hanging on. The mantle with your little stocking. That’s great. Don’t make it edible. Make, make enough inedible candy cane shaped and colored things out of plastic, hang them on your tree and then never eat them again. They’re, they don’t need to exist. I agree with that. But it’s so fun. You can go like, ah, it’s funny. Yeah. You can fish hook your own mouth with a candy. Again, none of this is appealing as far as something to consume on Christmas. I, I just listed, I listed. Two fun things to do with it. That’s pretty good. That’s pretty good. I feel like we made the sour candy canes and it’s like give me something I can fit in my mouth, you know I what are we doing here? I agree. I think that we’re um built a ziggurat on false promises Okay, you sound like the Grinch Sorry, Jim Carrey. I did an excellent portrayal Hello, my name is Les from Cedar Rapids Island, home of the Crutchberry, uh, my hot take is that all melons, and anything that tastes like melons, is a terrible time. They all taste like crunchy rotten water. Watermelon, honey melon, or honeydew, see I don’t even know what they’re called. Kiwi, cucumber, it’s all trash. Maybe cucumbers are melons. Crunchy rotten water. Bye bye. Love the show. My guy doesn’t like fruits. My guy got a mellifluous voice, though. What a gorgeous voice. You should do voice overs. What are you doing calling us? You should be calling all the agents in Los Angeles and Hollywood, baby! Nicole will make you a big star. You have to be willing to do anything. I’ll make you a star, baby, you know? I should bring back the candy canes, but I decided against it. Yeah, no more talking about candy canes. Melons! Cucumbers, kiwis. I think those are all different things. I just think he doesn’t like fruit. I think he doesn’t like fruits, but no, melons do have a specific. When he talks about like tasting like kind of dirty water. Um, roll rot water. I like the rot water. I would bet that you probably don’t like papayas either. Papayas also have these tropical fruits that like produce ethylene. That’s quickly. They give you the dead bite. His durian is the, that’s a very equatorial fruit. Yeah. I like all those. Some people, you might be a super taster, you might be someone who has a very sensitive, uh, olfactory, uh, senses. Right. Um, which would cause you to not want that, but I love when I bite into a sweet melon and I get that little rotten corpse flavor. I think it tastes delicious. And I love melon, like, ice cream bars. Have you read them from the Japanese market? I love, I love little mandolin, um, mandolin, little, um, melon fizzy candies that are, Also from the Asian market. I just like melon flavored things all the time. The honeydew flavor at Yogurtland is maybe my favorite flavor of all time. I love It’s been a long time since I’ve had it. Love melons. There’s nothing better than a ripe honeydew and there’s nothing harder to find in the world than a ripe honeydew. Well, I wouldn’t say honeydew’s the best, but also I was raised in a cantaloupe home. Like my mom would, like, this is how my mom showed her love. She would literally chop up cantaloupes and then she would make little bite sections for me. to eat the cantaloupes. Incredible. Isn’t that cute? Like, she would like, it would literally like, she would be like, Nicole, look. Bloop! And then I would just laugh and laugh. What was it like to feel the love of a mother? It’s great. It’s great. Sorry. Sorry. Now I feel bad. What’s that? What? There’s some new, new sugar kiss melons. Those are great. Go out there. Try it. Give, give melons an earnest chance, I say. Hey, uh, Josh, Nicole. Just recently found your podcast. Um, thanks for stopping by. I just wanted to say, I got two words for you. Buffalo. Chicken Alfredo. Sorry, my uh, My Danny DeVito isn’t quite on point. But that was Danny DeVito? Anyway, uh, thanks. That was the best Danny DeVito impression I’ve ever heard. Was it? Or at least the third best Tommy DeVito impression I’ve ever heard. I don’t know Tommy DeVito. Tommy DeVito started a couple games for the New York Giants. And he played his football, I believe it, Syracuse. He may have transferred to Illinois, but anyways. Italian American kid and this is the best part about the story is he grew up like eight miles from the giant stadium So he literally lived at home with his mom nice because quote she made the best chicken cutlets Yeah, why wouldn’t and then he commuted to his professional football quarterback job? There’s nothing wrong with that and I love that Tommy DeVito American hero I’m sure he was saving his money to buy him and his mother a nice place later. Absolutely. I like that now We gotta talk about Buffalo Chicken Alfredo. Yum! Give me that! Yum yum, eat it up! Give me that all day, every day, three times a day! I think we need to completely divorce ourselves from any Italian food traditions. Okay. Right. Go ahead. Pasta. Like, I, I heard somebody the other day go like, I would die for cacio e pepe. And it’s like, cacio e pepe? Would you? I don’t think they would. I think they’re bluffing. I think they’re bluffing. I wouldn’t die for any food dish. Eh, carne asada burrito, San Diego style. I’d die for it. Like, die for it? I’d lay down my life. Yeah. Oh, you know, my priorities have changed. Just a little. No, but you know what I mean? Like these pasta dishes, like chicken fettuccine Alfredo, they’re good. I love chicken. And they have nothing to do with, nothing to do with Italian food. I know Alfredo was technically invented in Rome, yada, yada. But not the kind that we make and especially you take buffalo sauce, which is just acid heat and like cream and fat Right and you put that on the chicken it plays with everything It cuts through the starch it gives some zing to the protein That is absolutely incredible I would make a buffalo chicken alfredo and I would like toast up some garlicky breadcrumbs and i’d put that on top Almost giving it like a half a chicken cut like kind of vibe Mix that throughout the pasta. Maybe put some parsley chives in there lighten it up a little bit Uh I would love to eat whatever you just said, but I would probably do it a little bit differently, but that’s okay. Do we think, though, that buffalo Alfredo is better than Cajun Alfredo. Cause Cajun Alfredo. Yes. Why? Because of the acid. Yeah. The acid, the acid and the tang. The spice needs the acid. Marries with the sauce of the, the Alfredo sauce and the starch of the pasta. And it’s just perfect. I truthfully, now, you know, I don’t love Cajun Alfredo. What? I don’t love it. I thought I knew you. You don’t know anything about me. I, I don’t know. I think Buffalo. And you know what I would do to make it a little bit crazy? I would add a little bit of Hidden Valley Ranch packet to my alfredo. Oh, shoot, dude. Oh my god. That’s what I would do. You do a little like brunoise of pickled carrot and celery. That’s what I would do. That’s what I would do. Crazy old me. I would add half a packet of the Hidden Valley Ranch seasoning packet to the alfredo. And then I would take my chicken and I would fry the ever living F out of it. Maybe with corn flakes because I’m crazy. Chop it up and then just like squiggle, squiggle sauce. And then just put like a crap ton of chives on the top, and then a little bit of, like, I almost want to shave carrots on it, I almost want to shave carrots on it. Shoot, shoot, shoot, I’d take 12 pounds of chicken bones, right? Not the meat, the meat you’re gonna feed the bones, you’re gonna roast off, you’re gonna turn that into stock, you’re gonna reduce that stock to about a quarter. That’s gonna get you a chicken demi. You take that chicken demi, you pop that in a saucepan, you deglaze it with a little bit of cream, you toss the pasta in there, finish with a little bit of, uh, Sweet Baby Ray’s new buffalo sauce. Not Sweet Baby Ray’s barbecue sauce, Sweet I like that one. I like that take all the skin from all that, the meat and the bones that you removed, and you’re gonna take that stuff, skin. You’re gonna lay it out flat. You’re gonna put that in a low oven until it crisps up. You’re gonna take that. You’re gonna blitz it, Nicole, with a little bit of panko and a little bit of parmesan frico. You’re gonna add those breadcrumbs on top of that chicken jus with a little bit of that confit in the buffalo pasta. Boom. That sounds pretty good. So passionate So intense. That was really intense. I’m also really hungry. I want to make dinner white chocolate is better. Yes Yes, is that it? I agree. I love white chocolate white chocolate is well I don’t know about better, but I think white chocolate needs more respect than it gets white chocolate tastes so good And it’s like do you do you think white chocolate is chocolate? I don’t know if you’ve ever talked about Yes, we did. Yeah, we did. No, we didn’t. Yeah, we did. We did it as white chocolate. We did it as chocolate candy, certainly. I don’t think we ever did it as white chocolate. we, well, we’ve definitely had a tangent or two, if we haven’t had an actual podcast. I think white chocolate, as someone who’s worked at a chocolate store, white chocolate’s definitely freaking chocolate. Yeah, I agree. It’s It’s the same form. It doesn’t have the actual what? Like cacao. That’s okay. Liquor in it or something. That’s okay. That’s okay. And it doesn’t taste like cacao. Certainly. It doesn’t have to taste like cacao. It tastes like white chocolate and it’s so good. I agree entirely. Mm. Yeah. And I think it’s versatile and I think you can use it. You make like a white chocolate ganache and you can sort of like flavor it with anything you want. No, I don’t agree with cinnamon and a white chocolate ganache. Uh, I don’t have a little cinnamon ganache. I don’t love, no, I just like white chocolate, like a bar of white chocolate. A good one. It’s so much better than milk chocolate, it’s so much better than dark chocolate. I like white chocolate as an ingredient, not as like a plain eating thing. But I don’t just like eat chocolate plain ever. I never just like want to eat plain chocolate. I love using it in things. I like plain chocolate. I love chocolate. We’ll drizzle on a homemade Rice Krispie. I did a little white chocolate ganache, mixed some matcha powder in there, drizzled that. Drizzled that on a matcha Rice Krispie with shaved pistachios on top. That’s nice. It’s a treat. That’s nice. What a treat. I like it. You ever had that cocoa, not that cocoa, the, the red berry, what is it called? Yeah, yeah, ruby chocolate. Ruby chocolate, you ever had it? It’s white chocolate. Yeah, it’s white chocolate. With like red stuff in it. Got some fun, yeah, it’s nice. Okay. I got a new cho You go. No, you go. So I got a new chocolate that’s made with, uh, dates. Oh! Have you ever had caramelized white chocolate? Yeah. I love caramelized That was a trend. I love caramelized white chocolate. That was a trend like seven, eight years ago. It’s the best. Oh, caramelized white chocolate is like, it’s like chocolate and caramel, but not like the one, not like how I’m describing it. It’s like, it’s like unexpected. One time I made a white, caramelized white chocolate gelato. Golly! My god, bring it back bring back caramelized white chocolate. Let’s do it You just put the chips on a baking sheet and I remember making it and I remember you put in the oven And it bakes and you smear it around and then it starts to get a little color. You smear it two more times Yeah Damn. Yeah. You know what? Have you ever had leche camada ice cream? Yeah. Okay. Leche camada ice cream with, imagine this, leche camada ice cream with caramelized white chocolate ganache on the top. So leche camada is a scorched milk. Yes. Or smoked milk. Damn. Yeah, I want to eat that right now. A little salt in there? Yeah, a little salt. Okay. Well, thanks so much for stopping by our podcast, The Hot Dog and Sandwich. We got new episodes out on audio platforms every Wednesday, new videos out every Sunday. And, Nicole, tell them what to call. If you want to be featured on Opinions Are Like Casseroles, give us a call at 833 DOG POD 1. Our number again is 833 DOG POD 1. That’s 833 DOG POD 1. And if you like watching us on a little device, like an iPhone, or maybe you could be watching on a smart fridge, you can do more of that on our YouTube channel, Mythical Kitchen, where we make funny little cooking videos and stuff. I want a tv in my bathroom. I want a tv on the bottom of my bathtub. I want a tv right in front of my face. I want to put a giant tv above my bed so that way when, never mind.