I support chef’s rights. Oh yeah. But I also support chef’s wrongs, if you know what I mean. This is a hot dog is a sandwich. Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah. I put ice in my cereal. So what? That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. What? Welcome to our podcast. A Hotdog is a Sandwich. The show we break down the world’s biggest food debates. I’m your host, Josh Scherer. And I’m your host Nicole Enayati. And I also support chefs wrongs. Doesn’t that feel good to kind of do that gross hand motion while going, ha ha, ha ha. No, I actually hate rubbing my hands together. What if you stuck out your tongue a little bit? Like how. That didn’t feel good for you? I don’t like being malicious or evil. I don’t think it’s malicious or evil. I think it’s like a, this is an evil, malicious hand movement. No, it’s like an F boy thing. It’s like an F boy thing. If you F boys are evil and malicious, I wouldn’t say evil and malicious. I’d say maligned for sure. With our priorities, but that’s not what we’re talking about today. No, no, no. We are talking about all of those phrases that chefs specifically on television, have told you in the past that you took as Dog Mu and Cannon, and today we’re focusing on one specific one. That’s right. That I heard every single chefs say. Me too, growing up. Ha ha ha. And that is, does Fat equal Flavor? What a great. What a great question. Does fat equal flavor? Fat equals flavor? As Rachel Ray drizzles olive oil on her canned chili pozole on herself. On herself, on the on the Evo asparagus. She evo O’ on everything. Remember fat equals flavor, her rice peel offs just drenched an extra virgin olive oil. If I had a nickel for every rice peel off, I watched Rachel Ray make 17 fricking nickels. Yeah, that’s a lot of nickel at 85 cents. That’ll get me 12 minutes of parking in Beverly Hills. You know what my problem is? I can’t do that math in my head. No. What’s wrong with me? Well, 17 times five is 85. Am I wrong? No, you’re correct. You’re probably right. It’s funny, it gave me a shiver down my back ’cause I’m really bad at. Really remedial at math. Um, fat. I think I was a gifted child. Really? I’m not surprised you were saying. Um, I think fat equals fat. Some fats have flavor, but they don’t equal the big F flavor. Break that down. When you say some fats have flavor, what are you talking about? When I think about. Well, when I was younger, my mom used to give me a, a tablespoon of olive oil at night for, I think it was for constipation reasons, but she probably said like, it’s good for your hair, skin, nails, right? Yeah. Um, so that’s what you do to like a dog to get a shiny coat. We used feed our, our boxer olive. Well, look at this lovely luscious looks. Your hair reminds me of the shininess of our boxer olives. Coat. Boxers are short hair. Yeah, but you should. Yeah. But you should see how shiny and lustrous her coat is just like your hair. Whatever. Um, he tried to compliment me by saying, I look like his former dog. Everybody in case you want, she’s dead. And Dave has a tattoo of her ’cause she’s beautiful and special. Um, I think olive oil has a distinct flavor, especially, of course, but that’s not the flavor of fat, that’s the flavor of the olive of olives. But it just so happens the fat is derived from the olives. Sure. Correct. So whenever I think of like tallow, like, does Tallow have a quote unquote beef like flavor? I would say it has a touch of beef stink to it. But I think then you’re not talking about the flavor of the fat specifically. That’s like saying it’s derived from it. So it has it honey. Like, um, honey tastes like bees. Okay, so you ever eat a bee and crunch out the honey? Never, don’t reckon that’s the way it works. But if you really break down what taste is right, so we all know like, uh, was it sweet, sour, uh, umami, bitter, umami, bitter. And. Sweet, sour, umami, bitter. What are we missing? Sweet, sour, salty. One of them. Yeah. Salty, salty, salty. God, we’re so down. I said umami, but it’s savory. So Well umami is the fifth taste, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What we’re actually talking about here is, is there a sixth taste and is that taste Fat. Fat, right? Because you can talk about the beefy flavor of tallah, which it has. Certainly peanut oil has its own flavor. Sesame oil certainly has its own flavor. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But that’s the flavor that the sesame, when you are to like ultra refine all of that out. And I think the closest we’ve gotten to. Ultra refined. Pure fat is basically vegetable oil. Right, right. Canola, they take Yeah. Canola. Um, which God, what is, yeah, so canola, rape, seeded, just answer. Yeah. Well, rape, seeded, which makes sense why they changed the name of it. Mm-hmm. Um, they still call it that in I think a lot of parts of Europe. Right. Uh, but anyways, a lot of it was grown in Canada, so canola literally means. Canadian oil, like ola, meaning oil. Are you for real? Oh, did you not know that? You just blew my fricking mind. Yeah. Yeah. That’s the origin of canola. It’s like, or Ida potatoes. Just Oregon. Idaho. Canola is just Canadian oil. Or Ida, did you not know that? What other, like what other abbreviations are you about to spew? Dude, I don’t know. Gimme one more. That was incredible. Oh God. Do I, do I have another one? I don’t. That was so good. It’s okay. No, I don’t think so. No problem. Uh, if I think of one. I’ll let you know, but like vegetable oil is ultra refined. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like does the actual fat that you are consuming have an independent flavor that we could call the sixth dimension of taste? So you’re saying in order for it to be considered on the tongue grid you’re talking about, correct. Correct, correct. It needs to be so super refined that it is just its own standalone thing like sugar. Like salt. Yeah, so like sugar, you can, you can break down, uh, like pure glucose, right? Yeah, sure. Is the, the pure form. And you can taste that. It tastes like sugar. C six, H 1206 I think is glucose. Okay. And then Nale, Nale or nale, you’re such a, depending on, on where you’re from. Um, that’s salt, right? Yeah. And then, and then what would be the refinement of umami? Would it of umami? So umami is a collection of amino acids. Mm-hmm. So there’s, God, I forgot how many amino acids are. Maybe you could Google how many amino acids there are that make up a complete protein. I’m gonna two, I’m gonna say 82. I think there’s like seven. I don’t think there’s that many. I’m gonna say. 2020 standard amino acids is somewhere in between us. But anyways, the, the flavor of umami is literally the prevalence of amino acids, which make up, or the building, bro, building bros of proteins. And then, uh, CI is citric acid would be kind of sour, sour maleic acid, right? Citric, malik, tartaric acid all contribute to, oh, that all. Oh, the, oh my God, I hurt my glands. Well, so you know your glands. Okay, think about citric acid, right? Right. Think about like a nice tart strawberry. Love it. Okay. Right. Or an orange, that citric acid. Okay. Your mouth feels good. Thinking about that, think about maleic acid. What’s your mouth thing right now? Forehead. It feels, it feels icky at the back of my. Throat, you shuttered you like you physically were repulsed by, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That is because all taste is, and this isn’t my own original thought, this is coming from a journal called Flavor. Mm-hmm. That I believe stopped being published in 2017 because you’re like, do we really need a whole journal called Flavor Sad? But anyways, they wrote a really fascinating piece on this. Where they call taste simply like a nutrient toxin detection system. Toxin. Toxin. What did you just do? Oh, my. You shuttered. My eyebrows raised. Oh, oh, sorry. When you were talking about mal acid. Yeah, I did shutter. You went, ah, and when you Yeah, my, my receptors went up. And when you think about the taste of bitter right. The taste of bitter makes you kind of recoil because that is the detection of toxins. Tny, my tongue got tny when you talked about it. Percent. Yeah. And there’s bitter taste that we now like, but your body is meant to, you know, be repulsed by toxins. Whereas citric acid Oh, interesting. Or sour is a really interesting phenomenon where the, the right amount of sourness means like the right amount of certain vitamins and nutrients. Sure. Okay. The wrong amount of sourness means like, oh, something is going wrong. Poison. Poison. It’s poison. Poison. Oh, wow. And so if we think about that simply as nutrient detection, umami. The fifth taste. Mm-hmm. Is your body wanting to get proteins and amino acids? Right, because it’s, it’s, you know, uh, you’re predisposed to want that. Uh, sugar is very obvious. Um. Fat though. Mm-hmm. Fat is like a very necessary part of development. Of development, right? Like a fat is. Your brain functions better on calories that are digest from fat. Sure. You talk about hormone regulation, eating fat is really important. Mm-hmm. Yep, yep, yep. Wouldn’t it make sense that if taste is just a nutrient toxin detection system. That we would have a detection for the actual flavor of fat. Yeah. But if it, but if our tongues don’t detect it, they’re detecting where it’s derived from Uhhuh, then I don’t, I don’t think so. ’cause I’m trying to think of, maybe it’s a carrier. Maybe it helps carry. Well, so that is certainly one theory, right? And And also we like we need to, we’re talking about a bunch of weird s sciencey jargon from like One journal Fat I found. But it’s feels super interesting. It is. But also when we’re talking about Rachel Ray saying fat is flavor, what she probably means is like fat carries flavor really well. Right, right, right. It’s the reason if you were to just put straight vinegar, salt, lemon on a salad, it’s not gonna be nearly as pleasant. As if you add olive oil to that and make it a vinegarette. Right, right, right, right, right. Because what fat does is it carries flavor, fat, increases, viscosity, increases, decreases like the flow rate of certain things. Mm-hmm. So it lingers on your palate for a long time. Right. The fat molecules bind to it and it tastes really good. Yeah. But to me, asking whether or not it’s a real flavor is interesting. Again, like you said, like the, whenever I think, have I ever taken a drink of canola oil? No, I’ve never, you never just sipped on it just to see what it’s like. I’ve never, I’ve never, I’ve never found it valuable like that. Oh, it’s incredible. But for, what does it taste like though? Um, nothing so. Well, I mean, God, what is, how, what does probably it taste like? I remember hearing, uh, somebody asked a Japanese chef, what do mommy taste like? And he just goes, it’s like the feeling of taking a sip of cold beer at the end of a long day. And you go. Ah, umami is the, ah, the point is if you, it’s not, wait, no, I totally, no, but what does umami taste like? Umami tastes like, um, my brain instantly goes to coconut aminos and soy sauce. Yeah. But like, you’re just talking about a food tasting, like you’re talking about, uh, a thing tasting like another food. So if you were to ask me what pure fat tastes like, I’d say it tastes like olive oil. It tastes like butter, it tastes like canola oil. Yeah. Right. You can’t really describe the taste. Mm-hmm. Because the tongue is like the only. Part of your body that has that Well, sugar is sweet. Fat is fatty. Fat is fatty. That’s what I’m saying. It’s hard to use the words to describe it that are already there. What about like, what about, well, how do we, let’s determine like rendered fat versus un rendered fat. Like how about, how does that equate into this When you think about something like beef, tallow and butter. Things like that versus like you eat a steak and it has that really fatty bit that hasn’t been cooked all the way. Those two things have different fats, right? Like the fats are different. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. And like different fats have a lot of different flavors. Butter is interesting ’cause I think people underestimate the flavor of dairy. Uh, people especially grew up in like America are big dairy consuming worlds. Mm-hmm. We’re like, oh, butter is a relatively neutral ish taste, but then it’s not who calls butter neutral. It’s not. But there’s a way to refine butter. To then make it slightly more neutral tasting ghee. It’s called ghee, it’s called clar, uh, clarifying butter’s. Yes. We’d call it, you get rid of the milk solids and the water, and it’s just pure fat. A hundred percent. It still has its own taste. It’s, uh, freaking delicious because it’s dairy and it’s, and all fat tastes different. Yeah. You know, but like, there is a, a lot of emerging evidence to say that fat is indeed the six taste. And they have like, there’s basically a couple different things that you need to qualify something as having a taste or having a flavor. Okay. And part of it literally comes down to hooking up neurons in people’s brains. Mm-hmm. Um, that see if there’s a direct link. To it being on the tongue and like a neurotransmitter release. Okay. Right. Interesting. So is it like isolating just the tongue or was it the whole mouth basically? I think it was isolating just like the tongue and like the relationship to the taste bud. Oh gosh. But there were experiments done where they said that they basically found all of the precepts that you would need for fat to be considered a flavor. So it effectively is the six taste. So it is, it’s so fat equals a type of flavor. Fat is literally a flavor. I don’t know if this is like consensus among the scientific community. Okay. But what about chef? Because with chefs, I think fat does equal flavor. A hundred percent. And like, again, this is a weird mix of scientific jargon and then like cooking advice, you know? Yeah. Like add drizzle olive oil on top of your roasted vegetables. Yeah. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. But like, is there ever a point in your home where you’re like. Adding excess fat to this dish would not make it better. No. Right. It always kind of does. Yeah. There’s a breaking point. The only time I reached that at a restaurant this weekend, I say that the only time I’ve ever done this, when I tried to make kimchi fried rice and I accidentally, we’ve been there, put way too much oil. By the time I put it in my bowl, it was literally swimming in like an inch and a half of, of oil. Yeah. Yeah. Because I had no idea what I was doing. Uh, which happens, you know, the best of us. I, um, I was at a restaurant this weekend and for some reason I’ve encountered this now at two restaurants in the last like two weeks that I’ve never seen before in my life. What’s going on? Where they had, I was at Dunsmore in Los Angeles. Great. Love that place. Freaking restaurant. Oh my God. They make a cornbread that holds sexy. Somehow the weight of the butter in the cornbread is more than the cornbread weighs itself. It’s tough to describe. It creates like a vortex. What do they call it? Like a, yeah, it’s like a, a, a black hole. Yeah. It kind of like sucks the butter into the cornbread and makes it disappear, but then it explodes in your mouth like a fricking gush or when you eat it, um, a, a, a disappearing star. There’s something No, I was thinking about something called like supernova. It’s like a super solution. Or if something is super soluble in science, it’s like a water can actually absorb more solid than water, but still maintain a liquid. I was thinking about. Science in this space. Sorry. But anyways, um, place, when you say fat is flavor, dunsmore is like the epitome of a restaurant. Yeah, that’s actually really true. They had a dish that was just like roasted dates swimming in like brown butter. Okay. How did that make you, that was the whole dish. God dang it. It was delicious. Mm-hmm. It was so good. I love dates fudgy. Sweet. Right? They were just like hit on the, over the open fire. So you got some kiss of wood on it and then just swimming in fat and I was like, this is gonna be too much. Mm-hmm. And I ate it and I was like. God that fat makes the date so much fgi here. Yeah, dude. Sometimes I just slice open a date and then I put a pad of butter in there and I dip it in sea salt and it’s the bomb snack. Damn dude. It’s just, it’s a sensory overload. And then I was at the walrus and the carpenter up in Seattle, another great restaurant, shadow Chef Renee Erickson. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um. But they had a like warm date dish just swimming in olive oil. Um, and like that fat changes the flavor sosus much. Of course. Yeah. Part of that’s ’cause it’s making it sort of travel across your palate. Right. Um, but then I think part of that is also just like you add fat to any food. It’s gonna make it taste better. Yeah. I think it’s because me and you were raised in the fat free moment of, of diet culture. Yeah. So fat was kind of foreign in my house. It was, it was a little bit like, it wasn’t taboo, I would say, but like American food, when my mom would make it, she’d be using very, very low calorie substitutes. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of spray bottles of oils and stuff. Well, what about when she made Persian food? Because a lot of Persian stews, no, a lot people don’t know this. Persian food has a lot of good old fat in it. Mm-hmm. A lot. And I actually have specific cooking oils for Persian food that I only use for Persian food. What are they? Um, I use a lot of grapes, so I use a lot of grape seed oil and I use ghee. Oh, funny. Because a lot of Persian. Persian Ash Persian stews. Yeah. I, I would bet there’s probably some historical link with like the cooking of, of Indian curries, just ’cause they share so many different food ways, right? Yeah. But there’s almost like a layer of oil slipped on top. There has to be, it’s almost like e like if you ever had like Ethiopian food. Yeah. Yeah. There’s like at least like. A finger’s worth of oil at the top. And the oil is typically per perfumed with whatever spice or whatever herb you’re using. So it changes color. So if you’re making like a red stew, a lot of the time it would be tinted. The oil is tinted orange because you’ve been cooking tomatoes in that for like hours and hours. And it’s not always ems. It’s not supposed to be emulsified, which. I learned the hard way. Mm. As someone who’s learning how to cook Persian food, you do not want the fat emulsified, you just want it sitting on top. Whenever you make, um, Senjo, which is this walnut pomegranate molasses, it’s gorgeous, it has this bright green yellow oil from the turmeric and it just sits on top of this brown stew. And then with Horus Sabzi, it’s like this dark green sludge of oil. Sorry. That is so good. I was, um, another little chef is mm-hmm. Just like butter makes everything better. And there’s been, I feel like a rising tide in people talking about why the reason restaurant food is good. Right. It’s simply because chefs are adding a ton of salt and butter. Yeah. We had Josh Weissman on and he said, that’s why I tend to agree with that. Yeah. Um, though I was also talking to the homie Internet Shaquille and he was kind of railing against that. We went to Dun Dunsmore sister restaurant with him Hatchet Hall with with Internet Shack. We went. To Hatchet Hall with him, get on that shack. But he, he put out this great video where he was talking about how people use that ex that as an excuse for why their food isn’t good at home. Oh, well, my food can never be as good as the restaurants because they’re adding so much butter and salt. Well, it’s not only because of butter and salt, it’s also the techniques that are used. I a hundred percent agree. Yeah. You said a hundred percent like 50 times already. Really? You’ve said, oh yeah, I a hundred percent agree. Like right Maggie? I a hundred percent agree. I’m saying a hundred percent a lot. You keep saying it. It totally distracted me. Sometimes you get, sometimes you just get stuck in a little loop. I know I get like that too. But you saying there is, if you were to take. Two burgers. Mm-hmm. Cooked with the same exact technique. Okay. Right. Like a nice, hard seared, we’re not talking about smash burgers. Even just a nice, hard, seared burger. Got it. Cooked to like a medium. Medium well, okay. Uh, on a brioche bun, whatever. Right. If one of those burgers is 90 10, lean to fat and the other’s 80 20 lean to fat, the fat, the fattier one’s gonna taste better. We’ve done this, we’ve done this. I agree. Yeah. If one of those buns is toasted in butter and the other is toasted, dried, the butter toasted one’s gonna taste better. Yeah, that’s true. If all else being equal, adding fat up to a point, don’t make the, don’t toss the whole, uh, you know, bun in, in melted butter and serve it up wet. We’re not animals. But adding that fat is going to make that better. It’s all about a balance. I think also chefs balance their food very well and fat’s a big key in that balance and And exactly. Semi Me, no Stretch. She made a whole book called Salt, fat, acid, and Heat sold millions of copies probably, I’m not sure, just because these are all the co cornerstones of being a good cook and delicious food contains all of these, I would say, tactics in order to be delicious food. Yeah. And we’ve talked about the, the Thai idea in cooking of cl cl. Oh yeah. Tell ’em about cl cl. So this idea of balance, um, but it’s not balancing everything at say, a level of five outta 10 taste. Mm-hmm. It’s balancing everything to 10 or 11. On the 10 point scale, right? Right. So if you have more fat, you can then add more acid, you can then add more salt, you can then add more heat. So fat allows you to do that. Mm-hmm. Which I think is really, really cool. Do you wanna know the, the, the five criteria for something to be considered a taste? Me because there are five criteria on me. There are five criteria that they laid out in the scientific setting laid on me. So one, there must be a distinct class of affective stimuli. And the stimuli responsible for fat taste are the breakdown products of fats and fatty acids. Okay? There should also be a transduction mechanism for, uh, receptors to change the chemical co of stimuli to the electric signal. So basically. The fat has to have something that is independently detectable. Okay? And so the thing in this case that they found was literally the prevalence of fatty acids being independently, um, like triggered, independently triggered, okay? And then number two, uh, transect, we talked about that. Number three. Mm-hmm. There should be neurotransmission of the electrical signal to the processing regions of the brain, right? So we talked about that. Number four, there should be perceptual independence from other taste qualities. Which I think is really interesting. They actually say this is controversial, uh, because there’s no obvious perception such as like sweetness of sucrose or saltiness of sodium. Um, and then, uh, some scientists suggest that the fatty acid taste component is that detection threshold only, and any definable perceptions are associated with either aroma or chemist. So there’s no scientific consensus on whether or not fat really is like the sixth flavor. Mm-hmm. But there is some compelling evidence. To believe that it is. That was very interesting. Was it? It was a lot of scientific jar. It was a lot of scientific drawing. I really had a fun time reading this study, but to be honest, I think fat is a carrier of flavor because food tastes better when it has fat in it, regardless of what it is. What foods do you think are most transformed? I think pastries is a big one. Whenever I think of like something like a, like a chiffon cake, like that airy nature, it barely, it has no fat in it, right? The fat weighs it down, so it’s just egg whites. Oh yeah. And the yolks. The yolks are the fat, right? Yolks are fat. Yeah. Yeah. But whenever I think of something like a butter cake or a pound cake, I think the mouth feel, and that crumb and that texture really sends it into overdrive for me, and I think it makes it so much more of a more enjoyable experience instead of like fluffy. I’m not a big, fluffy, airy person. Like I don’t like. You want dense? I think I’m a dense girl. Oh, my cake to take me to pound town. I think I’m a dense cake. I think I’m, I’m, I’m a dense food girl. If you wanna know the truth, when people are like, oh, volume eating, you gotta eat a lot of like, like cabbage and stuff. I’m like, uh, I don’t really find value in that, but I’ll like how? I’ll like house a steak and I’ll eat all the fat off of it. I like the density of Indian sweets. Yeah. You know what I mean? It’s just a lot of sugar and ghee pounded with nuts and just kind of in a, it’s round and hard. I like dense foods too, like a mochi butter cake. Me too. Me too. To me, I think like the ultimate expression of fat equaling flavor. It’s so dumb. Mm-hmm. It’s buffalo sauce. Oh, that is such, do you know what I mean? An interesting take. What? Okay. Okay. So check this out. Um, if you ever wanna do a fun little experiment of how fat affects flavor mm-hmm. Frank’s red hot, which to me is the best wing sauce. The best like vinegar, Louisiana style, hot sauce, Frank’s red hot, original, or the buffalo sauce. Well this is where I’m going with that. Right? Take Frank’s red hot original. Okay. And mix that with butter, right. Versus eating Frank’s red hot buffalo style sauce. ’cause Frank’s red hot buffalo style sauce. It’s great for bodybuilders who are trying to stay within certain macros because it’s like a delicious sauce. It’s, it’s vinegar, but it’s got some body to it. Um, so it makes you kind of think of that. Mm-hmm. Just that on all your stuff, but there’s like basically no calories in it. Right? When you add butter to it, obviously there’s much calories in it. It taste, try the buttery francs red hot original versus the Frank’s red hot buffalo sauce that has no fat in it, and you will see exactly how fat affects flavor. Dude, I, let me tell you though, I love the buffalo sauce of Frank’s red Hot so much more. I do because I’ve done this exact test before. Really? Why? I think it’s the viscosity of it. You’ll add some Gugu to your butter sauce. The viscosity of the buffalo sauce negates the need for butter for me though, because I feel like I’m getting that fattiness from the rendered chicken wings. Oh, that’s a fair point though. ’cause there is subcutaneous fat. That’s I’m saying and like if you’re frying the chicken wings off, that’s what I’m saying, the subcutaneous fat takes the place of, but let me tell you, a good buffalo wing with the you, you could taste like the butter and like the little like dash of worship sauce that someone else added that’s not from the bottle. You’re like, all right, somebody cooked here. You know what I mean? I think probably like the best expression of fat carrying flavor used in foods is in Indian food. Sure. Okay. And, and like a tarka, tarka and bloom and blooming spices. Yes. That’s another, another thing that if a seasoned cook who like knows how to bloom spices in oil to the appropriate temperature, right. Makes food versus an unseasoned cook who might just be like dumping some jarred powders into a delicious sauce and calling it curry. Mm-hmm. That difference to me is it’s so massive. It’s so massive. Nicole. It is. 100% different. Another one a hundred percent take a shot every time. Josh says a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. I think a hundred percent. I think Indian food is a fantastic expression of fat equaling flavor. It’s a hundred percent, but people, but, but at least Americans, they don’t, they’re like, oh no, the flavor comes from. The spices that it uses. Mm-hmm. It comes from the curry powders. It comes from the curry leaves. I mean, it does, but that, that flavor gotta get transmitted somehow. You know what I mean? I totally agree with you, but can you confidently say it on this podcast that fat equals flavor? Because I’m going to say yes, fat equals flavor. What flavor is it? I don’t know. Take it up with your mama. I would say. That fat alone is not an independent taste. Mm-hmm. I believe that they have found evidence to suggest that it is, and I think that that does probably have certain implications in the research of obesogenic foods. However, ob, I’ve never heard that before. Obesogenic. Obesogenic, OB. Yeah. Foods that are like linked to like large scale obesity. Okay, cool. And that’s kind of the reason people study this is like, if we classify it as a flavor, can we then start researching what fats people reach for and potentially over consume? Whoa. Because fat is so much more calorie dense than even any carbohydrate. How, how cool. Okay. Right. And they’re setting this in lab rats right now. Sorry to cut your, sorry to cut you off while you were on your Soliqua. My, I’m on my jamiroquai right now. Um, I don’t think fat is necessarily a standalone flavor. Mm-hmm. However. If you were to add excess fat to 85 to 90% of the foods that you’re eating right now, is that food going to taste better and have more flavor? Yes. If you switch from 2% milk to whole milk in your cereal, that is going to have more flavor. Mm-hmm. So in that sense, does fat equal flavor. Absolutely, dude. Mm-hmm. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. A hundred percent does flour. Hundred percent. I wanna ask you, does flour have flavor? Half percent. Does flour have flavor? Mm-hmm. You know, it’s a fun experiment. Hmm. You take any food, this kind of goes back a little bit to Fletchers. If you take any food and you just chew it in your mouth for long enough, eventually it will taste just like glucose. It’ll taste like sugar, including flour. Any food, uh, I. Believe this to be true? Are there, or maybe it’s just any food, like a green bean. Yes. If I crunch a green bean in between my molars for seven minutes, it’ll taste like sugar. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because the process of digestion, you’re liar. The process of digestion. Maggie, if you can google this to make sure I’m not a dumb, dumb, but the process of digestion like happens within saliva. That’s the first line of defense. Most of us just, you know. You swallow our food like a duck. It’s I think, I think it’s a food people thing. What? Swallowing our foods and not chewing. Yeah. Normies out there. Okay, wait. Hold on. Chewing some food like bread for a prolonged period around seven minutes can lead to a sweet taste as saliva breaks down complex carbohydrates and simple sugars like maltose. Um, but green beans have carbohydrates in sound. Very amylase, one of my favorite medical terms, but like green beans do have carbohydrates in them, which means that that carbohydrate would break, eventually break down long after. You’d probably have to eat a lot of green beans. You got a real wad going, a lot of gbs. So you gotta tell people, eat your food slower so it’ll taste better. I mean, yeah, I think that’s more of a. A metaphorical sense of like lingering on the savoriness of life. But we have to, we have to ask the normies if they’d swallow their food or choose. I feel like me, you and everyone on the food team, like this is something I figured out whenever I was working, um, at the cafe in my culinary school was the. Absolute insane rapid fire eating you have to do while on the line. Yeah. You literally, I remember vividly in my chef whites bending down ’cause someone handed me a deli cup filled with mashed potatoes, trit tip, and broccoli and said, eat this. Now there’s a, there’s a lull in service that’s crazy. And I literally remember and I hoovered it. Everyone around me also was crouching down like we were in the war. Trenches of war. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hoovering our food. And then the expo guy was like, okay, everybody get up. It’s time to go again. And then everyone was like up and like wiping their mouths. But I think there’s, there’s a link between. Chefs and food people and the way that they eat and how they eat and how it absolutely screws their whole entire relationship with food. Have you seen that handsome young man line cook from Brooklyn who will do the parody videos like outside the restaurant he actually cooks at that’s just like, Hey, what’s up? This is, I’m a second year line cook in Brooklyn, and here’s what I’m eating for staff meal. I think so. Shaggy hair, tattoos, where’s a, where’s a tank top? Yeah. Yeah. Piercings. And you’ll be like, here I have a. Uh, four rounds. Deli cup filled with like mashed potatoes and salad. And then I have three hand rolled cigarettes and a quarter of a date. It’s a joke. Oh, that’s a joke. It’s a joke. I mean, like this whole time rooted in reality. Of course, I’m sure they did consume that, but listen, it’s hard out here. Hard life. Spring always gets me in the mood for fresh starts cleaning out closets, planting something new, and this year I’m diving into a new language with Rosetta Stone Tortilla. Uh, you know what, that was Nicole. That was you speaking. Excellent Spanish. That was me trying my best. But I think there’s something really exciting about the idea of traveling somewhere and actually speaking the language, ordering food, chatting with locals. It’s a totally different experience when you can truly connect, which is why I use Rosetta. Stone before going to Mexico recently, and I was able to talk about Oaxacan food with a wonderful chef that I met. That’s so awesome. Um, Rosetta Stone has been the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years, and their immersive approach actually helps you absorb and retain a new language naturally, whether you’re on your desktop or learning on the go with the app. What I love most is the true accent speech recognition feature. It gives you real time feedback on your pronunciation, so you sound way, way more natural. Plus there’s no translation crutch. It trains you to think and speak in your new language from the start Grande. Did you know that? Um, I was literally googling hi mate a few days ago trying to find out what a hi mate is. So, and I learned that ’cause I was in Mexico. Uh, don’t wait. Unlock your language learning potential. Now a hotdog is a sandwich. Listeners can grab Rosetta Stone’s lifetime membership for. 50% off. That’s right. That’s unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit rosetta stone.com/hotdog to get started and claim your 50% off today. Don’t miss out. Go to rosetta stone.com/hotdog and start learning today. Josh, I need you to close your eyes. We’re gonna do an experiment together. Do, do, do, do I have to? Yes. Okay, so you’re gonna try five different kinds of mayonnaise and you need, because I know how much you love mayonnaise, and I know that you love putting it in everything from your deli sandwiches to your mashed potatoes. Mm-hmm. So I wanted you to try these, and I want you to tell me which is which. Do you ever get dizzy when you close your eyes? No. Here’s the first one. Open sesame. If you could take a guess as to what that one is, what would you say? These are all normal mayonnaises, but I’m guessing the brand. Exactly. Okay. I believe that is Sir Kensington’s. Okay, great. So here, I think they may have gone bankrupt. Okay. Open up young man. Here comes the chocho chain. Oh, don’t mash in the microphone. Tangy. I’m going to say best foods. Okay. Next. Ooh, airplane. Airplane. I believe that is craft. Craft. A little bit sweeter on the pallet. Mm. Nice. Okay. Now fighter? Pilot. Pilot. Pilot. Oh god. Hmm. Are any of these store brand? None of these are store brand. They are all OG products. Hmm. I believe that is, Hmm. No, I think that’s Best Foods and I think I had Duke’s earlier. So you think that’s Best Foods? Yep. Okay. I think Duke’s was, what is that, number two. Got it. Okay. Gimme one second. Thank you. Just gimme one second. Hold on. We’re gonna cut this out. I want you to know that I don’t like this and I kind of feel like throwing up. Okay. Whatever. These mayonnaise are very hot. Okay. Get over yourself. Okay, last one. Oop. Ew. God. I think that’s one of those like. Awful, like avocado oil. Um, I don’t even know the brand, but it’s, it’s pr Maybe it says something Paleo on it. It’s like I can picture the freaking jar. It almost looks like Sir Kensington’s, but it’s got like weird graffiti writing on it. Is it called Follow Your Heart? Yeah, I’ll say that. Okay, great. Josh, guess what? What’s you got zero out of five? What were they? The first one was qpi. Oh really? The second one was Sir Kensington’s, the Tangy one. Ah, the third one was Hellman’s or Best Foods, depending on what part of the country you’re for. You’re from D was Dukes and the last one was Kraft. That is utterly fascinating, and I found out that I have a terrible pellet. There you go. Oh, well guess what, Josh? Tell ’em what time it is. Design we call, I’m sorry, ate a lot of hot mayonnaise. Opinions are like casseroles. Are you gonna be okay with all the mayonnaise you ate? Yeah. It was just a lot. It was kinda, some of them were big. I’m sorry. I’ll try to make ’em smaller next time. We’re doing it next time? Mm-hmm. I don’t want to, I don’t care. I’m hungry for real food. I don’t not, man. Hi Josh. Nicole. I’m calling. She’s speaking. I was watching the husband versus wife cooking challenge on your little kitchen, and Josh said that when he gets to the end of a Parmesan Ryan, he just. Throws it away. But I think there’s actually a really good use for that. Every time I have a Parmesan rind, I, uh, chop it up and I put it in the microwave for a few seconds. Yeah. And it crisps up like this really delicious Parmesan chip. Yeah. It’s a great snack for me. It’s a great snack for pets. Right. And I really recommend trying it. Have either of you ever tried this before? And do you have any other uses for the ends of the Parmesan rind? Let me tell you, let me tell you, I’ve seen this on TikTok, so I feel like I’ve done it. I’ve never done it before, but I feel like I’ve done it because I’ve seen it on TikTok. You know what I mean? What a frightening indictment to modernity that you just said that. That’s so crazy. What a frightening indictment to modernity. I read books that’s like so dystopian to me that you’re like, well, I, I feel like I’ve experienced it. ’cause I watched it on my phone. Yeah. Oh God. Like 30 times. Oh, do I feel like I suddenly understand all the horrors in the world Now? Go ahead. Well, now I’m embarrassed. No. Talk about the cheese. Talk about the cheese you experienced on your phone. What’s the texture of it? Like Nicole, it’s light and airy because I heard the crisp whenever they do. Incredible. You are so fake right now. Incredible. Just because I force fed you mayonnaise. This is how you treat me. Gru. You love myna? Um, sorry, we’re fighting. Um, oh yeah, I save mine for Sue. I saved mine for soup. Uh, no. I don’t know what else you’d do with it. I guess you’d probably like try grating it. I freeze it and I put it in my soup or I put it in my sauces and then I, and I take it out. Yeah. I’m just, I’m sort of fine just letting that be the end of my cheese journey, you know? That’s where the cheese stops for me. I also, what a ter what did you say? Terrifying what? Into modernity? Uh, terrifying indictment against modernity. I think I want that on my tombstone. Oh my God. And I want a video looping of like, me doing like crazy stuff on the internet. Uh, this is a very good hack and I would like to try it one day. I, I really, really don’t cook with a lot of cheese at home. I know you’re not a big cheese guy. I’m not a big cheese, which is weird ’cause your wife loves cheese. She identifies as a cheese B word, and that’s her word to say, not mine. So she can say it. I cheese bellow wolf. Do you remember like going to restaurants and they’d be like, you can get a little, a little cheese plate for like $14 and here’s a cheese that we selected for you. There’s like a little jam. Yeah, like a honey thing, like a pickled fake. This is Maria Bamford ass voice. You’ve been doing it for so long. Um, there’s like a pickled fig. I’m Maria Bamford’s, normal voice. Oh my god, Tom. That’s incredible. That’s my Maria Bamford normal voice impression. Yeah, that’s pretty good. I love Maria Bamford. Speaking of which, we need to get Amy Sedaris on the show. ’cause I love that woman. I’ll take either Sedaris. Oh, I, you know, I’ve read, I don’t read a lot of books, but I have read a many a day, A David Sedaris book, that’s his name, right? David Sedaris. Yeah. Yeah. I have read like four David Sedaris books. I love that. David Sedaris turned being funny into being a bestselling author. And if David Sedaris was born, say like 30 mm-hmm. Year, 40 years later. He would’ve just been making tiktoks for free with all of his funny musings, but I love that he was able to turn that into something meaningful that people sat down with and really contemplated. Again, I think he’s a, I think he might be my favorite author. He’s a great author, which is crazy. ’cause again, don’t read. Um, where were we? Talk about cheese. Okay, next. Next opinion. Next opinion. I’d like to try it. Hi, Nicole and Josh. Um, I have, oh my God. Oh, I love that way. You’re excited. So, um, my mom recently recreated one of my grandma’s old recipes, at least. That’s what they said. Um, and I just need to tell you this because the whiteness is crazy. Yes, let’s go. Um, it goes pineapples cheddar cheese. Okay. And Ritz crackers. And you bake it. Okay. And like my whole family is white. I’m adopted from Asia Uhhuh. Um, so I was like, this is like crazy white people stuff. And here’s the thing, I tried it and it is delicious and I’m so, so confused. Please advise. Thank you. Do not yuck white people. Yum. Listen, what? This is a hot take. White people are people too. You know what I mean? And they don’t know any better than to bake, uh, rich fat or with pineapple. That’s simply the food of their homeland. Yeah. And you know, that’s cool man. It like kind of is when you think about like white American culture, the food culture of it is. Sort of just commerce in a way, and like canned pineapple is the ultimate tale of commerce. That was particularly marketed towards white Americans as like part of culture. Pineapples got cool when we bought Hawaii. Yeah. Forcibly annexed violently. Ann, because of their pineapple farms in the Bowl corporation like that is, did you ever find out if pineapples were native to Hawaii? Pineapples are not native to Hawaii. Good. But they’re, they’re. No. Are they even a canoe crop? I think they might be post canoe crop even. I remember you wanted to look it up. Yeah. No, pineapples are not native to Hawaii, but like they have been cultivated there for a very long time. Um, but yeah, I, I really genuinely love that for you though, because I think every single, mm-hmm. Every single dish tells a story in its own way. Mm-hmm. Sure. And a lot of those stories are like weird and sad. Especially if you look at even like Korean fried chicken, right. One of those delicious chicken dishes in the world is, it is kind of only there because of like American military occupation. Right, right, right. Um, and like an unjust war fought over communism, you know, so like the history of the world is simultaneously bleak. And hopeful and terrible things come from it, and wonderful things come from it and the world moves on and we eat food and we share stories with each other, and I think that’s cool. I think it’s cool that you’re adopted. Yeah, that too. I think that’s awesome. Hi, Josh and Nicole. This is, uh, Braxton from Utah. Long time listener for phone caller. This is about to involve pineapple cheese too. I just found out that they’re not making Pepsi Nitro anymore. What? And I’m very offended. What? What? I, Pepsi Nitro. Can’t believe they ever do such things. So if you could, uh, use your connections over there at Pepsi, you get ’em to make it again, that’d be great. Thanks. What’s Pepsi Nitro? Tell you what reaction. Long before I try and get ’em to bring back Pepsi Nitro. I’m getting ’em to bring back Pepsi Holiday Spice, and I’m getting them to bring back Pepsi, blue Pepsi Holiday Spice, of course, flavored with, uh, it just kind of clove, um, really bad. And then Pepsi Blue had nothing to do with Pepsi, but it was bright blue and they had the most incredible two thousands branding. Mm. Pepsi Nitro. This is when like nitro cold brews were becoming popular. Oh my God. Especially the RTD, the canned ones obsessed with them. Um, so for people that don’t know, there’s kind of, uh, I guess two ways to, I don’t even, it’s not carbonate. Two ways to make drinks a little fizzy to change the mouth feel of a drink. One is by adding like carbonic acid or car carbon dioxide, I suppose, that creates carbon acid, which is right. Fizzy. And then you can also ate something. So some beers are, you know, carbonated and some are nitrogenated. Like a Guinness is nitrogenated, which is why it isn’t particularly fizzy Dito for, I think maybe Abbots has a Nitrogenated Blo dale. Um, so they did that with Pepsi and I tried it, and I’ll tell you what, I really prefer carbon to nitrogen in that regard. It’s just like, it tastes just kind of flat and thick. Mm. Just like a flat and thick flavored Pepsi. Oh, and I found it very unnerving. So, Braxton, you are in this fight alone. I apologize, but Godspeed to you. I’ve never had it before, so I can’t really say yes or no, but I’m sorry that you’re losing one of your favorites. It’s always tough. You know what happens with me and skincare a lot. Like I use a face lotion for like two years. Then they’re like, oh, we’re discontinuing it. And I’m like, why? So. Look at the can the, can They tried to make the can of Pepsi Nitro look like lacome coffee. Yeah, I’m looking at it too. It’s so crazy. Oh, I love innovation in the snack food space. I find it very silly. Me too. Um, you know what, we never did, we never talked about your ex-girlfriend and why you don’t go to Chili’s. Was that it? Or what? Tipping. Oh. Why you and your ex-girlfriend Don’t go to, don’t tip or whatever. Look at the Pepsi Blue branding though. It looks like something that a guy in 2006 would’ve tattooed on his shoulder. It looks like, it looks like an affliction t-shirt. Yes, it does. Um. Tell the story ’cause we have to follow up ’cause you said we were gonna follow up. That’s right. I said I’d talk about this, um, regards to tipping at buffets. So, um, oh, my ex still smartest person I’ve ever met, much smarter than I am, knows a lot more trivia than I do and I know a fair amount about trivia. Um, but they actually went on a game show and they were asked the question, according to the Emily Post guide, to etiquette, what is the correct amount to tip at a buffet? And it’s between 10%, 15%, 20%. You know the answer. I’m gonna say 10%. It is indeed 10%. And she said 20. Me and your ex-girlfriend are the six. And I totally understood where she was coming from. ’cause if she says 10% on television and the answer’s 20 people are like, wow, what a bleep. This person’s only tipping 10%. I wouldn’t think that, but it was according to the Emily Post guide to etiquette, obviously. And I remember my dad telling me that weirdly. ’cause we went through a lot of buffets. Yeah. And he would probably tip like a quarter. So she was worried about the public perception of her. Yeah. And I understood it. I understand on a game show. Yeah. You know whatcha gonna do, girl, what are you gonna do? I would love to be on a game show. Lost the game show because of it. I would’ve loved to be on a game show. Oh, she lost because of it. Lost because of it. Bring back Coke, black Coca-Cola Black. Hello, my name is Theodore and my heart was not prepared for your sultry voicemail about the rest of your body. Your loins from Oregon and I make a thing. That I call, uh, the liquor. I put it in everything. Huh? It’s a can of Campbell’s condensed French onion soup. Okay. Uh, two big handfuls of dried sheet ta mushrooms. Heck yeah. And an entire can of, uh, bamboo shoots. You reduce that until you can, uh, wipe it off the back of a spoon, if that makes any sense. A nappe, if you will. And then. Drain it and reserve the liquid. I add it to everything. A couple tablespoons in ramen. Uh, put it in your meatloaf. Make salad dressing with it. Uh, don’t laugh. I hope that enriches your day. Start laughing. This is great. This is the most unique thing I’ve ever heard on podcast. This is just, this is just a umami flavor. Bomb it Sure. So making a, the shiitake broth liquid, but you said it was Campbell’s condensed. Which one? Which soup was it? Was it of French? A French onion. French onion. So not cream of, yeah, it, so it’s onion soup. It’s condensed Onion soup. Yeah, it’s shiitake mushrooms dried in bamboo shoots ba So he just made a flavor bomb. You can, if you go to any ramen restaurant in LA, they will charge you $7 to add that flavor combo. So way to true. But that, that flavor combo, when you add it to ramen, it’s literally called tore, right? Yeah. Sure. Like a tare tore is an oil, isn’t it? No. I always believe tore is like a kind of concentrate of, um, like, like dashi, dashi, kbu. Okay. And soy and some other things. Like that’s what you’ve made is a, a very heritage American tare. Sounds delicious, Al but albeit with, with shiitake and bamboo shoots, but the Campbell soup, I, I do think, mm-hmm. I do think 95% of what you’ve achieved could be just achieved by the Campbell soup itself. You know what I’m saying? Don’t tell him it’s fun for me. Well, no, I know. It’s very fun. And again, this is like incredibly unique and I love that you have that strictly from a culinary standpoint, how much of those bamboo shoots doing, they’re adding body? Probably. I body’s straining it off. You think the bamboo shoots boiling is gonna add body, but still some comes in. What do you mean? Bamboo shoots are like, yeah, I feel like you eat bamboo shoots for the texture, not the flavor. His bamboo shoots are probably the really like gummy, like soft ones, not the one hard ones that you’re used to. I’m fascinated by this. It sounds good to me. And Bamb, it definitely sounds good. Bamboo shoots have a very clean, clear bacterial taste to them. It’s like the bay leaf, the bamboo shoot is the bay leaf. You know what I mean? It’s something, it’s little subtle baseline coming in a subtle something is a, I put some wood chips in there, a freak. Have you seen that guy? Yeah. That makes the wood flavored ice cream. Yes, I have. That’s the coolest thing I’ve ever seen in my life. She made it with these, with these weird trees that smell really gross. Saw that Birchwood pear tree, is that what it’s called? Something Birand. Pear beach. Pear B peach, plum pear. And it’s, and he made an ice cream out of the flowers and the wood and he said, Ew. It tastes like it smelled. Yeah. But then he just made like an oak ice cream and it was great. Put some wood chips in your, like her. Do you feel like you’ve tasted it? Because you’ve seen it absolutely not hate you. Absolutely not. Hate because I hate you, but I, but I, I am inspired by the idea. You mean to tell me that you can’t, you can’t qualify in your head that what you’ve seen and all the experience of your life. You’ve been able to, like, you’ve been around wood chips and you’ve been around ice cream, and you’ve probably had some wacky ice cream, so you can’t put yourself in the creator’s shoes. I can put myself there mentally, but I also think there’s something endemic to the human experience about being in a place physically. Mm-hmm. And tactilely experiencing the world forever. Seeing a photo, but you don’t have of a mountain doesn’t do the justice of standing in its majesty. That’s fair. That’s fair. But you can’t, like, I want to eat the wood, but you can’t taste the wood without eating it. No. Maybe, maybe synesthesia. No, I think you’re just addicted to TikTok. Did you see a TikTok saying that you might have synesthesia? No. And now you think you do? No, no, no, no. What color is nine? Purple. Oh, maybe she got it. Maybe she is. Got it. Folks. I do have a form of synesthesia. Sometimes I smell emotions. Love smells like birchwood. It’s giving scare. Wait, wait, wait. I smell different. Oh my gosh, she’s pregnant. Well, on that note, thank you so much for stopping by. A hotdog is a sandwich, we got new episodes out on audio platforms every Wednesday. New videos out on Thursday. If you wanna be sorry, dude, new videos are out on Sunday. I said Thursday. That’s. Crazy. I was like, what’s the day next to Wednesday? Aw. And it’s Sunday now. It would make sense for it to be on Thursday. Yeah, one would thing. If you want to be featured on Opinions like Capital, put us up at 8 3 3 dog pod one. And if you like seeing videos of our faces saying words, we got plenty more where that came over. The mid kitchen channel. That’s over at the YouTube’s hotdogs. Check it out. Thanks again. Bye Bye.