ramble before you get into today’s episode it’s me Trevor everetts the host of the podcast Trevor talks too much here to tell you about a very special episode we have uh it’s gonna be all me solo not only will I be talking too much by my darn self but I’ll be giving you all a closer look into my mind the window into the inner workings of the mythical Swag Lord uh so I’ll be talking a bit more about me this particular episode is all about some of the struggles I’ve had coming out of the pandemic social anxiety and how some of these new connections have me kind of looking deeper into my inner self and doing some reflection so don’t forget to be on the lookout for this episode next week by subscribing to Trevor talks too much on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcast we’ve all been there the Cheesecake Factory server hands you the wine menu and panic ensues what’s the difference between Saran Shiraz it’s a capped front just a Cabernet that went to grad school which Chardonnay is the butteriest and doesn’t even matter because his wine just a huge scam this is a hot dog as a sandwich yeah I put ice in my cereal so what that makes no sense hot dog is a sandwich a hot dog is a sandwich Welcome to our podcast a hot dog is a sandwich to show we break down the world’s biggest food debates I’m your host Josh sharer and I’m your host Nicole hendizadeh and today we are joined by a very special guest that’s very so special this very special guest once played a game with me called Fart Machine where when I was seven years old he would make me lay on the ground and go fart machine fart machine as he and his friends kicked me that is because today’s special guest is my brother John who is also a wine expert and John I’m hoping you can speak to one why the game fart machine existed what is wrong with you and also what your wine qualifications are oh my god well I think now I drink to suppress the memories of of that game my wine qualifications they’re they’re kind of spread out Wine’s been a big part of my life for for maybe seven years uh I buy too much of it some days I drink too much of it sure um so I uh I have a w set or weset depending on what country you’re in wine and spirits education trust level three certification level three level three that’s a lot of levels Josh is a diamond in uh rocket League yeah I’m I’m I’m I’m Diamond two level three in rocket League yeah it’s pretty close to your line level oh I was also for about three whole weeks an assistant sommelier at a fine dining restaurant that that didn’t go so well uh I’ve I’ve made some wine I’ve picked some grapes I’ve sold some wine I sold some more wine uh I was a marketing consultant briefly for for some direct consumer wine sales and then for about a year and a half I was at a management accountant for wine that’s a pretty expensive resume here but we could have not deflects on you John I don’t mean this you are a very special guest uh but I mean we could have gone out there gotten some sort of you know name in the wine industry but the reason I wanted to have you on here one you are one of the smartest people I know and you do have the qualifications but two you are the person that I talk to the most about wine being a scam because I drink the most wine with you and again no matter how this conversation goes I am incredibly grateful for all the nice fancy wines you have given me I don’t want to cut off off the flow of that so know that I am very grateful um but you know I’ve always kind of thought in my heart of hearts that wine is huge scam and it doesn’t make sense and the wool is being pulled over people’s eyes it’s very easy to do that when the scam product gets you drunk but I want to hear your opinions as an expert on that yeah my opinion is that the flow will probably stop if you offend me today I think my answer is yeah Wine’s a scam but I like it so are you willing to get duped yeah I just hope I get duped for 20 bucks not 100 bucks on a bottle of wine if it happens you know but you gotta you gotta have some losses to to get some wins I guess and do you ultimately think so wine being a scam however if you get enough like pleasure out of those wins that you’re talking about you think it’s a scam that ultimately is worth it yeah I guess that’s what I’m saying and it’s tough you know naturally I want to go and say you know fish is a scam right all this stuff is a scam and you can get really into the nitty-gritty of wine and um you know different countries are going to have different rules but you know is it a scam that you’re you know Napa Valley chardonnay can have 24.9 fruit from Fresno in it from a different vintage and you know it still costs you eighty four dollars or something you know it’s is that the scam I mean that’s just written down and people can access that information can I just say that okay I only read wine bottles number one if they look pretty number two if I want to know the tasting notes but the tasting notes okay honestly is like the World’s Gonna collapse if I have like shrimp scampi with a glass of red wine like probably no no probably like not at all and like yeah food and wine pairings are that’s arguably a big scam too I mean yeah you know how many sips of wine are you actually gonna have with your scampi I mean how many shrimps are in there yeah you know you’re probably gonna have three or four sips and maybe you’re gonna have something else on the table that that does go with red wine but also do you like red wine you know drink the red wine do you like it cold drink it cold you know do what makes you happy but what about those like wine hardos that are like it needs to be at this temperature you need to store it this way and like all of those details yeah is that a scam a little scam artist John no I’m being serious because I I don’t think I maybe I’m just like my palette isn’t refined enough but like if I have a ten dollar wine from Trader Joe’s or if I have like a 45 wine from God knows where am I going like does it really matter does it matter yeah it’s not life or death it doesn’t it doesn’t really matter but I mean there are certain things that you know like food storage right like you avoid spoilage at a certain temperature you know if you store your red wine in the trunk of your car like I think my brother has uh there’s a Prosecco in my car right now I’ve stored raw chicken and yogurt in the trunk of my car red wine is the least of your words because I’ll go shopping and I’ll keep this stuff here and then I’ll go to the gym after work for like two I’m not home for another two and a half hours that chicken and yogurt’s been sweating in my trunk I have definitely lost bottles of wine too is it just overheating or like yeah it speeds up the aging process it it literally Cooks it right so you are you are kind of destroying the product at that point or you’re just kind of you know aging it maybe you like it better that way but you know the cork can dry out if you don’t store it on its side for long enough and then oxygen gets in but I mean beyond that like no you don’t need a seller temp you know Pinot Noir if you like it you know pretty hot or ice cold I gotta I got a couple I haven’t spoken in eight seconds I have a couple things to say so who won speaking to the scam nature of wine I have definitely had bottles that have either been corked or tainted by the heat but I at least have enough of a palette to know when a Wine’s tainted right when it’s not right when you when it smells like pure paint thinner is that a good like uh reasoning to not drink it well no I mean if it smells like paint thinner to me that’s kind of like it tastes super just kind of acrid right on the palette yeah like to me that signifies with the wines like something’s gone wrong here I’ve served you a wine like that uh and I think maybe you still kind of liked it maybe you were just humoring me but it depends man there’s there’s a lot of people that’ll immediately turn their noses up to that you know wine judges would be like faulty doesn’t even get a score something like that but you know you get some wines out of what North Eastern Italy I got to think of like directions in my head near near the Slovenian border and like they’re aged oxidatively on skins for so long and it’s like you know it’s it’s its own thing you know if they do it intentionally then maybe that’s where the line is that it’s you can drink that and enjoy it but if you don’t enjoy it then don’t drink it that’s what makes this such an incredible scam it reminds like the way that he’s talking to us I feel like is the way that we normally talk to the audience on the podcast when someone’s like obviously an uncrustable is not a ravioli and they’re like Well if you really look to the Emilia Romania region you’ll see that several of the ravioli does or is there there they call it uh pasta de anielo twiti and there they’ll add somewhat of a sodium bicarbonate you know what I mean if you can scramble people’s brains to be like well actually that paint thinner taste that makes you want to vomit is just the oxidative quality of the Slovenian aging method you know well okay so where I was going with that was I definitely had bottles that at least to me I taste them were like this tastes like butthole this is Tainted however I was like cooking for some friends and I know they don’t know enough about wine and I’m like screw it this is all I have I’m not gonna run to the BevMo I’ma pour it and then you know I drink and go man that’s some good wine and they go oh yeah this wine is good and I’m like whew powers suggestion you know people want to be included into some sort of a club and to me that is the root of a lot of wine right you want to be seen as a certain type of person you want to be seen as cultured as erudite as important as someone having good taste and that is what gets a lot of people to either create some sort of identity around wine to then you know be able to drink some paint thinner and say that you know wow this is delicious and I’m cultured because of it yeah and that’s and that’s what separates you know maybe wine being a scam from things like fish or you know maybe Art’s the closest thing but like I don’t know fine dining or nine dollar loaves of sourdough bread that I also enjoy you know yeah there’s not bread and fish tourism per se there’s not fish tasting rooms there’s not all this stuff you don’t buy fish and store it just to never drink it and maybe sell it online at a later date or sell a seller at auction so yeah wine is is definitely a unique scam in that sense you know in that it’s both a you know on one hand it’s a grocery item yeah and on the other hand it’s it’s like a piece of Fine Art yeah and it’s funny because you know like a piece of Fine Art you can get a a postcard of the Mona Lisa for two dollars or you can you know um buy the real thing for I assume you probably just can’t buy it you get Heist it you Thomas Crown a ferret you uh like Catherine Zeta Jones do the little entrapment thing to steal yeah that was a great scene I love that I’m saying there’s such incredible levels to something like fine art or wine or wine there are bottles that I assume cost hundreds of thousands of dollars right one of the ones they dug up from like the Titanic you know that didn’t belong to Thomas Jefferson yeah yeah that one was that a real thing yeah there was a big uh maybe still ongoing lawsuit from one of the is it Coke coach Brothers you know the big political donors he he one of them had um I don’t know the difference between them one of them had had bought uh one or a few bottles that allegedly belonged to Thomas Jefferson and there’s all these provenance things and the sellers don’t remember who they bought it from and when but yeah no that’s I mean that’s probably a scam wait do you drink it do you drink the 300 year old wine that’s the thing you never drink it you can’t you can’t test it there’s there’s not like oh we have this verified 300 year old bottle of wine or however many years it’s been yeah even if you did drink it probably get a little drunk yeah but like would you get like super drunk like like a toad Venom situation so what toad Venom yeah you know you take the toad Venom you go to kill jelly you lick the toad you’ve never heard that that was like a thing I’m a sheltered when we grew up I assume we all took the same California curriculum of drug education classes where we were led to believe that a lot of people would come up to us and say I have barbiturates do you want to barbituate no thank you they taught us about toad Venom they were like if anyone tells you to lick a toad don’t do it because that’s got a hallucinogenic and then you’re gonna become a Democrat yeah that welcome to Orange County public school education I never heard of licking the toad the only thing that reminds me of is Futurama how like there’s a toad on the TV yeah yeah I think that’s probably referential too okay yeah but anyways back to back to Thomas Jefferson wine and wine in general being a scam um you mentioned you know drink what makes you happy drink what tastes good and that seems to be like the dominant discourse right where now people are saying like wine is something meant to be enjoyed you don’t need to spend 100 plus dollars on it whatever but ultimately right this is Commerce they’re trying to get you to buy things you know and is that do you think that the change in tone between like wine is an elite Thing versus wine is a populist thing is just trying to get people to buy more wine because it seems like like it’s working it might be um you know I don’t know if it’s trying to get you know market share from non-wine drinkers or trying to get wine drinkers to try different things so that’s I don’t know if it’s the industry trying to cannibalize itself or not I mean you know I guess one of my my other wine things that I did the the direct consumer wine sales really the biggest piece of value in research that I came across from somebody else was that there’s High involvement and low involvement you know wine drinkers now they’re all wine drinkers right they’re all involved but it kind of put them into two groups of people who always drink the same thing and then people who you know for whom there’s never enough there’s always you know you need to try something else something else something else and it’s naturally people want to Market towards the the people that are high involvement but it’s the low involvement ones right that’ll be loyal to your brand and never leave you interesting because when we when we think about like wine drinkers we tend to think about wine stops we like turn them into a caricature right did either of y’all Watch Frasier no I never watched Frazier do you never watched Frasier no there is this like I mean Frasier obviously has it’s like a mid 90s classic shout out to Andrew Ray from binging with Fabish because that dude has the Seattle skyline creature tattooed on his own body um but there is this caricature of a food critic and he is like it shows what people thought of food and wine people in the 90s right and he’s like very flamboyant he’s always dressed in a bow tie and he speaks the very a very Posh Mid-Atlantic accent oh you must try the Chardonnay and the oysters over at loxitan or whatever and that’s like how he talks uh but I feel like you know that is is sort of going out of style and people now when you think of a Wine Drinker it’s probably you know your average it’s a hipster with orange wine well no I was gonna say the opposite like because I think the Hipster with an orange wine phenomenon which we can talk about that next um is is very like kind of small compared to the 34 year old trying to take the edge off of the bottle of Chardonnay interesting right is that is that who’s like really driving the white because the top wine buyer in the world is Costco right right Costco is the most important commercial player in the wine industry uh and I I’d never buy a wine there I buy big screen TVs and then I return them at the end of the year to get all my money back and rotisserie chickens that’s what I do Kirkland Kirkland uh Kirkland Vodka yeah same yeah same as Gray Goose that’s literally uh but yeah I mean is that who’s like driving the industries is it just the person buying a bottle of Chardonnay to you know stop their kids from screaming they’re not feeding their kids wine that was a weird thing to say yeah I don’t know those stats but I mean you know having worked for a company that that made you know bottom shelf mid shelf and top shelf it was the bottom shelf that was driving all of the financial decisions it wasn’t driving the the you know the Greater brand image and what a lot of us you know thought we were working for but that’s that’s what people were buying you know so I don’t actually know if Costco is the biggest wine buyer in in the world they they might be up there I mean I remember in Australia the first or second biggest was Qantas Airlines oh and we always kind of had to keep that in mind like think about how how often they’re flying and how much wine they’re serving and selling people wine based off of you know Airline mile points but yeah I I really have to think that you know that is what’s is actually driving the industry not not this small little you know world that I live in that gets a little bit insular where you forget what people actually buy and drink when they’re not you know out eating oysters at luxi 10. what is lexicon don’t they sound like hey man that’s a soapster that smells like lavender but I didn’t want to like you know screw with your grooves you know what’s funny is I I’ve just I’ve like seen that soap store at some fancy West View malls or Westfield malls and I’m like I want to go drink wine and all that soap their few better foods to eat during the summer than a nice juicy grilled piece of 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delicious 100 grass-fed beef free range organic chicken pork raised crate free and wild caught Seafood so get Summer sizzling started with special butcher box deal for our listeners free bacon for the life of your membership plus ten dollars off holy smoke sign up today at butcherbox.com hotdog and use code hotdog to get one pack of free bacon in every box for the life of your membership plus ten dollars off your first order that’s butcherbox.com hotdog and use code hot dog to claim this deal [Music] speaking of bottom shelf wine uh I know what you’re gonna say well I don’t know if you do because I feel like you’re a Two Buck Chuck gal I was just about to say I love two bugs I’ve never been a Two Buck Chuck uh gal because uh to me it’s not a communal enough experience I get the big old jug of Carla Rossi sweet red oh I see and then I mix Vodka and fruit juice with it and then I call it sangria uh but I mean if you were like you with the palette that you have with the wine industry knowledge that you have like could you just sit down and drink some Charles Shaw Merlin for people who don’t know what Two Buck Chuck is uh Charles Shaw is the brand I’m sure John you know way more about it than I do probably not um but but they are uh they’re sold at primarily Trader Joe’s they used to be a dollar ninety nine per bottle giving it the name Two Buck Chuck and then they raised the price to 249 and then 299 and then like Costco rotisserie chickens they they just people rioted and they had to drop the price down to 1.99 like one is that stuff just tastes like poison to you and is that also like ruining the environment environment if I can take a half a step back as somebody who was previously a management accountant for a big Wine Company I don’t know how the heck they do it just knowing what corks cost what glass costs what’s the transportation costs what labels cost not to mention whatever goes into it and their overheads a bottle of water costs two dollars from a gas station exactly I really don’t know how they do it is it bad for the environment I don’t know they use really really lightweight glass I don’t know about their farming practices I assume they’re probably not the most friendly but at least you know you know they cut down on a lot of their like transport costs but I’m sure reducing the glass weight that’s a big part of like wastage in the wine industry could I enjoy it no I’d probably like mix it with a Diet Coke and enjoy that oh that is nice oh don’t they do that in Spain Argentina too nice yeah yeah I think Spain maybe more so like red wine and squirt like a grapefruit soda maybe both it’s delightful really no I can’t imagine well I’m a huge one of my favorite drinks in the world is the uh fernet Coca from from Argentina you’re supposed to cut and you cut a coke bottle in half and then you just fill it with ice for net and Coca-Cola what do you mean you cut it you like you cut a bottle yeah you cut the bottle like you’re physically supposed to drink it out of the cut open bottle that’s how they do it we’re talking about a plastic bottle right yeah yeah you’re not like using like a Microsoft or something like a plasma cutter like a little bottle how thirsty are you how much how much that adult Jager can you suck down wait okay and then use like a like a bread knife to cut it I’m just trying to initialize it right now I Precision someone criticized me from Argentina for not drinking it out of a cut up Coke bottle yeah okay okay I get it all right but anyway so so down to the actual idea of wine tasting notes I think that’s where a lot of people get tripped up including myself I think I have a pretty solid palette but like I will taste wine and I’m I’m always just like ah melon skin grapefruit rubber hose mom used to beat me with rubber hose um but like I mean how real are those because I mean I’ve watched the documentary Psalm about the master psalmie test and it is too it looks incredibly cool oh really yeah you watch really colors we had like a wine portion at school interesting and I was like yeah I was so into it and then I was like no I don’t really care anymore it’s impressed it’s freaking impressive to watch at least on the surface not knowing much you know else about it I mean they will take a bottle of wine and they have like six tasting notes they have to hit and they’re blind tasting this wine and they have to get them exactly on the nose but I mean is that like a standardized testing where it like tests more your ability to take a test as opposed to actually knowledge yeah yeah it’s it’s deduction blind tasting they have a grid they go through and you know you’re not tasting out of like a black glass you can see it right so automatically you can deduce like what’s the color concentration right is this deep red is it a rock Haber name or low or is it a light red like maybe a Pinot Noir a nebiolo a Grenache something like that so right away visually you can you can kind of narrow it down a lot um but actually so I listen to the the psalm TV podcast and I was listening to One yesterday and it was it was about bs in the wine industry and he was telling a story and he’s like this might be weird coming from me as as the guy who is the reason that people say fresh cut garden hose and and new new tennis ball I’m like a new tennis ball that’s Australian wrestling that’s that’s legit I know that but um that’s wild but he was telling the story about you know they they kept calling all of these I think he said burgundy maybe it was Northern Rhone um they kept saying this is oh crushed violets fresh violets dried violets so he goes to a to a nursery and he tries to buy these violets and he’s telling the person they’re like oh I need you know to know what these smell like and and she you know gave him this weird look and brought him violets and said what do they smell like he said they’re they’re odorless she’s like that’s correct violets are odorless yeah and so I started thinking like ah crap I’ve I’ve done that before like I’ve smelled a Saran I’m like oh purple flowers violets whatever well the flower itself is odorless but you could extract an oil that has a set no because I’ve tried like I love perfume the way that you love Nicole what if I told you perfume is also a scam no no no no no I’m a perfume collector our podcast is a scam I smelled I smelled perfumes that are that are Violet heavy so when you say that I’m like are you sure because like my soul is being crushed right now because I have Violet perfumes and I’m like no I think I know what Violet smells like but like who knows because the actual flower is odorless and I guess maybe my takeaway is like I propagated that because I heard somebody else say it and then somehow it embedded itself and I’m like Sarah purple flowers Violet’s a purple flower right um but a lot of these tasting notes they get they get so far out there right and they kind of like lose their connection yeah um but there’s there’s certain things that like you know on on deduction right it doesn’t have to be tasting notes but you can kind of categorize you know red fruits taste different than black fruits right cherries and raspberries are different than you know blueberries and blackberries and stuff like that you know there’s citrus fruits taste different from Orchard fruits from tropical fruits and so kind of you try to put it in in those sort of boxes but then you know viscosity is a big thing you know body is a real thing and wine you know is it you know water like is it skim milk-like is it you know whole milk like as far as it’s viscosity so certain things are legit but then you really get way way way out there as far as some tasting notes like like fresh cut garden hose like maybe that just means kind of plasticky which is something yeah which some rieslings like they definitely smell like you know science wise Syrah smells like black pepper because of rotunden um Cabernet Franc and sauvignon blanc and some other ones in that family they’ll smell like green bell pepper or jalapeno because of methoxyperazines like it’s the same flavor it’s red right awesome thank you so much I told you I’m a good fake wine expert but you know there are certain things you know like that chemically that that do carry through but then you know a lot of it is kind of you know up to the artist right yeah and I I think that’s a good point about wine is that it’s so much about storytelling yeah right like if you were to get one of these bottles it smells like fresh cut garden hose or whatever and in a vacuum if you just smelled it you’re like smells like a Ziploc bag you know Fresh Garden knows that inspires open can of tennis balls uh it inspires a certain emotion that people may have a connection to right literally the idea of fresh cut garden hose to me and this is maybe looking way too deep along with open can of tennis balls implies to me that one you have a yard which means that you’re probably well off right yeah so these are references that literally rich people can understand I never had a yard I never really I never I’ve never smelled fresh cut Garden those because one dude do you have to cut garden hoses I don’t know enough about lawn maintenance guy live in a damn City and I don’t have a ton of money yeah like I know like when you open the can of like the tennis balls like it does yeah and I don’t know why but like I can imagine that smell only because like I’m been to tennis club before like who goes to tennis courts these on average people these are literally storytelling devices to get rich people to spend the money by inspiring a certain emotion and like it’s this similar thing with the Fine Art world right you know the quickest way to up the value of a painting murder the artist then you get a story that’s it truly an artist dies a horrific death and suddenly their work is worth so much more it’s because it’s all about storytelling and marketing in PR uh which is why I am inclined to call it a scam however we work in a scam industry how much money have you spent on fine dining a stupid amount a stupid amount so much of that stuff they’re just lying to you about but they’re not that fish is not wild line caught off the Barbary Coast no they’re lying belcampo you follow the belcampo of course and I was hoping my favorite burger this is and I I I love bill gambo every meat I’ve gotten there is delicious and I was scammed what they were doing is they were taking uh Meats from rocker Brothers Shout out to Burbank and rocker Brothers makes you know a fine meat product but they were taking these commodity meats that are being sold to mid-market restaurants yeah and they were literally just cutting open the packages of meats from industrial farms and then putting them cleaning them up putting them in their case and lying and being like these are grass-fed you know a cow his name was Henry he lived on the Belizean Coast he had a wife and children and a 401k and then they upmarked it for like double yeah I ate that steak and went you can taste the grass so so much of this crap is you know a scam but if you’re putting money into something that increases your joy right that’s the relationship we’re all looking for you pay money the good chemical goes off in your brain that’s the relationship John gets the good chemical from the wine yeah but like some some of that can be distant introducing Behavior right like if it’s if it doesn’t live up to your expectations you’re like I spent 100 bucks on this whether it’s a steak or a bottle of wine like like I better like it yeah so if you find ways to try to release those good chemicals in in your brain to reduce that dissonance yeah do you think that’s just like uh it’s gonna screw up your like long-term relationship with wine in your palette do you see yourself being disillusioned at all oh I mean I added to the list of long-term relationships I’ve I’ve screwed up I don’t know you know we we actually just before recording this we we were talking about you know tattoos right and then I said um you know what if I got a a wine tattoo and then three years from now like I didn’t have the same level of care or involvement with wine and and that’s why I don’t have any tattoos but I don’t know I don’t know what the heck’s gonna happen in in three years yeah that’s fair either people they often ask me about my Spork tattoo and I used to have a whole story and a Spiel and someone that’s genuine yeah it was it was it was about you know uh having both both sides again I’ve just forgotten it’s something about yin and yang but then I realized that I shouldn’t be saying that as a white guy it’s like a universal like tool I think it’s about a fork and a spoon Yeah well yeah but you know you need to have both the fork and the spoon it’s important to have both the high and the low you know I was working at a place at this time and then it meant so much and I just forgot I just like forgot what I used to say and so now people ask me and I’m just like they give it to you at the Taco Bell potatoes and this is Spork and I know why I actually got it it’s because you know I wanted to make myself seem deliberately interesting to try and scam people into giving me cool jobs like hosting a podcast like we literally we this is the best investment best scam investment ever because people thought that was so interesting to his tattoo right now guys people thought the spork tattoo was so interesting that we launched an entire spin-off brand from a Legacy Media brand with the spork as the logo this is a scam we’re all scammers in our own way it’s a scam because you’re just fooling people to believe in you well it’s not a scam name one thing we need to talk about my thought of the uh the Hipster orange wine person why is that the archetype for a wine snob nowadays I think it’s it’s it’s confirmation bias partly from like the world you you operate in what’s orange wine I know this one can I say it please okay so it’s white wine and then you put the skins in it and then it hangs out with the skins and then you take it out and then it’s like funky can we get a judgment from John yeah yeah pretty much I mean I mean I take issue I take issue with the funky thing really because every single orange one I’ve had has like a designated Funk it can I mean so basically it’s a white wine made like a red so all like the inside of nearly every grape is is white flesh and white juice red wine gets its color from sitting on the skin so if you do that with white depending on how ripe the grape is the Skins can be anywhere from green to Yellow to Gold to Brown to Pink and it makes you know you call it an Amber or an orange wine but you know you wouldn’t describe a red wine made the same way as funky but sometimes people try to you know fit it into you know the natural or Natty wine category and I think that’s what I’m doing I think I’m equating orange wine with natural I have a question what’s natural I mean honestly because I I couldn’t tell you a definition it’s it’s tough and nobody can um yeah oh great it’s definitely not a scam yeah no that’s every every clickbait article in wine right now is what is natural wine um I think a lot of people agree on it has to be at least organic or maybe biodynamic farming biodynamics kind of Witchcraft but I think it works because what is you put goats near the grapes so the goats poop into the grape soil yeah they bury a horn filled with poop and then the grapes go to Montessori School correct me if I’m wrong but they’re all based off Rudolph Randolph Rudolph Steiner’s uh teachings anyway it follows a lunar calendar okay what is it actually yeah it does it does wow and your wine can taste different on Flower Days versus fruit days versus root days and I I don’t I don’t know anyway it’s witchcraft but kind of makes some some good wine because people pay attention to their Vineyards but natural wine you know it starts there you’re supposed to be pretty hands off um it it’s it’s man I don’t know it’s it’s too much Natty Natty wine right if and this is like the Natty light The Natty light variety of wine exactly no no so Natty wine is kind of maybe more a style right where natural wine is kind of like the big umbrella right there’s there’s wine makers that work in a natural fashion that would never want to be called Natty or natural but then there’s also people kind of like shoehorning stuff in that’s not you know biodynamic or or organic or sulfur free or anything and just making it in a Natty style because people like to drink it right it’s maybe a little intentionally oxidative or or unfiltered or not yeah exactly and by the way wine clarifies itself you just let it sit and the sediment will fall to the bottom and you rack it off the top so you know I mean it’s an intentional thing to leave it like that and it ages differently in the bottle when it’s in contact with its with its solids and its sediment so you know it’s kind of whatever you like but why is that the archetype of of hipster right now um I don’t know Molly boss she’s drinking orange wines out there she’s a taste maker and I want to go drink them every hipster I’ve ever hung out with do you guys have natural orange ones every single time I’m just like I ages will drink whatever’s made with real oranges I’ll just drink whatever’s in front of me like I’ve never been like picky with my wine choices except when people ask me my favorite white wine I never say like like a Riesling or anything say shenan Blanc I’ve only had Shannon block like six days in my life okay so that’s not gonna lie that I think this is a perfect place to wrap up one I think what we’ve all kind of decided is wine is a scam insofar as like most things are scams that you pay money for fine dining uh the Fine Art World a jewelry is another one right if It ultimately brings you Joy and you’re not doing anything inherently destructive then like you know so be it you do you there are certainly some like you know problematic elements to it there’s that one natural wine brand that was like using slave labor you remember that yeah not naming and shaming but they’re from Southern Italy and I think their dad or their Uncle kind of yep yeah I don’t buy those anymore but no I know but they’re still on the bottom so anyways but that said what is some actual practical advice and Nicole I’m I’m curious to keep hearing about like what your advice is to like ordering wine or buying wine so people think you’re cool and you get something you enjoy like what do you do um I read this book called Wine Folly for like all of like seven minutes and I just skimmed it and then I was like hmm I like passion fruit so I’m gonna get a wine that uh has passion fruit in it or like I don’t like tart cherry so I’m gonna try to sear it like away from tart cherry wine so I just kind of just do a little bit of res I just enjoyed the research aspect of it a little bit so before I go anywhere I just kind of I just kind of go with the flow and then I ask the server like hey does this taste like this hey does this taste similar to this and I don’t know if that works but like don’t be afraid to ask questions to seem stupid but chances are the waiters might not know that much either I’m not gonna lie yeah they probably don’t know either so I don’t know just uh go into it with a positive attitude and just enjoy your glass of wine regardless of what it is I don’t know my my advice is to have Daddy Warbucks older brother who will feed you enough wine and you just kind of inception enough wine names in your head that you go like you got a cab Franc uh you know to drink um but that said my other advice uh lie be confident just fake it till you make it even if you want to seem confident in something look at something be like oh my God this this this Pinot right here uh I read an article about it on wine spectator this is the best Pino that’s ever lived I’m gonna drink that and then even if it tastes like crap you just you just go and grit your teeth and go wow this is incredible and I’m very smart so that’s my advice is lie okay and having been on the other side of the table for three illustrious weeks I guess I work behind a counter selling selling wine to folks for for a year or two but you know I got really good advice uh from a friend and Mentor Brad hickey down in Mclaren Vale who was a Michelin star maybe two Michelin star New York song before he you know just pissed off to Australia um but he said you know people have these little devices in their pockets today where they can find any piece of information you know known to man if you don’t know say you don’t know right so you know give it a quick Google you know I guess my advice for for people in wine is try not to feel pressure to know everything you know there really is that dunning-kruger effect in wine where you start to know a little bit and you think you know it all and then you know you open a book you Google something and you realize you don’t you don’t know anything and there’s too much to know right so just you know you don’t have to fake it if if you want to fake it fake it but like you know ask some questions try not to be pressured by price if you’re after you know a 40 bottle of wine in a restaurant don’t be pressured into an 80 one you know get a little drunk it’ll be okay or just uh carry a bunch of natural light peach hard seltzers in your purse because those are finer than anyone [Music] foreign Hyundai is thinking of every mile that’s where the new 2023 Hyundai Palisade comes in the Palisade offers all the technology safety features and comfort of family needs for the journey ahead and boy does it really have so many Tech safety and comfort features stay connected with the Palisades Wi-Fi hotspot capabilities so you can keep the kids entertained on a long car ride or help a friend work on the go if you want to start that weekend trip early and if you’ve ever been clipped or had a mishap where you opened the door into a vehicle behind you the class exclusive safe exit assist the Hyundai Palisade has is a lifesaver it prevents the rear doors from opening if the vehicle detects traffic approaching from behind the Palisade also has available third row heated power folding seats which is perfect for people who run cold and it can fit up to eight passengers comfortably taking this car with this much capacity would be a huge asset on that next group cabin trip you can say that again Nicole it’s your journey learn more at hyundaiusa.com safe exit assist is not a substitute for driver passenger attentiveness always be aware of your surroundings and attentive approaching vehicles [Music] hi Nicole and John we’ve heard what you and I have to say now it’s time to find out what other wacky ideas are rattling out there in the twitterverse it’s time for a segment we call opinions are like casseroles [Music] John didn’t join yeah one more time one more time it’s time for a second we call opinions there it is there it is I did ah reference to someone’s like is that a Howard Dean reference like he ran it deceptively a good campaign every time he ran a good campaign you know nothing about that uh all right first up first politics a scam oh Jesus Christ all right I have sweetie peas truffle is actually kind of icky I think it should stay away John would say you I don’t know try it with barolo oh you son of a [ __ ] I literally I was reading something yesterday not even for this podcast that was talking about how uh Pete Wells actually of the New York Times I believe said that you know wine pairings in generality are a scam and then someone’s like yeah except for truffle and barolo and I was like close except for traveling barolo I know I’ve never had them together I I was at a fancy restaurant I was at Bestia with a celebrity chef who was an actual Ivan Orkin of Orkin Ramen and with Andy Wong from food and wine I know those names both of them yes yes yes uh and I had not started doing any of this I was a very young food writer like 24 years old uh and the you know Chef knew who both both of them were so he started just sending out dishes and wines and the song comes over and goes like this is a very special 95 barolo that we have been saving for someone extra special I would love you to have it but both Ivan and Andy they they’re on like a whole eating tour of La you know throughout the day and they didn’t want to drink any of it and so they’re like you young 260 pound man with a barrel of a stomach drink this whole bottle of 20 year old wine wow and I did and I loved it it was good I I don’t remember what it tastes like you always say you like yeah because I just lie I don’t know barolo is a scam brolo is tannic it’s bitter uh they’re not taste that humans naturally like right we like sweet and immediately gratifying uh anyway uh truffles are a scam truffles are kind of farty they don’t taste like anything without salt um yeah I don’t know it’s probably right I like fake truffle I like give me the fake truffle slathered on a burger made with 70 30 meat yeah I don’t really care for truffle I think it’s black I mean in small increments sometimes well sometimes you’re talking about how humans naturally gravitate towards you know like sweet acidic whatever like that’s just evolutionarily what we’re inclined to do um wine is just uh rich just rotten it’s just rotten yeah it’s like grape juice you know gives you uh nutrition and whatnot and then you let it just rot and it poisoned your body but makes you a little yeah that’s good the whole thing is anti-evolutionary uh okay okay that said every culture has been fermenting stuff to get you drunk every culture figure that out yeah almost like you know I’m sure there’s a handful of the ones that didn’t but like all across the world we figured out that you let food rot and it makes your brain feel all funny and you start dancing better or at least you start dancing and not caring as much it takes the prefrontal cortex offline is that really what I love that yeah listen to another podcast that said that so it’s got to be true because podcasts aren’t scams nope X dead craft X says if you serve mashed potatoes with skin on I will leave and key your dad’s car our dad’s been dead for years so good luck got him high five it was 10 years the other day oh was it really yeah July July 3rd happy anniversary I’m sorry tell us about mashed potatoes the dad though I think there was a Simpsons episode where uh where Marge was scared she was getting replaced and like you know the the Imposter cooked Homer like red skin mashed potatoes with the skin on and Marge like oh let me take him out and he was like no and he Hoards them what was the question I don’t do you mess with skin on mashed potatoes I can’t remember the last time I made mashed potatoes me neither they’re the worst preparation of potato I do not enjoy them are you kidding I will I have never made mashed but I I bought okay this is a real thing I just got I just got back from from 10 days out of town I bought potatoes to make mashed potatoes and I I prepped them right I peeled them I had them sitting in ice water and then I never made them and I came back and they were just rotting soaked potatoes because they didn’t want them I love mashed potatoes I love a nice potato puree without skin but sometimes like a good rustic mashed potato with the skin that Rachel Ray rustic yeah Rachel Ray rustic things because she’s trying to save prep time to get in on 30 minutes I think it’s delicious I actually don’t mind skin on I actually she likes skin on fries too but that’s just me nah skin skin contact mashed potatoes thank you yes are they funky all right we got Anonymous clown face sausage diced tomatoes with chilies cream cheese shredded cheese pasta and spinach do you just paraphrase to BuzzFeed this is a tasty video that you watched this is just the grocery list this is just them uh that sounds great John I don’t know if you got all that it’s not like Denver style hot dog basically yeah yeah with the cream cheese yeah Seattle Dog yeah Seattle Dog pasta and I’m into it what’s the question that was good they just they just listen that happens a lot where they just list ingredients yeah I know I make I make a lot of trash pasta out of the fridge just depending on whatever’s there that’s that sounds like a good trash pasta was there any cheese uh cream cheese and then shredded cheese of indetermined uh origin yeah sure sounds nice maybe add some lemon zest green chilies that sounds nice yeah yeah yeah I’d uh I’d brawl it I’d brawl it I’d brawl it with the shredded cheese on top to get some that crusty brawlage I try to like emulsify some sort of like oil with some starchy water all right and then work the cream cheese into it yeah yeah yeah kind of stretch out the cream yeah yeah exactly yeah yeah that’s smart that’s smart I feel like I’m intruding are you still here I guess um I’m just score dab says soak two figs and three dates overnight reduce the soaking water in morning to a syrup and coat cereal that’s like halfway to an Indian Bell Puri I’ve never had milk Oh you mean Rice Krispies Treats yeah it’s like it’s like Savory Rice Krispies with Chutney what oh it’s so good it literally looks like can you order it what yeah we can we can get the Samosa house Bellport yeah if it’s anywhere it’s that Samosa that’s what’s up all right we got at Matthew three one four one five that’s pie Josh what 3.1415 oh it’s a food joke God dang it their name’s probably pie stupid idiot Josh what tuna salad tuna salad and syrup pancake or Maple you can use John you can use either pancake or maple syrup on your tuna is delicious whatever syrup’s a scam secret business wait they just said hold on pancake or but see in my mind pancake syrup and maple syrup are literally the same they’re legal that’s why it’s a scam they’re illegal distinctions because you cannot call it maple syrup unless it has a certain percentage of actual so maple syrup right you literally just stab a tree in the heart then it leaks out its juices and then you boil down those juices yeah to create maple syrup and that’s pure maple syrup um however all the like you know Log Cabin Mrs Butterworth stuff like that that is pancake syrup that can’t legally use the term Maple log cabin is it maple syrup they they may have a premium brand that does it but no it’s it’s artificial maple extract which is corn syrup do you remember we made that for an episode yeah we did it was like the Taco Bell waffle taco and I prefer pancake syrup to Maple give me the fake stuff on Tuna Hard pass yeah what why I don’t know I’m trying to think we grew up eating do you remember salmon rissels they’re salmon croquettes um that you would take uh South African foods they’re they’re Commonwealth sort of things like I remember like moving to Australia and we had sort of like an end of term uh like barbecue sort of thing and somebody brought out these just like they weren’t salmon either they were chicken wristles uh but they were called rissels and I was like oh my god dad wasn’t just you know rambling and making stuff up it was it was our Commonwealth born mother um but no they they had them and they just put them on on a base like you know flat top Plancha sort of thing and and cooked them up but we used to have canned salmon right like they make canned tuna whatever mixed with egg and bread crumbs and bread crumbs on the outside and then just kind of shallow fried and it’s it’s like a crab cake but salmon it’s a delight and then sometimes there’s some some some bones still in the canned salmon they get a little Crunchies yeah yeah that’s pretty good you put maple syrup on it no but we would dip it in fancy sauce in Special Sauce which is an equal parts ketchup and mayonnaise I’m thinking like the sweet the fish this could work these days what you just put you know some sriracha and and pancake syrup in it and call it Gourmet yeah I paid 16 bucks for that I can’t you get three of them for a table of four more people and you go ah just tell me what if it was koopy Mayo no there’s no justification for putting maple syrup or pancake syrup on tuna salad I’m sorry okay B leek says meatloaf should be cooked with ketchup on top I never had meatloaf growing up so sure yeah sure there’s plenty of sugar in it it gets all glazy and delicious you know that’s like saying cheese steak should have cheese on them I’ve only had meatloaf once the point of Meatloaf is the ketchup it’s like saying a sandwich should have bread it’s like saying uh anyway orange wine should have a determined Funk it’s a giant Kuby day for white people no I figured does that translate does that make sense yes is Meatloaf kubi day is kubi Day cake is wine soup is wine tea find out next time on a hot dog it’s a sandwich oh I have a I have a headache that hurt that hurt me John where can the people find you what do you got going on you got any like home rental plans you want to talk about a bathroom we finish those up uh last year yeah I have cute dog in there that’s enjoying the the renovations I have an Instagram page that nobody really cares about it’s kind of things I I cook and drink I’m I’m at couch wine that’s at couch wine couch one I do have a day job I probably need to get back to I was only given the time off because my manager made me promise to plug uh central Pennsylvania Wine regions as up and coming um nice okay so they might be cool we’re about to spike the wine industry and let Harrisburg and Lancaster County yeah obviously people are there give wine to the Amish that’s John’s official plug no thank you guys so much for having me uh you know I listen to this every week and and it’s exciting and and terrifying to be on here I hope this never airs and on that note thank you for listening to a hot dog is a sandwich if you want to hear more from us here in the mythical kitchen we got new episodes for you every Wednesday if you want to be featured on opinions or like casseroles you can hit us up on Twitter at mythical Chef or and handy Zada with the hashtag opinion casserole for more mythical kitchen check us out on YouTube where we launch new videos every week and of course if you want to share pictures of your dishes hit us up at Instagram at mythical kitchen we’ll see you next time hit up at couch wine which I think you and John talk on Instagram yeah that’s nice [Music] when it comes to your journey Hyundai is thinking of every mile that’s where the new 2023 Hyundai Palisade comes in the Palisade offers all the technology safety features and comfort of family needs for the journey ahead and boy does it really have so many Tech safety and comfort features stay connected with the Palisades Wi-Fi hotspot capabilities so you can keep the kids entertained on a long car ride or help a friend work on the go if you want to start that weekend trip early and if you’ve ever been clipped or had a mishap where you opened the door into a vehicle behind you the class exclusive safe exit assist the Hyundai Palisade has is a lifesaver it prevents the rear doors from opening if the vehicle detects traffic approaching from behind the Palisade also has available third row heated power folding seats which is perfect for people who run cold and it can fit up to eight passengers comfortably taking this car with this much capacity would be a huge asset on that next group Cabinetry you can say that again Nicole it’s your journey learn more at hyundaiusa.com safe exit assist is not a substitute for driver passenger attentiveness always be aware of your surroundings and attentive of approaching Vehicles if of approaching Vehicles if of approaching Vehicles if